Gender: A Wider Lens

Dr. Maggie Goldsmith was working as an independent contractor at the psychological and counseling service of a small, progressive, liberal arts college when her 16-year-old daughter announced that she identified as trans-masculine and required he/him pronouns.

Unable to find appropriate help for her daughter who was intensifying her demands for cross-sex hormone treatment as she approached her 18th birthday, Maggie embarked with her on a trip to their ancestral homeland. While there, Maggie wrote about her experiences as a clinician and parent of a gender-questioning adolescent. In her first PITT Substack essay titled, “To my daughter’s therapist: you were wrong,” Maggie wrote about her daughter’s process of shedding transgender identification as she worked to build a more flexible and resilient sense of self. That essay got over 20,000 reads within the first three months of its publication. Her second PITT essay titled, “Trans and the myth of sloppy parenting,” explored the conditions that made her family fertile ground for gender ideology and how, ultimately, the parent-child bond was the solvent for her daughter’s gender dysphoria.

Maggie’s clinical work with teens and families impacted by gender dysphoria is guided by child and adolescent developmental theory and a belief that a good working alliance between therapist and patient can act as the scaffolding to support a young person’s mental health and emotional growth.

We enjoyed this discussion so much that we decided it will be followed up by a Part II in the coming weeks.

Links & Resources:

• https://pitt.substack.com/p/trans-and-the-myth-of-sloppy-parenting
• https://pitt.substack.com/p/to-my-daughters-therapist-you-were

Extended Notes

• Maggie was surprised to see they/them pronouns on student applications.
• She didn’t think much of her daughter approaching her with the idea of taking hormone therapy when she turned 25.
• Her daughter had the makings of an identity crisis.
• During Covid, tragedy struck the family and her children were attending school online.
• Her daughter went to Planned Parenthood to get testosterone shots on her 18th birthday without talking to Maggie.
• Even respected gender identity specialists were offering Maggie misplaced recommendations.
• Maggie felt that she had no resources and that she, as a clinician, would have to figure things out on her own.
• Attaching to binaries and a denial of history is common in teens and this compels a parent to be present-day focused.
• The same day Maggie made an appointment for her daughter at a gender clinic, her daughter bought a dress and heels online.
• Maggie thought about traveling as a way to give her daughter time to get clearer about her identity.
• Her son supported her daughter’s transition which Maggie found created a toxic environment.
• A fellow psychologist told Maggie that she was abandoning her son.
• In the family’s native language there are no gendered pronouns.
• When Maggie told her daughter she was done with gender issues, her daughter admitted to being done with it as well.

Wider Lens Renewal Retreat — Arizona 2022:

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This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and

Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/

and

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Denise Caignon is the founder of 4th wave now, the very first parent blog in the U.S. exposing the dangers and madness of the gender affirmative model of care for minors. In 2014, Denise seemed to be an ordinary U.S. mother who happened to work in healthcare, when her then 17-year-old daughter, out of the blue, texted her a link to a gender doctor’s website who claims he approves hormones and surgery for trans people.

Denise refers to herself as a “good liberal” who didn’t know anything about this but was willing to investigate, so she made phone calls. She soon became puzzled by the response of the gender affirmative clinicians and decided she needed to do her own research. As it turns out Denise is quite extraordinary. Always a maverick and a deep thinker, found herself accidentally starting the groundbreaking website, 4thWaveNow, which grew to play a huge role in careful analysis and documentation of the psychological and medical harms being done to young people in the name of gender.

Today, we talk with Denise as she reflects on how the U.S. has changed in its approach to this issue and some challenges we face when promoting gender exploratory therapy. This is a special conversation since Denise is so insanely knowledgeable about all things contemporary gender debates: from the big picture to the behind-the-scenes internet drama. Oh, and by the way, her daughter no longer identifies as trans, and she tells us about that story too. So, buckle in, and enjoy our discussion with 4thwavenow founder, Denise.

