Heart & Soul

What Is A Wellness Journal 

[Cold Open]

Bernadette: I always try to end one of my entries with love. Why do I care about them so much and what has made me so angry? And then why do I still love this person so much? 

McGill: With every writing session let me write something that actually matters to me. Let me write something that I will actually benefit from.

Brother Donald: Keeping a record of what we go through in our daily life and trying to, not only assess, but work to improve. Well, all the more when it comes to our service to God and utilizing his teachings wisely.

[Heart and Soul Introduction] 

Gretchen: You’re listening to Heart and Soul, a podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ). I’m one of your hosts, Gretchen Asuncion. And it’s here where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best Christian version of themselves. This is Heart and Soul.

Gretchen: Hey, everyone! It’s Gretchen. With me today are our hosts, Bernadette. Hey, Bernadette. 

Bernadette: Hi Gretchen! How are you? 

Gretchen: I am good. Staying warm or trying to at least. How are you?

Bernadette: I’m alright.

Gretchen: Also we have McGill. Hi, McGill. How are you today?

McGill: I am pretty good. I feel good. I hope you feel good as well Gretchen. 

Gretchen: I do. Thank you. Thank you.

McGill: Awesome. Awesome.

Gretchen: And of course, we have a minister of the Gospel. Brother Donald Pinnock. Hello, Brother Donald, thank you so much for joining us. 

Brother Donald: Hi, Gretchen, Bernadette and McGill. I’m very very happy to be with you right now.

Gretchen: Awesome. Now, before I start here, I know many of us take notes during worship service. So why do we take notes during worship service? Is it something that inspires us, especially with the verses? You know, how is it that we give importance as we take notes during the worship service?

McGill: Personally, what I think the the nice benefits of taking notes during worship service is that it’s a nice reminder, right? With notes, it’s a nice reminder about everything that really happened during the worship service. And then you could reflect on your day-to-day if it if there’s anything that you can learn from or to improve yourself as a person.

Bernadette: For myself, when I take notes for the worship service, I take the overall idea and the verses that I could remember, and I put it on paper, and then I compare it to my week. And then I try to look for what is God trying to tell me in the lesson.

Gretchen: Awesome. Well, I do take notes as well. So kind of helps me,  kind of conclude exactly what the worship service is. And they really do inspire me. So today we’re going to talk about wellness journals and their value in keeping track of and giving importance to the words of God we regularly receive. What is a wellness journal? And how do we start? And is it in line with what God wants for us? So with that, do you guys know what a wellness journal is? I guess, like how could you when you hear the term wellness journal? What is your definition of it?

McGill: Oh, well, this is the first time I’ve really heard that a wellness journal is actually a thing. But based on what it sounds like, it sounds like a diary or a journal that you probably just write down your feelings or stuff to keep track of how your day is going or just to keep track of like how are you doing in your life? And so you can look back on the days that you’ve written and just see how you’ve grown.

Bernadette: I really like McGill’s definition of a wellness journal! It’s pretty close to mine. I think for me, I kind of split it up to not just like the emotions, but also the cause and effect of what would happen in a singular day, and then, and I can also split it up to not just emotions, but a physical journal or a spiritual journal.

Gretchen: Okay. So we have similar definitions as far as what a wellness journal is. So, a regular journal is usually intended for writing out events and emotions, which I sometimes gravitate to. But then a wellness journal helps keep track of our well-being and goals along with emotions and events, which I feel like I have a mix of both. So when it comes to our wellness, the first thing I think of is the words of God. We attend worship service twice a week, and while life can get pretty busy for us, I think our worship service notes are part of our wellness journals. You know, when it comes to maintaining our wellness, journals do an amazing job at tracking our growth. So why would anyone want to create a wellness journal? 

“Ultimately, a wellness journal reduces anxiety and the panicky feeling associated with keeping all those crazy to-do lists in your head.  You get it all organized on paper and create solid, doable wellness goals”, guided by God’s word’s we received.

