Haystacks & Hell

Support the Show • This re-upload of Abby and Ami's original show SDAP dives into the complex and often contradictory relationship between music and the Seventh-day Adventist faith. Abby, Ami, Alex, and friends talk about their experiences with church music, worldly music, hypocrisy, destroying CDs, and just plain weirdness.

00:00 Story Previews 
00:27 Haystacks and Hell Intro 
00:44 Episode Intro 
01:33 Abby, Ami, and Alex on Music 
07:17 Adventist Attitudes on Music 
15:15 "Christian Rock" 
19:56 Church vs. Academy 
28:06 Destroying CDs 
30:16 Music Taste and Hypocrisy 
46:43 Dorms and Music Contraband 
53:19 Guest Stories 
58:50 Outro

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook • r/exAdventist 
— 
Credits: Abby and Ami, creators of the Seventh-day Atheist Podcast (https://hell.bio/sdap) • Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (https://incompetech.com/) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Did you ever get scolded for the music you played in church? We're diving into traditional Seventh-day Adventist attitudes toward music and talking about my own personal experience with music while growing up in the church. We'll also cover historical Protestant views on organs, early Adventist resistance to musical instruments, and the silly debate around Christian Contemporary Music.
-Santiago

Sources:
SDAs didn't use instruments for first 3 decades
First documented use of an organ in 1877
E.J. Waggoner "Solo singing has no rightful place..."
Ira Sankey hymns called the "devil's tunes"
Alma Blackmon quote re: White elitist professors
Who is Heinrich Schenker and why should you care?
Music Theory and the White Racial Frame
Music Theory and White Supremacy
Jacob Aranza Interview
Rock Is Dead, Thank God
IFPI 2023 Global Music Report
Spotify Top Trends of 2023
Who killed the CCM industry?

SDA propaganda given to me:
10 SHOCKING "FACTS" (BS) About CCM
Inside Rock Music by Vance Ferrell
Ted Wilson Facebook Post
Seventh-day Adventist Philosophy of Music

Recommended reading:
The Devil’s Music - How Christians Inspired, Condemned, and Embraced Rock ’n’ Roll

00:00 Intro
00:16 My Background with Music
06:28 Local Cultures Define Worship Styles
07:47 Protestants Hated the Organ?
10:21 Early Adventists Didn't Use Instruments
15:18 Racist Attitudes
17:58 Music Theory in the US
19:31 Rock and CCM
21:17 Anti-CCM SDA YouTuber
24:50 Inside Rock Music
28:02 Jacob Aranza, Satanic Panic Provocateur
34:18 Recap and Outro

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook • r/exAdventist 
—
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Santiago discusses the current political climate, especially the continued rise of Christian Nationalism in the United States, while reflecting on his personal journey from right-wing authoritarian beliefs to greater empathy and understanding. Listeners are encouraged to stay informed, participate in local elections, maintain hope for justice and positive change.
 

Resources / Topics Mentioned:

Reddit Post - "My dad woke my fears" 
Blog Post - Trump in office Ten Days: the Seventh-day Adventist Church wrote "Keep your mouth shut" 
Book - Armageddon by Bart Ehrman 
Video - Data Over Dogma Interview with Bart Ehrman 
Video - Skeptic.com Interview with Bart Ehrman 
Podcast - Sunday School Dropouts 
PDF - Ben Carson's Project 2025 Contribution 
Video - Don't Believe Him - Ezra Klein

Independent Media Suggestions:

DemocracyNow.org / YouTube 
Colonial Outcasts Podcast 
Drop Site News 
Breaking Points 
Legal Eagle - WTF is DOGE? 
Last Week Tonight 
Adam Conover 
More Perfect Union

00:00 Intro and Season 3 Kickoff
01:07 Political Climate and Deconstruction
03:48 Personal Journey and Reflections
06:11 Anxiety and End Times
11:14 Christian Nationalism
26:38 Encouragement and Resources
 

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Dee. We discussed his questioning of Adventism and Christianity in general, Satanic Panic, his evolving perspectives on religion, and having empathy for believers. We also talked about Dee's move to Sweden, his childhood connection to Dr. Ben Carson, and how the Ben Carson on TV is not the same man Dee once knew.

