I sit down with Liz Muller, co-founder and CEO of Deep Fission, to discuss their underground micro nuclear reactors, decentralized energy, and solve the skyrocketing energy demands of the AI boom.

Liz breaks down the fundamentals of nuclear energy and shares her vision for building clean, safe, and cost-effective power sources that can be deployed in a decentralized way.

• Why nuclear is statistically the safest form of energy production we have
• The real problem with nuclear waste and a clear path to solving it
• Why France successfully went all-in on nuclear energy
• How Deep Fission's design could lower nuclear costs by 80%
• The serendipitous discovery behind their underground reactor concept
• The DOE pilot program and winning the energy race in the US
• How decentralized nuclear can power the AI data center boom

If you're interested in the future of energy, decentralization, or how we'll meet the energy needs of AI, you won't want to miss this conversation.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

01:59 Energy 101: What is Nuclear Fission?

03:02 Fission vs. Fusion Explained

03:35 Why Nuclear is The Only Clean & Reliable Power Source

04:39 Why Nuclear Is The Safest Energy We Have

06:10 Real Problem With Nuclear Waste

07:29 Public Perception & Cost Challenges

09:37 How Nuclear Waste Is Currently Stored

11:02 Why France Succeeded With Nuclear Power

11:56 Discovery Behind Deep Fission's Underground Reactors

17:52 Deep Fission’s Modular Design

21:07 Nuclear Fuel Supply Chain Explained

26:27 Building Reactors A Mile Underground

31:35 Gaining Community Acceptance for Nuclear Projects

33:42 DOE’s Pilot Program: A Fast Path To Build by 2026

39:39 Decentralization and Efficiency in Energy Production

42:15 Liz's Journey Into Nuclear Energy

44:37 How Deep Fission Uses AI To Build Reactors

48:19 Liz Predictions

50:45 Rapid Fire

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Liz’s Work:

• Deep Fission – [https://www.deepfission.com](https://www.deepfission.com/)
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethmuller/

Key Influences Mentioned:

• Luis Alvarez - https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/profile/luis-alvarez/

Subscribe & Follow:

• Join the Substack - ⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠
• Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

I sit down with Karol Hausman and Kevin Black of Physical Intelligence (Pi) to unpack how they are building a general-purpose robot brain so any robot can perform any task, anywhere. We talk about the convergence of AI, robotics, and automation and what it will take to give machines true physical intelligence.

• How Vision-Language-Action Models (VLAs) differ from other AI models.
• The "Taylor Swift" moment that showed the capabilities of VLAs
• Pi's strategy for open-sourcing models to accelerate research and development.
• The technical advancements in their Pi 0.5 model and "open world" generalization.
• The challenges of inference speed and context length
• Importance of low cost hardware
• Opportunities for non-technical founders in robotics

If you're interested in the future of general-purpose robots, physical AI, or the future of labor, then give this episode a listen/watch.

#robots #ai #decentralization

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

02:11 Vision-Language-Action Model (VLA) vs Vision-Language Model (VLM)

05:47 "Taylor Swift" Pivotal Moment In Robotics

08:45 Training Robots With Natural Language Prompts

10:55 Pi's "Action Expert" Architecture

14:07 Pi’s Open Source Strategy

17:16 Perspectives On Building Hardware

23:17 Creating An Ecosystem For Physical Intelligence

25:56 Pi 0.5 Model And Open World Generalization

33:23 Hitting Diminishing Returns On Task-Specific Data

36:21 Tackling Real-Time Inference Speed in Robotics

39:38 Improving Context Length

45:58 Importance of In-House Data Collection

48:46 Opportunities For Service Providers In Robotics

49:33 The Role of Hardware in Robotics

51:05 Dealing with Edge Cases And Data Diversity

53:27 Founding Story Of Pi

56:33 Kevin’s Journey To Pi

59:54 Opportunities For Non-Technical Founders In Robotics

01:02:08 Exploring Areas For Early Deployment

01:02:49 Rapid Fire Questions on Robotics

01:03:01 One Assumption AI Researchers Get Wrong

01:07:54 Closing

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Karol & Kevin’s Work:

• Pi (Physical Intelligence) Website – https://www.physicalintelligence.company/

• E-mail - [email protected]

• Follow Pi on X - https://x.com/Physical_int

• Kevin’s website - https://kevin.black/

• Follow Kevin on X - https://x.com/kvablack

• Karol’s website - https://karolhausman.github.io/

• Follow Karol on X - https://x.com/hausman_k

Key Influences and Resources Mentioned:

• Sergey Levine’s Substack - https://sergeylevine.substack.com/

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – ⁠⁠⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠⁠
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠⁠⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos⁠

Tiny and I discuss the main blockers to going direct at scale, why we must endure short-term pain for long-term gain, and highlight this past month’s video podcasts (links below).

#31 Dimitry Gershenson -Non-Dilutive Funding for Entrepreneurs; Capitalism’s Role In The New Economy

#32 Kuba Graczyk: 3D Printer Factories, AI & U.S. Shoe Production

#33 INSIDE GOING DIRECT: Capitalism in America vs Europe - Part 2

#34 Jamie Gull: From SpaceX to VC; Investing In The Next Industrial Revolution

#35 INSIDE GOING DIRECT: Gen Z’s Fight Against The Gatekeepers & Centralization

Reiss and I discuss how over-centralization is hollowing out many of our local economies and sense of connection.

We explore why rebuilding decentralized systems may be the only path to restoring both economic sovereignty and meaning in daily life. Topics include:

• The collapse of local food production through the story of One Mighty Mill who is trying to rebuild America’s organic flour supply chain from scratch
• The Mumbai food ecosystem — a thriving, decentralized market now under siege by delivery apps
• How “business-in-a-box” platforms and AI-assisted design can enable true decentralization
• Why tariffs, robotics, aging populations, and lower religiosity are going to shape the next era of production

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

00:35 Decentralizing the US Food System: One Mighty Mill

09:15 Mumbai's Decentralized Food System

13:43 Business in a Box Enabling Decentralization

20:27 Key Trends Driving Decentralization: Tariffs, Robotics & More

30:51 America’s Literacy Problem & Getting The Population To Care

31:55 Finding Sources Of Meaning As Family & Faith are Declining

34:37 Why Economic Opportunity Is King

42:37 Short-Term Pain For Long-Term Gain

45:09 VC’s Newest Muse: Vertical Integration & Trillion-Dollar Outcomes

47:53 Why We’ve Lost The Motivation To Fight For What To Believe In

53:59 All Humans Play Status Games

01:00:03 The Mickey Mouse Economy

01:03:40 Hidden Powers Of Decentralization

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Statistics:

• Stone Mills in the U.S. Stats - www.onemightymill.com
• 54% of adults in the U.S. have a literacy rate below a sixth grade level - https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/2024-2025-literacy-statistics#:~:text=21%25 of adults in the,were born outside the US.
• How the Global Religious Landscape Changed From 2010 to 2020 - https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/06/09/how-the-global-religious-landscape-changed-from-2010-to-2020/
• How has marriage in the US changed over time? - https://usafacts.org/articles/state-relationships-marriages-and-living-alone-us/
• The Experiences of U.S. Adults Who Don’t Have Children - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-experiences-of-u-s-adults-who-dont-have-children/
• Does proximity matter in shopping behavior? - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0965856425000990

Resources Mentioned:

• Book - The Status Game: On Human Life and How to Play it by Will Storr - https://www.thescienceofstorytelling.com/books
• Article - The Mickey Mouse Economy by Oren Cass - https://www.commonplace.org/p/our-mickey-mouse-economy
• The UK and India just signed a 'historic' free trade deal - https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/05/uk-india-free-trade-deal/
• Why Gen Z is Saying “No” to Romance and What it Means for Us All - https://firstthings.org/why-gen-z-is-saying-no-to-romance-and-what-it-means-for-us-all/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
• Reinventing Retail: How local kirana stores are adapting to India’s quick commerce boom - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/small-biz/sme-sector/reinventing-retail-how-local-kirana-stores-are-adapting-to-indias-quick-commerce-boom/articleshow/122082309.cms?utm_source=chatgpt.com&from=mdr
• The Protolabs Network Standard - https://www.hubs.com/partner-network/