[Source: https://sophieuliano.com/wellness-bullet-journal/]

Gretchen: So from my understanding of wellness Journal is meant to help you look at all areas of your life. So movement, sleep, relationships and it helps you reflect on where you are and where you want to be. But it’s understandable if the Wellness Journal looks different for everyone! It’s supposed to cater to your goals. So I want to emphasize on how these journals are ways to help us reduce anxiety and overwhelming emotions and worship service has given us that outlet. I know that remembering these lessons are vital for me to get through life. So, how do you start your wellness journal? Do you guys have any techniques that you use for journaling? I know, Bernadette, you mentioned that you do have journals.

Bernadette: Yes! So what I do after the worship service, once I get home, I write what I remember from the lesson, and then at the bottom kind of compare what I’ve been going through throughout the week and kind of figure out what exactly God is trying to show me through the lesson, comparing it with my own life.

Gretchen: Okay, nice. So, Brother Donald, what does the Bible say about having a wellness journal?

Brother Donald: Well, I’m glad you asked that, Sister Gretchen, because when it comes to a wellness journal per say, there’s nothing wrong with it. It can definitely help when it comes to all aspects of our life to make sure that we are doing well. I’m going to relate the phrase wellness and wellness journal when it comes to actually self-reflection, because when it comes to us, members of the Church Of Christ, that self-reflection and also that introspective look of our, most especially, relationship with the Lord our God, and not just our personal goals or ambitions in life is very, very important. Because we know, as members of the Church, our ultimate wellness level is to be worthy of attaining salvation. This is why we are admonished to do the following as we can read in Romans chapter 12, verse 2:

Don’t become so well-adjusted to your culture that you fit into it without even thinking. Instead, fix your attention on God. You’ll be changed from the inside out. Readily recognize what he wants from you, and quickly respond to it. Unlike the culture around you, always dragging you down to its level of immaturity, God brings the best out of you, develops well-formed maturity in you.

[Romans 12:2 The Message] 

Brother Donald: So keeping track of how we are doing in the many aspects of our life can of course be very, very beneficial. Keeping track on how we are doing when it comes to our relationship with God is of far greater importance since the success that we yearn for will ultimately come from Him and not just ourselves.

Gretchen: I really like that. How you started from wellness into that self-reflection. So our well-being, right, we have to take care of ourselves.

Brother Donald: That’s right.

Gretchen: So of course we have to reflect on how we are.

Brother Donald: How we’re doing. Exactly.

Gretchen: Exactly. And then how our Almighty God does guide us in our well-being. So hopefully we can get you in starting a wellness journal. Maybe this is that outlet, that new thing where it’s like it it opens up your mind, if you will.

McGill: Yeah, for sure! God, God puts things in the way of me and to show me something and I think this is what He wants me to try is maybe try a wellness journal. 

Gretchen: This is true. So we’re going to help you and those who are listening on how to start a wellness journal. 

Step 1: Find a Journal

Gretchen: Yes, a journal. That’s one way to start, right?

McGill: Find a journal. Yeah, for sure. Pen and paper. You’ve got to start somewhere.

Gretchen: Exactly! So, when you find a journal—for me, I gravitate towards something that either fits my style or even if it has, like, the pages that are that have little quotes.

McGill: It’s got to look cute. It’s definitely got to look cute.

Gretchen: Cute, but minimalist would be my style.

Bernadette: I’m all about the pastel colors and for my adventure books all about green.

Gretchen: I like it! 

McGill: Nice. 

Gretchen: They’re very positive and bright colors and… mellow. Kind of keeping a chill, so that if you need to, you know, calm yourself, it’s like, okay, let me… let me open up my journal here. So, when you do start and find that journal, that’s when you’ll conduct your self-reflection. So being honest with yourself and determining where you are and where you want to be in life. So, tomorrow in a week, month, even a year or two from now, maybe that three-year plan is going to be in process. So, Bernadette, what kind of wellness journal do you have?

Bernadette: I have actually a lot! It’s kind of it’s kind of silly. So, I mean, I do I did talk about the spiritual journal that I have. I do have a physical journal where I include my workouts and how those make me feel afterwards. But my favorite journal that I have and I haven’t really gotten to fill it up this year is my adventure journal where I go on hikes and different trips and I kind of record my experience and what I would do the next time I go there. So for example, I went on a camp earlier this year, and it was the first time I didn’t go “glamping,” where there’s an actual shower, bathrooms and then that’s where I took a lot more notes because I really needed to learn how to do that.

