Going Direct Conversations

I sit down with scientist-turned-investor Jenny Kan, co-founder and general partner at Juniper VC, to talk about why bio-manufacturing is critical to making cleaner chemicals, materials, ingredients, and products—closer to home.

We discuss the shift from making things with petroleum to microbes, why decentralized production is key to national security and resilient supply chains, and the hard-won lessons from the last, “industrial biotech bubble.”

Topics we cover:

• What industrial biotech and synthetic biology actually mean
• How fermentation enables decentralized manufacturing
• Why the “lab-grown meat bubble” burst (and what we learned)
• How AI & robotics let industrial biotech startups earn revenue earlier
• The #1 mistake scientist-founders make
• Why the Pentagon now sees biotech as critical to national security

If you’re interested in synthetic biology, deep tech investing, or the future of decentralized, clean production, this one’s for you.

Recording date: October 26, 2025

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

01:18 Industrial Biotech Explained

03:53 Explaining Feedstock

05:25 Why We Must Replace Petroleum

06:59 Fermentation And Decentralizing Production

08:38 Explaining The Bio-Industrial Revolution

10:11 Juniper VC And Investing In Bio-Industrial Startups

11:07 Why The Biomanufacturing Bubble Keeps Popping

14:11 AI's Impact on Biology

16:43 Jenny’s Approach To Investing In Bio-manufacturing

19:26 Current, "Fat" In Our Supply Chains

23:12 Juniper’s Ecosystem Building Approach

26:15 Venture Capital Signaling & Flex

28:15 Jenny's Journey: From Scientist to Investor

32:15 Current Fundraising Environment

34:05 "Deep Truth" To Bio-manufacturing

35:11 Explaining The Importance Of A Techno-Economic Analysis

37:28 #1 Mistake Scientist-Founders Make

38:32 Understanding Consumer Behavior

41:27 Consumer Education Around Bio-manufacturing

44:11 Top Geographies For Bio-manufacturing

46:23 How We Accelerate the Bio-Industrial Revolution

53:12 Rapid Fire

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Jenny's Work:

• Juniper Website – https://www.junipervc.com/
• Contact – [email protected] & [email protected]
• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jennifer-kan/

Key Influences and Resources Mentioned:

• Dr. Frances Arnold (Nobel Prize, Chemistry 2018) - https://www.linkedin.com/in/frances-arnold-b4992313/
• One Mighty Mill (Jordan's decentralized flour example) - https://www.onemightymill.com/collections/fresh-milled-bread

Subscribe & Follow:

• Join the Substack – ⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠
• Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

Tiny and I break down the why life in America is starting to feel like Fee City — from exploding housing, healthcare, and education costs to the middlemen shaping prices behind the scenes. Links to this past month’s video podcast conversations are below:

That’s it for this month. Remember to go direct.

With love,

Jordan

Thanks for reading Going Direct! Subscribe for free to receive weekly conversations and new posts.

Reiss and I break down the 3 pillars that need to be built to decentralize the real economy. We discuss how AI, robotics, and the creator economy are all in the process of dismantling the middlemen that currently dominate our economy.

This is the foundational episode for understanding the Going Direct thesis on how technology, culture, and geopolitics are converging to make decentralization of the real world and direct exchange not just possible—but inevitable.

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

01:38 Why Decentralization Is Becoming Possible

03:50 3 Pillars Of Decentralizing The Real Economy

05:01 Pillar 1: Decentralized Production - The Heart

12:23 Pillar 2: Wholesale Distribution - From Gatekeeper to Connector

17:14 Pillar 3: Direct Marketing - Creator Economy

20:00 Power of Bricks-and-Mortar Retail

22:44 Wrapping Up The 3 Pillars Of Decentralization

24:23 "Business in a Box" Business Model

26:23 Who Will Own All Of The Robots?