Links:

• https://4thwavenow.com/
• Not Plural Phobic: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/12/29/not-plural-phobic-uspath-psychiatrist-promotes-transition-for-multiple-personalities/
• Age is just a number: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/03/20/age-is-just-a-number-when-it-comes-to-genital-surgeries-on-minors/
• Alexander Korte: https://www.lmu-klinikum.de/kinder-und-jugendpsychiatrie
• The pop tarts story: https://4thwavenow.com/2017/07/23/i-just-gave-him-the-language-top-gender-doc-uses-pop-tart-analogy-to-persuade-8-year-old-girl-shes-really-a-boy/

Extended Notes

• In 2014, Denise’s daughter sent her a link to a gender clinic.
• Denise researched as much as she could about trans people quickly.
• She never intended to start a website but she needed to find other people who understood what she was going through.
• She received death threats after posting her first article.
• Denise describes the pop tarts story.
• After a visit to a somewhat offline horse farm, Denise’s daughter desisted.
• A certain percentage of gender dysphoric young people end up being gay or lesbian.
• Denise doesn’t believe desistance is a bad thing.
• Certain hormones can sterilize young people.
• People who weren’t talking about gender issues in the past are now talking about gender issues.
• Sasha, Stella, and Denise discuss the differences in the U.S. and the UK with regard to gender discussions.
• Finding common ground can be difficult when all sides want to capitalize on gender discussions.
• Denise describes the faith component involved in some detransition
  
  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Shannon Thrace is a writer, IT professional, and devotee of farm-to-table restaurants, summer festivals, all-night conversations, and lifelong learning. She’s passionate about unplugging, getting outside, and traveling the world. She’s also a trans widow who has written a memoir, soon to be published.

Today Shannon tells about first meeting her husband, Jaime. She fell in love and married a man who was creative and artistic, with an eclectic but grungy style. He was down for anything, fun to be around, and spontaneous. They moved from the city to the country. This was a young open-minded couple that enjoyed a playfulness in their relationship. So when Jamie stumbled across trans porn and developed an interest in cross-dressing, Shannon was more curious than distressed. But then things took a weird turn. As Jamie started to spend more time in online spaces, and less time in the real world, his interest in cross-dressing changed from a fun activity to a real struggle with gender dysphoria. He spiraled into worsening mental health and their marriage took a dive. Shannon tells the story of how her loving marriage couldn’t withstand the pressure of Jamie’s obsessions, ideologies, and online activism. We touch on the role of affirmative therapists, the loss of her friends, and Shannon’s utter isolation from this complicated situation. Ultimately a solo camping trip helped her ground herself and make a decision about ending the marriage. She ends this interview with some advice to other women who may be in a similar situation.

Links:

Substack: shannonthrace.substack.com

Shannon's Book: 18 Months: A Memoir of a Marriage Lost to Gender Identity

Extended Notes

• Shannon shares the story of her love for her husband.
• Exploring Trans pornography was Jamie’s way of introducing Shannon to his transformation.
• Jamie changed his personal style many times over the years.
• Shannon identified as a lesbian before meeting her husband.
• While testing out the waters of cross-dressing, Jamie was writing about his masculinity in a blog.
• A brief comment from a stranger ignited Jamie’s gender dysphoria.
• Jamie’s story closely fits into the gender dysphoria narrative on the internet at the time.
• Jamie was so depressed he stepped out of his everyday life. He quit work and stopped having sex with Shannon.
• Shannon’s therapist recommended she write a letter to say goodbye to her male partner.
• The therapist commented that she thought it would be fun to transition Jamie.
• Jamie started to pull away, sabotaged Shannon in tirades, and gave their mutual friends ultimatums.
• Jamie has had surgery to fully incorporate his beliefs.
• Shannon believes gender dysphoria can be acquired.
• Shannon offers advice for those who have spouses in various stages of transitioning.

Wider Lens Renewal Retreat – Arizona 2022: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157

This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.

For more about our show: https://linktr.ee/WiderLensPod

Professor Tony Attwood has specialized in Autism Spectrum Disorders since he qualified as a clinical psychologist in England in 1975. He has written two books: Asperger’s Syndrome: A Guide for Parents and Professionals and The Complete Guide to Asperger’s Syndrome. Between the two, they’ve sold over 800,000 copies and have been translated into dozens of languages.

He has been a keynote speaker at many Australian and International Conferences and he presents workshops and runs training courses for parents, professionals, and individuals with Asperger’s syndrome all over the world.

Today, Dr. Attwood helps us to better understand autistic traits in the gender-questioning teens we see today. We covered this topic in Episode 17 but felt there were things we missed and wanted to clarify. As Dr. Atwood informed us before we hit record, his expertise is in Autism, and he may not be as well versed in the intricacies of contemporary gender identity activism or the studies around gender dysphoria, transition, and desistance. But his knowledge of autism in children and teens is vast and he was engaging and lovely to speak to!

