John Watkins  is Co-Director with Jal Mehta & Alisa Berger, of the Deeper Learning Dozen, creating a community of practice for superintendents who are committed to the transformation of their districts. He has over thirty years experience in consulting, coaching, designing, facilitating, researching, and evaluating in school and school district improvement efforts. Jessica Forbes is a teacher at Oakland High School in the Public Health Academy, one of Oakland's oldest and most diverse comprehensive high schools. The two together bring an amazing perspective on the education system from the classroom to the highest levels of district administration. Highlights from their conversation include: what it was like re-acclimating to classroom teaching during the pandemic; how COVID continues to magnify issues that already existed in our school systems and how this moment should be used to really tackle those realities head on; why we should emphasize play and being a little "messy" in the classroom; how to better center students in the learning experience; what is needed from a district level to allow teachers the flexibility to be innovative and break from institutionalized curriculums; how to find inspiration when faced with self-doubt; a wonderful introspective on racial identity; and the valuable lessons that can be learned from a long, taxing hike! 

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? 

Email us at  [email protected] or Tweet us at @jal_mehta and @Rodroad219

To celebrate the podcast reaching 10,000 downloads this week, we turned most of the interview topics over to our listeners — choosing questions they submitted leading up to the recording. Also, producer Gino Beniamino joins the episode as a guest host, and picks his favorite audience submissions along with a few of his own. The conversation covers a wide range of topics including: the origin of Rod and Jal's relationship and who had the idea for a podcast; how becoming parents changed their perspectives but ultimately enhanced their careers in the education field; why "going back to normal" after COVID could be a huge missed opportunity; thoughts on how to create learning symmetry in schools; the importance of encouraging both students and the adults around them to stay curious; a brief response to the recent trend of education politicization; and a rapid-fire twist on the lighting round.

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? Email us at  [email protected] or Tweet us at @jal_mehta and @Rodroad219

Many thanks to all of our listeners for helping us reach this 10K milestone!  

Shelley Moore is a Canadian educator and an expert on special education. A teacher and researcher, she advocates for inclusive education and seeks to reform Individualized Education Programs to better suit the needs of individual students. Her energetic conversation with Rod and Jal includes: pointing out the differences between integration and inclusion; the importance of co-constructing community in schools and creating a sense of belonging for everyone; the dangers of designing for "the average;" how it is actually less work to start from scratch and build for inclusivity as opposed to trying to retrofit existing curriculum; getting back to the why - developing lessons around common goals instead of specific activities; lessons that can be learned from sports teams; a great chemistry classroom analogy and subsequent debate over whether the world is organized; and both Rod and Shelley attempt to help Jal solve a "family dilemma." 

Additional Resources:

fivemooreminutes.com

Questions? Thoughts? Feedback? Email us at  [email protected] or Tweet us at @jal_mehta and @Rodroad219

Jody Hoffer Gittell is Professor of Management at Brandeis University's Heller School for Social Policy & Management, and co-founder and board member of the Relational Coordination Collaborative. She is an expert in the human and humane approach to building organizations.

Highlights from the conversation include: what it means to build a relational organization and culture; emphasizing internal conversation as a better form of accountability; having a broader set of measures when  assessing both individual and whole community performance;  leveraging numbers and data to promote a  feedback loop of learning, coaching and teaching as opposed to just punitive judgement; how to navigate power structures and politics while also recognizing the interdependence within an organization; building mutual relationships with external stakeholders; and Rod's golden rule of simply treating everyone  like human beings! 

Marshall Ganz is the Rita E. Hauser Senior Lecturer in Leadership, Organizing and Civil Society at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. He teaches, researches, and writes on leadership, narrative, strategy and organization in social movements, civic associations, and politics. His conversation with Rod and Jal covers a number of topics including: the diversity and promise of today's young students; how teaching needs to go beyond just skill building to include a conceptual dimension of practice; the importance of defined and shared values when organizing around a cause; the difficult balancing act of an improvement agenda versus a transformative agenda; an emphasis on "heart, head, hands" when considering the why, how, and skills needed to make a change or define a new pedagogy;  and avoiding the trap of probability, focusing instead on possibility and hope. 