28:24 Case Study: Why Independent Doctors In The US Are Disappearing

35:25 When Things Become Too Centralized

38:41 The 3 Macro Shifts Enabling Decentralization

40:01 Shift 1: Technological (AI, Robotics, Automation)

40:33 Shift 2: Cultural (Loss of Trust in Institutions)

43:08 Shift 3: Geopolitical (Sovereign Supply Chains)

50:35 AI, Robotics, & Automation Are Required For Decentralized Production

52:37 Why Robotics Is Clearly The Future

55:48 Wrap Up

Subscribe & Follow:

Join the Substack - ⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠

Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663

Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy - ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

I sit down with Liz Muller, co-founder and CEO of Deep Fission, to discuss their underground micro nuclear reactors, decentralized energy, and solve the skyrocketing energy demands of the AI boom.

Liz breaks down the fundamentals of nuclear energy and shares her vision for building clean, safe, and cost-effective power sources that can be deployed in a decentralized way.

• Why nuclear is statistically the safest form of energy production we have
• The real problem with nuclear waste and a clear path to solving it
• Why France successfully went all-in on nuclear energy
• How Deep Fission's design could lower nuclear costs by 80%
• The serendipitous discovery behind their underground reactor concept
• The DOE pilot program and winning the energy race in the US
• How decentralized nuclear can power the AI data center boom

If you're interested in the future of energy, decentralization, or how we'll meet the energy needs of AI, you won't want to miss this conversation.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

01:59 Energy 101: What is Nuclear Fission?

03:02 Fission vs. Fusion Explained

03:35 Why Nuclear is The Only Clean & Reliable Power Source

04:39 Why Nuclear Is The Safest Energy We Have

06:10 Real Problem With Nuclear Waste

07:29 Public Perception & Cost Challenges

09:37 How Nuclear Waste Is Currently Stored

11:02 Why France Succeeded With Nuclear Power

11:56 Discovery Behind Deep Fission's Underground Reactors

17:52 Deep Fission’s Modular Design

21:07 Nuclear Fuel Supply Chain Explained

26:27 Building Reactors A Mile Underground

31:35 Gaining Community Acceptance for Nuclear Projects

33:42 DOE’s Pilot Program: A Fast Path To Build by 2026

39:39 Decentralization and Efficiency in Energy Production

42:15 Liz's Journey Into Nuclear Energy

44:37 How Deep Fission Uses AI To Build Reactors

48:19 Liz Predictions

50:45 Rapid Fire

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Liz’s Work:

• Deep Fission – [https://www.deepfission.com](https://www.deepfission.com/)
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethmuller/

Key Influences Mentioned:

• Luis Alvarez - https://ahf.nuclearmuseum.org/ahf/profile/luis-alvarez/

Subscribe & Follow:

• Join the Substack - ⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠
• Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

I sit down with Karol Hausman and Kevin Black of Physical Intelligence (Pi) to unpack how they are building a general-purpose robot brain so any robot can perform any task, anywhere. We talk about the convergence of AI, robotics, and automation and what it will take to give machines true physical intelligence.

• How Vision-Language-Action Models (VLAs) differ from other AI models.
• The "Taylor Swift" moment that showed the capabilities of VLAs
• Pi's strategy for open-sourcing models to accelerate research and development.
• The technical advancements in their Pi 0.5 model and "open world" generalization.
• The challenges of inference speed and context length
• Importance of low cost hardware
• Opportunities for non-technical founders in robotics

If you're interested in the future of general-purpose robots, physical AI, or the future of labor, then give this episode a listen/watch.

