#235: Link’s new obsession is Our Flag Means Death. They talk it through, as a crew.

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona and I am joined by Marc Cuiriz

Marc Cuiriz 0:22
Hello.

Josué Cardona 0:23
Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:24
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:14
and Link Keller.

Josué Cardona 0:25
Hiiii

Josué Cardona 0:27
Link. What are we talking about today?

Link Keller 0:29
Today we’re talking about our flag means death. A fairly recent HBO Max show about pirates. And the pirates. Oh, they’re queer. And I love it so much! ooooooh!

Josué Cardona 0:49
If you really love a show, like if you say you love the show, like how many times have you watched it? I mean, come on.

Link Keller 0:56
I am halfway through my seventh rewatch of this show.

Josué Cardona 1:02
You love the show.

Link Keller 1:03
now, I do not I do not rewatch shows like like this in this like, like, I will. I will rewatch a show. You know, a year later. Like I did that with Russian doll. I did that with Buffy a couple of times. You know, two, three years in between a rewatch. I’ll be like, Oh, well, you know what, I love that show. It feels good. I want to rewatch it. This is the first time I have ever, ever finished the last episode. immediately clicked back. Episode One. We’re starting over again immediately.

Josué Cardona 1:43
And that happened six times.

Link Keller 1:46
I paced it out a little bit more in between. I you know, I watched Russian doll Season Two and I’ve been watching some anime and stuff. I’ve been adding some other things in in between but it’s it came out in March. And I think I started watching it at the end of March. Yeah, yeah. Seven times. That’s it’s a lot. I am obsessed.

Josué Cardona 2:15
Why? Why, Link?

Link Keller 2:18
So a couple of reasons that I think we’ll touch on probably all of them but the queerness is the biggest reason. It is starring Rhys Darby and Taika Waititi, who I love. I have enjoyed their work for several years. What We Do In The Shadows is a big one that a lot of people are familiar with, which I also really loved that show did not immediately rewatch that one. Like the pirates. But yeah, yeah, I it is it is so it’s not subtle queer. It is. It is a queer show. There are queer characters, there are several couples confirmed. Like it’s beautiful. And it’s it’s it’s like a comedy show is how it is like, promoted and it is funny, but it is honestly it’s like a rom com. It’s a gay pirate rom com. And I didn’t realize that I had a pirate ship shaped hole in my heart until this sailed into my heart it is I just love it so much. It’s beautiful. It’s funny, it’s endearing and it’s not queerbaiting and it’s fantastic. i Yeah. i I don’t know probably on my third rewatch. I was like okay, but you guys like you’re gonna watch it right? and we’re going to do an episode on it. Right right guys? So I softly and then more fervently bullied you guys into watching this show. So what did you guys think about it?

Josué Cardona 4:21
Did everyone watch the show? Okay, Lara what do you think of the show?

Lara Taylor 4:28
I liked the show a lot. For some reason. I didn’t get into it until I had to get a couple episodes in. But like I think that’s me with most shows. I don’t the exposition is hard for me, but I loved it. Um, I want a season two like right now right now, because I want to know what happens. Also, the queerness really got to me in some sweet moments and funny moments but not one Like the gays were the butt of the joke moments, right? Like, it’s it was beautiful. And I am also obsessed with pirates. So and I was obsessed with pirates before the gay pirate show.

Josué Cardona 5:13
I thought Vikings were your thing?

Lara Taylor 5:16
They are my thing

Link Keller 5:17
there’s a lot of overlap in that Venn diagram.

Lara Taylor 5:19
They’re on boats and they fight.

Josué Cardona 5:21
are vikings Pirates?

Link Keller 5:23
sort of

Lara Taylor 5:24
Probably maybe they do the same things as pirates. They’re just older.

Marc Cuiriz 5:30
just older? Yeah, like I know what you mean.

Lara Taylor 5:35
as in like years decades

Josué Cardona 5:38
once you hit 40 you’re a viking

Lara Taylor 5:44
so Josué we’re pirates now

Josué Cardona 5:45
you’ll be a pirate you’ll be a viking next year.

Lara Taylor 5:47
so will you

Josué Cardona 5:50
you. okay. Marc reactions?

Marc Cuiriz 5:58
Well, I loved the first episode. And I will admit that as all I watched so far,

Josué Cardona 6:06
oh no, we’re booting you. eject.

Marc Cuiriz 6:11
I’ve been wanting to really just sit down and binge it because I really loved the first episode. Like it was to the point where I like I didn’t want to watch and then have to, like, Stop, like, halfway through because something else was happening or like, I had to go do something. Plus, this is like the last like, this has been like the last two weeks of like, my, my semester. So like, I had, like, eight page, like single spaced papers that I needed to write. Like, I had a whole bunch of stuff. And I mean, I still have stuff I have to do by the end of this week.

Josué Cardona 6:40
Marc, Marc, Marc, I mean, look

Marc Cuiriz 6:43
it’s no excuse. It’s no excuse. It’s gay pirates. I get it,

Josué Cardona 6:46
you’re new, you know, you’re a new cast member. And then you come here and you break Link’s heart. So unbelievable

Lara Taylor 6:53
the last person who broke Link’s is gone

Josué Cardona 6:56
we got rid of them

Link Keller 6:57
okay but, you watch you watched the pilot, and I am gonna give you credit for that because that is more than the other person did

Marc Cuiriz 7:07
i have also

Lara Taylor 7:08
that’s true

Josué Cardona 7:09
in the time to watch the pilot of our flag means that you could have watched most of

Lara Taylor 7:15
over the garden wall.

Josué Cardona 7:18
so you’re good

Marc Cuiriz 7:19
Exactly. I will also say though, I have also watched every single tik tok about it, that Link has sent me so

Lara Taylor 7:26
Okay, okay,

Marc Cuiriz 7:27
I’ve at least put in that effort. But no, I I did also I did start like part of Episode Two. And then that’s when I stopped it. And then I got upset and I got really agitated cuz I was like, I don’t want to stop I want to keep watching it. I just didn’t have the time to do it. So after this week, I’m definitely going to go through and watch it and then I’m going to be two weeks behind and all the gay pirate stuff, you guys are going to be way past it. And I’m going to just be catching up to it. But I have full intentions but like I said I really just thoroughly enjoyed it. It’s a nice different take on carry on a main character that I was already familiar with. And then just kind of seeing the spin on it and seeing the story continue on essentially was great. I loved it. I love the humor is fantastic.

Josué Cardona 8:14
Explain that. Explain what you just mean. What do you mean why are you familiar with the main character are one of the main primary characters of the show?

Marc...

#324: Marc went to Disney World for the first time and wanted to talk about that experience. Link and Lara share their Disney stories and talk about healing your inner child.

Link Keller 0:12
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network, where we believe that we are people who consume media and want to talk about it and understand each other better. Man, I started out really strong there and then panicked. Okay, all right, hold on. Okay. Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy. We believe that you can better understand yourself and the people you care about through the media that you care about. Still not great. You know what, it’s fine. We’re gonna keep going. This week is marc’s topic, and I’m joined by Marc and Lara.

Marc Cuiriz 1:04
Hello,

Lara Taylor 1:05
hello.

Link Keller 1:07
Take it away, Marc

Marc Cuiriz 1:08
That was very sudden. And for the record, this is all staying in the episode.

Link Keller 1:12
Oh, god

Lara Taylor 1:12
absolutely.

Marc Cuiriz 1:14
Yeah, this is 100%

Link Keller 1:14
I really thought I was gonna have it and I am sweating! oh my god.

Lara Taylor 1:20
If only Josué was here to see it.

Link Keller 1:24
Maybe I’m gonna blame it. I’m gonna I’m gonna blame it on that.

Marc Cuiriz 1:27
And you know, wouldn’t be a GT episode. If Link wasn’t sweating.

Link Keller 1:31
Honestly, true. That’s true.

