Gender: A Wider Lens

Dr. Lisa Littman coined Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria (ROGD) in her seminal 2018 parental report survey. ROGD is a descriptive term for the phenomenon of young people suddenly announcing a transgender identity and experiencing gender dysphoria for the first time around adolescence. Dr. Littman’s latest ground-breaking study on the experience of 100 detransitioners was published in the last few weeks and we reflect on some of the most astonishing findings. In this conversation, Lisa also reflects on what she’s learned since getting embroiled in a controversy she wasn’t expecting. She shares some possible reasons why the topic of affirmative medical care has become so polarized. Lisa points out that patients get hurt when clinicians pledge an allegiance to a particular approach rather than prioritizing the well-being of dysphoric people.

Links:

Dr. Littman’s Website:

Littmanresearch.com

Interview in Quillette: Quillette.com/2019/03/19/an-interview-with-lisa-littman-who-coined-the-term-rapid-onset-gender-dysphoria

Extended Notes:

• Why has Dr. Lisa’s study on detransitioners received so much controversy? Dr. Lisa shares how she now feels about this.
• There are a lot of ways to support people who are transgender but fast-tracking access to hormones in an effort to support transgender people, regardless if it’s more beneficial, is transphobic.
• Dr. Lisa shares a bit about her background and what led her to the detransitioner’s study.
• There are parents who believe transition will help their children and there are parents who don’t. We need to understand that they just want to help their children and there are multiple ways to do that.
• Dr. Lisa shares further how her study was not accepted. She recruited respondents on social media where they orchestrated an event that undermined her data.
• Dr. Lisa defines further what detransitioning means as this area of research is still early.
• Affirmative model vs. exploratory model. The latter tries to understand why you are gender dysphoric whereas the former immediately concludes that you should transition.
• Mental health conditions don’t have a targeted fix.
• Psychosocial factors could contribute to the development of gender dysphoria.
• Dr. Lisa also shares the effects of social influence such as pressure from a person, a group of people, or society on the interpretation of one’s own feelings. Can this lead to a misdiagnosis?
• There are a variety of ways people can live their lives and they cannot solely be defined by rigid gender roles and stereotypes.
• Language can be very powerful and if it was used in a way that doesn’t confine people’s feelings to a specific label, it wouldn’t create such a problem.
• Where are the differences between male and female detransitions? Dr. Lisa explains further.
• Stella concurs that if a detransition was because the person was more comfortable with their biological sex, this could have been avoided through a proper approach during therapy.
• Exploring discomfort around sexual orientation would be a great place for trans therapists to help their patients.

UK transwoman Debbie Hayton discusses how she came to the decision to medically transition when she was a 44-year-old father of 3 children. We discuss Debbie’s appearance in Stella’s film, Trans Kids: It’s Time to Talk and the intense public reaction to her story. Male sexuality, shame, and autogynephilia are explored openly in a bid to gain a deeper understanding of the complicated mosaic of traits that encompass MtF transition. She also shares how she became disillusioned with transgender ideology and coined the phrase, “trans women are men. Get over it.”

Links:

Critically Examining the Doctrine of Gender Identity with Rebecca Reilly-Cooper: Youtube.com/watch?v=QPVNxYkawao

Magdalen Berns on Alex Drummond:

Youtube.com/watch?v=JkK7zisjoDk

Miranda Yardley:

Youtube.com/watch?v=Bn66yhFoov4

Debbie’s Website: 

Debbiehayton.com

Extended Notes:

• Stella talks about the 2018 film, Trans Kids, and how people misinterpreted how Debbie emerged in that film.
• How is it for a family when there is a late transition? Debbie transitioned at 44 years old with a wife and three children.
• Debbie shares the answer to the big question on why the chronic condition of the dissatisfaction of her sex and body suddenly became acute.
• Could there have been a therapy or experience that may have pulled her back from transitioning?
• Debbie shares how she used shame, guilt, and fear as powerful emotions to control her desire to dress as a girl at four years old.
• Debbie describes how she sees autogynephilia as a sexuality and how you can be attracted to your own body where it can be the focus of your sexual interest.
• The male sexual drive is so powerful and there is a need to control it. Has Debbie now been freed from that after her transition?
• Sasha wonders, if Debbie stumbled upon gender dysphoria or autogynephilia and how it manifests in some male people before her transformation, would it have changed what she felt she needed to do or how she managed her feelings?
• Stella and Sasha also discuss how people can be compulsive with their feelings about gender and ask Debbie about her thoughts on gender euphoria and the “pink mist.”
• Is there a way for the autogynephilic to operate in the world without asking other people to buy into the narrative that they’re a woman? Debbie shares what helped her lift her pink mist.
• Should transwomen go through synthetic menopause and, if so, what are the potential negative effects of that?
• Debbie shares how she feels about her body now, her current beliefs about her sexuality, and how she interacts with it in the world around her.

