S‍eason 3 | Episode 4 | Good Fire Podcast

Title: Accomplices: Special Episode with Alex Zahara

In this episode of the Good Fire Podcast, hosts Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff sit down with Alex Zahara to talk about how a non-Indigenous person can be a good ally and accomplice to Indigenous peoples in Canada.

Quotes

 17.44 – 17.52:“This is actually the first time in Canadian history when the Notwithstanding Clause was used to suppress the charter rights of children.” 

22.42 - 22.48:“These attacks… on trans rights are also an attack on Indigenous rights.” 

1.14.54 - 1.15.10:“When I’m thinking about how do I be a settler and how do I… settle, I do think that there are ways of… living together in a way that doesn’t emphasize conquest and that just emphasizes… sharing.” 

Takeaways

The gathering place (06.06)

Alex Zahara is a non-Indigenous researcher in Kistahpinanihk, which means the Great Meeting Place, also known as Prince Albert in Treaty 6 territory, the Metis Homeland and the Homeland of the Dakota. He works out of the Northern Forestry Centre as a fire research scientist for the Canadian Forest Service and believes his location informs his research approach. Prince Albert, located along the northern Saskatchewan River is where prairies and agricultural land in the south roll into boreal forests in the north, giving summer thunderstorms and fire, and has been home to many First Nations.

A place of community (10.30)

As a settler, Alex often thinks about what his role is in Indigenous fire stewardship. “I have a lot of obligations to people who have been here before and currently, and… [I am] also folded into different agreements that were already in place”, he notes. As a gay man, he also thinks about others in the queer community, so being a settler for him means centering two-spirit and trans people, especially in the light of recent anti-trans legislation. As a researcher, he wrestles with accusations on teachings in the light of parent rights, with only some gender ideologies being aligned with inherent human and treaty rights.

Misgendering and outing (13.09)

Alex explains how the legislation came to be, when Planned Parenthood pamphlets were left in a Saskatchewan classroom containing inappropriate information. The following week, the government pot forth new legislation banning third parties from teaching sex education and restricting gender pronoun use, making it mandatory for people under 16 to get parental consent to go by a different gender or pronoun in the classroom. Without parental consent, teachers and classmates are then forced to misgender, which leads to negative health outcomes, while an outing could be dangerous for some. 

Taking away children’s rights (15.34) 

The University of Regina Pride Center requested an injunction on the legislation that required gender-diverse youth to either remain misgendered or be outed, since it is likely to cause irreparable harm. While it was first accepted, Saskatchewan used the Notwithstanding Clause, allowing them to overwrite certain aspects of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This clause was added when the constitution was created since some provinces wouldn’t sign up for it without one. Alberta followed and has proposed medical restrictions too. Prince Albert, where Alex is from, is 50% Indigenous, including 2-Spirit people.

Violation of 2-Spirit Rights (19.25)

Alex highlights that being 2-Spirit is an Indigenous right, so the usage of the Notwithstanding Clause is being disputed because it cannot be used to suppress Indigenous rights. Treaty agreements, especially in Treaty 6, include the right to healthcare, which includes having access to medical support. The provincial government is also obligated to upload the inherent rights to cultural expression. However, the gender ideology being professed by the government is a binary nuclear family, which doesn’t align with Indigenous cultural worldviews. 

Reclaiming Indigenous culture (21.37)

Alex finds it heartening going to Pride celebrations and observing Indigenous youth exercise their right to be 2-Spirit peoples, “which is particularly important after residential schools, where… rigid gender ideologies were enforced on people”. He acknowledges that folks from Prince Albert Pride have been working hard to put statements out and organize activities for advocacy, emphasizing how this is an Indigenous rights issue along with being a queer rights issue. He laments that the cis-white men understanding of queer rights is limited to marriage, whereas there are more issues underneath.

Cultural safety (25.26)

Alex mentions the work done by Amy on cultural safety in Indigenous fire management, particularly trans people. Many trans people have stopped being firefighters because the firefighting culture lacks acceptance. So, he emphasizes inclusivity and creating safe spaces for queer and trans folk in all the work he does. However, in a province where nobody’s identity is affirmed till they are over 16, trans adults in fire management “have to end up starting a few steps back, because they didn’t get to be who they were, and come into themselves until much later”.

Accomplices vs. Allies (30.35)

Alex was introduced to an article, Accomplices Not Allies, by his PhD advisors, which influenced how he thought about research. He read it often to understand the differences between allies and accomplices. For him, an accomplice is willing to lose privilege and access to power. He compares that to how straight people are expected to walk in front of a Pride Parade, protecting the crowds behind them. He talks about Audrea Simpson’s politics of refusal, where Indigenous Nations insist on the Integrity of self-governance and refuse citizenship of the colonial state.

Truth and reconciliation (36.43)

Alex encourages settlers to not only learn the truth about Canada’s history but also do the work on reconciling. He mentions how the Muskrats to Moose Project, which both Amy and Alex are involved with, is working towards this cause. They try to bring different groups of people together to learn about the importance of fire on the land in supporting the ecosystem, cultural landscape and economies. A large invasive king grass species grows very tall and does not provide a good home for muskrats, so burning helps maintain the habitat to sustain this species.

Accomplice as an identity (39.52)

Alex narrates some incidents at a youth camp in Saskatchewan, where they had to do a burn in March since they aren’t allowed to do so after April 1. Some of the discussions that took place were about reconciliation fires and how they should exist in a particular way within the government legislation. He emphasizes how being an accomplice means helping ensure that the settler state is not the one that makes decisions on Indigenous ways of being. Taking on ‘accomplice’ as an identity means you are always thinking about what you can do. He also discusses how the let-burn policy is critiqued by Indigenous leadership. 

The Indigenous Invitation (45.52)

Alex began his research by wanting to research Nunavut but returned to Prince Albert when he felt a calling to work for his community. He believes being a settler means planning to be here a long time, which opens up different possibilities. He wanted to study the settler state government and learned to only step in when invited by Indigenous communities. He lists the values that are managed for in fire response – human life, community infrastructure, industrial infrastructure and timber. Unfortunately, Indigenous peoples are not consulted when deciding which fires to put out. 

Indigenous fire management (51.13)

Alex points out that saying ‘fire is caused through natural factors’ is another way in which Indigenous erasure takes place, since there has been a history of Indigenous people being involved in stewarding the fire. He believes it is important to have open lines of communication with Indigenous Nations to decide the values in fire management, and to respect traditional Indigenous knowledge and its role in helping fight climate change. Cultural sites should also be included in the list of values to manage for in a fire, whereas environmental values are instructed by the Ministry of Environment to the fire protection agency.

Building a Tribal Council (59.02)

Alex talks about how he authored his paper, Breathing Fire into Landscapes, inspired by the Prince Albert Grand Council (PAGC) task force report. He began working in an official capacity with PAGC in 2020 with a project to create a Tribal Council to document traditional ecological knowledge perspectives related to fire. There has been a lot of youth involvement for community development as a part of this project. The PAGC had to edit their job descriptions to appeal to youth who wanted to improve fire for their community. They received 65 applications from people with varying skills.

Reciprocity, Ecology and Diversity in Fire (1.04.38)

Alex has recently transitioned into a position of Research Scientist with the Canadian Forest Service. He is grateful to Amy and David Young for helping him formulate his position on Indigenous fire stewardship. REDFire Lab, which stands for Reciprocity, Ecology and Diversity in Fire, is a joint venture of the three to champion community-based projects. The plan is to collaborate with different First Nations and help them collaborate with the federal government if they are interested in providing direct recommendations on how to improve fire response so that projects can develop in ways that serve the community.

Indigenous Consultation (1.09.31)

One of the first projects Alex wants to work on is evaluating the Alberta and Saskatchewan federal-to-provincial government natural resource transfer agreement of 1930. Indigenous Nations were not consulted in making this agreement, despite treaty and non-treaty agreements being in place. That is why many Indigenous Nations don’t recognize the provinces as “having the proper authority to assert their jurisdiction”. This impacted present-day fire management and the relationships between fire response agencies and First Nations, with some First Nations taking legal action against the agreement. 

“You can’t move forward without the truth” (1.13.03)

Alex emphasizes that evaluating the truth of the past is important to address the issues of the present. He laments that settler colonialism involved settler entitlement to Indigenous lands for settler goals. “That entitlement to go on and do your thing despite whatever other people want… is kind of the history of Canada in some ways”, he notes. He talks about the role of conquest and racism in colonization, which manifested itself in the creation of Indian Residential Schools and the denial of legal aid to Indigenous people when the natural resource transfer agreement was made. 

Ceding authority and power (1.15.11)

Alex explains how due to systemic bias, people need to think about how they can cede authority over decision-making in order to be a good accomplice. He shares the example of a community in southern Saskatchewan whose farmers sent a petition to the government demanding more land and agricultural support for the First Nation next to them, even if they had to give up some of their land. The Treaty Land Sharing Network is a group of farmers who put up Treaty Land Sharing signs on their farms to do away with the requirement of permission before Indigenous farmers engage in traditional harvesting practices.

Indigenous information from Indigenous sources (1.17.36)

Alex credits Amy with helping him become a better ally and accomplice, especially with how she cites only Indigenous sources in her papers. He encourages listeners to think about their research techniques and the diversity of the sources they cite in their papers. There is a lot of information available by Indigenous sources and those are the ones that should be sought, read and cited. Sometimes, the information may not have been made public due to important reasons, he adds, but it is important not to assume that the information does not exist.

Resources

Alex Zahara

UR Pride Center Case

Accomplices Not Allies: Abolishing the Ally Industrial Complex

Pollution is Colonialism

Mohawk Interruptus

We Are Fire

Breathing Fire into Landscapes that Burn: Wildfire Management in a Time of Alterlife

Otherwise Worlds: Against Settler Colonialism and Anti-Blackness by Tiffany Lethabo King

Treaty Land Sharing Network

Centering Indigenous voices: The role of fire in the Boreal Forest of North America

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

If you liked this episode, please rate and review Good Fire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Accomplices: Special Episode with Alex Zahara

Episode highlight

In this episode, Alex Zahara talks about how a non-Indigenous person can be a good ally and accomplice to Indigenous peoples in Canada.