We asked Dr. Attwood about special interests, or the fixations and narrow obsessions that are common in autism, we asked him about the difficulty with socializing and how immediate affirmation in an LGBT peer group might be experienced. We also delve into the vulnerabilities and strengths of autistic adolescents and how parents can best support their children when they make rigid or urgent demands. Dr. Attwood highlights the difficult position parents may be in when their child is highly distressed but rushing into a process he/she may not fully understand. We also explored the new world that has opened up to teens via computers and social media and the tricky landscape that complicates a normal adolescent search for identity.

Links:

• Website: 

https://tonyattwood.com.au/

• Dr. Attwood’s Books on Amazon: 

https://amzn.to/3PKm1AN

• Events: 

https://www.attwoodandgarnettevents.com

Extended Notes

• Sasha explains to Professor Attwood the slower, psychological approach to gender facilitated on this podcast.
• Often, in those with autism, the age of emotional maturity does not match the chronological age.
• Professor Attwood describes what he believes to be the similarities between autism and gender.
• Autistic individuals seek affirmation and the transgender community offers affirmation but not at the level the autistic individual is seeking.
• Discovering a self-identity, regardless of gender, is a mechanism of realization utilized by Professor Attwood.
• Parents are expected to accept a child’s different concept of self in autism and gender.
• From a psychological perspective, it seems that social transition creates a sort of pathway toward medical transition.
• With autism subtlety is rare.
• Professor Attwood shares the positive and negative physical and psychological advantages for teens who find acceptance online.
• In his group, Professor Attwood explores how the world is perceived by autistic individuals.
• The ratio of autistic boys to girls is two to one.
• One in three of those in eating disorder clinics have autism, gender-dysphoria, etc.
• What it means when diagnoses are changed from autism to ADHD+.
• Professor Attwood describes an example of when children have characteristics of autism but not the disability.
• Gender exploration
  
  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Maya Forstater is a researcher, writer, and advisor working on business and sustainable development. She is one of the founders of Sex Matters, the UK-based, not-for-profit organization that seeks to re-establish that sex matters in rules, laws, policies, language, and culture.

In 2019, she lost her job after tweeting and writing about sex and gender. She had begun talking and tweeting about news articles that she felt espoused bizarre new beliefs about gender and what the implications may be. For example, while building a campaign to combat overly-sex-segregated toys for children, called Let Toys be Toys, Maya observed that society had shifted from fighting sex stereotypes to claiming that some children were neither girls nor boys. It was fascinating to learn that even when researching tax policy, Maya found herself calling out unrealistic, utopian ideas and ruffling feathers among her liberal peers. In this conversation, Maya also reflects on her unlikely position in her landmark court case which established that gender-critical views are protected as a belief under the equality act. Despite her reluctance to jump into a complex and messy legal process, she felt a strong conviction to take this on.

Links:

• Wider Lens Renewal Retreat — Arizona 2022:

https://www.eventbrite.com/e/wider-lens-renewal-retreats-arizona-2022-tickets-368655377157

• Sex Matters:

https://sex-matters.org/

• Let Toys Be Toys:

https://www.lettoysbetoys.org.uk/

• Twitter Handle: https://www.twitter.com/@MForstater

• More of Maya’s Writing:

https://a-question-of-consent.net/

Extended Notes

• In 2017, Maya took notice of the gender wars and started the “Let Toys Be Toys” campaign.
• Maya believes women are women and women have rights.
• It is widely spread that Maya is a Tax Accountant but her role in social justice is much more than that.
• Maya challenges people to engage in issues on Twitter and in her workplace.
• An employer told Maya that because she retweeted Kathleen Stock she was a bigot.
• Maya retained her job after explaining her plight on a blog and Twitter.
• Her father’s legal experience influenced Maya about whether or not to sue others.
• There is a legal time limit on discrimination cases.
• At the moment Maya was prepared to launch a public campaign, a major social justice law firm dropped her case.
• Maya has public support from those unable to raise their voice at work.
• The first hearing, that Maya lost, was about sex being real and a protected philosophical belief.
• In the first trial, a judge called Maya an Absolutist.
• A tweet from JK Rowling catapulted Maya’s campaign into the international spotlight.
• In 2021, Maya finally won a case that created a precedent that gender-critical people have the same rights as religious people.
• Sex Matters is an organization Maya founded to educate people about their rights.

This podcast is sponsored by ReIME and Genspect. Visit https://rethinkime.org/ and https://genspect.org/ to learn more.

For more

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com