This podcast is partially sponsored by ReIME, Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics:

Rethinkime.org

Learn more about our show: Linktr.ee/WiderLensPod

The holiday season is often associated with big expectations and high hopes. It can be fraught for families, whether they are going through challenging times with a child’s gender identity. Sasha and Stella discuss the meaning of extended family, big celebrations, and how to keep the stakes low and reasonable during the holidays. They also discuss the holidays as a time some young people try to ‘come out,’  while others feel hesitant to reconnect with loved ones who haven’t yet seen their new ‘gender presentation.’ Sasha and Stella also provide practical strategies that families can use to recruit loving trusted adults who also have the child’s best interests in mind.

Links:  

What happened in LeRoy https://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/magazine/teenage-girls-twitching-le-roy.html

Stop That! It's not Tourette's but a new type of mass sociogenic illness: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34424292/

Debbie Nathan’s Lecture:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLKAIObPWJE

Genspect’s Brief Guidance for Friends and Family: https://genspect.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Friends-and-family.pdf

Sasha’s Newsletter on Extended Family: 

http://eepurl.com/dKNASc

Whale Rider Movie:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0298228/

Extended Notes:

• The holidays are really hard for a lot of gender questioning children. 
• Our families are our lifeblood to connection, and if there’s conflict within it, it’s hard for everyone involved.
• People are coming together for the first time since COVID. There’s a lot of things going on.
• People are more isolated than ever, and when there’s a conflict within the family, it really burdens the parents because they can not rely on their extended family. 
• What do you do when you haven’t seen your extended family in a while, and you’ve...transitioned? 
• Families who are ashamed of their child transitioning will try everything they can to keep it a secret. 
• Some children want their parents to tell the world, others feel betrayed if their parents let out their secret. How do you navigate when each case is so personal and individualized? 
• What should you talk about at Thanksgiving? 
• Are you estranged with your child? Sometimes sending a small gift to remind them of home is all that's needed. Sasha offers suggestions. 
• If you’re planning to see your family this holiday season (or if your children plan to visit you) and you know you’re going to get triggered, find someone close to you who you can call beforehand/during these events. Let them know you will need a ‘lifeline’ on this day. 
• Families are complicated in general, add tension to the mix and you have a mini explosion waiting to happen. The holidays just intensify these feelings. 
• Remember, pick your battles. Do you really wanna die on this hill?
• How do you deal with the grandparents? How do you tell your mom and dad about your gender questioning teen? 
• Stella shares how her mother was trying to understand the field of work Stella is in as a therapist.
• Sasha shares resources on how you can help the older generation understand...
  
  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

Over the last number of years, Benjamin Boyce has become known for his prolific and powerful video content on the impact of social justice. Among his most-watched content is a huge series of conversations about sex, gender, identity, and transition. He was among the first to platform detransitioners’ stories and investigate the issue of childhood transition. In this episode, we delve deep into Benjamin’s childhood and find out why he has committed to exposing the underlying problems associated with identity politics.

Links:  

Benjamin’s YouTube: 

Youtube.com/channel/UCm13xHVNFVwzHzK3QHSaZ3Q

Benjamin on Apple Podcasts: 

Podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/calmversations/id1447774150 

Playlist: gender, sexuality and transition 

Youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRdayXEOwuMH3f0pmZqVQUU62rgJIzvt9 

Evergreen playlist: 

Youtube.com/playlist?list=PLRdayXEOwuMG1jaAtJE0KbpyY_Kh-JTUl 

Veera

Youtube.com/watch?v=YLkBk2bBp_c

Father and son, Ash and Raphael

Youtube.com/watch?v=FoEWbVviOpk

Extended Notes:

• A little bit about Benjamin and why he got started in this kind of work. What was he like as a child?
• Benjamin’s father was deeply devoted to his town’s pastor, but as time went on, this man became more and more controlling over Benjamin’s family. They accused his mother of being possessed and rearranged family structures in the community. Benjamin “inherited” two siblings.
• After leaving that town, Benjamin’s family moved around constantly. He always felt like an outsider.
• Benjamin, following in his dad’s dreams of wanting to be a pastor, also always wanted to be a pastor.
• Why did Benjamin decide to start a YouTube channel?
• Benjamin talks about his experience at Evergreen State College and why it was so chaotic.
• In California, there were a ton of weird cults happening in the ’70s and ’80s.
• Benjamin talks about a weird cascading effect that happened around pronouns and Jordan Peterson. It was all about the trans issue. He noticed some patterns between Evergreen and how people were addressing the trans issue.
• If you want to get good at any craft, you have to create. You have to take action.
• What is this trans thing all about, really? Benjamin was curious.
• Have the activists attacked Benjamin for his opinions?
• In the end, Benjamin just wants to have good conversations.
• Benjamin does believe that there is an erosion of masculinity in today’s society and the way certain trends are currently going.