Resources

Alex Zahara

UR Pride Center Case

Accomplices Not Allies: Abolishing the Ally Industrial Complex

Pollution is Colonialism

Mohawk Interruptus

We Are Fire

Natasha Caverley

Breathing Fire into Landscapes that Burn: Wildfire Management in a Time of Alterlife

Otherwise Worlds: Against Settler Colonialism and Anti-Blackness by Tiffany Lethabo King

Treaty Land Sharing Network

Centering Indigenous voices: The role of fire in the Boreal Forest of North America

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Quotes

 17.44 – 17.52: “This is actually the first time in Canadian history when the Notwithstanding Clause was used to suppress the charter rights of children.” 

22.42 - 22.48: “These attacks… on trans rights are also an attack on Indigenous rights.” 

1.14.54 - 1.15.10: “When I’m thinking about how do I be a settler and how do I… settle, I do think that there are ways of… living together in a way that doesn’t emphasize conquest and that just emphasizes… sharing.” 

Takeaways

The gathering place (06.06)

Alex Zahara is a non-Indigenous researcher in Kistahpinanihk, which means the Great Meeting Place, also known as Prince Albert in Treaty 6 territory, the Metis Homeland and the Homeland of the Dakota. He works out of the Northern Forestry Centre as a fire research scientist for the Canadian Forest Service and believes his location informs his research approach. Prince Albert, located along the northern Saskatchewan River is where prairies and agricultural land in the south roll into boreal forests in the north, giving summer thunderstorms and fire, and has been home to many First Nations.

A place of community (10.30)

As a settler, Alex often thinks about what his role is in Indigenous fire stewardship. “I have a lot of obligations to people who have been here before and currently, and… [I am] also folded into different agreements that were already in place”, he notes. As a gay man, he also thinks about others in the queer community, so being a settler for him means centering two-spirit and trans people, especially in the light of recent anti-trans legislation. As a researcher, he wrestles with accusations on teachings in the light of parent rights, with only some gender ideologies being aligned with inherent human and treaty rights.

Misgendering and outing (13.09)

Alex explains how the legislation came to be, when Planned Parenthood pamphlets were left in a Saskatchewan classroom containing inappropriate information. The following week, the government pot forth new legislation banning third parties from teaching sex education and restricting gender pronoun use, making it mandatory for people under 16 to get parental consent to go by a different gender or pronoun in the classroom. Without parental consent, teachers and classmates are then forced to misgender, which leads to negative health outcomes, while an outing could be dangerous for some. 

Taking away children’s rights (15.34) 

The University of Regina Pride Center requested an injunction on the legislation that required gender-diverse youth to either remain misgendered or be outed, since it is likely to cause irreparable harm. While it was first accepted, Saskatchewan used the Notwithstanding Clause, allowing them to overwrite certain aspects of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. This clause was added when the constitution was created since some provinces wouldn’t sign up for it without one. Alberta followed and has proposed medical restrictions too. Prince Albert, where Alex is from, is 50% Indigenous, including 2-Spirit people.

Violation of 2-Spirit Rights (19.25)

Alex highlights that being 2-Spirit is an Indigenous right, so the usage of the Notwithstanding Clause is being disputed because it cannot be used to suppress Indigenous rights. Treaty agreements, especially in Treaty 6, include the right to healthcare, which includes having access to medical support. The provincial government is also obligated to upload the inherent rights to cultural expression. However, the gender ideology being professed by the government is a binary nuclear family, which doesn’t align with Indigenous cultural worldviews. 

Reclaiming Indigenous culture (21.37)

Alex finds it heartening going to Pride celebrations and observing Indigenous youth exercise their right to be 2-Spirit peoples, “which is particularly important after residential schools, where… rigid gender ideologies were enforced on people”. He acknowledges that folks from Prince Albert Pride have been working hard to put statements out and organize activities for advocacy, emphasizing how this is an Indigenous rights issue along with being a queer rights issue. He laments that the cis-white men understanding of queer rights is limited to marriage, whereas there are more issues underneath.

Cultural safety (25.26)

Alex mentions the work done by Amy on cultural safety in Indigenous fire management, particularly trans people. Many trans people have stopped being firefighters because the firefighting culture lacks acceptance. So, he emphasizes inclusivity and creating safe spaces for queer and trans folk in all the work he does. However, in a province where nobody’s identity is affirmed till they are over 16, trans adults in fire management “have to end up starting a few steps back, because they didn’t get to be who they were, and come into themselves until much later”.

Accomplices vs. Allies (30.35)

Alex was introduced to an article, Accomplices Not Allies, by his PhD advisors, which influenced how he thought about research. He read it often to understand the differences between allies and accomplices. For him, an accomplice is willing to lose privilege and access to power. He compares that to how straight people are expected to walk in front of a Pride Parade, protecting the crowds behind them. He talks about Audrea Simpson’s politics of refusal, where Indigenous Nations insist on the Integrity of self-governance and refuse citizenship of the colonial state.

Truth and reconciliation (36.43)

Alex encourages settlers to not only learn the truth about Canada’s history but also do the work on reconciling. He mentions how the Muskrats to Moose Project, which both Amy and Alex are involved with, is working towards this cause. They try to bring different groups of people together to learn about the importance of fire on the land in supporting the ecosystem, cultural landscape and economies. A large invasive king grass species grows very tall and does not provide a good home for muskrats, so burning helps maintain the habitat to sustain this species.

Accomplice as an identity (39.52)

Alex narrates some incidents at a youth camp in Saskatchewan, where they had to do a burn in March since they aren’t allowed to do so after April 1. Some of the discussions that took place were about reconciliation fires and how they should exist in a particular way within the government legislation. He emphasizes how being an accomplice means helping ensure that the settler state is not the one that makes decisions on Indigenous ways of being. Taking on ‘accomplice’ as an identity means you are always thinking about what you can do. He also discusses how the let-burn policy is critiqued by Indigenous leadership. 

The Indigenous Invitation (45.52)

Alex began his research by wanting to research Nunavut but returned to Prince Albert when he felt a calling to work for his community. He believes being a settler means planning to be here a long time, which opens up different possibilities. He wanted to study the settler state government and learned to only step in when invited by Indigenous communities. He lists the values that are managed for in fire response – human life, community infrastructure, industrial infrastructure and timber. Unfortunately, Indigenous peoples are not consulted when deciding which fires to put out. 

Indigenous fire management (51.13)

Alex points out that saying ‘fire is caused through natural factors’ is another way in which Indigenous erasure takes place, since there has been a history of Indigenous people being involved in stewarding the fire. He believes it is important to have open lines of communication with Indigenous Nations to decide the values in fire management, and to respect traditional Indigenous knowledge and its role in helping fight climate change. Cultural sites should also be included in the list of values to manage for in a fire, whereas environmental values are instructed by the Ministry of Environment to the fire protection agency.

Building a Tribal Council (59.02)

Alex talks about how he authored his paper, Breathing Fire into Landscapes, inspired by the Prince Albert Grand Council (PAGC) task force report. He began working in an official capacity with PAGC in 2020 with a project to create a Tribal Council to document traditional ecological knowledge perspectives related to fire. There has been a lot of youth involvement for community development as a part of this project. The PAGC had to edit their job descriptions to appeal to youth who wanted to improve fire for their community. They received 65 applications from people with varying skills.

Reciprocity, Ecology and Diversity in Fire (1.04.38)

Alex has recently transitioned into a position of Research Scientist with the Canadian Forest Service. He is grateful to Amy and David Young for helping him formulate his position on Indigenous fire stewardship. REDFire Lab, which stands for Reciprocity, Ecology and Diversity in Fire, is a joint venture of the three to champion community-based projects. The plan is to collaborate with different First Nations and help them collaborate with the federal government if they are interested in providing direct recommendations on how to improve fire response so that projects can develop in ways that serve the community.

Indigenous Consultation (1.09.31)

One of the first projects Alex wants to work on is evaluating the Alberta and Saskatchewan federal-to-provincial government natural resource transfer agreement of 1930. Indigenous Nations were not consulted in making this agreement, despite treaty and non-treaty agreements being in place. That is why many Indigenous Nations don’t recognize the provinces as “having the proper authority to assert their jurisdiction”. This impacted present-day fire management and the relationships between fire response agencies and First Nations, with some First Nations taking legal action against the agreement. 

“You can’t move forward without the truth” (1.13.03)

Alex emphasizes that evaluating the truth of the past is important to address the issues of the present. He laments that settler colonialism involved settler entitlement to Indigenous lands for settler goals. “That entitlement to go on and do your thing despite whatever other people want… is kind of the history of Canada in some ways”, he notes. He talks about the role of conquest and racism in colonization, which manifested itself in the creation of Indian Residential Schools and the denial of legal aid to Indigenous people when the natural resource transfer agreement was made. 

Ceding authority and power (1.15.11)

Alex explains how due to systemic bias, people need to think about how they can cede authority over decision-making in order to be a good accomplice. He shares the example of a community in southern Saskatchewan whose farmers sent a petition to the government demanding more land and agricultural support for the First Nation next to them, even if they had to give up some of their land. The Treaty Land Sharing Network is a group of farmers who put up Treaty Land Sharing signs on their farms to do away with the requirement of permission before Indigenous farmers engage in traditional harvesting practices.

Indigenous information from Indigenous sources (1.17.36)

Alex credits Amy with helping him become a better ally and accomplice, especially with how she cites only Indigenous sources in her papers. He encourages listeners to think about their research techniques and the diversity of the sources they cite in their papers. There is a lot of information available by Indigenous sources and those are the ones that should be sought, read and cited. Sometimes, the information may not have been made public due to important reasons, he adds, but it is important not to assume that the information does not exist.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

S‍eason 3 | Episode 4 | Good Fire Podcast

Title: Existence Is Resistance with Tiffany Joseph

In this episode of the Good Fire Podcast, hosts Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff sit down with Tiffany Joseph to talk about native Indigenous plants and their ability to heal the ecosystem.