#robots #ai #decentralization

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

02:11 Vision-Language-Action Model (VLA) vs Vision-Language Model (VLM)

05:47 "Taylor Swift" Pivotal Moment In Robotics

08:45 Training Robots With Natural Language Prompts

10:55 Pi's "Action Expert" Architecture

14:07 Pi’s Open Source Strategy

17:16 Perspectives On Building Hardware

23:17 Creating An Ecosystem For Physical Intelligence

25:56 Pi 0.5 Model And Open World Generalization

33:23 Hitting Diminishing Returns On Task-Specific Data

36:21 Tackling Real-Time Inference Speed in Robotics

39:38 Improving Context Length

45:58 Importance of In-House Data Collection

48:46 Opportunities For Service Providers In Robotics

49:33 The Role of Hardware in Robotics

51:05 Dealing with Edge Cases And Data Diversity

53:27 Founding Story Of Pi

56:33 Kevin’s Journey To Pi

59:54 Opportunities For Non-Technical Founders In Robotics

01:02:08 Exploring Areas For Early Deployment

01:02:49 Rapid Fire Questions on Robotics

01:03:01 One Assumption AI Researchers Get Wrong

01:07:54 Closing

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Karol & Kevin’s Work:

• Pi (Physical Intelligence) Website – https://www.physicalintelligence.company/

• E-mail - [email protected]

• Follow Pi on X - https://x.com/Physical_int

• Kevin’s website - https://kevin.black/

• Follow Kevin on X - https://x.com/kvablack

• Karol’s website - https://karolhausman.github.io/

• Follow Karol on X - https://x.com/hausman_k

Key Influences and Resources Mentioned:

• Sergey Levine’s Substack - https://sergeylevine.substack.com/

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – ⁠⁠⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠⁠
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠⁠⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos⁠

Tiny and I discuss the main blockers to going direct at scale, why we must endure short-term pain for long-term gain, and highlight this past month’s video podcasts (links below).

#31 Dimitry Gershenson -Non-Dilutive Funding for Entrepreneurs; Capitalism’s Role In The New Economy

#32 Kuba Graczyk: 3D Printer Factories, AI & U.S. Shoe Production

#33 INSIDE GOING DIRECT: Capitalism in America vs Europe - Part 2

#34 Jamie Gull: From SpaceX to VC; Investing In The Next Industrial Revolution

#35 INSIDE GOING DIRECT: Gen Z’s Fight Against The Gatekeepers & Centralization

Reiss and I discuss how over-centralization is hollowing out many of our local economies and sense of connection.

We explore why rebuilding decentralized systems may be the only path to restoring both economic sovereignty and meaning in daily life. Topics include:

• The collapse of local food production through the story of One Mighty Mill who is trying to rebuild America’s organic flour supply chain from scratch
• The Mumbai food ecosystem — a thriving, decentralized market now under siege by delivery apps
• How “business-in-a-box” platforms and AI-assisted design can enable true decentralization
• Why tariffs, robotics, aging populations, and lower religiosity are going to shape the next era of production

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

00:35 Decentralizing the US Food System: One Mighty Mill

09:15 Mumbai's Decentralized Food System

13:43 Business in a Box Enabling Decentralization

20:27 Key Trends Driving Decentralization: Tariffs, Robotics & More

30:51 America’s Literacy Problem & Getting The Population To Care

31:55 Finding Sources Of Meaning As Family & Faith are Declining

34:37 Why Economic Opportunity Is King

42:37 Short-Term Pain For Long-Term Gain

45:09 VC’s Newest Muse: Vertical Integration & Trillion-Dollar Outcomes

47:53 Why We’ve Lost The Motivation To Fight For What To Believe In

53:59 All Humans Play Status Games

01:00:03 The Mickey Mouse Economy

01:03:40 Hidden Powers Of Decentralization

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Statistics:

• Stone Mills in the U.S. Stats - www.onemightymill.com
• 54% of adults in the U.S. have a literacy rate below a sixth grade level - https://www.thenationalliteracyinstitute.com/2024-2025-literacy-statistics#:~:text=21%25 of adults in the,were born outside the US.
• How the Global Religious Landscape Changed From 2010 to 2020 - https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2025/06/09/how-the-global-religious-landscape-changed-from-2010-to-2020/
• How has marriage in the US changed over time? - https://usafacts.org/articles/state-relationships-marriages-and-living-alone-us/
• The Experiences of U.S. Adults Who Don’t Have Children - https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2024/07/25/the-experiences-of-u-s-adults-who-dont-have-children/
• Does proximity matter in shopping behavior? - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0965856425000990