Gregg is the founder and co-chair of Remake Learning, a 15-year endeavor to build a learning ecosystem in southwestern Pennsylvania and northern West Virginia. Remake Learning is a network that ignites engaging, relevant, and equitable learning practices in support of young people navigating rapid social and technological change. He is also executive director of the Grable Foundation, managing a grant-making portfolio advancing high-quality early learning, great teaching in public schools, and robust out-of-school-time support. His conversation with Rod and Jal covers many topics including: an in-depth look at the concept of Remake Learning; how we define what great learning looks like; the power and beautiful chaos of networks; how learning should be human-centered and involve everyone in the ecosystem, not just students; the influence of Mr. Rogers as a learning scientist who was ahead of his time, although Jal may disagree; and what it might look like if we attempted to create individualized learning plans for all students. 

Additional Resources:

remakelearning.org

whenyouwonder.org

Dr. Kimberly Schonert-Reichl is the NoVo Foundation Endowed Chair in Social and Emotional Learning and Professor in the Department of Psychology at the University of Illinois at Chicago. There has been a push to maintain in-person learning during the pandemic, and that has come with several new challenges - one of the biggest being how to handle the mental health impact being felt by everyone in school systems. Kimberley has done extensive research on this subject and highlights from her conversation with Rod and Jal include: why we are seeing more kids acting out in schools; an emphasis on supporting the mental health of teachers and administrators in addition to the children; where social-emotional learning (SEL) fits within school curriculums; how stress levels transfer between teachers and students; why schools should focus more on developing better citizens of tomorrow instead of just academic outcomes; and a little wisdom gleaned from the Dalai Lama.

Dr. Jeff Duncan-Andrade is Associate Professor of Raza Studies and Education at San Francisco State University. He is also founder of the Roses in Concrete Community School, a community responsive lab school in East Oakland. His conversation with Rod and Jal covers many areas including: how schools should be leveraging the pandemic to re-invent themselves; the value of creating a space for failure;  emphasizing the difference between educating and schooling; the incredibly full plate and difficult balancing act teachers face every day; how we need to stop "ducking, dodging, and denying" when it comes to the, at times, rotten history and foundation of public schools; and some powerful analogies that will have you re-thinking what it means to teach. 

Additional Resources:

www.rosesinconcrete.org

Our first episode of the new year features two parts: an opening conversation between Rod and Jal addressing the latest COVID surge and what it means for education systems, and a one-on-one conversation between Jal and his mother, Louise Mehta, as they connected during the holidays. 

Louise Mehta has been a teacher, administrator, and Associate Head of the Park School in Baltimore, Maryland, and most importantly, Jal's mother. Highlights from their conversation include: those who inspired and transformed Louise's perspectives on education; what Louise has learned over 30 years about how to support teachers and their growth; the role of students in hiring and whether too much student agency can be a bad thing; what policy changes we would need to professionalize teaching; why Harvard should train more teachers and fewer leaders; whether Jal's Mom thinks he can teach at an ed school without having been a classroom teacher;  and exploring whether Louise is truly a "free range human."  

Louise's conversation begins at 18:28 following Rod and Jal's intro segment. 

Judy Halbert and Linda Kaser have the privilege of leading the Networks of Inquiry and Indigenous Education and the Aboriginal Enhancement Schools Network. They are deeply committed to achieving equity and quality for all learners—and to networking for innovation and improvement both in Canada and internationally. Their conversation with Rod and Jal covers several topics including: an opening discussion on the intersection of critical race theory (CRT), politics and education; humorous acronyms; how Canadian education frameworks could be helpful in the United States; why Judy and Linda are "famous for networks;" how to identify and then spread pockets of greatness throughout all schools; and the importance of strong and equitable assessment tools.

Additional Resources:

www.deeperlearningdozen.org

The Spiral Playbook

System Transformation for Equity and Quality

Leadership Mindsets: Innovation and Learning in the Transformation of Schools