Gretchen: That’s awesome. You have it categorized and I think that’s great to be able to really do a deep reflection on the experiences that you have. So, McGill, when, notice that I said when, not if you start a journal, but when you start a wellness journal, how would you like it to be like if you when you start one, how would you start it? What are you going to put into it? It can be gratitude, reflective.

McGill: Right. So, this is what I was thinking. So, you know, we’re human. A lot of us, we have problems in our lives right. And so for me, as of right now, I keep track of all these problems that I have and I’m trying to be more self-aware of it. So maybe looking back on these journals, I can remember these different problems that I have and be more self aware, so that, you know, I’m properly taking care of myself as I go from my day-to-day. I always want to try to make the best version of myself every day, so keeping track of this, I, I think would be a really good thing for me.

Gretchen: That’s a great start and I cannot wait for you to tell us more once you do start again. Okay? [Laughs] 

McGill: For sure. I’ve got you, Gretchen! 

Gretchen: But with that, I know you said that you have a bad memory and then now when you start your journal that you’ll try to keep track of it. Well, that’s step two in having a wellness journal, right, to make it a routine.

Step 2: Make it a routine.

Gretchen: I mean, our season for this, our topic or theme for this season, if you will, is building those good habits. So, we make routines to be able to take care of ourselves to ensure that our well-being is cared for. So, have you seen any journals online or even on social media that inspire you to create and kind of get into that creativity? Because honestly, I dive into that. I gravitate towards it. I love it when everyone puts like different scrap pieces of paper and stamps. And it’s just it’s like art right after. But then you look at it and it’s like, Oh, maybe this is their mood.

Bernadette: Yes! There’s a lot of different artists, where, instead of having like the typical wellness journal with words, they do their journaling through their own art. It’s amazing to know that, you know, an artist put all of his thoughts in the day in this one picture that he made and me, myself, I want to try that in this upcoming year for 2023.

McGill: I do really like aesthetically pleasing items. And I mean, although I don’t write too much, I love pens. I actually buy pens. I mean, I know the ones listening here today can’t see. But I do have really nice pens. I love rose gold and gold. Like I have everything rose gold, like I mean, I’m showing to the hosts right now.

Gretchen: Oh, he’s particular!

McGill: Yeah, I really like nice aesthetic things. And so, that… 

Bernadette: You just need a rose gold journal now!

McGill: Rose gold journal! Wouldn’t that be amazing? Just, you know, walking around with my rose gold journal. But these things actually, it does inspire me to use them, right? Because if I have, you know, really nice things that make me happy, like this pen, like maybe the upcoming journal that I’ll purchase, I’ll be inspired to use it. And I think that will help with my consistency, like the step to make it a routine.

Gretchen: That’s awesome. I like that we’re all inspired by the things that make us happy. That’s like that’s a good thing. When it comes to your wellness journal, we have to strive for that positivity. Now I know that INC Media also came out with the Creative Christian Planner, so we can download that.

McGill: Ugh, I want that! 

Bernadette: I am fighting for one of those! 

McGill: They’re so cool. 

Gretchen: That will help keep us all on track, especially with it being a planner and for the upcoming new year. Now lastly, step three. So, we find the journal, we found how to make it a routine and how to make it, I guess, in accordance to our lifestyle, right? But for step number three, we have to determine what to write about.

Step 3: Determine what to write about.

Gretchen: So, I didn’t know where to start. I just kind of started writing. But then it came to the point that it didn’t really have substance. So when I read it back, I was like, “Wow, this is just either word vomit or just a brain dump of all my thoughts.”  And it was kind of hard to really reflect on it. So, I started looking up writing prompts, and that can help where it’s like, okay, “What am I feeling right now? Where am I at? Why am I feeling this way? How can we improve it? Or what do we need to change?” So Bernadette, do you use any journal templates with the different categories that you had? I know you mentioned about like the experiences right after glamping or not glamping, but camping.

Bernadette: Yeah! I know I used to use templates myself because when I was a lot younger, I started my format for journaling more as a diary style, which is exactly like just throwing all of these emotions on paper. And then after a while, like, same thing with you, Gretchen. I realized I need something to guide me along the way. And then that’s when I started buying journals that actually had prompts in there. And then I would follow that prompt. And then the following year I would make my own prompts, personally. And then after that, I kind of went back to just dumping everything on paper. But when I do throw everything on paper now, I’m a little bit more aware of what exactly I’m laying on there, instead of how I used to just mindlessly, “Oh, today it was totally terrible!” 

