Gideon Lichfield and Lauren Goode are joined by c, or as she is more widely known, Grimes. Earlier this year, she launched elf.tech, a website where her fans can use AI to build their very own Grimes songs based on her vocals and stems. They talk about why c wants to push the boundaries of AI art, and why, despite being a techno-optimist at heart, she’s worried about our AI future.

Check out the Big Interview with c by Steven Levy in the September issue of WIRED. If you missed our episode with Puja Patel, the editor in chief of Pitchfork, about the new wave of generative AI in music—and AI-generated Drake—you can catch up here.