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – ⁠⁠⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠⁠
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠⁠⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos⁠

I sit down with Gaurab Chakrabarti, co-founder & CEO of Solugen, to discuss how the company is building mini chemical plants across the U.S. — without petroleum. Solugen is living proof that decentralized, clean production is possible. They have bold ambitions to transform the $5 trillion chemical industry. In this episode, we discuss:

• Solugen’s mission to decarbonize the chemical industry
• Why chemicals are “the coolest thing on earth”
• How to break the distribution monopoly in chemicals
• Practical impacts of cleaner industrial processes
• Working with the Department of Defense and re-industrializing the US
• Why execution must be perfect to win customer trust

Enjoy!

#biotech #ai #decentralization

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

02:01 What’s Wrong With The Traditional Chemical Industry

06:36 Why True Innovation Is Required To Make Decentralization Work

08:11 Breaking Down Solugen's Innovative Way To Make Chemicals

12:32 How Solugen Chooses Chemicals To Make

13:30 Bioforge: A New Era In Chemical Manufacturing

16:46 Using Sugar vs Hydrocarbons To Make Chemicals

18:09 Chemical Product Mix

19:40 Cost To Build A Bioforge vs. Traditional Chemical Plant

21:21 Importance Of Owning Your Own Distribution

24:17 Solugen's Growth Plans

28:32 Cost of a Bioforge and DOE Loan Commitment

29:55 Government Investment & Re-industrialization

31:39 How Manufacturing Strengthens Community

35:08 Gaurab's Background and Founding Story

39:45 Difficulties Of Complete Vertical Integration

40:57 Tweet Breakdown: Physical Reality Outruns Code

47:58 Challenges To US Re-Industrialization

50:15 Rapid Fire

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Gaurab’s Work:

• Solugen – https://www.solugen.com
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/gaurabchakrabarti/

Key Influences and Resources Mentioned:

• NEPA - https://www.energy.gov/gdo/national-environmental-policy-act-nepa

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – ⁠⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

Jordan sits down with Reiss Jones to explore how centralization and decentralization shape our economies, cultures, and daily lives. From the food supply chain to dating apps, they unpack how power in many areas of life is extremely concentrated and what it means for Gen Z’s trying to navigate today’s world.

Topics include:

• What centralization really means
• How a handful of companies control most of the global food supply
• Why the “messy middle” of distribution blocks innovation
• The role of high-pressure processing (HPP) in decentralizing food systems
• How Gen Z faces stacked odds in housing, education, and dating
• Why entrepreneurship may be the only way forward
• Conserved norms of masculinity, femininity, and social expectations
• How Gen Z can take agency and build a different path

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

01:32 Defining Centralization

07:22 Realities Of Gen Z vs Millennials

09:36 10 Companies Control The Global Food Supply

13:35 Consolidation Is Extremely Powerful

17:20 America’s Broken Food System

19:27 High-Pressure Processing (HPP) Explained

23:55 Distributors Are The Gatekeepers Of Food In America

27:11 Can Decentralization Compete with Scale?

29:16 Technology Should Be The Enabler To Drive System Change

31:06 Centralization In Online The Dating Market

39:27 “Game on the Field” For Gen Z Today

44:06 Cards Are Stacked Against Young Men

47:47 Dark Feminism

50:32 Gen Z’s Reality: Housing, Debt, and Dating Struggles

55:37 Is Entrepreneurship Essential for Gen Z?