Resources / Topics Mentioned: 
Song - I'm Afraid I'll Go to Heaven by Moon Walker 
Book - Inside Rock Music (SDA anti-rock propaganda) 
Artist - Erykah Badu 
Video - Erykah Badu NPR Tiny Desk Concert 
Article - Dr. Ben Carson 
Video - Carson 1997 National Prayer Breakfast Speech @ 34:53 
Video - Carson 2013 National Prayer Breakfast Speech @ 34:10

00:00 Intro 
01:05 Part 2 of Dee's Story 
02:34 The Historical Jesus 
04:42 Personal Tragedy and Realizations 
07:34 Why Do People Leave? 
13:47 Empathy for Believers 
21:41 Segregated Conferences 
26:17 Sweden, Racism, and CRT 
32:58 Music and Satanic Panic 
44:00 Dr. Ben Carson 
49:39 Moving to Sweden 
54:02 Ethics and Adventism 
1:05:37 Closing Thoughts
 

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Part 1 of Santiago's interview with Dee, a fourth-generation Seventh-day Adventist, about his SDA background, early baptism, education, and what led him out of the church. In our wide-ranging conversation, we discussed racial issues in Adventist schools, the Civil Rights Movement, and more.

Resources / Topics Mentioned: 

Video - We Are the World 
Topic - Public Enemy 
Film - Malcolm X (1992) 
Topic - Assassination of MLK Jr. 
Topic - Poor People's Campaign 
Topic - The 15 Year Battle for MLK Jr Day 
Video - MLK: "A riot is the language of the unheard" 
Topic - White Americans Celebrated MLK's Death 
Topic - Ronald Reagan's wartime lies
 

00:00 Intro
00:17 Meet Dee: 4th Gen Adventist
02:49 Early Memories & Fearing Ellen White
04:01 Questioning Church Teachings
09:02 A Life-Changing Tragedy
11:04 Living with Fear & Moving to Huntsville
19:01 Baptism and Religious Pressure
22:26 Purity Culture & Mixed Messages
28:51 Weird "Health Message" Fads
31:29 Racial Issues in Adventist Schools
38:11 Civil Rights, Division, MLK
43:30 Deconstructing Beliefs
47:02 How Othering Manipulates Us
53:07 The New Generation
55:29 Trickle Down Greedonomics
1:00:42 Dee's Adventist Education
1:07:16 Goodbye Oakwood, Hello Adulthood
1:11:26 Outro

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
—
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Rosei Quartz, a former Seventh-day Adventist pastor's kid, content creator, and Twitch streamer. In this episode, we cover more of Rosei's deconstruction, finding contentment and a new outlook on life, complementarianism, consent, mental health, becoming a content creator, and more.

Resources / Topics Mentioned: 
Links - Rosei Quartz's Links 
Podcast - Rosei Quartz's Podcast 
Topic - Complementarianism 
Topic - Attachment Styles 
Topic - Bill Gothard's "Umbrella of Protection" 
Reddit - ex-SDA comments on Gothard's Umbrella 
Topic - The FRIES Model of Consent 
Book - #ChurchToo: How Purity Culture Upholds Abuse and How to Find Healing 
Topic - Youth Wilderness / Troubled Teen Industry 
Topic - SWERF Definition 
Topic - BITE Model of Authoritarian Control 
Topic - Adventist GC "Human Sexuality Task Force" 
Podcast - S1B2 - Human Sexuality Task Force 
Topic - Weaponized Incompetence 
Podcast - The Dream (Examining MLMs)

00:00 Intro
00:17 Rosei's Deconstruction
05:16 Contentment and New Worldview
13:47 Complementarianism Hurts Everyone
20:36 Purity Culture & Consent
22:10 Journey into Online SW
28:10 Work is Work
32:27 Online SW vs. Traditional Work
36:33 SWERFs vs. Autonomy
45:04 Adventist Leadership
52:52 Advice for Leaving the Church
55:20 Where to Find Rosei 
57:22 Outro

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Santiago interviews Rosei Quartz, a former Seventh-day Adventist pastor's kid, content creator, and Twitch streamer. Rosei shares her Adventist upbringing, the pressures of parasocial relationships, and the high expectations placed upon her as a pastor’s kid. We cover her journey out of Adventism and how studying psychology played a big role.