Quotes

13.19 - 13.41:“Anytime we are on the land, you have to have good thoughts and feelings, so anytime you light a fire, you have to be in that prayerful mindset, and being in a prayerful mindset really means having that abundance of positivity within your heart and your mind.”

21.54 - 22.27:“Settlers, they are hungry for culture basically and really they need to find their own roots… they have to… trace their English or Celtic origins, whatever it is, and connect with that, so I found that eagerness to work with fire with us… came from… a hungry place of not having their own cultures.”

Takeaways

Camera Lady (03.12)

Tiffany is of Sḵx̱wu7mesh and W̱SÁNEĆ ancestry. Coast Salish Nations' protocol is to introduce their family when they introduce themselves to help others connect with them easily. She finds it important to introduce both her parents and grandparents, as well as her children, because while her parents and grandparents are the reason she came into the world, her children are the reason she stays. Her Indigenous nickname, ŚW̱, XELOSELWET, stands for ‘camera lady’, and she has a certificate in Indigenous independent filmmaking from Capilano University.

A field of blue (05.41)

Tiffany began learning about Indigenous plants and restoration work in 2014 when she participated in the ‘Growing Our Futures’ program in SȾÁUTW̱. All the Indigenous participants recognized those plants as their Indigenous medicines, and reflect fondly on being able to learn about them. She began doing land restoration in 2015 and is focused on that work, specifically camas, whose bright blue colour made a field look like a sea to a visiting botanist. Camas is a food staple whose meadows used to cover the entire landscape from Beecher Bay First Nation to Southern Vancouver Island.

Indigenous territory (08.49)

Tiffany laments that colonizers looked at the rich fertile lands, which was tended to make abundant meadows of camas, as theirs to steal. They operated under the ‘Terra nullius’ mindset wherein land was considered unoccupied unless occupied by a Christian even though there were thousands of Indigenous people living here. They considered the land wild even though the meadows were tended with controlled burns. The mighty oak used to be a companion plant to camas which grew stronger with controlled burns, and the falling branches and leaves fertilized the soil for the camas.

“We are all connected” (11.24)

Tiffany explains that the Indigenous ancestors learned that by burning the mighty oak leaves, their high acidity could be transformed into proper nutrients needed for the soil, which was clay. While the colonizers believed nothing could grow in the clay, the Indigenous peoples “grew enough camas to make it look like an ocean” and had the greatest biodiversity of any ecosystem in BC. She emphasizes the importance of having good thoughts and feelings, how having a prayerful mindset gives rise to abundant outcomes, and how everything is connected - the mind, heart, and all kinds of people.

Fire is life (18.34)

Tiffany finds that settlers don’t apply Indigenous knowledge in caring for the land, whereas Indigenous peoples have ancient wisdom that helps them anticipate the needs of the land better. However, she celebrates that Parks Canada has recognized traditional knowledge of fire as valid in land management. She discusses the considerations around holding burns near burial cairns, with some groups having always done it and some having reservations about doing so. She reflects that many people do not have a relationship with fire due to past experiences, but they can have a spiritual relationship with fire.

The settler mindset is fear-based (27.05)

Through restoration work, Tiffany has learned about an invasive plant called scotch broom, with yellow flowers and big seed pods. She found the old method of pulling out the plants ineffective and suggested a controlled burn to Parks Canada, followed by digging out seed banks using machinery. They were able to find many native plants in the soil. Indigenous people have always cared for all life, but the colonial mindset looks at humans as inherently selfish and only capable of harming the land. She finds that the colonial violence inflicted upon Indigenous lands and people has led to fear of humans.

Land back (32.19)

Tiffany does not want to live in fear of what people can do based on the dehumanizing and violent mistreatment of Indigenous lands and people by settlers. She wants to live in a healthy relationship with the land and her people, recognizing that both have lived through trauma. While the colonial mindset may give up after damage has caused trauma, the Indigenous mindset knows the tools to heal and reclaim oneself. She shares how her aunt prefers the term stewardship to signify ongoing progress, and that getting land back restores the freedom of Indigenous people to live and have a safe space.

Indigenous land stewardship (36.36)

Tiffany wants to remove grass on Indigenous lands so that native plants can be restored and berry picking can communally take place. Private landowners look at berry plants as weeds and cut them down, but they are a part of Indigenous culture. She discusses the different types of Indigenous berries and shares memories of going berry picking growing up. She wants places to exist where Indigenous people can tend the land, remove invasive species, pick berries, have ceremonies and invite people to gather to heal and learn Indigenous languages together.

The band system was imposed by colonizers (41.48)

Tiffany clarifies that colonizers divided Indigenous people into bands which came to be called First Nations, but that term is misleading because even though the groups have different dialects and family teachings, their cultures work together to create an interconnected inseparable people. It is an intention for her people to not be divided by reservations and to come together to heal. It is the policy of division that continued into physical separation at residential schools - separating children from parents, siblings from each other, and even any two Indigenous people because they didn’t want them to exist.

“Our inherent value cannot be separated from the land” (43.00)

Tiffany highlights that Indigenous people are a keystone species. The Tsawout First Nation used to be very green but since the farmland was stolen by colonizers, it has become yellow. 80% of the world’s biodiversity is protected by Indigenous people, which means protecting Indigenous peoples is key to protecting the ecosystem. Indigenous peoples have been confined to tiny reserves but they have maintained their culture, language, and medicinal knowledge. However, there is more opportunity for them to expand in their existence as the original people of the land.

Sacred relationships (46.05)

Tiffany was raised to believe all life is sacred, and is uncomfortable objectifying land as a property with a numerical monetary value. In the same way, she is uncomfortable objectifying people as a Two-spirit person herself. She feels an immense love for women as powerful and beautiful life-givers, but unfortunately, others have a transactional relationship with them, especially with wanting women to do emotional labour. She believes rage needs to be unleashed on such people to help them wake up and take personal accountability for the work.

Personal accountability (49.48)

Tiffany acknowledges that she grew up with a lot of safety; her parents never used shaming words or pressured her to go against her wishes. “There was in a way a lack of discipline, but when it came down to their choice of, do I push this small human to live up to some sort of expectations, or do I just let them exist? My parents chose to let me exist. I think there is a lot of medicine I received from my parents by them treating me that way”, she claims. She wants to share that love and acceptance with others who didn’t receive it and treat them with reverence and sacredness so they can be themselves.

“It takes many hands to do great work” (52.07)

Encouraging someone to be themselves helps them express their best self, Tiffany believes. When she came to her parents as bisexual in her late 20s, she was met with excitement and gratitude. So she believes in supporting someone in their self-expression of their best self, whether that be berry picking, or making blueberry pie with those berries. Her self-expression is to remove invasive species and plant native ones, but she does not make medicines. She wants to support women in easing the pressure of expectations on them and support them in sharing the work and finding a way to express themselves.

Even colonizer bees don’t care about Indigenous bees (56.37)

Tiffany shares that the Coastal Douglas-fir zone (CDF) has the most plant biodiversity because it was tended to by Indigenous people with controlled burns. She began learning about pollinators through Pollinator Partnership and became certified as a Pollinator Steward. She explains the difference between Indigenous solitary bees and social bees, and how many foods wouldn’t exist without the bees' pollination work. Bringing pollinator bees to different plants improves their health. Indigenous bees do not pollinate beyond 100 m, while colonizer bees can pollinate miles away from their hive.

All we’ve ever needed is an opportunity to exist (1.05.02)

Tiffany talks about the story she wrote titled SEMSEMÍYE, which talks about the origin of the bee, similar to other origin stories in her culture. She aims to share the behaviours and experiences of the bee that she learned in her Pollinator Stewardship Certification course. She believes the Indigenous pollinator bees will always care for the land. Just like the bees will always pollinate as long as there are flowers, Indigenous women will always care for the land as long as there is access to it. Her learning helped her understand her role within the ecosystem and community, and she wants to help other women do so.

Finding galaxies in a flower petal (01.08.09)

Tiffany observes that people are drawn to Coast Salish people because of how they share. Just like the camas plant is important to Indigenous people not just as a food staple, but also important to the pollinator bees because it is easy to access, she believes Coast Salish peoples deserve to exist in that openness in relationship to one another. There is immense beauty in Indigenous cultures, and they have a right to exist to protect themselves. “Just be a good relative, value me, see me as sacred, don’t try to hurt me, and also trust that’s how I see you”, she signs off.

Resources

Tiffany Joseph

XAXE TENEW SACRED LAND SOCIETY

Community Profile: W̱SÁNEĆ’s ŚW̱,XELOSELWET Tiffany Joseph

Pollinator Partnership

The Story of SEMSEMÍYE by Tiffany Joseph

The Cowichan Sweater: Our Knitted Legacy

Sponsors

Canada Wildfire

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected]. 

If you liked this episode, please rate and review Good Fire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Please share our podcast on Instagram, BlueSky and Facebook and tag a friend. If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

Existence Is Resistance with Tiffany Joseph

Episode highlight

In this episode, Tiffany Joseph talks about native Indigenous plants and their ability to heal the ecosystem.

Resources

Tiffany Joseph

XAXE TENEW SACRED LAND SOCIETY

Community Profile: W̱SÁNEĆ’s ŚW̱,XELOSELWET Tiffany Joseph

Pollinator Partnership

The Story of SEMSEMÍYE by Tiffany Joseph

The Cowichan Sweater: Our Knitted Legacy

Sponsors

Canada Wildfire

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Quotes

13.19 - 13.41: “Anytime we are on the land, you have to have good thoughts and feelings, so anytime you light a fire, you have to be in that prayerful mindset, and being in a prayerful mindset really means having that abundance of positivity within your heart and your mind.” 

21.54 - 22.27: “Settlers, they are hungry for culture basically and really they need to find their own roots… they have to… trace their English or Celtic origins, whatever it is, and connect with that, so I found that eagerness to work with fire with us… came from… a hungry place of not having their own cultures.”