This podcast is partially sponsored by ReIME, Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics:

Rethinkime.org

Learn more about our show: Linktr.ee/WiderLensPod

When an adult comes out as trans, it might be a liberating moment in their lives that has felt long overdue. Sometimes, however, the sudden nature of the identity change can feel destabilizing to their loved ones. In this episode, Sasha and Stella discuss the many complex factors in adult transition. Are there elements of liberation, freedom, and independence, or might indoctrination or identity crisis be playing a role? And how can families try to stay connected if the adult begins throwing up rigid barriers which create distance and estrangement?

Links:

Love Lives Here: A Story of Thriving in a Transgender Family, by Amanda Jette Knox 

Amazon.com/Love-Lives-Here-Thriving-Transgender-ebook/dp/B07L2HK8D9/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=love+lives+here+knox&qid=1634062673&s=books&sr=1-1

Somebody to Love: A Family Story, by Alexandra Heminsley 

Amazon.com/Some-Body-Love-Family-Story-ebook/dp/B087LVTMH5

Sex Changes: A Memoir of Marriage, Gender, and Moving, by Christine Benvenuto 

Amazon.com/Sex-Changes-Memoir-Marriage-Gender-ebook/dp/B0085UCVKY

Extended Notes:

• It’s tricky for everybody involved when you know somebody who is leaving their “old self” to become a radically and visually different person.
• Let’s talk about the demographics of those who transition. What’s happening if someone transitions in their late 20s?
• What’s going on in a man’s mind when he transitions at middle age?
• For many parents, it’s a complete shock that their child wants to change genders. And since they’re no longer living at home, the child doesn’t want to have an “open discussion” about it.
• When children tell their parents they’re switching majors after three years, that’s a huge shock to parents too! Parents want to talk to their children about what’s going on.
• When we’re terrified we can act very intensely.
• Some children don’t want to talk to their parents about it because they don’t want their fragile or uncertain opinion to be swayed.
• When someone decides to transition later in their life, they are typically men.
• Stella shares a story of how a man transitioned shortly after his wife had a baby. It appeared he was envious that he couldn’t care for the child in that feminine way.
• There is a community out there for women who were married to men that have now transitioned.
• Sometimes people do strange things just to keep the family together.
• Parents can sometimes feel “abused” by their transitioning teen. What does this typically look like? How do you spot it?
• For some households, it might make sense to let go with love, or else you and everyone in your family unit will crumble.
• Watching someone transition is a really disorientating process. It can also really affect younger siblings.
• There are two sides to the coin. Some children transition okay and continue to lead happy productive lives. Other...
  
  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com

When parents are trying to help their teenager through a difficult time, ideally they work together as a team to strategize, plan, and collaborate. But for many families facing important parenting decisions around their child’s gender struggle, disagreement and conflict can arise. Sasha and Stella discuss a range of family dynamics from low-level disagreements to all out custody battles. What happens when one parent wants to intervene and the other wants to “go with the flow?” They also offer some reflections on what underlying issues might have predated the child’s gender distress and suggest strategies for parents to think big-picture and face the difficulties in their relationships.  

Q&A Clips: Therapists are not Parental Substitutes: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a88t_LaxKs0 

The Time In Between: A Memoir of Hunger and Hope 

https://www.amazon.com/Time-Between-Memoir-Hunger-Hope/dp/1848318308 

Our conversation with Helena continues and takes a personal, intimate turn. She reflects that her desire to transition was actually an attempt to meet a deep relational need. She sought to garner a kind of engagement and recognition from her parents. Unfortunately, the way they responded triggered a doubling-down and sense of urgency for medical intervention. Helena offers some insights into better ways parents can react to their gender-questioning child in the hopes of helping families avoid the dissolution hers experienced. This vulnerable conversation confronts the challenges of family relations with both emotional honesty and courage.