Marc Cuiriz 1:33
So yes. So in this, this episode, or this week, I really wanted to talk about kind of like, the idea of reclaiming your childhood, a little bit as an adult. And also, I just really wanted to talk about my recent trip to Disney, because that’s where I went for my honeymoon.

Link Keller 1:50
Yay, Disney.

Marc Cuiriz 1:52
Yeah. So to kind of like kick into kickstart this episode. What I mean by like, reclaiming your childhood is sort of like being able to do things or experience things that like, are typically associated with childhood things like, like going to amusement parks and things like that, like that’s something that like you do as adults, but like, it’s really like cherished as a child or something like Disney in and of itself, like Disney movies are very cherished, like they’re their childhood movies for, you know, a lot of people. And for some people, like, that’s something that they don’t always necessarily get to experience, or that experience becomes tainted in some way, shape, or form, whether that’s, you know, through, you know, things going on at home, or someone just being able to severely distort the memory of something that was once good. And then as an adult, you go back to it, and you sort of retake it for yourself, and you are basically overriding that sort of memory with something good. So like, for me, I never got the chance to go to Disney. This is my very first time ever going to Disney. And, you know, for someone like Lara, who is a Disney child,

Lara Taylor 3:09
I am so shocked Marc

Marc Cuiriz 3:11
I know, right? Just I, you know, Call it a hunch that you just happen to be going to Disney for many, many years. But for me, like that’s something I never got something I never was able to experience as a child. Really, because it just was not feasible for my family. Like, you know, I went to amusement parks like, like here in Illinois there Six Flags, or I went to Cedar Point in, in Ohio, like those were things that I was still able to do. So it’s not like I was fully robbed of that. But like that Disney experience. And so going to Disney and seeing all these rides of like, it’s a small world or like the Peter Pan’s Flight or Space Mountain like things that like I heard about all the time growing up, but never experiencing and now experiencing it as an adult. Like, it felt good. And also kind of felt like it felt bittersweet to a small extent. Like it was like, Oh, this is really cool. I’m so glad to get to experience this now. I just wish I could see it felt this when I was a kid though. Like, you know, like, I’m sure like, I don’t have you guys have had anything like that, like things that you’ve missed out on as a kid that you experienced as an adult.

Lara Taylor 4:32
Trying to think of an example that but Marc, I want to know if you got your first visit button.

Marc Cuiriz 4:37
I did and I got my happily ever after button.

Lara Taylor 4:41
Good. Good. Both very important.

Marc Cuiriz 4:44
They are very, very important.

Lara Taylor 4:45
I don’t know, I’ll have to keep thinking and see if I can come up with something I don’t think I ever left my childhood behind. I think I’m a person who thinks that children’s things are not just for children. And we can keep doing them whenever we want. But it does remind me of the fact that the reason that I am such a Disney child and went to Disneyland all the time, is because my mom was 10, when Disneyland opened

Lara Taylor 5:17
, and her father promised her, that he would take her, and he never did. So the first time she got to go to Disneyland was when she was like, first got together with my dad. And so she got to reclaim her childhood, which was a crappy childhood, and get to go to Disneyland. And she wanted her kids to be able to experience that all the time. Way to break that intergenerational trauma and take your kids to the happiest place on earth over and over and over. And now my kids are going to be forced to go over and over and over. But yeah, so your experience is not like a solo journey. Other people have gone through that, too.

Marc Cuiriz 6:05
Yeah, I definitely feel like I never really kind of felt like alone in that sort of aspect of things. But it is like, and I’m also the kind of person that like, I feel like I’ve never officially grown up like I am still very much a child. off to my left here, I have all my silly little knickknacks, I got my, you know, stuffed Kirby and everything like I am,

Lara Taylor 6:25
that doesn’t mean you’re a child.

Marc Cuiriz 6:27
But like, I 100% still engage in imaginative play when I’m home alone. Like, there’s no no shame in that for me. So like, I’m definitely in that boat. And I understand, like, I’m not alone, it’s just, I don’t know, like, I don’t know, if anybody would have like, sort of like the same experience that I did have, like, this bittersweet feeling of this is really awesome, I really love and I’m enjoying being here, and I’m totally geeking out and having the best time and at the same time, it’s like, you know, I could have had this as a child, if circumstances were just a little different, you know, like, I didn’t grow up in the best of homes, I definitely would say that I did have more of, you know, opportunities and privileges than most kids. But I’m also I think it’s because, like, for me, I started off relatively well off like in, you know, mid, like middle class. And then I, when I was like 10, or 11, I witnessed it all get taken away from me, like, I then dropped to lower lower class basically, just really, really struggling and getting to a point where I didn’t even know when, when I was going to eat next. So like to have, like, have those things and then suddenly lose that ability, and then have to essentially grow up. You know, way too soon about it and losing those experiences. I think that’s kind of like where I’m at in terms of like, things like that. So like, like going to universal or going to Disney or, like medieval times like that was like those are like things that like are cherished or ...

#323: Link read Truth of the Divine, a book about the ramifications of first contact. They and the GT crew chat about aliens as metaphors for immigrants and various “othered” groups and how these media reflect the historical and current patterns of human behaviors between social groups.

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. Here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined today by Marc Cuiriz.

Marc Cuiriz 0:22
Hello,

Josué Cardona 0:24
Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:25
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:26
and Link Keller.

Link Keller 0:27
Hiiii

Josué Cardona 0:29
Link. What are we what are we talking about today?

Link Keller 0:31
we are talking about aliens in general, but more specifically, I just finished reading a book called Truth of the Divine by Lindsay Ellis, which is the second book in the Noumena series that she is writing. And it was real good. And I thought it had a lot of cool things that we could touch on and talk about aliens in general. But yeah,

Link Keller 0:57
just aliens?

Link Keller 0:58
aliens!

Josué Cardona 0:58
Yeah, not what was what was it specifically about? Like, what’s playing out in that story that that like resonated with you and thought it would be a good conversation starter.

Link Keller 1:09
So a main plot point in the second book is talking about how the US government is responding to aliens being a thing and also being in America. And trying to argue whether or not aliens should get human rights if human rights should apply to them. Or if they should create a separate status for them which in the book, they refer to it as the third option, which is giving them some human rights. And that leads to a philosophical debate about personhood

Lara Taylor 1:54
about inalienable human rights?

Link Keller 1:57
Yes. Alien, right in the word. And basically talking about how a majority of the people who are arguing that aliens shouldn’t just get human rights are using arguments that are frequently used by fascists to dehumanize certain groups of people. And our main character Cora is deeply connected with one of the aliens that is there. The aliens name is ampersand. Through most of the series, he’s got a couple of different names, but ampersand is what she calls him. And they have a special alien connection that allows them to feel each other’s feelings to a certain extent. Not mind reading, but more empathy connection. And they are both traumatized people. And their trauma impacts each other and they care deeply about each other. But also sometimes they harm each other because it’s very difficult to deal with trauma and how it affects you emotionally and physically and having that relationship play out while they are also being sort of representative of the whole concept of how aliens should be treated by Americans. American government, humans in general. It’s a It’s It’s good stuff. It’s good stuff it The book takes place in 2007 2008. Which is actually it’s very funny in axioms and the first book george bush gets impeached because he hid he hid the existence of aliens from people. It’s it’s just that part made me laugh a lot. I thought that was very funny is like, what a fun little alternate history.

Josué Cardona 4:04
it’s too much. You hid too much.

Link Keller 4:07
Basically, it was like, a final straw.

Josué Cardona 4:10
you lied. This is this. You went too far.

Link Keller 4:12
you keep getting caught in lying to people

Josué Cardona 4:15
fool me once fool me….

