Get Discovered by Prerender.io

Ethan Smith, CEO of Graphite, works with some of the largest organizations in tech: Adobe, Notion, Webflow, and more. He's an adjunct professor at Reforge, teaching SEO and AEO to some of the brightest minds in the industry. And he's one of the biggest voices in SEO online.

Ethan joins the Get Discovered podcast to share his knowledge, discuss Graphite's extensive database of proprietary research, and provide tangible tips on what brands can do now to optimize their presence in AI search.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• Why AI is 4 to 5x bigger than published data suggests
• The biggest differences between AEO and SEO
• The most common misconceptions that are costing marketing teams
• Why “just focus on Reddit” is bad advice
• The issue with your help center content
• What product-focused content actually drives AI citations
• How to measure AI search visibility without a data science team
• How brands can show up authentically on Reddit without getting banned

Ethan also walks through his 5% framework, why most of your SEO work is probably wasted, and how to reshuffle your efforts to maximize your impact.

Chapters:

• 00:19 - Welcome to Get Discovered
• 07:48 - Is AEO actually different from SEO?
• 09:58 - Misconceptions marketing leaders are holding onto
• 13:38 - The markdown myth (and other technical misconceptions)
• 17:44 - Introducing the 5% framework
• 18:02 - Strategies that actually drive results (and why most work is wasted)
• 21:26 - How to win on Reddit
• 31:16 - How to measure AI search discovery
• 43:42 - Final takeaway: do your own research, and validate everything
• 47:12 - Monday Morning Action: audit your help center content

Resources and links:

• Connect with Ethan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ethanls/
• The Graphite blog: https://graphite.io/five-percent
• The Get Discovered podcast hub: https://prerender.io/podcast
• About Prerender: www.prerender.io

About the show:

Get Discovered is a podcast from Prerender.io where AI and online discoverability collide. Season 2 explores how AI is changing where discovery happens, what actually gets surfaced, and why so many teams are realizing they don't have the visibility or control they thought they did.

New episodes drop weekly. Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen.

🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0rzmrAPI063Y0LYpHipII8

🎧 Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/get-discovered-by-prerender-io/id1840604392

🎧 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Prerender

🎧 About the show: https://prerender.io/podcast

Ryan Law spent 14 years building a career on the predictability of SEO. Publish good content, optimize it well, and watch the traffic compound.

Then he published the research showing AI overviews reduce clicks to top-ranking pages by 58%, and needed to find a new strategy quickly.

Ryan is the Director of Content Marketing at Ahrefs, one of the most widely read SEO blogs in the industry. In this episode, he sits down to talk about what's actually breaking for content teams right now, why the way companies think about AI search is wrong, and what the next 12–18 months look like from someone sitting inside one of the industry's biggest data sets.

What you'll learn:

• Why AI overviews are the primary driver of click loss, and what the data actually shows
• How to frame the traffic conversation with leadership when the whole industry is affected
• Why Ryan believes there's an inverse relationship between attribution ease and a tactic's longevity
• The shift Ahrefs is making: more original research, more LinkedIn, more third-party distribution
• Why AI search and traditional SEO are the same channel, and why treating them separately is a mistake
• What Ryan is genuinely optimistic about in the AI era

Monday Morning Action

When someone discovers your brand through ChatGPT or Perplexity, they avoid clicking links and open a new tab directly to your site. This often shows up as direct traffic without a source, referral, or campaign data.

This week's action:

1. Pick your top 3 pages by historical organic traffic
2. Open GA4 and check the direct traffic trend over the past 6–12 months
3. If direct traffic is climbing to those pages, AI might be sending you customers without leaving a note

Found something surprising? Share it with us at prerender.io/podcast for a chance to be featured in a future episode.

Resources and links:

• Connect with Ryan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thinkingslow/
• Ahrefs blog: https://ahrefs.com/blog/
• Cory Doctorow's "Enshittification": https://www.versobooks.com/products/3341-enshittification?srsltid=AfmBOooGMeVQbUo34yTtlwhEB1rRv_e2DzPsbF_y1IOrivL-2d-UaBXB
• Get Discovered podcast hub: https://prerender.io/podcast
• About Prerender: prerender.io

About the show:

Get Discovered is the podcast where AI and online discoverability collide. Season 2 is focused on how AI is changing where discovery happens, what actually gets surfaced, and why so many teams are realizing they don't have the visibility or control they thought they did.