Takeaways

Camera Lady (03.12)

Tiffany is of Sḵx̱wu7mesh and W̱SÁNEĆ ancestry. Coast Salish Nations' protocol is to introduce their family when they introduce themselves to help others connect with them easily. She finds it important to introduce both her parents and grandparents, as well as her children, because while her parents and grandparents are the reason she came into the world, her children are the reason she stays. Her Indigenous nickname, ŚW̱, XELOSELWET, stands for ‘camera lady’, and she has a certificate in Indigenous independent filmmaking from Capilano University. 

A field of blue (05.41)

Tiffany began learning about Indigenous plants and restoration work in 2014 when she participated in the ‘Growing Our Futures’ program in SȾÁUTW̱. All the Indigenous participants recognized those plants as their Indigenous medicines, and reflect fondly on being able to learn about them. She began doing land restoration in 2015 and is focused on that work, specifically camas, whose bright blue colour made a field look like a sea to a visiting botanist. Camas is a food staple whose meadows used to cover the entire landscape from Beecher Bay First Nation to Southern Vancouver Island. 

Indigenous territory (08.49)

Tiffany laments that colonizers looked at the rich fertile lands, which was tended to make abundant meadows of camas, as theirs to steal. They operated under the ‘Terra nullius’ mindset wherein land was considered unoccupied unless occupied by a Christian even though there were thousands of Indigenous people living here. They considered the land wild even though the meadows were tended with controlled burns. The mighty oak used to be a companion plant to camas which grew stronger with controlled burns, and the falling branches and leaves fertilized the soil for the camas.

“We are all connected” (11.24)

Tiffany explains that the Indigenous ancestors learned that by burning the mighty oak leaves, their high acidity could be transformed into proper nutrients needed for the soil, which was clay. While the colonizers believed nothing could grow in the clay, the Indigenous peoples “grew enough camas to make it look like an ocean” and had the greatest biodiversity of any ecosystem in BC. She emphasizes the importance of having good thoughts and feelings, how having a prayerful mindset gives rise to abundant outcomes, and how everything is connected - the mind, heart, and all kinds of people.  

Fire is life (18.34)

Tiffany finds that settlers don’t apply Indigenous knowledge in caring for the land, whereas Indigenous peoples have ancient wisdom that helps them anticipate the needs of the land better. However, she celebrates that Parks Canada has recognized traditional knowledge of fire as valid in land management. She discusses the considerations around holding burns near burial cairns, with some groups having always done it and some having reservations about doing so. She reflects that many people do not have a relationship with fire due to past experiences, but they can have a spiritual relationship with fire.

The settler mindset is fear-based (27.05)

Through restoration work, Tiffany has learned about an invasive plant called scotch broom, with yellow flowers and big seed pods. She found the old method of pulling out the plants ineffective and suggested a controlled burn to Parks Canada, followed by digging out seed banks using machinery. They were able to find many native plants in the soil. Indigenous people have always cared for all life, but the colonial mindset looks at humans as inherently selfish and only capable of harming the land. She finds that the colonial violence inflicted upon Indigenous lands and people has led to fear of humans.

Land back (32.19)

Tiffany does not want to live in fear of what people can do based on the dehumanizing and violent mistreatment of Indigenous lands and people by settlers. She wants to live in a healthy relationship with the land and her people, recognizing that both have lived through trauma. While the colonial mindset may give up after damage has caused trauma, the Indigenous mindset knows the tools to heal and reclaim oneself. She shares how her aunt prefers the term stewardship to signify ongoing progress, and that getting land back restores the freedom of Indigenous people to live and have a safe space.

Indigenous land stewardship (36.36)

Tiffany wants to remove grass on Indigenous lands so that native plants can be restored and berry picking can communally take place. Private landowners look at berry plants as weeds and cut them down, but they are a part of Indigenous culture. She discusses the different types of Indigenous berries and shares memories of going berry picking growing up. She wants places to exist where Indigenous people can tend the land, remove invasive species, pick berries, have ceremonies and invite people to gather to heal and learn Indigenous languages together. 

The band system was imposed by colonizers (41.48)

Tiffany clarifies that colonizers divided Indigenous people into bands which came to be called First Nations, but that term is misleading because even though the groups have different dialects and family teachings, their cultures work together to create an interconnected inseparable people. It is an intention for her people to not be divided by reservations and to come together to heal. It is the policy of division that continued into physical separation at residential schools - separating children from parents, siblings from each other, and even any two Indigenous people because they didn’t want them to exist. 

“Our inherent value cannot be separated from the land” (43.00)

Tiffany highlights that Indigenous people are a keystone species. The Tsawout First Nation used to be very green but since the farmland was stolen by colonizers, it has become yellow. 80% of the world’s biodiversity is protected by Indigenous people, which means protecting Indigenous peoples is key to protecting the ecosystem. Indigenous peoples have been confined to tiny reserves but they have maintained their culture, language, and medicinal knowledge. However, there is more opportunity for them to expand in their existence as the original people of the land. 

Sacred relationships (46.05)

Tiffany was raised to believe all life is sacred, and is uncomfortable objectifying land as a property with a numerical monetary value. In the same way, she is uncomfortable objectifying people as a Two-spirit person herself. She feels an immense love for women as powerful and beautiful life-givers, but unfortunately, others have a transactional relationship with them, especially with wanting women to do emotional labour. She believes rage needs to be unleashed on such people to help them wake up and take personal accountability for the work.

Personal accountability (49.48)

Tiffany acknowledges that she grew up with a lot of safety; her parents never used shaming words or pressured her to go against her wishes. “There was in a way a lack of discipline, but when it came down to their choice of, do I push this small human to live up to some sort of expectations, or do I just let them exist? My parents chose to let me exist. I think there is a lot of medicine I received from my parents by them treating me that way”, she claims. She wants to share that love and acceptance with others who didn’t receive it and treat them with reverence and sacredness so they can be themselves.

“It takes many hands to do great work” (52.07)

Encouraging someone to be themselves helps them express their best self, Tiffany believes. When she came to her parents as bisexual in her late 20s, she was met with excitement and gratitude. So she believes in supporting someone in their self-expression of their best self, whether that be berry picking, or making blueberry pie with those berries. Her self-expression is to remove invasive species and plant native ones, but she does not make medicines. She wants to support women in easing the pressure of expectations on them and support them in sharing the work and finding a way to express themselves.

Even colonizer bees don’t care about Indigenous bees (56.37)

Tiffany shares that the Coastal Douglas-fir zone (CDF) has the most plant biodiversity because it was tended to by Indigenous people with controlled burns. She began learning about pollinators through Pollinator Partnership and became certified as a Pollinator Steward. She explains the difference between Indigenous solitary bees and social bees, and how many foods wouldn’t exist without the bees' pollination work. Bringing pollinator bees to different plants improves their health. Indigenous bees do not pollinate beyond 100 m, while colonizer bees can pollinate miles away from their hive.

All we’ve ever needed is an opportunity to exist (1.05.02)

Tiffany talks about the story she wrote titled SEMSEMÍYE, which talks about the origin of the bee, similar to other origin stories in her culture. She aims to share the behaviours and experiences of the bee that she learned in her Pollinator Stewardship Certification course. She believes the Indigenous pollinator bees will always care for the land. Just like the bees will always pollinate as long as there are flowers, Indigenous women will always care for the land as long as there is access to it. Her learning helped her understand her role within the ecosystem and community, and she wants to help other women do so.

Finding galaxies in a flower petal (01.08.09)

Tiffany observes that people are drawn to Coast Salish people because of how they share. Just like the camas plant is important to Indigenous people not just as a food staple, but also important to the pollinator bees because it is easy to access, she believes Coast Salish peoples deserve to exist in that openness in relationship to one another. There is immense beauty in Indigenous cultures, and they have a right to exist to protect themselves. “Just be a good relative, value me, see me as sacred, don’t try to hurt me, and also trust that’s how I see you”, she signs off.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too. Rate and review Good Fire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or other podcast platforms. Please share our podcast on Instagram, BlueSky, and Facebook and tag a friend!

S‍eason 3 | Episode 3 | Good Fire Podcast

Title: The Social Dynamics of Fire Management with Vanessa Luna-Celino

In this episode of the Good Fire Podcast, hosts Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff sit down with Vanessa Luna-Celino to talk about how community-based fire management is the way to sustaining forests.

Quotes

16.20 - 16.23:“Not every person in these peasant communities interacts with fire in the same way. There are of course power relationships and power dynamics; there are different needs of fire.”

29.57 - 30.12: “Part of my research also has to do with understanding the different narratives of what to do with fire and the role of fire in the landscape and for rural wellbeing.”

Takeaways

Meet Vanessa Luna-Celino (02.58)

Vanessa recently completed a PhD in Interdisciplinary Ecology from the University of Florida. She studied biology in her hometown, Lima, Peru, and then became interested in the social dimensions of conservation. Her PhD focussed on community-based fire management in the Peruvian Andes. She points out that with climate change, wildfires have become more commonplace in Peru. But with large populations living in the Andean and coastal regions, wildfires pose a threat.

The people of the land (05.26)

Vanessa has been working with communities who see annual wildfires ranging from 10 to 500+ hectares. While these fires may not be large, the territory they emerge in has been occupied for millennia, starting with the Inca empire to present- day Indigenous and mestizo (a mix of European and Indigenous descent) farmers. Most of this high Peruvian Andean landscape is filled with rural communities, called campesino communities, that collectively own and manage the land.

Indigenous communities of Peru (8.20)

Peru has a population of more than 30 million people, with a few million in the Andean region. The Indigenous groups who live in the south of the Andes are the Aymara and Quechua. In the Amazonian region, more than 60% of the territory has over 50 Indigenous groups, some only with a population of 500-1000 who speak their Indigenous language. The Indigenous group that has the most inhabitants in the country are the Quechua, who have been a part of Vanessa’s research.

Finding Fire (09.22)

Vanessa worked as a biologist at a biological station for many years in the Peruvian Andes and Amazon. Sometimes, a fire in the Quechua community on one side would spread into the national park on the other side and into the 600 hectares of biological station land, and she observed a complex relationship between the Indigenous Quechua group and the firefighters and park rangers, with farmers and cultural burning being blamed. She then began studying the cultural aspects of Indigenous peoples using fire.