Link Keller 4:17
Yes, yeah. But yeah, I think I think it’s a really timely conversation to have. It takes place in 2007 2008. But it feels very modern in that the way that we apply labels to groups of people and give them certain access to certain rights, and how those things are changing. Like the rules are made up we make them up and so we, how we apply them and then how we rationalize how we apply those rights to people is very interesting. I think it’s important conversation. In general, but especially in the past couple of years with Black Lives Matter, and immigration, and the way our government treated COVID and people with disabilities or previous existing illnesses, and how our government is very quick to just feel like you’re a person, except that you’re not like a full person who deserves all of the rights. And using aliens as a way to have those kinds of conversations, I think, is a nice Geek Therapy way of doing an uncomfortable thing. But in a fun, fictional way.

Josué Cardona 5:42
It sure is. So I just had a very intense conversation related to this on on conspiracy of light, which is another one of our podcasts, that’s that one’s less accessible than this one. That’s a deep dive into Babylon 5, a 25 year old Sci Fi series. But the thing that we talked about specifically was that there are we’re talking about right now we’re talking about the context of and I mean, in this conversation from, from the book is like the dehumanization, but it’s also about separation. And, and I love the idea that there’s only two like one representative from the side that can really understand each other to that point, so I have questions about how different the aliens are from us, that I want to get to in a second. But I want to I want to say that the conversation that I had with Woody on conspiracy of late, was about a point in Babylon five, where there are groupings of races of aliens. And it’s like, We are the bottom rung in terms of how long we’ve been in the universe. And then there’s others that have been like that are that are way older than us, and they’ve evolved so differently, and just view us very differently. And then there’s a whole other group beyond that, who were there before, even them? And they’re almost incomprehensible to us. Right. And I and I think it’s a, it’s a metaphor about how a lot of this stuff happens, right? It’s like, all these differences come up, and then you just, I think some of it, a lot of it is malicious. But a lot of it happens in a way that it’s, it’s hard to understand each other, right? Like, I mean, that’s, that’s allowed what I love to do, that we do here, right that we we talk about things that are popular, because all sorts of different people enjoy, you know, sci fi, and can get into a conversation about this and maybe find some common ground and understanding just the fact that we both liked the same thing, or enjoyed a thing, or felt a certain way about a thing allows us to connect in a way that is sometimes really, really hard. And it can even help overcome, you know, the different types of language barriers and experiences. So I’m curious, how different are the aliens in this saga, this this trilogy from humans.

Link Keller 8:27
So a lot of that aspect is talked about in the first book. They are what what the what the aliens referred to as as post organic, they have an organic like brain and brainstem, but they exist inside of it’ss not, like robot but like robot bodies, basically. They are often described as being sort of like Velociraptor shaped, they are bigger than humans, they are because of this non organic form, they are stronger and able to withstand, you know, more. They don’t have soft squishy human bodies, like we do. But it is revealed through conversations between Cora and ampersand that they have, you know, they have language, they have social structures, they have a hierarchy of you know, th...

#322: Lara, Marc, Link, and Josué discuss Turning Red. We cover the multifaceted representation and the cringe of being a young teen.

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network, here at Geek Therapy we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:22
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:23
Link Keller,

Link Keller 0:24
sup party people.

Josué Cardona 0:26
And Marc Cuiriz.

Marc Cuiriz 0:27
Hello,

Josué Cardona 0:28
Lara, it is your turn this week.

Lara Taylor 0:31
It’s my turn. And there’s a new new Disney Pixar movie

Josué Cardona 0:36
take that Happiest Pod on Earth.

Lara Taylor 0:38
That’s what we’re gonna talk about. We’re gonna talk about turning red.

Josué Cardona 0:45
Yeah, I brought it up at work. And someone was like, what is that? I don’t know what it is. And then we explained and then they were ashamed that they didn’t remember what happened. When we brought it up. As, as he should have been,

Marc Cuiriz 0:59
you know, I had somebody I had somebody else talk about it at work. And they’re like, I fell asleep through that in during that movie twice. And I was like, what? Excuse me how?

Lara Taylor 1:10
It was so good.

Marc Cuiriz 1:11
It really it really was. But I asked them, like, how could you fall asleep? They’re like, I don’t know. I just I just kept falling asleep. And I was like, well

Lara Taylor 1:18
do they have narcolepsy?

Marc Cuiriz 1:20
Possibly.

Josué Cardona 1:21
But what’s so good about it Lara? Hmm, why do you want to talk about it? What’s the what’s great about this movie?

Lara Taylor 1:25
Well, I wanted to talk about this movie before I saw it because they have to not one but two diabetic characters on in the movie. But that was kind of anticlimactic when I watched the movie.

Link Keller 1:38
Were there two?

Lara Taylor 1:39
There were two.

Link Keller 1:40
I only saw the one, Stacy.

Josué Cardona 1:42
So I saw zero I didn’t notice at all. When we talked about it earlier. I even made the diabetes reference. And then I thought, wait a minute. I just saw the movie. I don’t remember, diabetes reference?

Lara Taylor 1:55
To two girls have sensors on their arm. The funny thing is this movie takes place in the early 2000s. When we didn’t have those sensors, that sensor technology

Josué Cardona 2:07
this is taking place in Canada, though. Did Canada have sensors

Lara Taylor 2:10
No.

Josué Cardona 2:10
but they have health care than us right no No, they didn’t.

Link Keller 2:14
the technology did not exist yet.

Lara Taylor 2:16
It did not exist yet. It’s just like, when we talked about on the diabetes podcast episode, we did Josué. When in panic room. The daughter had a sensor on her wrist. And that was not available to anyone under the age of 18. At the time, and she was like 15. So yeah, still representation. Good. They had creators that were diabetic. And that’s why there are two characters, but no mention of what these things on these kids arms are, or anything like that. They were very minor characters, but I appreciated it.

Josué Cardona 2:58
it’s a World. It’s an alternate, you know, parallel world where everything’s exactly the same, except that people can turn into red pandas. And

Lara Taylor 3:08
and they had sensor technology for diabetics earlier. Exactly. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate that. I appreciate that. There are so many other things about this movie that I loved. I don’t know. I could go into more of those things now. But I want to hear what other people liked about the movie. And then I guess I can go into more of my, my things, but I just I really liked it. It was a lot of fun. I don’t think I’ve laughed that hard in a while.

Josué Cardona 3:36
Marc, you were defending it now to what’s it? What’s, uh, What’s so great about this movie?

Marc Cuiriz 3:42
Well, I just, I liked how like, it really is giving it from like, the, like, the pre adolescent, like, right into the cusp. It’s giving you that fresh perspective on on what growing up is like it like it reminds like, parents what it was like growing up and understanding that like, hey, as, as your kids grow up and start to discover who they are, like, it’s important that you give them the freedom to make these discoveries because the harder you try to hold on to the chain, the more they’re going to push back at at you and you know, there were some things that I kind of like related to like, feeling good enough and trying to get parental approval. My will say though, I was physically cringing within the first like two minutes of the movie just because of how like accurate it was in terms of like the awkwardness of it but like also owning it and I was like Oh, that’s really cringy but I Okay, I’m here for it. Let’s ride it out. And then it dissipated and I was like, okay, I’m okay, now. That the whole intro sequence. It’s done. All right now now I’m here for the ride.

Josué Cardona 4:56
Link What are your thoughts?

Link Keller 4:58
I really enjoyed it, turning red, I love red pandas. I was very excited to get lots of red panda screen time. I liked the family dynamics. I loved the friend group. And I had several moments where I’m like, oh, it’s me, because I was also in eighth grade in 2002, 2003. So yeah, I was like, Oh, the big example is when Miriam gives Mei, the mixed CD or the burned CD. I was like, oh, like, there was one I still I still have a ton of them. But like there was there’s a period of time where I would just borrow people’s full, like CD binder cases and take them home and burn all of them and then make mix CDs for my friends. Yeah, that one. That took me back even harder than the Tamagotchi did.

Josué Cardona 6:04
The young people in the audience burning a CD means making a copy of it on fire.

Lara Taylor 6:10
not even just making a copy, but making a playlist of your own and then burning it.