Resources Mentioned:

• Book - The Status Game: On Human Life and How to Play it by Will Storr - https://www.thescienceofstorytelling.com/books
• Article - The Mickey Mouse Economy by Oren Cass - https://www.commonplace.org/p/our-mickey-mouse-economy
• The UK and India just signed a 'historic' free trade deal - https://www.weforum.org/stories/2025/05/uk-india-free-trade-deal/
• Why Gen Z is Saying “No” to Romance and What it Means for Us All - https://firstthings.org/why-gen-z-is-saying-no-to-romance-and-what-it-means-for-us-all/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
• Reinventing Retail: How local kirana stores are adapting to India’s quick commerce boom - https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/small-biz/sme-sector/reinventing-retail-how-local-kirana-stores-are-adapting-to-indias-quick-commerce-boom/articleshow/122082309.cms?utm_source=chatgpt.com&from=mdr
• The Protolabs Network Standard - https://www.hubs.com/partner-network/

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – ⁠⁠⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠⁠
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠⁠⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos⁠

I sit down with Gaurab Chakrabarti, co-founder & CEO of Solugen, to discuss how the company is building mini chemical plants across the U.S. — without petroleum. Solugen is living proof that decentralized, clean production is possible. They have bold ambitions to transform the $5 trillion chemical industry. In this episode, we discuss:

• Solugen’s mission to decarbonize the chemical industry
• Why chemicals are “the coolest thing on earth”
• How to break the distribution monopoly in chemicals
• Practical impacts of cleaner industrial processes
• Working with the Department of Defense and re-industrializing the US
• Why execution must be perfect to win customer trust

Enjoy!

#biotech #ai #decentralization

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

02:01 What’s Wrong With The Traditional Chemical Industry

06:36 Why True Innovation Is Required To Make Decentralization Work

08:11 Breaking Down Solugen's Innovative Way To Make Chemicals

12:32 How Solugen Chooses Chemicals To Make

13:30 Bioforge: A New Era In Chemical Manufacturing

16:46 Using Sugar vs Hydrocarbons To Make Chemicals

18:09 Chemical Product Mix

19:40 Cost To Build A Bioforge vs. Traditional Chemical Plant

21:21 Importance Of Owning Your Own Distribution

24:17 Solugen's Growth Plans

28:32 Cost of a Bioforge and DOE Loan Commitment

29:55 Government Investment & Re-industrialization

31:39 How Manufacturing Strengthens Community

35:08 Gaurab's Background and Founding Story

39:45 Difficulties Of Complete Vertical Integration

40:57 Tweet Breakdown: Physical Reality Outruns Code

47:58 Challenges To US Re-Industrialization

50:15 Rapid Fire

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Gaurab’s Work:

• Solugen – https://www.solugen.com
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/gaurabchakrabarti/

Key Influences and Resources Mentioned:

• NEPA - https://www.energy.gov/gdo/national-environmental-policy-act-nepa

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – ⁠⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

Jordan sits down with Reiss Jones to explore how centralization and decentralization shape our economies, cultures, and daily lives. From the food supply chain to dating apps, they unpack how power in many areas of life is extremely concentrated and what it means for Gen Z’s trying to navigate today’s world.

Topics include:

• What centralization really means
• How a handful of companies control most of the global food supply
• Why the “messy middle” of distribution blocks innovation
• The role of high-pressure processing (HPP) in decentralizing food systems
• How Gen Z faces stacked odds in housing, education, and dating
• Why entrepreneurship may be the only way forward
• Conserved norms of masculinity, femininity, and social expectations
• How Gen Z can take agency and build a different path

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

01:32 Defining Centralization

07:22 Realities Of Gen Z vs Millennials

09:36 10 Companies Control The Global Food Supply

13:35 Consolidation Is Extremely Powerful

17:20 America’s Broken Food System

19:27 High-Pressure Processing (HPP) Explained

23:55 Distributors Are The Gatekeepers Of Food In America

27:11 Can Decentralization Compete with Scale?