New episodes drop weekly. Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen.

Yoast is the SEO plugin behind more than 13 million WordPress sites. For most of its history, that meant one thing: helping sites rank on Google. In October 2025, they launched SEO AI Plus, a product that tracks how brands appear inside ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Gemini. And that's a meaningful signal about where the industry is heading.

Alain Schlesser, Principal Architect at Yoast, joined Joe Walsh to unpack what they're seeing now that tracking is live, and what it means for marketing teams who are still struggling to adapt to an AI-first era.

What you’ll learn:

• Why AI answer engines make traditional SEO even more critical‚ not less, and why most teams have this backwards
• Why playing it safe with your content means AI systems may never know your brand exists
• What Yoast is actually seeing now that their AI visibility tracking is live
• Why blocking AI crawlers is a business decision you'll regret and what to do instead
• The inflection point coming in the next 12–18 months that most companies aren't measuring for

Monday Morning Action: Right-click your homepage and press View Page Source. Can you actually read your content? If not, AI can't either. Share what you find at prerender.io/podcast.

Episode resources:

• Learn more about Yoast: visit yoast.com
• Follow Alain on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schlessera/
• Find Alain online: https://www.alainschlesser.com/
• Share your Monday Morning Action results: prerender.io/podcast

Thanks for listening! Subscribe so you don't miss the next episode.

About the show:

Get Discovered is the podcast where AI and online discoverability collide. Season 2 is focused on how AI is changing where discovery happens, what actually gets surfaced, and why so many teams are realizing they don't have the visibility or control they thought they did.

New episodes drop weekly. Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen.

Most teams are treating AI discoverability as a separate problem from SEO. Peter Rota thinks that's exactly where they're going wrong.

In this episode of the Get Discovered podcast, Joe sits down with Peter Rota, a technical SEO expert and one of LinkedIn's most-followed voices in SEO with 80,000 followers. With 15 years in the field, Peter has lived through every major SEO shift, but this one is different.

In this episode, you'll learn about the fundamentals of technical SEO and why it's the missing piece of your AI search strategy.

What you'll learn:

- How the AI disruption compares to 15 years of previous SEO shifts (and why this one is different)

- Which SEO fundamentals matter most for AI discovery right now

- Why brand mentions in the right communities are fundamental

- The one thing Peter would want every marketer to take away from this conversation

Episode resources:

- Connect with Peter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterrota/

- Explore Peter's technical SEO services: https://peterrotaseo.com

Subscribe to the show:

- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0rzmrAPI063Y0LYpHipII8

- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/get-discovered-by-prerender-io/id1840604392

- Learn more: https://prerender.io/get-discovered-podcast/

About the show:

Get Discovered is the podcast where AI and online discoverability collide. Season 2 is focused on how AI is changing where discovery happens, what actually gets surfaced, and why so many teams are realizing they don't have the visibility or control they thought they did.

New episodes drop weekly. Subscribe on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you like to listen.

AI is changing where discovery happens, and most marketing teams don't have the visibility or control they think they do.

In this episode, we sit down with Elizabeth Thorn, Head of Marketing at Toggl, to talk about what it actually feels like to lead marketing when the rules of online discovery are being rewritten in real time. Elizabeth shares how Toggl has shifted away from high-volume content production, why SEO is no longer a standalone channel, and how her team is tracking AI-driven pipeline: 50% of Toggl's deals closed last quarter came from AI search.

Whether you're an SEO, a CMO, or just trying to figure out how your brand shows up in ChatGPT and Perplexity, this episode is packed with an honest, practical perspective.