Marc Cuiriz 6:16
Listen, I made a burns. I made a mix CD in like 2018 Okay, I know what it’s all about. I made I made one for my now wife. It was really sweet. Really cute. I even like went out and like, bought got like a blank. Like, like a CD, like

Link Keller 6:38
jewel case?

Marc Cuiriz 6:39
Yeah. And like, and I like I made like a custom like cover and like the back with like a plate like the the song lists on it. It was for like an anniversary. So I’m young. I was probably I think I was in like second or third grade in 2002. But I’m not that young. I know these things. I know what a floppy disk is.

Josué Cardona 7:00
I wasn’t I wasn’t saying it for you. And I was saying just in general. Like

Marc Cuiriz 7:04
I felt

Josué Cardona 7:05
listeners

Marc Cuiriz 7:07
I felt directly called out.

Josué Cardona 7:08
I’m sorry, you felt that way. A burn on cd means something Yeah, that means different things today than it did back then. It’s just what’s the CD, it’s Look, I’m just, I’m just trying to cover our bases. We don’t lose anybody. I enjoyed the movie a lot, too. I haven’t haven’t talked about my niece in a while. I mean, my niece and nephew. But I thought of my niece a lot during during this movie. Because when whenever I’m with her, or she tells me about ...

#321: Marc brings a deeply philosophical question to the team: Are we capable of change? We touch on media examples of role models we strive to emulate and the lived experiences (read: parents) that shape our thoughts and behaviors. Compassion and introspection help us to create the changes we want to see.

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is JosuéCardona. And I’m joined by link Keller.

Link Keller 0:22
Hello,

Josué Cardona 0:24
Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:25
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:26
Marc Cuiriz

Marc Cuiriz 0:27
Hello,

Josué Cardona 0:28
Marc, it is your turn this week

Marc Cuiriz 0:32
it is my turn. Okay. Yeah, so it for this one. And I posted this a lot in the discord very, very briefly where I said, I think I’m having an existential crisis. So I kind of wanted to hear your guys’s opinions on this,

Lara Taylor 0:46
we have an existential crisis on the show, like every week,

Marc Cuiriz 0:50
that is true,

Lara Taylor 0:51
you’re in the right place.

Marc Cuiriz 0:53
After all, 300 of them, I am well versed in your existential crises. So this came up in my last therapy session, where I was talking about the ideas of change, because you know, growing up, dealing with all the crap I’ve had to go through, I’ve always made the conscious choices to be the exact opposite of what I grew up with. So instead of like hiding my emotions, I chose to openly show them and let them be seen, instead of being closed off or aggressive. I was calm and kind and empathetic, and so on and so forth. But now, as I’m getting older, I’m sort of realizing that I’m kind of falling into patterns that I’ve seen before. You know, growing up, and I was like, the question that came up was, are we as people and humans really like blank canvases where we can choose to change and create ourselves, however we so choose? Or is there some sort of like, pre determined behaviors that we kind of learn, as you know, we’re babbies and into young children, that no matter how hard we try to change those things, or better them or in whatever the case is, there are still hints of those always going to let that are always going to kind of shine through and kind of be seen and it’s just something that’s like, you’re kind of stuck with.

Josué Cardona 2:26
Welcome to GT Radio we’re getting philosophical here.

Marc Cuiriz 2:32
Basically,

Lara Taylor 2:32
not a tough question at all, Mark,

Josué Cardona 2:35
nature versus nurture. I will I will share that. I too, have been motivated throughout my entire life by what I call negative role models. I don’t know if that’s the I don’t think that’s like the correct term. But that’s what I’ve always called them. So I’ve tried to be the opposite of a bunch of people.

Link Keller 3:00
anti role model?

Josué Cardona 3:01
A what?

Link Keller 3:02
anti role model role anti model. Something there

Lara Taylor 3:07
yeah, yeah, yeah.

Josué Cardona 3:09
A Roll away? model? I don’t know, but but I’ve used that term, a lot.

Lara Taylor 3:17
a nat one model.

Josué Cardona 3:20
But But I too, have learned that I am more like some of those people than I thought. And it is it was not a happy realization at all. I mean, I’ve always I’ve always looked to fictional characters as as role models. Those have always been in my real life. I’ve never had, you know, like, people close to me who I felt were role models. And I Yeah, yeah, no, I’m those are My initial thoughts while I sit over here in this corner process a bit somebody else talk.

Lara Taylor 4:05
My initial thought is that I think is a combination of both right? We can change where I’m a therapist, I think people can change otherwise, why bother? If you’re going with that painting metaphor, maybe we’re not a blank canvas, maybe someone painted an oil painting and the oil is still malleable, and we can move it around and change it and make it different, it can look different. But those things are still there and influence us whether we like it or not. I don’t know that. That’s my thought.

Lara Taylor 4:42
Link?

Link Keller 4:52
I also come from a background of having people close to me that I um especially as a teenager was very vehemently, like, that’s what not to do, I’m going to do whatever that is not. And I have coped with moments in my life where realizations that when you are in novel situations, you don’t have a lot of time to think about stuff. And you react in the moment. And you realize that that reaction is based off of that playbook that you didn’t want to use. But that’s the playbook that you had. And it takes a lot of introspection to be able to recognize when that is happening in the moment. I don’t know if I’m very good at it is something you know, I think that that’s probably a lifelong training thing. But people people are capable of change, I would say that firmly people are capable of change. I think even when we are recreating behaviors, that because the context of our own life is different, that the behaviors are different because of that context. Now, it can have outcomes that are positive or negative, mixed bag, usually mixed bag. But I think it is so important to remember that the context matters, that even if you are recreating shitty behaviors of your parents, like that was in the 90s 80s 70s. It’s like now we’re now and that’s

Lara Taylor 6:48
just to be clear, no one here was alive in the 70s,

Link Keller 6:51
I was talking about our parents,

Lara Taylor 6:53
okay, okay.

Josué Cardona 6:59
Lara, you weren’t?

Lara Taylor 6:59
I am a month older than you stop it. I’m gonna keep defending myself. Because Josué called me old last week.

Link Keller 7:07
I think honestly, one of the big reframing moments for me was realizing that a lot of the stuff it’s the same is the same for our parents, right, that they did things that they swore to themselves that they would never do, because their parents did it to them. And you just unconsciously you do it, you pass it on, you express anger at a situation that really doesn’t require anger, because that’s the shorthand that you learned from your dad. Really showing myself there. But I think

Josué Cardona 7:45
hypothetically,

Lara Taylor 7:47
hypothetical situation

Link Keller 7:49
I think having that realization of like, this happens to literally everybody really helped me be more compassionate towards myself, which that compassion gives space for me to actually have that moment of introspection, and, you know, next time be able to be like, oh, oh, I’m getting that feeling right now that I’m about to do something that is based in, in the past, and it doesn’t need to be I can, I can take this moment and change, I can do something different, I can make a different choice. But it definitely it took a lot of years and a lot of really trying to see specifically parents as real, multifaceted people who have all the same bullshit from their history that affects who they are currently. And that is, that is me, that is my parents, those my grandparents, as their parents we are all just doing our best

Lara Taylor 8:54
Abuela and the Madrigals

Link Keller 8:56
absolutely great example right there.

Josué Cardona 9:01
Marc, are we ...

#320: Link watched Kimi (2022) and wanted to talk about the portrayal of the main character’s agoraphobia and anxious behaviors. Josué and Lara discuss how context impacts our ability to overcome anxiety, and how other media tries to represent the experience.

[PASTE TRAN

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:21
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:24
and Link and a baby.

Link Keller 0:26
Wahh

Josué Cardona 0:30
Link, It’s your turn. What are we talking about This week?

Link Keller 0:33
we are talking about a film that came out recently on on HBO Max called Kimi

Josué Cardona 0:41
starring Zoë Kravitz as Kimi.