Complex dimensions of fire use (12.57)

Vanessa was part of the Tropical Conservation and Development Program at the University of Florida which encourages researchers to partner with local communities, training them in a group on collaboration, conflict management, and Indigenous rights. She went back to her Indigenous coworkers and the surrounding community at the biological station with curiosity, wanting to simply begin her research by spending time with them and observing their approaches to and practices of fire.

Differences in community practices (15.32)

Vanessa considers herself blessed to have had the funding and time to spend a month each in every community over 3 fire seasons. She observed that different community members interact with fire in different ways, with farmers in remote areas using fire more than the ones in the main village. The community members slowly became more open when talking to Vanessa about their practices, once they understood she was there to learn and not instruct.

The pros and cons of elevated farms (17.19)

Vanessa found that rural areas need to use more fire due to the elevation and highly rugged landscape. These communities traditionally took advantage of the elevation differences to grow their traditional crops, with over 100 varieties of potatoes, and grapes and corn. Elevated farms that are surrounded by vegetation that has overgrown are the most vulnerable to having runaway fires, and it’s harder for them to access help to put out those fires.

Approaches to fire (20.15)

Vanessa notes that while Indigenous communities do use fire for rituals on a small scale, they don’t use it to manage the land. They learnt to use fire in their farms from the Spanish for agricultural purposes, to renew grass or get rid of residue. What is seen today on the farms is a blend of Indigenous and European agricultural practices. Communities see fire use and firefighting as a masculine task, but urban populations see more women participating. However, more Indigenous female participation is needed.

Colonization of mindsets (24.53)

Vanessa observes that the community dynamics are patriarchal and “that may have to do with Spanish introduction of ways of doing things”. Men are considered the head of the household, and she believes that is something that needs attention because it talks about different vulnerabilities of fire in terms of gender dynamics which applies to the use of fire. The families want to use the land and fire, but it is the man who has the most active role, and the wife and children support the man.

Burn, one way or another (27.48)

Vanessa describes the high Peruvian Andes as highly humanized because people have been on the land for 15,000 years. There are Puna grasslands in the high-elevation regions, some patches of Andean forest, and clout forest as one gets closer to the Amazon. The communities she works with live in the part of the highlands close to the Amazon and have collaborated for the past 20 years with environmental organizations that have promoted firefighting brigades and park rangers in the communities. This creates an interesting dynamic between protecting the forests vs using them for water and ecosystem services.

Community land use (30.39)

Vanessa shares that a large portion of Peruvian territory is owned and collectively managed by rural Indigenous communities who have a lot of autonomy in decision making and governance. In the community she collaborated with, there are 500 families, and the land belongs to the community, with one member of each family attending the bi-monthly official meetings. They can request a piece of land to farm but must comply with the requirements of the land use established in that community.

Strong collective action (32.49)

The Indigenous communities have different committees for fire and water, to ensure those resources are being managed well for the benefit of the entire community. The first response to a wildfire is from the communities because they are remote, and they organize themselves to successfully put it out most of the time. So, the most efficient way is to enable these communities with training and equipment, so they are most prepared to rapidly respond in the event of a wildfire.

Playing with fire (35.02)

Vanessa describes the complex relation with external parties in the situation. While everyone agrees on training to be able to respond to fire, there isn’t an agreement on the rights of using fire. Community members agree on the need to use fire since it has been used on the land for a long time, but Peruvian Forestry Law prohibits the use of fire, even for cultural purposes. So, external parties insist that fire must not be used, but the autonomy of the community ensures they are protected even if they do.

Fire on film (37.24)

Farmers have expressed to Vanessa that wildfires becoming more common worries them because they see the changes in weather, more droughts, less water and less forest, which affects their agricultural produce. After her research was completed, Vanessa created a documentary with a grant from her university and an all-Peruvian cast and crew. She shared the documentary with the community and all key parties in order to disseminate that information back to them.

Effective community measures (42.24)

Vanessa believes that all key parties must have effective communication to use the limited resources more effectively. To that end, she organized workshops using the integrated fire management framework to bring them together and discuss their thoughts on how they think Andean landscapes have changed and will change in rural relationships with fire and what is needed to manage fire in Peru. While the attendance was not very high, those who came were willing to challenge their perceptions.

High risk of wildfires (45.48)

Vanessa laments that most communities don’t have the equipment needed to respond appropriately to fire. The communities that have received training from external parties have benefitted the most since they are the first responders to a fire, with firefighters not reaching on time. While some fires begin with accidents or rituals, most fires are escape fires from agricultural burns. A wildfire will quickly go through the plains’ Puna grassland and up the slope to farms and plantations, especially the flammable species.

Recovering from wildfires (50.21)

Vanessa finds that how quickly farmers begin reusing the land after a wildfire depends on how intense it was. The recovery time on the landscape can be rapid when it has affected vegetation such as grasslands or bushes, but it takes longer when it affects the nearby clout forest, which worries key parties. The landscape is highly varied with grasslands, tree plantations and forests, and has been highly humanized. She hopes to encourage other researchers and students to research more on this issue.

Protecting the forests (55.10)

Vanessa speaks about humanized landscapes in the Peruvian Andes in her ecological and anthropological research because Indigenous Peoples have been living in the high Andes for at least 10,000 years and have farmed the lands and brought fire to it. With the Spanish colonization, new crops and ways of managing the land were introduced, and now only relics of the Andean forests remain. That has caused many more escape fires in recent years, and a lot more research is needed to manage land better.

Community-based conservation (58.57)

Vanessa’s shift from biological to social science reflects the recognition that in a country like Peru, where there are a lot of rural people that own and manage land and where the former narrative of biodiversity conservation is no longer working, we need to shift to community-based conservation. She believes researchers and conservationists should collaborate with the communities of the Andes and Amazon to help them to conserve those forests for the benefit of all.

Resources

Vanessa Luna-Celino

Vanessa’s Website

Farmers and Fire: Local efforts in dealing with wildfires in Peru

Forbidden fire and the potential role of community-based fire management in the Peruvian Andes

Sponsors

Canada Wildfire

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected]. 

If you liked this episode, please rate and review Good Fire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Please share our podcast on Instagram, BlueSky and Facebook and tag a friend. If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend.

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

The Social Dynamics of Fire Management with Vanessa Luna-Celino

Episode highlight

In this episode, Vanessa Luna-Celino talks about how community-based fire management is the way to sustaining forests.

Resources

Vanessa Luna-Celino

Vanessa’s Website

Documentary - Farmers and Fire: Local efforts in dealing with wildfires in Peru

Forbidden fire and the potential role of community-based fire management in the Peruvian Andes

Sponsors

Canada Wildfire

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Quotes

16.20 - 16.23: “Not every person in these peasant communities interacts with fire in the same way. There are of course power relationships and power dynamics; there are different needs of fire.”  

29.57 - 30.12: “Part of my research also has to do with understanding the different narratives of what to do with fire and the role of fire in the landscape and for rural wellbeing.” 

Takeaways

Meet Vanessa Luna-Celino (02.58)

Vanessa recently completed a PhD in Interdisciplinary Ecology from the University of Florida. She studied biology in her hometown, Lima, Peru, and then became interested in the social dimensions of conservation. Her PhD focussed on community-based fire management in the Peruvian Andes. She points out that with climate change, wildfires have become more commonplace in Peru. But with large populations living in the Andean and coastal regions, wildfires pose a threat.

The people of the land (05.26)

Vanessa has been working with communities who see annual wildfires ranging from 10 to 500+ hectares. While these fires may not be large, the territory they emerge in has been occupied for millennia, starting with the Inca empire to present- day Indigenous and mestizo (a mix of European and Indigenous descent) farmers. Most of this high Peruvian Andean landscape is filled with rural communities, called campesino communities, that collectively own and manage the land. 

Indigenous communities of Peru (8.20)

Peru has a population of more than 30 million people, with a few million in the Andean region. The Indigenous groups who live in the south of the Andes are the Aymara and Quechua. In the Amazonian region, more than 60% of the territory has over 50 Indigenous groups, some only with a population of 500-1000 who speak their Indigenous language. The Indigenous group that has the most inhabitants in the country are the Quechua, who have been a part of Vanessa’s research.

Finding Fire (09.22)

Vanessa worked as a biologist at a biological station for many years in the Peruvian Andes and Amazon. Sometimes, a fire in the Quechua community on one side would spread into the national park on the other side and into the 600 hectares of biological station land, and she observed a complex relationship between the Indigenous Quechua group and the firefighters and park rangers, with farmers and cultural burning being blamed. She then began studying the cultural aspects of Indigenous peoples using fire.

Complex dimensions of fire use (12.57)

Vanessa was part of the Tropical Conservation and Development Program at the University of Florida which encourages researchers to partner with local communities, training them in a group on collaboration, conflict management, and Indigenous rights. She went back to her Indigenous coworkers and the surrounding community at the biological station with curiosity, wanting to simply begin her research by spending time with them and observing their approaches to and practices of fire. 

Differences in community practices (15.32)

Vanessa considers herself blessed to have had the funding and time to spend a month each in every community over 3 fire seasons. She observed that different community members interact with fire in different ways, with farmers in remote areas using fire more than the ones in the main village. The community members slowly became more open when talking to Vanessa about their practices, once they understood she was there to learn and not instruct.  

The pros and cons of elevated farms (17.19)

Vanessa found that rural areas need to use more fire due to the elevation and highly rugged landscape. These communities traditionally took advantage of the elevation differences to grow their traditional crops, with over 100 varieties of potatoes, and grapes and corn. Elevated farms that are surrounded by vegetation that has overgrown are the most vulnerable to having runaway fires, and it’s harder for them to access help to put out those fires. 