[Laughs] 

Gretchen: McGill, I think you already laid it out when you said that. Yeah. When you start on this journal. Right. So it’s like if you were mad or any emotion or just something that seemed negative in how to not act in that way or how you could have changed the situation, should it come again. 

McGill: Yeah, for sure. And I think I definitely, I think can apply to everyone, like how to lay it out, you know, using I know, Bernadette, as she mentioned, that she uses like templates or she organizes in a way that suits her needs, right? And I think everyone like for sure can do that if they don’t know really where to go, just do whatever feels good. Just try it. Write whatever. And I think that’s what I’m going to do. You know, I ran it through my head. What do I personally like? This is how I like to do it. This is how I’m going to do it. And so, you know, for example, for me, when I’m thinking about, okay, I’m going to start this journal, I don’t like big paragraphs, you know, looking at the big paragraphs, I’m not the fastest reader. So glancing at that, it’s a little bit intimidating to me. So maybe how I would like to do it is maybe bullet points. I like bullet points. They’re nice and short. I could read it fast as it is and it gives me a reminder. It accomplishes all of my goals and it’s perfect for me. Maybe it’s not best for other people. Maybe other people like long paragraphs and they should write long paragraphs. So yeah, I think when we kind of do these wellness journals just have it suited for how you want to do it. There’s no right way to do your own journal, right?

Gretchen: Yes, I really like that with the example of Bernadette’s different journals that she has, and then just hearing how you plan to do your wellness journal, McGill that’s, that’s great to have. So we already have an amazing foundation when it comes to looking for peace and resolving it. And you know, it is through our worship service and with our wellness journals, they are a great tool we can use to monitor how we follow God’s guidance in having a stable and healthy life. And when it comes to making life-changing decisions, these journals, notes we take in the worship service, or our own unique wellness journal can help us make decisions and take the right steps in life. Now, Brother Donald, with our wellness journals and when we take the time to take notes in the worship service, how can we benefit or how can we be guided by God’s words to be able to focus towards our goals and, you know, our well-being with our journals?

Brother Donald: Sister Gretchen, that was a really, really good question. First of all, I want to comment on the benefits of having that wellness journal. And I believe what you’re talking about is actually physically writing down rather than typing in. Because writing is more personal. Do you get it? Because now you’re really it’s a part of you that’s actually writing down on a piece of paper. It’s more intimate, it’s more you. And I believe that’s going to be more beneficial in actually writing it on a, you know, a cold keyboard and it’s stored there on your computer. Meanwhile, you have a journal that you can pick up at any time. And when it comes to those journals, again, they’re going to help us when it comes to our self-reflection and for us to improve. And that’s really in-tune or in consonance with what the Bible teaches. Proverbs 4:26 and verses 14 to 15 also, and this is stated:

And let all your ways be established.

Do not enter the path of the wicked,

And do not walk in the way of evil.

Avoid it, do not travel on it;

Turn away from it and pass on. 

[Proverbs 4:26, 14-15 New King James Version] 

Brother Donald: So, as the Bible teaches, one should ponder the path of their feet and let all their ways be established. So, careful thought should be given when it comes to the direction of one’s life. That’s why, again, the wellness journal can be beneficial in every aspect of our life. And as an added reminder, the Bible states that we should not enter the path of the wicked. For sure, a servant of God’s plans for success, those plans will be derailed if they follow the ways of evil people. One should remain living in accordance with God’s commandments and through their obedience the plans that they are focused on will definitely be successful because they will have God’s blessing attached to that hope or aspiration.

Gretchen: I like that. I’m going to take that to heart. And maybe this might be my theme for my new journal. So ponder the path of your feet and let all your ways be established.

Brother Donald: Yes. Exactly. 

Gretchen: So, with that careful thought, right, it’ll help guide us being able to reflect on what’s being taught in the worship service and being able to guide us through this life, especially when we are, you know, either bombarded with the troubles or trials or even sometimes, you know, society itself may influence or try to tempt us in other ways.