What you'll learn:

• Why the "we control our message" assumption no longer holds in AI search
• How Toggl narrowed from 30–50 blog posts/month to a quality-first approach
• What "ecosystem marketing" actually looks like
• The metrics that are losing their meaning and what to track instead
• Why internal panic might be the biggest thing that gets worse before it gets better
• The misconception that AI search is the same as traditional SEO

References:

• Rand Fishkin & Michael King deep dive (Spark Toro x iPullRank): https://www.youtube.com/@sparktoro

• iPullRank (Michael King's agency): https://ipullrank.com

• John Henry Shirk / Growth Plays: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnhenryshirk

• Toggl: https://toggl.com
• Connect with Elizabeth on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabeththorn

Monday Morning Action:

1. Search for "[your brand name] + reviews" in Google. For example: “Toggl reviews.”
2. Ask the same query in your AI search tool of choice, such as Claude, ChatGPT, or Perplexity.
3. Compare what you find. Are the same review sources showing up in both places? (Pay close attention to this.) What's being said on each channel? Is it accurate and current?
4. The key question: If a buyer researches you in AI before ever clicking to your site, would they find the information you want them to see?

If anything surprises you about these results, reach out to us at prerender.io/podcast for a chance to be featured in a future episode.

Subscribe to the Get Discovered podcast on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

"Do your own primary research."

That's the key takeaway from Noah Greenberg, founder and CEO of Stacker, in this episode of Get Discovered.

Noah sits between brands and publishers, helping stories get distributed across the media ecosystem. He's been watching how discovery works at scale for years, well before Large Language Models hit the scene. And what he's seeing now is a fundamental shift in how visibility, attribution, and business outcomes connect (or don't).

What you'll learn:

- Why your content strategy from yesterday won't work tomorrow, and what to do instead

- What content actually gets cited by LLMs

- Why content isn't about conversions anymore

- How AI search removes the SEO moat that legacy brands had (and how this benefits new brands)

- Why brands are hiring journalists

- The biggest misconception about AI visibility

- What gets worse in the discoverability space before it gets better: why the next 12-18 months may be more chaotic than the last year

- And yes, why AI won't replace writers

Episode resources:

- About Stacker: https://stacker.com/

- About Noah: https://www.linkedin.com/in/noahg/

- The Great Decoupling - an article from Kevin Indig: https://www.growth-memo.com/p/the-great-decoupling

This week's Monday Morning Action:

Each week, we're sharing one action you can take to measure your brand's discoverability. This week's action: monitor your press.

1) Choose a recent piece of press written about your company—not something published on your own blog.

2) In your favourite LLM, search for the broader topic the article covers, without mentioning your brand. For example: “What matters most when choosing accounting software for startups.”

3) Look at the answers and note:

1. Whether your company is mentioned at all
2. Which sources the AI cites
3. Whether the original story you worked hard to place shows up or gets summarized away

4) Ask yourself:

• Is this how I’d want our perspective represented?
• What part of our story didn’t survive?

If anything surprises you about these results, we’d love to hear about it. Share what you noticed at prerender.io/podcast for a chance to be featured in a future episode.

About the show:

Get Discovered is a podcast from Prerender.io on AI and online discoverability. Subscribe on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. Learn more at prerender.io/podcast.

The rules of search are being rewritten in real-time... but most businesses are still playing by the old SEO playbook.

In the first episode of our second season, Klaus Schremser, co-founder of Otterly AI, joins host Joe Walsh to discuss the AI search challenges that brands are facing today.

Klaus helps companies understand how they show up in AI search platforms like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Google AI Overviews. He analyzes AI search visibility for hundreds of brands around the world, while navigating the same challenges with his own company, too.

What to expect from this episode:

• Why ranking #1 on Google doesn't guarantee AI visibility anymore
• Which SEO metrics are losing power
• Which metrics to focus on instead for AI search visibility
• How a $250 Wikipedia entry dramatically improved AI understanding of their brand
• Why 99% of AI search engagement never shows up in Google Analytics
• The attribution nightmare: tracking conversions in the AI search era
• Why JavaScript rendering is more critical than ever for discoverability
• What "agentic websites" are and why they might be the future

Key takeaway: "You can only change what you can measure. Start monitoring, optimize what you can control, and learn as you go."