57:31 Closing

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Statistics and Sources

• The Food Supply: 10 Companies Own It All - https://www.good.is/this-infographic-shows-how-only-10-companies-own-all-the-worlds-food-brands#:~:text=So whether you're looking, you could hope to buy.
• Retail Spend in the U.S - https://www.statista.com/statistics/187439/share-of-e-commerce-sales-in-total-us-retail-sales-in-2010/
• Education & Housing from 2000 to 2022 - https://www.livenowfox.com/news/how-hard-is-afford-home-today-vs-25-years-ago

Resources Mentioned:

• Peter Thiel’s Critiques of Higher Education – https://thielfellowship.org
• Freya India’s Girls Substack – https://freyaindia.substack.com
• Diary of the CEO - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX?si=55c95868c9e044f0
• Dark feminism - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/29/welcome-to-the-femosphere-the-latest-dark-toxic-corner-of-the-internet-for-women

Subscribe & Follow Going Direct

• 📰 Join the Substack – ⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

Jordan sits down with Jamie Gull, founder and solo GP of Wave Function Ventures, to explore investing across aerospace, energy, and robotics to drive the next wave of re-industrialization.

Jamie is a former Space-X engineer who prescribes to the, “techno-industrialist” movement and invests in technical founders at the earliest stages. They unpack:

• Why venture capital is swinging back to hard assets
• Missing pieces holding back U.S. reindustrialization
• Why talent is still the biggest bottleneck in deep tech
• How storytelling can make or break a hard tech founder
• What it was like building reusable rockets at SpaceX
• The future of humanoid robotics and real-world AI training data

If you’re interested in deep tech, including the future of space, energy and robotics, then you will enjoy this conversation.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

02:08 Explaining Techno-Industrials

03:27 Shift In Venture Capital Towards Hard Tech

05:49 Missing Pieces Of U.S. Re-industrialization

10:24 Impact Of Protectionism On Innovation

15:19 Deep Tech Incrementalism vs. Breakthroughs

21:03 Aerospace & Space Investment Challenges

24:09 Jamie’s Views On The Drone Market

27:03 Energy As A #1 Investment Focus

31:44 Complexity Of Building Real-World Infrastructure

33:55 Lessons From Working at SpaceX

37:38 Deep Tech Founders Must Master The Art Of Storytelling

39:49 Jamie’s Background

45:09 Starting Wave Function Ventures

47:09 Robotics, Humanoids & Training Data

54:13 Rapid Fire

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Jamie’s Work:

• Wave Function Ventures - https://www.wavefunction.vc/
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-gull/
• X – https://x.com/jamiegull
• E-mail - [email protected]

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

Jordan sits down with Reiss Jones to discuss capitalism in America vs Europe. This is the second of a 2-part conversation where we discuss the European system in detail. We unpack:

• What values-led capitalism really means
• Why reality is messy
• Europe’s perfectionism vs. America’s “man in the arena” mentality
• The gray areas in European business vs. U.S.
• Why distribution, middlemen, and monopsonies keep costs high
• How decentralization and going direct can break the cycle
• How to align values with a startup’s incentive structure
• Why European founders often move to the U.S. for scale

#capitalism #decentralization #startups #AI

Follow Jordan on X: ⁠https://x.com/jrwolfe⁠

Follow Reiss on LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/reissjones/

Contact Reiss: ⁠[email protected]⁠

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

00:59 Defining Values-Led Capitalism

05:17 U.S. “Man in the Arena” vs. European Perfectionism

10:11 Reality Is Messy

12:48 Living Inside vs. Outside The System

17:01 Bureaucracy In France

21:54 Gray Areas Reinforce Bureaucracy

33:31 Values Breakdown: Europe vs US

36:13 Government-Led vs. Consumer-Led Capitalism

39:27 Market Control And Decentralization

41:17 The Role Of Middlemen & Decentralization

46:05 Future of Wholesale Distribution

48:34 80% of Global Retail Spend Is Still In-Store

54:10 European Startups: Values Over Economic Sustainability

58:07 European Startup Ecosystem

58:29 Is Entrepreneurship In Europe A Game For The Rich?