Resources / Topics Mentioned: 
Links - Rosei Quartz's Links 
Podcast - Rosei Quartz's Podcast
Podcast - Armchair Expert - Cults (Rosei starts at 50:08)
Topic - Complementarianism
Book - #ChurchToo: How Purity Culture Upholds Abuse and How to Find Healing
Topic - LARPing
Topic - Startle Response
Topic - Cry Nights
Topic - Hypervigilance & Hyperawareness
Topic - Terror Management Theory
Topic - Thought-terminating cliché
Podcast - H&H S1:E4 - When Did You Learn About...
Playlist - Debunking Young Earth Creationism

00:00 Intro
00:13 Meet Rosei Quartz
01:17 SDA Family History & Early Memories
04:31 Sabbath Mornings
07:33 Pastor's Kid Pressures
17:48 Spiritual Manipulation & Content Creation
26:49 Health Message & Ellen White
30:28 "Spiritual Warfare" & Psychology
38:28 Terror Management Theory
41:55 Why Rosei Left Adventism
43:35 Harmful Beliefs & Pseudoscience
55:12 Crossing Ethical Boundaries
57:46 Ethics & Behavior Modification
1:00:37 High Demand Religion & Mental Health
1:05:11 Personal Growth Outside the Church
1:14:14 Outro

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Santiago shares some personal news, updates on the future of the show, and listener stories.

Resources / Topics Mentioned:

Slate: Why Do We Give Our Pets Death With Dignity but Not Ourselves? 
S1:E2 - Do You Believe in an Afterlife?
More Listener Stories 
Podcast Resources 
Book Resources

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Show • Part 2 of Santiago's interview with Andres Pichinte (They/Them), a Gen Z ex-Adventist who went from fundamentalist Adventism and going door to door for two summers with Youth Rush, to exploring esotericism and now Orthodox Christianity. We discussed the sales tactics used by Youth Rush, the books they sold and beliefs they encountered, misadventures in door-to-door evangelism, and more.
 

Resources / Topics Mentioned:

Andres' Website & Bio 
Youth Rush Article - Spectrum Magazine

00:00 - Haystacks & Hell Intro
00:34 - Youth Rush Canvassing Sales Tactics
06:49 - Books and Beliefs
20:58 - Misadventures in Door-to-Door Evangelism
25:39 - From Fast Food to Film School
32:04 - Embracing Diversity and Finding Acceptance
37:28 - Exploring Orthodoxy
46:06 - Closing Thoughts
48:12 - Haystacks & Hell Outro

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
—
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook
—
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License

Support the Dunk Family • Support the Show 
— 
Santiago interviews Andres Pichinte (They/Them), a Gen Z ex-Adventist who went from fundamentalist Adventism and going door to door for Youth Rush (for two summers), to exploring esotericism and now Orthodox Christianity. We talk about growing up Adventist, being surrounded by conspiracy theories, and moments that made them question their Adventist faith.

Resources / Topics Mentioned: 
Andres' Website & Bio 
The Hairbrush Song - Silly Songs with Larry 
His Cheeseburger - Love Songs with Mr. Lunt 
Youth Rush Article - Spectrum Magazine

Full Transcripts, resources and more: hell.bio/notes 
— 
Have a story to share? Write to us, send a DM or voice message on Instagram, or leave a voicemail at (301) 750-8648‬. We take your privacy seriously: Privacy Policy 
— 
Twitter • TikTok • Instagram • YouTube • Facebook 
— 
Credits: Music: Hall of the Mountain King Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) • Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License