Josué Cardona 0:44
Starring Zoë Kravitz as Angela Childs.

Josué Cardona 0:49
oh

Link Keller 0:49
Kimi is the name of this world’s Siri, Alexa, the Smart Voice machine that is in it inside of everybody’s houses and is always recording. And Angela works as a moderator functionally, she, she gets the audio pieces from when Kimi is marked as like making a mistake. And she goes in and she’s training Kimi to be to be better. That’s that is a real job that people do. She

Josué Cardona 1:30
so in the movie, they make it sound like nobody else does that. And, and what sets Kimi apart from the other ones, right. And they call them out by name. But like we’re special, because we have someone who’s like we have real people fixing, you know, and working in the background.

Link Keller 1:51
Yes.

Josué Cardona 1:52
But is that is that true?

Link Keller 1:55
I don’t know. I I have always assumed that real people are hands on in training AI to do things because its necessary

Lara Taylor 2:11
otherwise you get random things. Yeah.

Josué Cardona 2:13
Yeah. But to what extent though, right?

Link Keller 2:16
I hope not to the extent that is shown in Kimi,

Josué Cardona 2:20
that’s what I’m thinking. Right? Because the idea is like, machine learning is using tons of other references to learn so because that would be faster. And then in the movie, what they’re saying is, we are special because we still have that human element and like, like AI isn’t there yet. And so we have people doing this. And and yeah, I don’t I don’t know that I would call it moderation, right? I mean, exactly. But she

Lara Taylor 2:52
quality assurance?

Josué Cardona 2:53
I mean, it’s definitely like a QA role, for sure. It is definitely a training a training model, right. Like she is writing, like syntax. She’s like, this thing that a person says, Is this and she’s writing it in a way for the system to understand it in the future, because it didn’t understand it this time, but she does make the the comment at one point that she was a Facebook moderator. And, and kinda the Some similarities in just the the horrible things that she’s that she’s seen. Yeah. Yeah. But I thought that was really interesting to, to think of like to see someone in that role. Because like, we know that there are moderators out there. and we’ve talked about it in the past. I don’t remember if it was on this show, or on. I know we definitely talked about on PsychTech at some point.

Lara Taylor 3:52
I think we talked about it on this show.

Josué Cardona 3:55
Right?

Lara Taylor 3:55
Because we’ve I’ve talked about it with you.

Josué Cardona 3:57
Yeah.

Lara Taylor 3:58
Like yeah, the it was about video games and watching. Like, the artists and designers needing to watch violent material over and over and over again.

Josué Cardona 4:09
Yeah, that was a that was that. Was that a Headshots discussion, too?

Lara Taylor 4:14
We it might have been I mean, we did do some crossover.

Josué Cardona 4:17
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And and I remember

Link Keller 4:20
Yeah, I think it’s been on all all of them.

Josué Cardona 4:22
Yeah. Yeah. We haven’t talked about in a long time. And I don’t remember ever seeing this represented in a story. I’m sure you know, this. I’m sure there’s at least one law and order episode. Where we see someone in this role, but to see like a fictional dramatic, you know, version of this when you I mean, it’s gotta be like, you can’t even make a comedy show out of that because it’s too depressing. Like you can make a sitcom out of you know, people who are moderating social media.

Lara Taylor 4:58
You can try,

Link Keller 4:59
you could

Josué Cardona 5:00
But it would be it would it would just feel you’d be glossing over all of the real terrible things.

Link Keller 5:07
I imagine it would feel similar to Brooklyn nine nine’s final season in. It’s like, this is weird. This is not landing.

Josué Cardona 5:15
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and this movie. It does, it reminds me, you know, I mean, we haven’t even gotten to like, the anxiety stuff. But like, just this piece of it reminds me of part of our discussion about the Mitchell versus the machines. Right? It’s like, sure, that technology, we can talk about that technology, but also, like, let’s not ignore all of the terrible parts of this. I mean, and it is, you know, it is it is leaning into the big bad Corporation type of type of thing or people within the corporation with nefarious intent. But it doesn’t, it feels grounded, in a way. Because it is, you know, it is a device that we we there devices that we have at home that we don’t think about. I don’t think that I mean, some people do think about them this way. But But I think most people don’t.

Link Keller 6:18
I mean, a big part of what goes into designing these, this technology is to make it as unobtrusive as possible. And so there’s very much a encouragement from the user interfaces to be like, don’t don’t think about it. Like you don’t need to think about don’t even worry, don’t fret, your little minds, just, you know, it’s there. And you use it when you need to, and otherwise ignore its existence.

Josué Cardona 6:48
yeah.

Link Keller 6:50
Which is not great. But from a design perspective, like if that’s the intention, they nailed it. Yeah, okay. So basic plot of Kimi is that it takes place in the modern era, post, concurrently, COVID time, and Angela has agoraphobia. And so she works from home, and she does not leave her house. She’s very uncomfortable leaving her house. She has a lot of behaviors that she does that are built into to keep her safe and contained within her home. Which, you know, the agoraphobia aspect is always very interesting. Mental health stuff, but it fits in so nicely with the idea of like, Nah, dog, the whole world is supposed to be inside, like, many people are working from home and have to deal with like, Okay, can I get the things that I need from outside to come to where I am inside. So she’s, she’s working from home. And she gets a message to she’s listening to the audio recordings from Kimi speakers. And she’s going through and she’s fixing, you know, Kimi, teaching Kimi like, you know, that’s a slang term. And this is, you know, like a different pronunciation of something and all that stuff. And she overhears a recording, that sounds like a violent altercation between people. And she immediately tries to report this to people above her. And then, because it’s a thriller, movie, exciting thi...

#319: Josué thought we’d be talking about procrastination and the feeling of relief when you finally do the thing. But after some reflection, the team realized the power of friendship can help you do anything – even finish that game (or other media) you’ve been meaning to complete.

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy, we believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona joined by Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:21
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:23
and Link Keller,

Link Keller 0:24
what’s up, Friends?

Josué Cardona 0:25
What is up, everybody? It’s my turn to choose a topic this week. And ah, okay. That’s it. Let’s see, let’s see if we can follow along with where I’m going with this. Okay, so I’m gonna tell you story. A story. A long time ago, I forgot what was it 2017? maybe? a little game called the Breath of the Wild came out. It was it was amazing. It was so good. I loved it. So, so so much. I didn’t have a Nintendo Switch at the time. I was like, happened. I have a Wii U, I’m just gonna I’m just gonna play it on Wii U. And I played it and I beat the the four beasts. And then I, you know, all I had to do is get, you know, go to Hyrule Castle and defeat Ganon. And, and, but there were also lots of other things and Korok seeds and all that stuff. Anyway, so So then I don’t know why I didn’t get around to to go go to Ganon. And so when I got to switch, I, I decided that’s my favorite game. I’m just gonna start over, it’s fine. so then I play Breath of the Wild. And I beat the for the four beasts. And and yeah, I did not beat ganon again. There were a couple reasons for that. So fast forward to 2022. So five years later. And I decided, or a friend was playing the game. And I was like, oh, yeah, no, I’m, I’m like, for five years. I’m still saying I don’t know, but I’m gonna finish it soon. I’m gonna, you know, I’m still playing Breath of the Wild. And every now and then I go back. I go back, i got a motorcycle that has all this stuff. thing. And I think I played for a bit and I was thinking, what else do I need to do is like, oh, you know what? I didn’t do the trial of the sword. I do the trial of the sword, then. Then I’ll be stronger. And then then I’ll be ready to beat ganon. Right, then I’ll do it. And then maybe maybe that was last year, but earlier this year. 2022. I’m ready. I’m ready to play the game. And so a friend of mine is doing it. I’m like, This is it. I’m gonna I’m gonna finish it. I’m going to finish this game. Finally, stop this. This. This has to end, I need to finish this game. And I booted up and I immediately go oh, look, still trial of the sword. Maybe I should do that. Because then I’ll be ready. No, no, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let me let me not do this. I left that I finally beat the game. And I took like 15 minutes. Okay, well, I was I was strong enough. I was strong enough. But around that time that I decided I was reflecting upon why I have so many unfinished things like unfinished video games, unfinished projects, unfinished TV shows unfinished movies, like, I don’t know, there’s a lot of stuff that was unfinished. And I started thinking about how good it feels to complete something. And so it felt really really good to finish Breath of the Wild especially after all those years where it was kind of looming. And, and I started reflecting on other areas in my life anywhere I’ve I start things and I and I don’t finish them or for the reasons why so I want to talk about some of the reasons why I think I never finished Breath of the Wild until now. And some of the reasons why I haven’t finished other things and then some of the reasons why I haven’t finished other things in in my life. And and maybe the the benefits or the catharsis of actually finishing things. It’s it’s a lot I think it covers a lot of things, but it was that particular experience around Breath of the Wild and other geeky pursuits that made me reflect pretty hard on on how that’s a pattern in my life. Can either of you relate in any way?