Approaches to fire (20.15)

Vanessa notes that while Indigenous communities do use fire for rituals on a small scale, they don’t use it to manage the land. They learnt to use fire in their farms from the Spanish for agricultural purposes, to renew grass or get rid of residue. What is seen today on the farms is a blend of Indigenous and European agricultural practices. Communities see fire use and firefighting as a masculine task, but urban populations see more women participating. However, more Indigenous female participation is needed. 

Colonization of mindsets (24.53)

Vanessa observes that the community dynamics are patriarchal and “that may have to do with Spanish introduction of ways of doing things”. Men are considered the head of the household, and she believes that is something that needs attention because it talks about different vulnerabilities of fire in terms of gender dynamics which applies to the use of fire. The families want to use the land and fire, but it is the man who has the most active role, and the wife and children support the man.

Burn, one way or another (27.48)

Vanessa describes the high Peruvian Andes as highly humanized because people have been on the land for 15,000 years. There are Puna grasslands in the high-elevation regions, some patches of Andean forest, and clout forest as one gets closer to the Amazon. The communities she works with live in the part of the highlands close to the Amazon and have collaborated for the past 20 years with environmental organizations that have promoted firefighting brigades and park rangers in the communities. This creates an interesting dynamic between protecting the forests vs using them for water and ecosystem services.

Community land use (30.39)

Vanessa shares that a large portion of Peruvian territory is owned and collectively managed by rural Indigenous communities who have a lot of autonomy in decision making and governance. In the community she collaborated with, there are 500 families, and the land belongs to the community, with one member of each family attending the bi-monthly official meetings. They can request a piece of land to farm but must comply with the requirements of the land use established in that community.

Strong collective action (32.49)

The Indigenous communities have different committees for fire and water, to ensure those resources are being managed well for the benefit of the entire community. The first response to a wildfire is from the communities because they are remote, and they organize themselves to successfully put it out most of the time. So, the most efficient way is to enable these communities with training and equipment, so they are most prepared to rapidly respond in the event of a wildfire.

Playing with fire (35.02)

Vanessa describes the complex relation with external parties in the situation. While everyone agrees on training to be able to respond to fire, there isn’t an agreement on the rights of using fire. Community members agree on the need to use fire since it has been used on the land for a long time, but Peruvian Forestry Law prohibits the use of fire, even for cultural purposes. So, external parties insist that fire must not be used, but the autonomy of the community ensures they are protected even if they do.

Fire on film (37.24)

Farmers have expressed to Vanessa that wildfires becoming more common worries them because they see the changes in weather, more droughts, less water and less forest, which affects their agricultural produce. After her research was completed, Vanessa created a documentary with a grant from her university and an all-Peruvian cast and crew. She shared the documentary with the community and all key parties in order to disseminate that information back to them. 

Effective community measures (42.24) 

Vanessa believes that all key parties must have effective communication to use the limited resources more effectively. To that end, she organized workshops using the integrated fire management framework to bring them together and discuss their thoughts on how they think Andean landscapes have changed and will change in rural relationships with fire and what is needed to manage fire in Peru. While the attendance was not very high, those who came were willing to challenge their perceptions. 

High risk of wildfires (45.48)

Vanessa laments that most communities don’t have the equipment needed to respond appropriately to fire. The communities that have received training from external parties have benefitted the most since they are the first responders to a fire, with firefighters not reaching on time. While some fires begin with accidents or rituals, most fires are escape fires from agricultural burns. A wildfire will quickly go through the plains’ Puna grassland and up the slope to farms and plantations, especially the flammable species.

Recovering from wildfires (50.21)

Vanessa finds that how quickly farmers begin reusing the land after a wildfire depends on how intense it was. The recovery time on the landscape can be rapid when it has affected vegetation such as grasslands or bushes, but it takes longer when it affects the nearby clout forest, which worries key parties. The landscape is highly varied with grasslands, tree plantations and forests, and has been highly humanized. She hopes to encourage other researchers and students to research more on this issue.

Protecting the forests (55.10)

Vanessa speaks about humanized landscapes in the Peruvian Andes in her ecological and anthropological research because Indigenous Peoples have been living in the high Andes for at least 10,000 years and have farmed the lands and brought fire to it. With the Spanish colonization, new crops and ways of managing the land were introduced, and now only relics of the Andean forests remain. That has caused many more escape fires in recent years, and a lot more research is needed to manage land better. 

Community-based conservation (58.57)

Vanessa’s shift from biological to social science reflects the recognition that in a country like Peru, where there are a lot of rural people that own and manage land and where the former narrative of biodiversity conservation is no longer working, we need to shift to community-based conservation. She believes researchers and conservationists should collaborate with the communities of the Andes and Amazon to help them to conserve those forests for the benefit of all.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected].

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too. Rate and review Good Fire on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or other podcast platforms. Please share our podcast on Instagram, BlueSky and Facebook and tag a friend.

S‍eason 3 | Episode 2 | Good Fire Podcast

Title: We Are Fire People with Jessica Angel

In this episode of the Good Fire Podcast, Jessica Angel talks to Amy Cardinal Christianson and Vikki Preston about being an Indigenous trans woman bringing back fire to her Nation. 

Quotes

23.30 - 23.33:“The best teacher when it comes to working with fire is fire.” 

33.19 – 33.23: “Some good smoke is part of preventing a larger quantity of bad smoke down the road.”

56.02 - 56.28:“It’s been really interesting to… show up with this zeal for fire as… an Indigenous trans woman… because, let me tell you, the fire world is stacked against Indigenous peoples and more so stacked against Indigenous women. It isn’t even beginning to crack open… trans people let alone… trans people who are Indigenous or Black or POC or BIPOC in some way.”

Takeaways

Meet Jessica Angel (07.59)

Jessica is an Indigenous trans woman, a cultural fire practitioner and an enrolled member of the Chinook Indian Nation. Until recently, she worked at Ecostudies Institute in Olympia, Washington. She now works to approach cultural Indigenous fire from a community perspective. Her Nation recently had their second ever prescribed fire since colonization, and she found it a different experience to attend it as an individual as opposed to with an organization or agency. 

“How do you be a good steward of your land using fire in the 21st century?” (11.43)

Jessica became involved in Indigenous fire over three years ago. She got her FFT-2 qualification to become a basic wildland firefighter, but believes it is a big barrier to Indigenous peoples being able to participate in burning on their land, since the certification is required by many agencies. She is a founding member of the all-Indigenous cultural burn crew, The Wagon Burners. They have had many burning sessions over Oregon and Washington and are planning how to continue operations into the future.

Burning to protect endangered species (14.34)

Jessica shares that Ecostudies Institute workson land where there was some good fire till the 20th century, after which it was turned into a joint military and air force base, where there are radioactive materials to this day. The detonation activity and the weaponry  are not positive for the endangered plant diversity. Ecostudies Institute was able to step in and create agreements to allow prescribed fire, helping kill invasive species and protect the endangered ones.

Fire is the best teacher (19.30)

As an Indigenous person, Jessica experiences cognitive dissonance being around men with guns, given the history of the US Government participating in the genocide of Indigenous peoples all across the USA. As a young person involved in fire, she feels privileged to have access to a lot of knowledge and many teachers and the ability to burn often. It’s interesting to her to compare the perspectives of academicians with those who have hands-on experience with fire.

Connection to fire (24.58)

Jessica credits her grandmother for her journey into the world of fire. Her grandmother would burn on her farm in Oregon with tall flames. She believes that Chinook peoples are “just beginning our revitalization of fire practices”. She recalls a training session she attended to help make the FFT-2 certification more culturally appropriate, and a burn which made her realize she wanted to work in cultural fire for the rest of her life.

Cultural burning (30.22)

Jessica shares that when her mother was a child, many non-native farmers burned on their fields, but because it was uncoordinated, the smoke became an issue and many strict regulations had to be put into place. This then presented a huge barrier to Indigenous farmers who wanted to burn, especially in the short burning windows they had. While burning is part of Indigenous culture and history, Jessica jokes about how that tendency manifests in burning other things.

Recognizing unceded lands (34.40)

Jessica feels privileged to be part of a group of Chinook peoples helping to get fire back on the land now. The Chinook Indian Nation is not one of the 500 Tribes that have federal recognition in the USA. However, they are “celebrating a victory and a step forward with the decision to recognize us as the inheritors of these Docket 234 funds”, says Jessica, recognizing them as heirs to their own ancestry and territory. Last year, they were able to return fire to West End Island, an important fishing spot.

Reciprocity is required (39.40)

“You have to be in an intentional give and take relationship with the land”, Jessica states. She finds that the “settler mindset of… taming nature” gets in the way of the protection of endangered species. However, Indigenous understanding of nature and the application of that in cultural burning makes her feel grateful. She was involved in a burn on her family’s ancestral land where many Chinook people lit their first flames, sang and were blessed by the sighting of a bald eagle. 

The people of the river (49.36)

Jessica is excited for the resurgence of knowledge for her community, especially as coastal peoples, since the evidence of fire existing in their Nation is in their traditional stories. She describes the traditional territories of the Chinook peoples and where they have dispersed now. The Chinook Indian Nation is the people at the mouth of the Columbia river and lower Columbia. There are three distinct groups of Chinook peoples who each have different nations that they associate themselves with. 

“It’s not easy for any woman to work in fire” (54.00)

Jessica feels committed to working in fire, even though it is a difficult and intense career choice. For a trans woman, harassment, transphobia and misogyny are unfortunately common factors of the workplace. She finds it ironic how some people are afraid of fire, not of other people, whereas for her, fire is safe, but some people may not be. She finds that inclusivity is lagging behind in the fire world, where white women feminism is marginalizing and harming Indigenous and trans people. 

“As an Indigenous trans woman, I am willing to be blunt and forward in advocating for those changes to happen because my involvement in fires is already one where most people don’t want me there.”

Fighting alone (59.25)

Jessica acknowledges that it is difficult and lonely to be an advocate, but she feels committed to speaking her truths. She is aware that she will not always be welcomed, and she has to be mindful of which jobs will put her safety or life at risk. She asks herself, “Are they worth choosing to tokenize myself in the workplace or choosing to put myself in harm’s way emotionally and physically?” She is pained by other people who uphold colonial or patriarchal systems in spaces that should otherwise be safe.