29:16 Technology Should Be The Enabler To Drive System Change

31:06 Centralization In Online The Dating Market

39:27 “Game on the Field” For Gen Z Today

44:06 Cards Are Stacked Against Young Men

47:47 Dark Feminism

50:32 Gen Z’s Reality: Housing, Debt, and Dating Struggles

55:37 Is Entrepreneurship Essential for Gen Z?

57:31 Closing

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Statistics and Sources

• The Food Supply: 10 Companies Own It All - https://www.good.is/this-infographic-shows-how-only-10-companies-own-all-the-worlds-food-brands#:~:text=So whether you're looking, you could hope to buy.
• Retail Spend in the U.S - https://www.statista.com/statistics/187439/share-of-e-commerce-sales-in-total-us-retail-sales-in-2010/
• Education & Housing from 2000 to 2022 - https://www.livenowfox.com/news/how-hard-is-afford-home-today-vs-25-years-ago

Resources Mentioned:

• Peter Thiel’s Critiques of Higher Education – https://thielfellowship.org
• Freya India’s Girls Substack – https://freyaindia.substack.com
• Diary of the CEO - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT7XGuZSzAMjoNWlX?si=55c95868c9e044f0
• Dark feminism - https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/29/welcome-to-the-femosphere-the-latest-dark-toxic-corner-of-the-internet-for-women

Subscribe & Follow Going Direct

• 📰 Join the Substack – ⁠https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos

Jordan sits down with Jamie Gull, founder and solo GP of Wave Function Ventures, to explore investing across aerospace, energy, and robotics to drive the next wave of re-industrialization.

Jamie is a former Space-X engineer who prescribes to the, “techno-industrialist” movement and invests in technical founders at the earliest stages. They unpack:

• Why venture capital is swinging back to hard assets
• Missing pieces holding back U.S. reindustrialization
• Why talent is still the biggest bottleneck in deep tech
• How storytelling can make or break a hard tech founder
• What it was like building reusable rockets at SpaceX
• The future of humanoid robotics and real-world AI training data

If you’re interested in deep tech, including the future of space, energy and robotics, then you will enjoy this conversation.

Chapters:

00:00 Introduction

02:08 Explaining Techno-Industrials

03:27 Shift In Venture Capital Towards Hard Tech

05:49 Missing Pieces Of U.S. Re-industrialization

10:24 Impact Of Protectionism On Innovation

15:19 Deep Tech Incrementalism vs. Breakthroughs

21:03 Aerospace & Space Investment Challenges

24:09 Jamie’s Views On The Drone Market

27:03 Energy As A #1 Investment Focus

31:44 Complexity Of Building Real-World Infrastructure

33:55 Lessons From Working at SpaceX

37:38 Deep Tech Founders Must Master The Art Of Storytelling

39:49 Jamie’s Background

45:09 Starting Wave Function Ventures

47:09 Robotics, Humanoids & Training Data

54:13 Rapid Fire

Follow Jordan on X: https://x.com/jrwolfe

Links to Jamie’s Work:

• Wave Function Ventures - https://www.wavefunction.vc/
• LinkedIn – https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamie-gull/
• X – https://x.com/jamiegull
• E-mail - [email protected]

Subscribe & Follow:

• 📰 Join the Substack – https://goingdirect.substack.com/subscribe⁠
• 🎧 Listen on Listen on Apple Podcasts – ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/going-direct-conversations/id1800505663⁠
• Subscribe to YouTube for more deep dives on decentralization, robots, and the real economy – ⁠⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@goingdirect_/videos