Link Keller 4:43
Yes.

Josué Cardona 4:44
Yeah. In what way?

Link Keller 4:50
I have been a consistently gets to the last area level dungeon, of a video game. And I stop a stop playing for a couple of weeks. And then I go, Man, I should really finish that and I go back. And because I haven’t played in several weeks, I’m not I’m not good at it immediately. And so I go ugh it’s too hard. And I stop and I never play it again. I have gotten better about that in more recent years, but definitely, like, early adulthood, my late teens, early 20s is is just a huge swath of almost finished games. It was very much a pattern for me. I think, majority of the time. The reason was, is that finishing the game meant that I was I was done with it. And I didn’t want to be done with it yet. And so I would be functionally done with it because I’d stopped playing with it. But emotionally I’m not done with it yet. It’s still there. And so I can hold on to it. And the experience isn’t over yet. I’m not ready to let go of it. So I don’t! very, yeah.

Josué Cardona 6:16
That I mean, that is I think the main issue that I had with Breath of the Wild. I love that game so much that I could not bring myself to make it and

Link Keller 6:29
I have still not beat Ganon in breath of the wild.

Lara Taylor 6:32
I’m I still haven’t beat the camel in the desert. Because I can’t I just can’t can’t

Josué Cardona 6:40
that was pretty hard.

Link Keller 6:42
that was the hardest one

Josué Cardona 6:43
that was the hardest one for me.

Lara Taylor 6:44
I can’t Well, I was trying to do that one. And then I was like, You know what, I’m gonna go beat the other one, the whatever one what did i have to do? i had to beat, the bird. And I went did that and then I came back. I was like, I’m gonna beat this camel. Absolutely not. I just can’t, my hands will not let me do the thing I need to do and I know what I need to do. It’s just a matter of doing it. Which is a whole other thing in video games.

Josué Cardona 7:10
Mine was the other issue. Like I could do it, but I didn’t know what I had to do. Once I figured it out.

Lara Taylor 7:14
I will I will up that and I have never beaten a Legend of Zelda game.

Josué Cardona 7:21
Never? none of them?

Lara Taylor 7:22
Never. I have. I have watched someone beat Twilight Princess and watch someone beat ocarina of time. Technically, it was my copy of the game. So I guess maybe I beat it. But it was like a group play. But I’ve never beaten. I usually give up around the Water Temple. Yeah. But I am I am like, in the last couple years, I have beaten more video games than I have. Probably in the years before. I still have a lot of unfinished games. I don’t think it’s because I’m not ready. I think it’s because something I take long to finish a game. And something new and shiny comes out. And I really want to play that because I’m really excited about that thing. And I’ve been trying more and more to not do that. So,

Josué Cardona 8:14
okay, so we’ve got I don’t want it to end we’ve got it’s, it’s just too hard. And I’m stuck. Right. And so so I couldn’t I could not advance

Lara Taylor 8:22
or I’m taking my time and then something new comes along that I want. Yeah, mhmm

Josué Cardona 8:26
yeah. Yeah. Which which could be, um,

Lara Taylor 8:29
which I’m about to hit with horizon: Forbidden West and Tiny Tina’s wonderlands. Boom,...

#318: Lara and Special guest Kayla Devorak share some of the major emotional moments and therapeutic epiphanies they’ve had while playing Kids on Brooms with the CASTT Gamers group on Twitch. https://www.twitch.tv/castt_gamers/

Josué Cardona 0:12
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here Geek Therapy. We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by link Keller.

Link Keller 0:22
hiiiiii

Josué Cardona 0:23
Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:24
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:26
and special guests first time on. GT radio Kayla Devorak.

Kayla Devorak 0:32
Hello.

Josué Cardona 0:33
Devorak? Devorak? Devorak,

Kayla Devorak 0:36
Devorak

Josué Cardona 0:36
Devorak

Kayla Devorak 0:37
Yeah. Don’t say Devorak. That’s incorrect.

Josué Cardona 0:41
Thank you. Thank you for Yeah,

Lara Taylor 0:43
Josué is very specific, about pronouncing,

Kayla Devorak 0:45
thank you for asking

Josué Cardona 0:45
I want to make sure. I want to make sure it’s right. It’s important to me. Yeah. Yeah. Welcome. The reason why you’re here is because Lara, you know, we take turns picking a topic. And every week, you know, one of us goes, and we really bring up who’s gonna go? And I’ve been asking Lara, and she kept saying, like, oh, I don’t know, I don’t have an idea because I’ve been obsessed with something. And it gets, and the first week, okay, it’s fine. We can skip you. And then the second time, she said, I was like, Whoa, that’s your topic that I think that’s it. I think we

Lara Taylor 1:23
the first time was something else. But then it was my second time. And I was like, all that’s on my brain is buying this house. stuff at work. And this Friday night CASTT game we’ve been playing.

Josué Cardona 1:40
Please tell us more about that.

Lara Taylor 1:42
I got to explain everything?

Josué Cardona 1:45
Start with explaining CASTT, and then and then and then explain what’s happening on CASTT.

Lara Taylor 1:50
Here, Kayla, you want to explain?

Kayla Devorak 1:51
Hi, yeah, I can explain CASTT a CASTT it stands for community of applied spiritual, and therapeutic tabletop gamers. We are a Discord server of helping professionals who like to use tabletop role playing games, and board games in an applied manner. We also stream doing those things.

Lara Taylor 2:22
Yeah, more and more shows being added.

Kayla Devorak 2:25
We have Friday night casts, which is every Friday night at 9:30pm. Eastern on Twitch, I always forget the timezone transitions. And then we have every other Sunday is gays of our lives, which is an all queer cast playing queer games and talking about being queer. That’s every other Sunday. And then newly started is the tabletop transformations, which is the fourth Thursday of every month where Menachem and Tanya talk about how tabletop games can help us in our spiritual journeys. We have another show coming, but I can’t talk about that one yet. No.

Link Keller 3:11
For our listeners, you can check that out at Twitch tv slash CASTT.

Lara Taylor 3:17
With two Ts underscore gamers,

Kayla Devorak 3:20
yes, thank you.

Lara Taylor 3:21
Or on YouTube. were CASTT with two T’s gamers no underscore.

Kayla Devorak 3:30
That’s correct.

Lara Taylor 3:31
Yeah, yeah. And

Josué Cardona 3:32
that Discord server, how could we possibly find it or join? If we were so interested.

Kayla Devorak 3:41
We’re working on getting a submission form built out in our it’ll be in our link tree which you can access in our about page on Twitch.

Josué Cardona 3:53
Okay, we’ll put in the show notes. Yeah, okay. All right. So that’s CASTT. And then so so. So you’ve been playing a game.

Lara Taylor 4:03
We’ve been playing a game kids on brooms by if I had thing out

Kayla Devorak 4:10
Doug Levandowski.

