From A to B

CROs are infallible. We believe data! We trust science over opinions! We are LITERALLY never wrong, right?

Well, sometimes we may be right, but we can still be rude about it. 🫣 And no one wants to work with that one guy who, while they may be right, has to let everyone know how right they are EVERY. DAMN. TIME.

I enlisted the help of Michael Aagaard, nicknamed "Shrek" (for very good reasons...) to explore how it is that some #CROs may actually be problematic. And how their own behavior may actually be the reason why CRO and experimentation isn't being adopted or used in an organization.

We got into:

- Messaging and tone matters. You may be right, but HOW you say it may be the difference between "let's run that test" and "I fucking hate that idea"

- You're in the wrong industry if you are "testing to be right"

- Balancing "confidence" without being "arrogant" as a CRO

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Start

04:46 Soft Skills Which Indicate You May Be a Bad CRO

13:05 Collaboration is Key - SEEKING Out That Collaboration Is King

18:26 It's Not What You Say - It's How You Say It

26:05 Risk Tolerance IS Different for Everyone - Don't Project YOUR Risk Tolerance for Others

33:25 Shit You Need to Know: Jason Haddock (How Layoffs Impact CRO)

Go follow Michael Aagaard on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/michalaagaard/)! And go check out Jason's post too! (https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoBJason)

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If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Are you doing 'strategic #CRO' ? What the hell even is strategic CRO? And how do you get there? Well, Talia Wolf had a post previously that triggered this discussion, so I had her on to better flesh out this idea. If you want to learn how to get from tactical to strategic experimentation, this is a can't miss episode.

Plus - we went into some spicy convo about website carousels.....

We got into:

- What rituals define 'tactical' vs. 'strategic CRO

- What is better to start with: qualitative or quantitative research?

- Tips on breaking out of the 'tactical' hamster wheel to get you into strategic experimentation

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Start

07:10 Shiva Triggers Talia (Bad Definitions of CRO Box CRO into Tactics)

11:40 What ARE Tactics vs. Strategy?

18:43 Qualitative Data Should Be First - NOT Quantitative

26:41 Ways to Identify If Your Program is Tactical vs. Strategic

35:04 Shit You Need to Know: Carousels... CAN you actually use them?

Go follow Talia Wolf on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/taliagw/)!

Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content! https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

In many ways, CRO and UX have overlap. But how different are they? And how does UX view CRO? We enlisted the help of Victoria Sakal to go deep into this conversation to understand this from a UXer's perspective. Victoria 'The Warrior' Sakal shared some VERY interesting perspectives which can help CROs and UX collaborate more deeply, among other golden nuggets of information....

We got into:

- How UXers view CROs (rightly, or wrongly...)

- Where UX and CRO actually overlaps (spoiler: they share many things in common)

- Ways for UX and CRO to strengthen their collaboration

Timestamps:

00:00 Episode Start

02:08 What IS CRO To UXers? How Do Others in the UX Space View CROs?

08:51 UX Seems to Look An Awful Lot Like What CRO Is....

14:20 UXers Should Embody CRO Principles

17:40 Why Do (Some) UXers Ignore Data?

22:37 How to Talk To Defensive UXers

31:45 There is a Need For A Shared Database of Insights Across UX / CRO

40:21 Shit You Need to Know: Sandip Amlani

Go follow Victoria Sakal on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/victoriasakal/)!

Also make sure you guys are following Sandip Amlani on LinkedIn - link to his post here: https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoB-Sandip

Subscribe to our newsletter for more memes, clips, and awesome content! https://fromatob.beehiiv.com/

If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Your tests keep on getting blocked. You're frustrated, shaking your fist at the screen, calling everyone a doo-doo head. We've all been there. It sucks. But on the heels of Gertrud Vahtra giving a talk at Experiment Nation on how to help getting alignment on testing by running workshops, I HAD to have her on the podcast to go deeper into this topic.

We got into:

- How to appropriately redirect stakeholders to not disrupt current tests in-flight while also keeping them engaged in the process

- Where being passive aggressive CAN be helpful (and Gertrud DEFINITELY approves of this, and Shiva isn't making it up)

Timestamps:

00:00 Start of Episode

1:38 Shit You Need to Know: Gerda Vogt-Thomas

8:34 Is Lack of Business Alignment on CROs to Fix...?

14:00 How Do You Balance Many Stakeholders Without Having TOO Many "Cooks in the Kitchen"

20:51 Your CRO Program Management Lacks Meta-Data, Which Impacts Transparency and Trust in Your Program

27:53 Does Your "Idea to Experiment Run" Ratio Need Improvement...?

33:01 Establishing Clear "Drivers" Helps Reduce Blocking in Experimentation Approvals

Go follow Gertrud Vahtra on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/gertrudvahtra/)! And check out her Experiment Nation talk too! (out soon)

Also make sure you guys are following Gerda Vogt-Thomas on LinkedIn - link to her (super triggering) post here: https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoB-Gerda

If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Leadership KEEPS ON fighting you on running basic tests. They don't care about data. Your ideas "suck" (to them at least).