“A future where fire is in the hands of everyday people” (1.06.31)

Jessica feels hopeful that more people are wanting to be involved in cultural fire. She wants to create opportunities for Indigenous peoples of all ages and gender identities to be involved in fire without sitting through extensive trainings. Indigenous peoples have stewarded the land and protected their communities through fire since time immemorial, and the knowledge of fire and of trans people was removed from their communities through colonization. Jessica educates others on that rich, gender-diverse history.

Resources

Jessica Angel

Ecostudies Institute

Good Fire Returns to Oregon’s Willamette Valley

Indian Claims Commission (ICC) Docket 234

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected]. 

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

We Are Fire People with Jessica Angel

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Jessica Angel talks to Amy Cardinal Christianson and Vikki Preston about being an Indigenous trans woman bringing back fire to her Nation. 

Resources

Jessica Angel

Ecostudies Institute

https://fusee.org/fusee/indigenous-cultural-burning-crew-returns-good-fire-to-oregons-willamette-valley

Docket 234 Funds

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Quotes

23.30 - 23.33: “The best teacher when it comes to working with fire is fire.” 

33.19 – 33.23: “Some good smoke is part of preventing a larger quantity of bad smoke down the road.”

56.02 - 56.28: “It’s been really interesting to… show up with this zeal for fire as… an Indigenous trans woman… because, let me tell you, the fire world is stacked against Indigenous peoples and more so stacked against Indigenous women. It isn’t even beginning to crack open… trans people let alone… trans people who are Indigenous or Black or POC or BIPOC in some way.”

Takeaways

Meet Jessica Angel (07.59)

Jessica is an Indigenous trans woman, a cultural fire practitioner and an enrolled member of the Chinook Indian Nation. Until recently, she worked at Ecostudies Institute in Olympia, Washington. She now works to approach cultural Indigenous fire from a community perspective. Her Nation recently had their second ever prescribed fire since colonization, and she found it a different experience to attend it as an individual as opposed to with an organization or agency. 

“How do you be a good steward of your land using fire in the 21st century?” (11.43)

Jessica became involved in Indigenous fire over three years ago. She got her FFT-2 qualification to become a basic wildland firefighter, but believes it is a big barrier to Indigenous peoples being able to participate in burning on their land, since the certification is required by many agencies. She is a founding member of the all-Indigenous cultural burn crew, The Wagon Burners. They have had many burning sessions over Oregon and Washington and are planning how to continue operations into the future.

Burning to protect endangered species (14.34)

Jessica shares that Ecostudies Institute workson land where there was some good fire till the 20th century, after which it was turned into a joint military and air force base, where there are radioactive materials to this day. The detonation activity and the weaponry  are not positive for the endangered plant diversity. Ecostudies Institute was able to step in and create agreements to allow prescribed fire, helping kill invasive species and protect the endangered ones.

Fire is the best teacher (19.30)

As an Indigenous person, Jessica experiences cognitive dissonance being around men with guns, given the history of the US Government participating in the genocide of Indigenous peoples all across the USA. As a young person involved in fire, she feels privileged to have access to a lot of knowledge and many teachers and the ability to burn often. It’s interesting to her to compare the perspectives of academicians with those who have hands-on experience with fire.

Connection to fire (24.58)

Jessica credits her grandmother for her journey into the world of fire. Her grandmother would burn on her farm in Oregon with tall flames. She believes that Chinook peoples are “just beginning our revitalization of fire practices”. She recalls a training session she attended to help make the FFT-2 certification more culturally appropriate, and a burn which made her realize she wanted to work in cultural fire for the rest of her life.

Cultural burning (30.22)

Jessica shares that when her mother was a child, many non-native farmers burned on their fields, but because it was uncoordinated, the smoke became an issue and many strict regulations had to be put into place. This then presented a huge barrier to Indigenous farmers who wanted to burn, especially in the short burning windows they had. While burning is part of Indigenous culture and history, Jessica jokes about how that tendency manifests in burning other things.

Recognizing unceded lands (34.40)

Jessica feels privileged to be part of a group of Chinook peoples helping to get fire back on the land now. The Chinook Indian Nation is not one of the 500 Tribes that have federal recognition in the USA. However, they are “celebrating a victory and a step forward with the decision to recognize us as the inheritors of these Docket 234 funds”, says Jessica, recognizing them as heirs to their own ancestry and territory. Last year, they were able to return fire to West End Island, an important fishing spot.

Reciprocity is required (39.40)

“You have to be in an intentional give and take relationship with the land”, Jessica states. She finds that the “settler mindset of… taming nature” gets in the way of the protection of endangered species. However, Indigenous understanding of nature and the application of that in cultural burning makes her feel grateful. She was involved in a burn on her family’s ancestral land where many Chinook people lit their first flames, sang and were blessed by the sighting of a bald eagle. 

The people of the river (49.36)

Jessica is excited for the resurgence of knowledge for her community, especially as coastal peoples, since the evidence of fire existing in their Nation is in their traditional stories. She describes the traditional territories of the Chinook peoples and where they have dispersed now. The Chinook Indian Nation is the people at the mouth of the Columbia river and lower Columbia. There are three distinct groups of Chinook peoples who each have different nations that they associate themselves with. 

“It’s not easy for any woman to work in fire” (54.00)

Jessica feels committed to working in fire, even though it is a difficult and intense career choice. For a trans woman, harassment, transphobia and misogyny are unfortunately common factors of the workplace. She finds it ironic how some people are afraid of fire, not of other people, whereas for her, fire is safe, but some people may not be. She finds that inclusivity is lagging behind in the fire world, where white women feminism is marginalizing and harming Indigenous and trans people. 

“As an Indigenous trans woman, I am willing to be blunt and forward in advocating for those changes to happen because my involvement in fires is already one where most people don’t want me there.”

Fighting alone (59.25)

Jessica acknowledges that it is difficult and lonely to be an advocate, but she feels committed to speaking her truths. She is aware that she will not always be welcomed, and she has to be mindful of which jobs will put her safety or life at risk. She asks herself, “Are they worth choosing to tokenize myself in the workplace or choosing to put myself in harm’s way emotionally and physically?” She is pained by other people who uphold colonial or patriarchal systems in spaces that should otherwise be safe.

“A future where fire is in the hands of everyday people” (1.06.31)

Jessica feels hopeful that more people are wanting to be involved in cultural fire. She wants to create opportunities for Indigenous peoples of all ages and gender identities to be involved in fire without sitting through extensive trainings. Indigenous peoples have stewarded the land and protected their communities through fire since time immemorial, and the knowledge of fire and of trans people was removed from their communities through colonization. Jessica educates others on that rich, gender-diverse history.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected]. 

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

S‍eason 3 | Episode 1 | Good Fire Podcast

Title: Healing Trauma Through Burning with Vikki Preston and Monique Wynecoop

In this podcast, Vikki and Monique talk about the role of Indigenous women in fire and the path to bringing fire back on the land. 

Quotes

42.41 – 42.46: “There is a place for me, and it doesn’t need to be in the system that’s not working.”

50.06 – 50.16: “It’s our journey as… mothers and matriarchs and leaders to make sure we are protecting the younger future generations.”

Takeaways

Meet Vikki Preston (02.14)

Vikki is from the Karuk Tribe and has lived in rural Orleans, California for most of her life. She works as the Cultural Resource Technician for the Department of Natural Resources of the Karuk Tribe. Being at the Association for Fire Ecology 10th International Fire Ecology and Management Congress has been made more significant for her due to the “strong native presence”. Growing up Indigenous, she used to listen to basket weavers talking about fire being a big part of “the lived experience of being Indigenous”. As a basket weaver herself, she is constantly connected to the importance of fire in her culture.

Meet Monique Wynecoop (05.59)

Monique is Pit River/Mountain Maidu on her mother’s side and Italian American on her father’s. Her ancestors are always on her mind, and she has been educating her children and family about residential schools. She has worked for the forest service for 16 years now and takes pride in working in the same profession as her father did his whole career. She is excited to be working with the Bureau of Indian Affairs as Tri-Regional Fire Ecologist for the Northwest, Alaska, and Rocky Mountain Regions so that she can help the tribes in those areas access the resources they need for fire and fuels management, and cultural burning. 

Rebuilding the relationship between the land and community (08.18)

For the last 16 years, Monique has been living in the ancestral territories of her children’s father’s tribe, the Spokane Tribe. “I’m at that point in my life where I want to be the matriarch I needed”, she notes, and works to teach the children by example. She was contacted by Dr. Melodi Wynne, the Food Sovereignty manager for Spokane Tribal Network and the Spokane Tribe, to work on the Food Sovereignty Garden for the Spokane Tribe. She helps communicate how fire is important for food sovereignty which in turn is essential for community wellness.

“Delayed justice” (11.04)

Vikki emphasizes the importance of Indigenous women being at the forefront of telling the stories of their community. Monique shares how it is her moment to tell the stories that her mother or great aunt were not able to share either due to the trauma or fear, to help deliver justice for her ancestors. Vikki continues to be inspired to work in fire so that no woman in her community is made to feel small. She encourages women to speak up, especially the younger generation. Monique tries to give herself the same advice she gives her children - to not apologize for speaking the truth.

Indigenous fire management (16.34)

Vikki appreciates working with strong women like Jessica Conrad, who has done some amazing work in wildlife and fire and reinforces the role Indigenous women play in protecting land, cultural resources and community. The work they do for wildland fires in culturally relevant areas for the Karuk Tribe, speaking up and having a say, is important in the face of outside management teams using suppression tactics that the tribe doesn’t agree with. Now, their cutting tribe goes to the forest with tribal representatives and heritage consultants on the ground to ensure better processes.

“Don’t stop being the way you are” (20.41)

Vikki is often the only Indigenous woman in a fire camp and feels judged; she does not like to see other people experience that feeling of being unwelcome. “Sometimes it’s about being someone, someone else can feel supported by”, she explains. She finds it important to have someone who can help you overcome the negativity in the fire world. She shares a negative experience she had with other firefighters on a recent TREX (prescribed fire training exchange). Her father, who has been in fire his whole life, told her, “They are never going to accept you but don’t stop being the way you are”, which allowed her to step into a leadership role at Karuk’s Women’s TREX.