Josué Cardona 4:13
On rolling for change. We’ve,

Lara Taylor 4:15
you’ve talked about kids on brooms and kids on bike.

Kayla Devorak 4:18
Yep, yep.

Josué Cardona 4:19
Yep. And they’ve played a campaign on there as well. And Menachem, which you mentioned before, has also been on rolling for change.

Lara Taylor 4:29
So kids on brooms, I started playing. The group that plays on Fridays had been playing games together since before I joined and then kids on brooms was the first game I played with them. Then we decided to do a bunch of other games and then stream and we streamed a bunch of other games and decided we really wanted to come back to the characters that we played in kids on brooms, and it’s been a very interesting, enlightening experience. I think it’s very interesting that we have a queer show. And yet most of like, what we’re going to talk about is like the queer journey in this relationship that our characters have. But this game is

Kayla Devorak 5:16
super gay

Lara Taylor 5:17
it is so gay. It’s so gay and so good. Um,

Link Keller 5:23
before you start describing your characters, could you give us a little quick synopsis of kids on brooms and how it sort of works and in the play style and everything?

Lara Taylor 5:37
Um, kids on brooms is like a rules light kind of game compared to d&d or any of that you do have dice. You have stats?

Link Keller 5:47
Do you use d 20 or D sixes?

Lara Taylor 5:50
a whole bunch of different die. Mm hmm.

Link Keller 5:54
I love that an excuse to use all of my clackies.

Lara Taylor 5:57
Exactly. So like you can have a D 20, in brawn and like, be able to beat things up, right? Or you can have a D 4 in brains and not make some good decisions. There’s each, like, we talked about playbooks. There’s tropes instead of classes or whatever. So in this one, it’s kids on broom, so it’s all I don’t want to say Harry Potter base, but Harry Potter magicians, that kind of stuff.

Link Keller 6:30
Hogwarts adjacent

Kayla Devorak 6:31
That’s the best way to explain it, Yeah,

Lara Taylor 6:32
yeah. Um, so you’ve got like, the firstborn caster. That’s my character. The haughty descendant that’s Kayla’s character. You’ve got unlikely ally. I’m trying to remember some of the Oh, teacher’s pet. There’s a whole bunch of good ones. Yeah. Yeah, a whole bunch of tropes, you answer questions based on that. There’s a lot of relationship building in the game. We asked each other relationship questions at the beginning of the game, each time we play. or not each time you play, each season, except sessions.

Kayla Devorak 7:20
During the character creation and world building. There are relationship questions that will ask you you roll a die, you roll the D 20. And whatever number you get is the question you ask. And you can you can ask a question about a character relationship that is negative, or positive, or you don’t know the person.

Lara Taylor 7:42
And then we built the world together in that we have a GM it is a GM game. Dustin is wonderful and created this world for us. But we get to have input too. And then we build in rumors that may be true or not help give him ideas on where to go and what we’re interested in in the world. This particular version, our first time playing, we were students at a high school in Yale, or not in Yale to in Salem, where we were deali...

#317: Link and Josué tell Lara about George Romero’s lost-then-remastered The Amusement Park, which is an emotional PSA about elderly abuse. The existential dread sets in, but the end point is finding compassion for those our society mistreats.

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about, my name is Josué Cardona. And I’m joined by my fellow co hosts, Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:22
Hey,

Josué Cardona 0:24
and Link Keller,

Link Keller 0:26
hello Fellow Olds

Josué Cardona 0:30
Lara’s the oldest person here remember, never forget. So,

Lara Taylor 0:35
by a month!

Josué Cardona 0:36
what are we talking about?

Link Keller 0:39
Today we are talking about a film that is available on shutter it is called the amusement park. And a little fun history. This was a sort of a PSA done by George Romero in 1973. And it got showed at like, one film festival, and then it got lost. And just a couple of years after George Romero’s death in 2017, like 2018 2019, they found some copies of this film and were able to restore it, and then they put it up on shutter. And so I watched it this last week, and again earlier today. And it was very interesting, and I thought it would make a good topic.

Josué Cardona 1:34
I agree

Link Keller 1:34
for us.

Josué Cardona 1:35
Yeah, no, the history of it is really interesting. Do you know any more that you describe that as a PSA? Did he make it? I mean, it’s obviously a PSA in the in the in like the definition, the dictionary definition, sense of the word because it has an introduction, or it’s telling you, right, he even says at the beginning and at the end, it is bookmarked with, like if you have been moved to action, there are organizations that you can go to, to support older individuals. So

Lara Taylor 2:08
that sounds like a PSA to me.

Link Keller 2:10
It was it was produced for the Lutheran Service Society of Western Pennsylvania and the Pitcairn crab Foundation, which is I assume, also in Pennsylvania, but yes, it was intended to be a PSA about elderly abuse. And I imagine that George Romero’s, like, I’m gonna zhuzh this up a little bit, I’m gonna get a little metaphorical I’m gonna get a little loosey goosey with it. And he, well, he Lincoln Maazel, the main character specifically says, we intend for you to feel the problem. To experience it, it is meant to be more of not a like, documentary. It is meant to be something that you feel emotionally when you watch this, less than an hour long film. So I think that it was successful in that.

Josué Cardona 3:08
Yeah, yeah.

Link Keller 3:10
It is. It is hosted on shutter, which is a horror streaming service. And it sort of rides the line of being horror. I find parts of it horrifying, but it’s not scary. Right,

Lara Taylor 3:24
but you can find things horrifying that are not horror.

Josué Cardona 3:28
I think it definitely falls into horror, though. Because, because it’s not in the sense that it’s scary, but that it’s tapping into fears.

Link Keller 3:36
Absolutely, yes.

Josué Cardona 3:37
These are like yeah, it’s it’s absolutely highlighting and exaggerating. Things that are terrifying. And, and you’re kind of bombarded by them. Right? It is like an overwhelming it’s a nightmare. Like, like I was watching. I was like this, this plays out, like a nightmare. In multiple ways

Lara Taylor 3:59
Is it your Nightmare Josué.

Josué Cardona 4:01
I mean, I think it’s a lot of people’s nightmare, even when they when it starts again, it has this it has this introduction by the by the actor who plays a main character. And one of the first things that that he says is that this is this is that people live their lives and are successful and hope to get to a point where then they can take it easy when they can retire. And they can reap the benefits of what they’ve of what they’ve created and what they’ve gained, right maybe what they’ve earned, and that there’s even an expectation that you would have, that society would recognize that that you contributed something like even that. You just have a lot of experience. To share, but that instead society turns its back on you and doesn’t help you and things get harder. And and so those two, it’s such a, it’s not at all what you think you’re building toward is kind of what it is kind of how he introduces it. And, and he’s just talking to the camera at the beginning, right? This is before the actual movie begins. Yeah, that’s just and he bookends that at the end, you know, with, with, like, kind of a quick recap. But that idea alone is like being alone not having someone to help you, or just being treated in this this terrible way. It’s, um, I think he made a list of all the worst things that could possibly happen to you, or all the things that you see happen to elderly people or that, you know, like happened to either grandparents or, you know, any complaint you’ve ever heard from someone in a nursing home. And then he kind of he built a park out of it, where all of those things are concession stands and attractions and part of the experience there.

Lara Taylor 6:13
That is not a park I want to go to

Josué Cardona 6:15
That’s it sounds like a nightmare. Right? It sounds it sounds like a like a nightmare. So So is it my nightmare? I think? I think I don’t, I hope that my life doesn’t turn out that way. But it, it most likely, a lot of those things will probably play out at some point.

Link Keller 6:36
Hopefully not all in an afternoon. but Yeah, yes.