We got into:

Timestamps:

00:00 Start of Episode

2:15 Common Reasons Why Leadership Hate Experimentation

7:01 Leadership (For Some Reason...) Values Consultants Over In-House Opinions

10:20 Experimentation Needs Cross-Functional Help - We Can't Do It Alone

15:50 Creating a "Culture of Experimentation" Should Equally Focus on "Culture" - Not Just "Experimentation"

21:00 Leadership's Drive for Impact (Inadvertently) Leads to Snakeoil / Lack of Experimentation

28:16 Messaging Matters in How You Communicate What We Do

35:49 Shit You Need to Know: Michal Eisik

Go follow Nima Yassini on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/nimayassini/)! And check out this article he referenced in the podcast: https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoB-NimaArticle

Also make sure you guys are following Michal Eisik on LinkedIn - link to her post here: https://tinyurl.com/FromAtoB-Michal

If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!

Are you burned out in your #CRO job? Many of us are. Or have been. Or continue to be. Or... will be in the future. André Morys (CEO and founder of konversionsKRAFT) and Shiva Manjunath discussed this topic in this episode.

We got into:

We also got into a pretty interesting debate around using AI users in research for this week's "Shit You Need to Know"....

Timestamps:

00:00 Start of Episode

24:04 Tips on Dealing with Your Burnout

Go follow André Morys on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/andre-morys/)! And if any of y'all are feeling burnout, you are all free to DM either one of us so we can try to help y'all work through it. Also, consider signing up for Experiment Nation's (free) "CRO Therapy" talks, moderated by the OG certified home Tracy Laranjo.

Terrified of running your first A/B test? We've all been there. While it may be super intimidating... you CAN do it! And we're here to help! Shiva Manjunath and Kelly "The TLC" Wortham. recorded an episode to help you reduce that anxiety of running your first test.

We got into:

We also got into some interesting debate around using ROI calculations to calculate revenue for A/B tests in the "Shit You Need to Know" section...

Timestamps:

00:00 Start of Episode

Go follow Kelly Wortham on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellywortham/), and go sign up for the TLC community - it's free, and SUPER fun. (https://testandlearn.community/). And go check out Experimentation Island, a conference on experimentation in February 2024 (https://experimentationisland.com/)

Also make sure you guys are following MJ Smith on LinkedIn - link to her post here: https://tinyurl.com/MJ-FromAtoB

How should optimizers approach experimentation in B2B vs. B2C? Is it truly that different, where it's a skillset that is specialized? Or is there a standard process that can be adopted across both.... with SOME nuance, but really you can be an expert in both at the same time.

Shiva Manjunath enlisted the help of Carlos "The Selfie King" Trujillo, who JUST taught a course on CRO for Ecommerce Growth, to discuss this. We netted out basically saying "there aren't any major differences in process." However, there are some nuances worth exploring which can strengthen how you approach B2B vs B2C in CRO, specifically around psychology of users, differences in metrics (and test success), and research methods used.

If you listen to the whole episode, I drop an exclusive promo code for a hefty amount of $$$ off a ticket for EXL. (Disclaimer: I get no kickbacks or dollars for anyone who uses the code - I just want to meet as many certified homies at EXL! Plus, if you come, you can get a selfie with the selfie king himself!)

Timestamps:

00:00 Start of Episode

Go follow Carlos Trujillo on Linkedin, and check out his course taught at CXL (https://cxl.com/institute/online-course/cro-for-ecommerce/)

Also make sure you guys are following James Carbary on LinkedIn - link to his post here: https://tinyurl.com/JamesAtoB

Knowing the job market is hard as hell recently, Shiva Manjunath decided to enlist the help of Ben "The Zen" Labay, CEO at Speero, to help you nail that CRO interview. Ben Labay has a TON of experience hiring at Speero - he even hired Shiva at some point, which he quoted as "my best hire at Speero ever."

They discussed a number of things, including: CROs should present as product owners, discuss the things you've shipped as much as possible, and demonstrate critical thinking as best as you can during the process of interviewing (especially in any CRO case studies you discuss).

Even though we all hate Ben, we can't deny he says some smart things sometimes. Thankfully every smart thing he's ever said, I captured in this episode.

Plus, if you listen to the whole episode, I drop an exclusive promo code for a hefty amount of $$$ off a ticket for EXL, courtesy of Ben. Disclaimer: I get no kickbacks or dollars for anyone who uses the code - I just want to meet as many certified homies at EXL!

Timestamps:

00:00 Start of Episode

Go follow Ben Labay on LinkedIn, and check out some awesome blueprints on the Speero website to learn more about experimentation things.

Also make sure you guys are following Trina Moitra on LinkedIn - she's a certified homie!!!

Slobodan "The Maniac" Manić joined Shiva to rap about snakeoil in CRO. From understanding the importance of process-focused methodologies, recognizing red flags in case studies, and emphasizing research over results, this episode equips you with the tools needed to avoid being deceived by CRO scams.

This is important, because many times people will call themselves 'CROs' and, unfortunately, it ends up cheapening our reputation when bad faith actors use our name to peddle bullsh*t.

Slobodan is the homie, and this was a banger podcast. Vibes were immaculate.

Timestamps:

00:00 Start of Episode

Go follow Slobodan on LinkedIn, and subscribe to his show at https://www.nohacks.show/

Also make sure you guys are following Tim Mehta on LinkedIn - he posts great content!

If you have listener questions, submit them at https://tinyurl.com/askfromatob for a chance to be featured too!