The canoe journey (24.36)

Vikki talks about how the land holds trauma and being on the land can help you heal your own trauma as well as that of the land. Being a matriarch and helping her children participate in their culture is her way of healing the trauma of being separated from the tribe after her divorce. She is happy to organize community gatherings for her tribe to help them see a good snapshot of Indigenous women in fire and burn together. Having a supportive learning environment to burn and ask questions, like the Fire Congress provided, also makes the burns go well, she believes.

Demilitarizing fire (32.32)

Vikki ponders about the tools she can offer from her experience with the federal government to “help people put more good fire on the ground”. She has received some great ideas from her interactions with others at the Fire Congress. Monique believes that fire is already too militarized, and that no workforce should be created within the military to do prescribed burning. She laments that western standards consider fire to be a liability but participating in cultural burning with families is important to understand the intergenerational aspect of the cultural practices. Vikki agrees that children should be allowed to burn.

Representation matters (36.51)

Monique has observed that her children feel content and proud of their families when they are actively participating in their culture and seeing representation. She goes to talk to their non-tribal school about cultural burning and fire ecology, and being some of the few native kids at that school makes her children step up to talk about it. “Kids aren’t that much different from adults; when we see representation, we speak up as well - we tend to shine brighter”. Vikki is also proud of the representation of Indigenous peoples at the conference but knows that decolonizing fire from an academic approach is still far away.

“You should know your land the best” (41.45)

Monique advocates for more fire practitioners to tell their story instead of academics. Telling the stories themselves is important, especially for those who have not been able to share their stories. She finds that the western scientific community is elitist and that not enough application of research has taken place. Vikki believes the strongest education one can have is talking to people who are doing the work, which helps build a community that feels like home. Vikki finds sharing her ancestors’ stories is a way to help deliver justice and undo Indigenous erasure.

Academic decolonization (52.30)

Vikki believes that stereotypes perpetuated by non-Indigenous peoples should not be available for citation for students. Monique has found that lots of racist content gets perpetuated and elevated through citation. She grew up learning from her family members about the effects colonization had on Indigenous peoples and wants to work to help future generations “feel like they belong on their ancestral homelands”. Her goal is to visit the tribes whose lands she works on to talk about functional learning and build relationships by attending cultural ceremonies as an example for her children. 

Looking ahead (1.04.04)

Vikki is looking forward to organizing more Karuk Indigenous Women’s TREX to bring back more feedback to the prescribed fire world. She also wants to organize more events for women in fire, especially queer or trans folks in fire to create a safe space for them. Vikki highlights the condition of Indigenous peoples in Palestine and urges listeners to consider how they can support the Indigenous communities there.

Resources

Association for Fire Ecology 10th International Fire Ecology and Management Congress

Vikki Preston

Monique Wynecoop

Jessica Conrad

What if Indigenous women ran controlled burns?

Indigenous Erasure in Fire Ecology

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected]. 

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].

Good Fire Podcast by Amy Cardinal Christianson and Matthew Kristoff

Stories of Indigenous fire stewardship, cultural and social empowerment and environmental integrity

Healing Trauma Through Burning with Vikki Preston and Monique Wynecoop

Episode highlight

In this podcast, Vikki and Monique talk about the role of Indigenous women in fire and the path to bringing fire back on the land. 

Resources

Association for Fire Ecology 10th International Fire Ecology and Management Congress

Vikki Preston

Monique Wynecoop

Jessica Conrad

https://www.hcn.org/issues/55-1/indigenous-affairs-wildfire-what-if-indigenous-women-ran-controlled-burns/

https://yff.yale.edu/speaker/monique-wynecoop-atsugewi-mountain-maidu

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK77EWDJeoU

Sponsors

The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science

Indigenous Leadership Initiative

Quotes

42.41 – 42.46: “There is a place for me, and it doesn’t need to be in the system that’s not working.”

50.06 – 50.16 “It’s our journey as… mothers and matriarchs and leaders to make sure we are protecting the younger future generations.”

Takeaways

Meet Vikki Preston (02.14)

Vikki is from the Karuk Tribe and has lived in rural Orleans, California for most of her life. She works as the Cultural Resource Technician for the Department of Natural Resources of the Karuk Tribe. Being at the Association for Fire Ecology 10th International Fire Ecology and Management Congress has been made more significant for her due to the “strong native presence”. Growing up Indigenous, she used to listen to basket weavers talking about fire being a big part of “the lived experience of being Indigenous”. As a basket weaver herself, she is constantly connected to the importance of fire in her culture.

Meet Monique Wynecoop (05.59)

Monique is Pit River/Mountain Maidu on her mother’s side and Italian American on her father’s. Her ancestors are always on her mind, and she has been educating her children and family about residential schools. She has worked for the forest service for 16 years now and takes pride in working in the same profession as her father did his whole career. She is excited to be working with the Bureau of Indian Affairs as Tri-Regional Fire Ecologist for the Northwest, Alaska, and Rocky Mountain Regions so that she can help the tribes in those areas access the resources they need for fire and fuels management, and cultural burning. 

Rebuilding the relationship between the land and community (08.18)

For the last 16 years, Monique has been living in the ancestral territories of her children’s father’s tribe, the Spokane Tribe. “I’m at that point in my life where I want to be the matriarch I needed”, she notes, and works to teach the children by example. She was contacted by Dr. Melodi Wynne, the Food Sovereignty manager for Spokane Tribal Network and the Spokane Tribe, to work on the Food Sovereignty Garden for the Spokane Tribe. She helps communicate how fire is important for food sovereignty which in turn is essential for community wellness.

“Delayed justice” (11.04)

Vikki emphasizes the importance of Indigenous women being at the forefront of telling the stories of their community. Monique shares how it is her moment to tell the stories that her mother or great aunt were not able to share either due to the trauma or fear, to help deliver justice for her ancestors. Vikki continues to be inspired to work in fire so that no woman in her community is made to feel small. She encourages women to speak up, especially the younger generation. Monique tries to give herself the same advice she gives her children - to not apologize for speaking the truth.

Indigenous fire management (16.34)

Vikki appreciates working with strong women like Jessica Conrad, who has done some amazing work in wildlife and fire and reinforces the role Indigenous women play in protecting land, cultural resources and community. The work they do for wildland fires in culturally relevant areas for the Karuk Tribe, speaking up and having a say, is important in the face of outside management teams using suppression tactics that the tribe doesn’t agree with. Now, their cutting tribe goes to the forest with tribal representatives and heritage consultants on the ground to ensure better processes.

“Don’t stop being the way you are” (20.41)

Vikki is often the only Indigenous woman in a fire camp and feels judged; she does not like to see other people experience that feeling of being unwelcome. “Sometimes it’s about being someone, someone else can feel supported by”, she explains. She finds it important to have someone who can help you overcome the negativity in the fire world. She shares a negative experience she had with other firefighters on a recent TREX (prescribed fire training exchange). Her father, who has been in fire his whole life, told her, “They are never going to accept you but don’t stop being the way you are”, which allowed her to step into a leadership role at Karuk’s Women’s TREX.

The canoe journey (24.36)

Vikki talks about how the land holds trauma and being on the land can help you heal your own trauma as well as that of the land. Being a matriarch and helping her children participate in their culture is her way of healing the trauma of being separated from the tribe after her divorce. She is happy to organize community gatherings for her tribe to help them see a good snapshot of Indigenous women in fire and burn together. Having a supportive learning environment to burn and ask questions, like the Fire Congress provided, also makes the burns go well, she believes.

Demilitarizing fire (32.32)

Vikki ponders about the tools she can offer from her experience with the federal government to “help people put more good fire on the ground”. She has received some great ideas from her interactions with others at the Fire Congress. Monique believes that fire is already too militarized, and that no workforce should be created within the military to do prescribed burning. She laments that western standards consider fire to be a liability but participating in cultural burning with families is important to understand the intergenerational aspect of the cultural practices. Vikki agrees that children should be allowed to burn.

Representation matters (36.51)

Monique has observed that her children feel content and proud of their families when they are actively participating in their culture and seeing representation. She goes to talk to their non-tribal school about cultural burning and fire ecology, and being some of the few native kids at that school makes her children step up to talk about it. “Kids aren’t that much different from adults; when we see representation, we speak up as well - we tend to shine brighter”. Vikki is also proud of the representation of Indigenous peoples at the conference but knows that decolonizing fire from an academic approach is still far away.

“You should know your land the best” (41.45)

Monique advocates for more fire practitioners to tell their story instead of academics. Telling the stories themselves is important, especially for those who have not been able to share their stories. She finds that the western scientific community is elitist and that not enough application of research has taken place. Vikki believes the strongest education one can have is talking to people who are doing the work, which helps build a community that feels like home. Vikki finds sharing her ancestors’ stories is a way to help deliver justice and undo Indigenous erasure.

Academic decolonization (52.30)

Vikki believes that stereotypes perpetuated by non-Indigenous peoples should not be available for citation for students. Monique has found that lots of racist content gets perpetuated and elevated through citation. She grew up learning from her family members about the effects colonization had on Indigenous peoples and wants to work to help future generations “feel like they belong on their ancestral homelands”. Her goal is to visit the tribes whose lands she works on to talk about functional learning and build relationships by attending cultural ceremonies as an example for her children. 

Looking ahead (1.04.04)

Vikki is looking forward to organizing more Karuk Indigenous Women’s TREX to bring back more feedback to the prescribed fire world. She also wants to organize more events for women in fire, especially queer or trans folks in fire to create a safe space for them. Vikki highlights the condition of Indigenous peoples in Palestine and urges listeners to consider how they can support the Indigenous communities there.

Send in your comments and feedback to the hosts of this podcast via email: [email protected] and [email protected]. 

If you liked this podcast, please check out YourForest podcast too, rate and review it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend and send your feedback and comments to [email protected].