Josué Cardona 6:43
Yeah, I have a lot of thoughts on it. A lot of thoughts on it. But I’m curious how you feel about it. Link

Link Keller 6:49
I decided I thought it was really cool. I particularly liked in one of the early scenes when Lincoln first goes out into the park and he’s looking around, and he’s seeing people having fun. And he goes, and he sees people lining up for a ride. And they have I wrote them down because it was so funny to me. They had signs and it said requirements for this ride. Individual income over 3500 must not suffer from and then it has a list of health issues, including diabetes, which I wrote down. And then

Lara Taylor 7:27
this should be on the diabetes podcast,

Link Keller 7:29
we should put it on the diabetes podcast. must pay cash, no credit accepted. And then it cuts to people being kicked out of line. And they’re like, why can’t we go on this ride? Why can’t we go on this ride and it cuts back to the last sign which says must not fear the unknown, which made me laugh so hard.

Lara Taylor 7:48
nobody can get on that ride

Link Keller 7:50
I don’t think it was supposed to be funny but it was very funny to me. Because it’s like, like, the first one is like you have to have enough money to participate. And then it’s like you can’t have any sort of disabilities to participate. And then it’s like, you have to have money now. Like it can’t be theoretical money. And then also like you, you can’t be afraid of the unknown is like, okay, so nobody goes on this ride, then what the heck. That’s what about you? Wait, wait, what was your experience?

Josué Cardona 8:23
Yeah, well, I mean, in addition to this, I like the idea that it does play out like a nightmare. Um, I think it’s, it was painful to watch it. Like I told a friend yesterday that I was gonna watch this, oh I’ll add it to...

#316: Josué, Lara, and Link discuss Eternals: the diverse cast, impossible choices, family dynamics, and argue whether or not Ikaris is a villain.

Josué Cardona 0:11
Welcome to GT radio on the Geek Therapy network. here at Geek Therapy We believe that the best way to understand each other and ourselves is through the media we care about. My name is Josué Cardona. I’m joined by link Keller.

Link Keller 0:20
Helloooo, nerds,

Josué Cardona 0:22
and Lara Taylor.

Lara Taylor 0:25
Hey, people,

Josué Cardona 0:28
people, geeks

Link Keller 0:30
party people

Josué Cardona 0:31
Alright, so So today we’re gonna talk about the Eternals the movie. Because I’ve never read comics. And so the reason why I want to talk about this, but there’s a few, there’s a few reasons I think it touches did there’s one main idea in it that I won’t really want to talk about, but I think it’s a great movie with. I mean, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the movie. And it has a lot of pretty fleshed out characters, and they each have very unique abilities and personalities. But the big idea that I wanted to discuss is kind of, you know, central to the film. So if you have not watched the Eternals and you do not want spoilers. Please go away. Come back. Come back later.

Lara Taylor 1:24
Watch it come back. It’s on Disney plus.

Josué Cardona 1:26
Yeah, yeah. If you don’t know how you feel about spoilers, go back to our spoiler episode. I forget what, what what number that is. But I think about that episode all the time. Spoilers for the spoiler episode. It’s about research that shows that when stuff is spoiled for you, a lot of people like you actually enjoy it more. It’s almost like there’s a build up. Oh, stuff. I think it’s, yeah, anyway, go check that out that episode. It’s a it’s a it’s it’s got to be like at least 150 episodes ago, it was a while it’s been a few years. It’s been a while. Time. So the Eternals What is it about the movie that I have not stopped thinking about? And this is the way I see it. I’m curious what both of you think, but I feel that there were no villains in the movie. And that everybody there just had, like a purpose that they were trying to fulfill. And there was no good there was no completely good solution. Like in The Avengers, like in end game, right. They, there’s that Tony Stark quote, where he says, You know, I want to make sure that we that we regain everything we lost and don’t lose anything that we’ve gained. Like, he’s like, I want to make sure that across the board. I don’t I don’t want to lose anything. Right. Like every win win win. It was the plan. And that was the the objective. And here in this movie, I feel like the eternals there’s no way. Right like everybody, there’s no way to please everybody is kind of is kind of the the message and the thing that stayed with me the most, and I haven’t stopped thinking about it since I watched the movie a couple weeks ago. Thoughts. Lara, you you disagree? your face your face is strongly disagreeing.

Lara Taylor 3:38
I disagree. I disagree. Because anytime we talk about villains, we talk about how they there are reasons for their villainy. I think that murdering your friends, your mentor, and lying to everybody and putting up this two-faced, like oh yeah, I should. Like, I’m fine with not being the leader. And you know, oh, no, I’m Ajak is dead. Like

Josué Cardona 4:17
so you think Ikaris is the villain

Lara Taylor 4:19
He’s such a liar. He’s a he’s a liar. I don’t know if he’s like, I also feel like Arishem is also a villain because I think that once again, lying to all of them, not let it like if they all knew what they were supposed to be doing. That might be I think my biggest problem is the lying, not the murder.

Josué Cardona 4:44
Obviously, well

Lara Taylor 4:44
except for murdering your friends. That’s that’s this backstabber-y

Josué Cardona 4:50
that does bother you.

Lara Taylor 4:52
It does bother me. Gotcha, but it’s pretty good. I do think that like, Yes, everyone was put in impossible situations. I understand that like The premise of the movie is billions of lives sacrificed so that more than billion billions of billions more can be brought into the world. I get that. Also, you’re taking away people’s agency and choice, and you are lying and and deceitful. And then there’s some murder. So like, not just like, destroying the whole planet genocide, murder, but like, personal. I’m killing you because I disagree with you murder. I’m luring you out here into a trap murder.

Josué Cardona 5:40
I’ll disagree.

Lara Taylor 5:41
That’s villainy.

Josué Cardona 5:43
I’ll disagree and debate you more as we as we go on. Link, your your thoughts on this. On my interpretation of events,

Link Keller 5:54
I understand what you’re saying in that even the characters like Ikaris who are serving as antagonists, to our protagonists forward momentum through the story. Even even with the antagonism, he’s still understandable as to why he takes the actions that he takes. It’s, it’s, I think, a good reflection that we see Ikaris, in an effort to uphold the purpose that He has come to understand, he is willing to sacrifice Ajax as a way to maintain his purpose. And then reflecting that later, where Sersi and the rest of the Eternals choose to sacrifice their purpose in order to save the planet. And so there’s like a nice mirroring there, where somebody is still getting killed, somebody is getting sacrificed in order to for this thing to happen. But the difference is your personal mentor, someone you have a many 1000s of years relationship with versus an an unknowable being that is coming into creation, you do not have a relationship with that person. But yeah, I get what you’re saying. I do think that Ikaris is pretty villainous. Just given the lying aspects, like Lara said, is is

Lara Taylor 7:27
the deceit,

Link Keller 7:29
the withholding the information? Like he had the opportunity, he had the information and he had the opportunity to decide for himself that for him, it was more important that he maintained the purpose he believes that he had, but he didn’t give the rest of his team that opportunity. And I think that choice pushes it over into villainy. But again, understandable it’s understandable. Like how fucking hard would it be to be like, Look, you guys so big news, um, we’re here basically is like factory farmers. And everybody that we’ve worked so hard to like save and protect and help nurture and grow is about to get killed, eaten. But like, I’ve already decided that that’s worth it. And so, like, I don’t care what you guys think is kinda shitty. But yeah.

Josué Cardona 8:25
Do you think that Ikaris struggled with that at all?

Link Keller 8:30
I’m gonna say he struggled with it more, once The woman he was he’s in love with was like, Hey, bro, not cool.

Lara Taylor 8:40
he was pretty cold when it was Ajak.

Link Keller 8:43
Yeah,

Lara Taylor 8:43
for a bit.

Link Keller 8:44
Yeah, I think I think that honestly adds some depth to his character that in the moment with him and Ajax, he was certain and he was sure that he was making the right choice for him. And then when faced with the rest of his team, and they’re pretty unanimous, like rejection of his choice, and him having to be like, Oh, I’m less sure it was a good choice now. Which then ending with a solar suicide? WHAT

Lara Taylor 9:12
Oh, seen the memes like men will literally fly into t...