Links:

• Connect with Klaus on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/klausmschremser/
• Try Otterly AI: https://otterly.ai/
• Read the full blog post: https://prerender.io/blog/podcast-klaus-schremser-otterlyai/
• Subscribe to the show: https://prerender.io/podcast/

Get Discovered is a podcast about AI and online discoverability, exploring how businesses can get found in the age of AI search.

Everyone has a different idea of what AI actually is.

In the season one finale of the Get Discovered podcast, Joe brings on Carli Van Stolk, producer of the show. Together, the two dissect what it's like starting a podcast for the first time, explore what's happening in season two, and ultimately, arrive at their shared definition of what AI really is.

What to expect from this episode:

• A candid chat between two colleagues navigating starting a podcast for the first time
• Key takeaways from season one
• An exploration of what AI really is, and how it ties into the cultural fabric of our current society

Resources from the episode:

• Find Joe on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joewalsh22/
• Find Carli on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/carli-van-stolk/

About Get Discovered

Get Discovered is a podcast from Prerender.io on AI, SEO, and online discoverability. We speak with business leaders, SEOs, and AI experts on how AI is impacting our world—and what you can do to keep up. Find us on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Learn more: prerender.io/get-discovered-podcast

Thanks for listening to the first season of the podcast with us. We'll see you soon for season two!

In this episode of Get Discovered, host Joe Walsh sits down with Belma Ibrahimović, Head of AI at saas.group, for a grounded and practical look at what AI can and can’t do today.

Belma shares a brief history of artificial intelligence, what LLMs are genuinely good at and what they arent, and how she thinks LLMs aren't real AI. The conversation also looks ahead to the future of AI, touching on robotics, real-world constraints, and what it will take for us to keep up.

What to expect from this episode:

• The real limitations of AI models and why they make certain mistakes
• How training data shapes model quality, behavior, and blind spots
• When to trust AI tools and when to verify their outputs
• Why basic AI literacy is becoming essential for every role, not just technical ones
• A look at future challenges, including robotics and real-world AI reliability

Resources from the episode:

• AI for Everyone (Coursera, Andrew Ng): https://www.coursera.org/learn/ai-for-everyone
• AI Engineering: Building AI Applications: https://www.amazon.com/AI-Engineering-Building-Applications-Foundation/dp/1098166302
• Homo Deus: A Brief History of Tomorrow: https://www.amazon.com/Homo-Deus-Brief-History-Tomorrow/dp/0062464310
• AI 2041 by Kai-Fu Lee: https://www.ai2041.com/
• Generative AI for Everyone: https://www.coursera.org/learn/generative-ai-for-everyone
• Connect with Belmont on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/belma-ibrahimovic/

About Get Discovered

Get Discovered is a podcast from Prerender.io on AI, SEO, and online discoverability. We speak with business leaders, SEOs, and AI experts on how AI is impacting our world—and what you can do to keep up. Find us on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Learn more: prerender.io/get-discovered-podcast

In this follow-up conversation, Fabio de Almeida returns to the Get Discovered podcast to dive deeper into the real, often overlooked costs of AI systems.

Beyond the hype and promise of efficiency, Fabio zeroes in on the data: how LLMs source it, what’s included (and excluded), and why it matters. He breaks down the financial, operational, and social implications that both users and companies should understand before scaling AI adoption.

Building on Part One, this episode moves from theory to practice, revealing what leaders don’t know they don’t know about data quality, model training, and the long-term sustainability of AI.

What to expect from this episode:

• The data behind AI systems
• What data LLMs are trained on
• How to manage and protect your personal data
• What to know about implementing safe, sustainable, and scalable AI systems for a healthier society

Resources from the episode:

• Rest of World: restofworld.org
• AI Snake Oil by Sayash Kapoor: https://www.aisnakeoil.com/
• Find Fabio on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fabiodealmeida9/

About Get Discovered:

Get Discovered is a podcast from Prerender.io on AI, SEO, and online discoverability. We speak with business leaders, SEOs, and AI experts on how AI is impacting our world—and what you can do to keep up. Find us on Spotify, Apple, YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Learn more: prerender.io/get-discovered-podcast