Links:

Helena on Twitter:

Twitter.com/lacroicsz

Extended Notes:

• Trans kids are worried about how their parents will receive their trans letter. What’s going through their minds when they’re about to come out to their parents?
• Helena wanted attention so badly. She had a very distant relationship with her parents and she wanted to have the same sort of household her peers were having (involved parents).
• In Helena’s family, they found out she was trans and then it became an elephant in the room where no one really ever spoke about it again. Helena shares what happened when she came out.
• What reaction was Helena hoping to get from her mother?
• Helena decided to go through with her plan anyway and write a coming-out letter. She found it in the kitchen trash a few days later. It was like no one in her household cared.
• Helena got into another huge fight about her identity when she came back temporarily from college with her mother.
• It turned into Helena being completely rejected by her mother and she had to go no contact for over a year with her.
• Because Helena was rejected from her household, she felt like she had to double down as a boy and she couldn’t go back to being a girl.
• Helena shares how she was able to get her hands on testosterone without her parent’s consent.
• Helena was so convincing that the nurse and the professionals just decided to skip blood work and give her very, very high doses of testosterone right off the bat. In retrospect, this was concerning.
• What is Helena’s relationship with her parents now?
• Growing up, Helena felt like it was just all her fault.
• Helena is still grappling with the effects of her childhood and how lonely she felt.
• What advice does Helena have for parents?
• It’s not your job to change your child’s mind. It’s your job to just be aware, attentive, and listen. Your child is not aware of all the consequences.
• If your child doesn’t want to talk, then start small.
• Don’t explode with your emotions. Use your words. Be vulnerable. Try to be open. Try to express what you’re feeling, not thinking, to them.
• What made Helena detransition?
• Helena identifies as an outsider and tries to recreate different scenarios to be in that space again.

This podcast is partially sponsored by ReIME, Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics:

Rethinkime.org

Learn more about our show: Linktr.ee/WiderLensPod

This is Part 1 of a two-part conversation with Helena. She is a 23-year-old detransitioned woman, well-known on Twitter and YouTube for her insights into the FtM trans kid mindset. The self-described “gender apostate” shares her thoughts on ROGD’s relationship with critical social justice, fandom culture, “shipping,” and the extraordinary fascination many teenage girls have with young gay men.

Links:

Helena on Twitter: 

Twitter.com/lacroicsz

Extended Notes:

• Helena is a detransitioned woman. She identified as a transgender man at 15, but by 19, she wanted to become a woman again.
• A little bit about Helena and her detransition journey.
• Before Helena started testosterone, she had this fantasy that not being female would be amazing. Helena was very isolated in her journey. Her ex, also a trans person, was against her detransitioning.
• As she was on this journey as a man, she was so tired of pretending to be masculine and wearing clothes that didn’t fit her body.
• What was it like psychologically to suppress Helena’s feminine side for so long?
• Has social justice affected or played a role in trans identity?
• Helena remembers reading things like, if you feel different than everybody else, it probably means you're trans.
• Teenagers are biologically more sensitive to social rejection from their peers, and they’ll do anything to fit in and belong.
• Whenever Helena was questioned about her new identity, she just thought they were just stuck in old beliefs and just wouldn’t listen.
• Helena explains what a trans medicalist is and shares her thoughts on the difference between non-binary people and trans people.
• What makes someone a cis girl or a cis boy or what really makes someone trans? The reasons are very superficial.
• Cis allies are finding it difficult to be allies to the transgender community because they’re being told their opinions don’t count.
• What is trans fandom all about? And what is “shipping” all about within this fandom culture?
• A lot of these “shipping” content has sexual undertones of gay pairings of common fictional characters.
• Growing up, it can get confusing. Men, that you’re basing your identity off of, are being written by teenage girls.
• Let’s talk about Tumblr and how these trans mood boards all originated.
• Helena remembers this internet time very fondly. She loved being on the “gay” side of the internet where it was all acceptable.
• Helena wishes there was a way people can indulge in their sexuality in a non-threatening way, but she also understands that too much of it can lead down the wrong path where it creates dysphoria.

This podcast is partially sponsored by ReIME, Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics:

Rethinkime.org

Learn more about our show: Linktr.ee/WiderLensPod

Aaron Terrell transitioned female-to-male in 2011. He wasn’t involved in social media or the trans community until roughly 2017 when he noticed some unusual anomalies involving the new cohort of females identifying as trans men and undergoing medical transitioning. Then, earlier this year, Aaron read J. K. Rowling’s essay and everything changed.

