In this episode, Katie and Gretchen talk about how law and gospel distinctions affect relationships we have at church and in ministry. It is often the first place where we substitute practical theology for things that appear more practical like guilt and manipulation in order to make a ministry "work."

Church relationships can be full of good intentions, but when we miss the practical (and patient) nature of the Holy Spirit working in the hearts of people, it starts to become a ministry based on our work, instead of a ministry based on Christ's work.