01:00:06 Final Takeaways: Stoicism & Realism

👉 Key References Mentioned:

• Teddy Roosevelt’s “Man in the Arena” speech - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A311CnTjfos
• “World Models” by Ha & Schmidhuber (2018) – https://arxiv.org/abs/1803.10122
• Statista: 80% of Global Retail Spend is Still In-Store - https://www.statista.com/statistics/534123/e-commerce-share-of-retail-sales-worldwide/

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663

• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos⁠⁠

Jordan sits down with Kuba Graczyk, founder & CEO of Koobz, to explore how AI, 3D printing, and automation are transforming footwear manufacturing.

Kuba has invented a one-step production process where they 3D-print an entire shoe in a single pass. Koobz is building printer farms around this invention to bring shoe production back to the U.S. Koobz is already working with some of the world’s biggest footwear brands as a Tier-1 supplier. Jordan and Kuba discuss:

• Why footwear hasn’t meaningfully innovated in decades
• How low-cost printers + AI unlocked Koobz’s breakthrough
• Why domestic shoe manufacturing is suddenly viable
• How re-industrializing America can boost everyday happiness
• The shift from “build a brand” to becoming a Tier-1 supplier

Enjoy!

#3dprinting #manufacturing #robots #ai #decentralization

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

03:23 Why Footwear Production Hasn’t Changed Much

12:28 Is 3D Printing About To Have It’s Chat-GPT Moment?

18:40 Using AI As A Solo-Founder

22:03 Koobz’ Mission: Bring Manufacturing Back To America

24:03 Kuba's Entrepreneurial Journey

30:04 Koobz’ Tech Stack

35:28 Printing An Entire Shoe In One Step

38:13 Koobz Biggest Challenge

40:01 Why Local Manufacturing Matters For Our Happiness

44:35 Growing Up In Poland & Journey To America

51:53 Becoming A Tier-One Supplier To The World’s Biggest Shoe Brands

57:29 Rapid Fire

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Kuba’s Work:

• Koobz– https://www.koo.bz/
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/kuba-graczyk/
• Buy your Koobz shoes at KitoWare Store – https://kitowares.online/collections/all

Subscribe & Follow:

• Join the Substack – https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe
• Listen on Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663

• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos⁠

Jordan sits down with Dimitry Gershenson, Co-Founder & CEO of Enduring Planet, to discuss the importance of non-dilutive funding for early-stage entrepreneurs building in the real economy. Dimitry believes every part of the economy, from cement to diapers, must change to build a clean, resilient future. They discuss:

• Why non-dilutive funding matters and current credit gap left by traditional finance
• Examples of what Enduring Planet finances and how they differ from banks
• Why financial literacy is a blind spot for many founders (and how to fix it)
• The challenges and opportunities of financing decentralized infrastructure projects

If you’re interested in climate tech, decentralized systems, or rethinking how we finance the future, check it out.

#capitalism #ai #entrepreneurship #climate

Follow Jordan on X:

https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Dimitry’s Work:

• Enduring Planet – https://www.enduringplanet.com
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/dimitrygershenson

Key Resources Mentioned:

• Calvert Impact Bonds – https://www.calvertimpactcapital.org

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

02:22 Defining Climate Technologies

03:58 Why Non-Dilutive Funding Matters

06:14 Credit Gap In Traditional Finance

13:09 Capital Formation And Fundraising Strategies

16:26 Issuing Green Bonds

19:17 Enduring Planet Financing Examples

25:38 Enduring Planet Lending Terms

27:18 Founders Lack Financial Literacy

31:28 Financing Decentralized Systems

34:26 Challenges In Financing Decentralized Projects

39:28 Why Founders Choose Enduring Planet

42:21 Early Lessons Learned45:16 Federal Funding Realities

47:44 Why Financial Literacy For Founders Is Important

49:12 Aligning Desired Outcomes With Business Model & Capital Strategy

53:26 Rapid Fire

Subscribe & Follow:

• Join the Substack – https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe

• Listen on Apple Podcasts – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos⁠