Links:

Aaron’s blog: 

Aaronterrell.substack.com

Aaron on Twitter:

Twitter.com/elegationvain

Gender Dysphoria Alliance:

Twitter.com/gd_alliance?lang=en

Dysphoria is not one thing:

4thwavenow.com/2017/12/07/gender-dysphoria-is-not-one-thing

Transparency Podcast:

Podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/transparency/id1583333120

Unfiltered with Buck Angel (on UpperhandMARS):

Youtu.be/nqAJLHZCWv0

Extended Notes:

• A little bit about Aaron and his journey.
• Why did Aaron decide to transition at 27?
• Aaron was introduced to a trans social circle when he was still in college, although it was nice to be with his tribe, certain topics made him uncomfortable.
• Did family members recognize Aaron’s struggles when he was going through puberty as a woman?
• Aaron shares his beliefs on religion, and what his religious upbringing was like.
• People are making their lives much more difficult by trying to opt out and be different with their gender.
• Why did Aaron start his blog and podcast?
• Aaron was largely helped by transitioning, but he understands the drawbacks and often writes about those drawbacks.
• Sasha reads an excerpt from his blog, and Aaron expands on his thoughts on the trans movement at the time.
• Aaron had a lot of internalized misogyny happening when he started to become a man.
• He was supposed to be a wife and a mother, and when he transitioned, what was next? It was natural for Aaron to be a breadwinner, and adopt an identity of what that “traditionally” looks like.
• When it comes to trans people using the male and female bathrooms, where does he stand on the issue? At first, he thought people who were offended by this were transphobes.
• Where does the ethical line get drawn on some of these controversial issues?
• With so many young children transitioning so early, what’s the fallout going to look like? Aaron believes there are going to be a lot of de-transitioners.
• What is the Gender Dysphoria Alliance all about?

This podcast is partially sponsored by ReIME, Rethink Identity Medicine Ethics:

Rethinkime.org

Learn more about our show: Linktr.ee/WiderLensPod

The listeners’ questions continue to absorb our interest and influence our discussion. The issue of power struggles between parents and children has been raised along with a special focus on knowing when to hold ’em and when to fold ’em. The script that trans-identified teenagers often use to declare their trans identification is outlined and Sasha & Stella discuss a kind of counter script for parents. Finally, we suggest a liberal parents’ guide to explaining your child’s gender-related distress with friends, neighbors, and the wider community.

Links:

Sasha’s Video: Effects of Affirmation: Gender Identity vs Sexual Orientation:

Youtube.com/watch?v=Zjv-eDaZNH0&feature=emb_title

Motherhood: Facing and Finding Yourself, by Lisa Marchiano:

Amazon.com/Motherhood-Finding-Yourself-Lisa-Marchiano/dp/1683646665

Extended Notes:

• Thank you so much for submitting your questions and providing Stella and Sasha with excellent feedback! We appreciate you!
• Q: What can I say to my daughter? Is there a counter script?
• Stella loves the idea of having a script for parents to help their teen think deeper on some of the implications of a transition.
• Sasha has noticed parents falling into certain categories, like having a difficult time with their authority towards their child vs. some parents going in with a lot of fear and force on what their child “should” be.
• Don’t expect lightbulb moments from your child when you share a piece of wisdom with them. Sometimes it takes some time to sink in.
• Should you use a script? Sasha believes that everyone’s situation is different. She believes it’s best to share wisdom and advice that is specifically applicable to your child.
• Remember, you don’t need to turn this conversation into a political debate with your child.
• As parents, we tend to put on a cheerful “life is great” smile in front of our kids, even when you might be mad at your partner, or deeply dislike your mother-in-law. There’s something very unauthentic about this. Children pick up on it and they’ll call you out on it around the ages of 12 to 14.
• The best friend’s parents. Let’s talk about them. They’ve very liberal with your child’s pronouns because it’s not happening to their family.
• People who are giving your child the okay to transition, it’s another form of you having to stand up for your child to people who think they know better than you as a parent.
• Q: I can’t deny her feelings, but I think we should stay open-minded for future options, but that’s not enough for her. It feels like a power struggle. What should I do?
• Some parents want to avoid the power struggle, so they end up saying yes to everything. That’s not the best way forward, either.
• When you have a kid who has been historically compliant under their parents’ wishes, the power struggle is even stronger as they grow up.
• What are some of the best ways to approach this subject? Stella offers some advice on how to soften the elephant in the room.
• The power struggles are exhausting. It’s very difficult to manage these temperaments and all the fun gets zapped out of the household.
• Q: Gender dysphoria vs. social dysphoria. Are there tips on ways to help a child with social dysphoria? Can you talk more about this?
• What is social dysphoria? There is general anxiety around people who are prejudging you before knowing you.
• You cannot change somebody’s perception of you. You are setting yourself up for failure and misery if you think you can.
• It takes time to understand this, but as a child or...
  
  This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.widerlenspod.com