Brother Donald: Exactly. Yes. So, that wellness journal, especially if we’re going to include those biblical reminders, you know, that’s really going to help us when it comes to the path that we take in life. You know, we are always going to be making sure that what we are planning to do is in accordance with the will of God and all the more, we’re going to be blessed with success.

Gretchen: I love that! I’m getting really excited for the new year and having a brand new wellness journal just because of this episode! 

[Laughs]

Gretchen: Now, with that. So, [in order for] us to be focused, especially if we are starting to journal. So McGill, take note even if it is just a mental note, okay?

McGill: Got it. Don’t worry. All ears, all ears. 

Gretchen: So, I read an article that suggested the following steps to get you started with journaling. And it’s actually pretty easy to remember the acronym is WRITE:

W – What topic

R – Review and reflect

I – Investigate

T – Time yourself

E – Exit smart

[Source: https://whateveryourdose.com/what-is-a-wellness-journal-a-mindfulness-practice-to-make-life-simple/ ]

Gretchen: So “W” what topic? So what exactly are you writing again? For me, I tend to just bring it up and it’s like, okay, let’s focus. “R” review, do or reflect. And that is what we have been talking [about] from the beginning, is that self-reflection. Now “I” is investigate. I think this is, I don’t know, help me out you guys. How, how would you investigate? Like if you have this topic now you’re reflecting, how would you investigate?

McGill: I think looking at your past scenarios that maybe happened today. Investigate by looking at your past day and seeing if there’s anything that relates to the topic that you were going to write about. I think that’s a nice way to investigate. 

Bernadette: Even checking in with friends before you write does help. You don’t have to give them the full essence of what’s going on in your mind, but you can ask them a few questions like, “Hey, did I? was a little too harsh when I spoke earlier today?” And then they’ll confirm or deny. 

McGill: Yeah, that’s a great idea. It’s always nice to have a third party perspective from which because you definitely can have blind spots, right? I definitely have lots of blind spots that I’m not very aware about, but, you know, my friends would tell me like, “Oh McGill, you know, this thing happened. I was like, Oh, wow, I didn’t even notice that about myself. Thank you for letting me know.”

Gretchen: Yes. It’s good to have our friends or even loved ones to just kind of keep us on track too, while we’re keeping us on track. They’re keeping us in check.

McGill: Yeah! I scratch your back, you scratch my back. There we go!  

Bernadette: It’s a community effort! 

Gretchen: All right, so “T” time yourself. For me, I try to set aside at least I don’t know, maybe 10 minutes? Because it’s just like, okay, if I feel like I have to write, then I’ll just write it down. But then I have to stop because, again, it’s like all just brain dumps. So it’s like, okay, let’s really reassess exactly why we’re writing. Maybe sometimes it is just too really brain dump. Or maybe it is just words, maybe it is just like, okay, topic, what’s going on? How am I feeling? I’m going to write for like 10 minutes and then take a break. So I don’t know. That’s kind of my perspective on timing myself when journaling. I don’t know. What are your guys’ thoughts? 

Bernadette: I take, I could take as little as 2 minutes or I think the most I’ve ever spent on a journal was 3 hours. And I didn’t mean to! I didn’t mean to. I just put my pen on the paper and then suddenly it was 2 a.m.

McGill: Wow. That was a very adventurous night, I imagine. 

Bernadette: A lot of words that will never be spoken from my mouth.

McGill: When I think about timing myself, maybe not like the duration of how long I’m journaling for, I when I think about timing myself, maybe it’s like a consistent routine. Maybe at a certain time, at a certain point of your day, maybe right before you go to bed, you time yourself. Okay. Or maybe at 10 p.m. every single day, that’s when I’m going to start writing my journal. And then from there, because I feel like it doesn’t have to be like a set amount of time. Maybe you had a long day and there’s a lot to write about or maybe had a short day and you don’t have too much to write about. So I think what really matters, for me at least, is just the consistency, right? You know, same thing with like prayers is to, you know, have that consistent flow of praying and so that God can really see that you’re sacrificing and could see that what what you ask in the prayer is something that you really want. So if I personally really want to improve myself with this wellness journal, I’d definitely time yourself being consistent every single day with it.

Gretchen: Okay, That’s that’s a good way to look at it. I like that. Now for the last one “E” exit smart. So I take this as like, okay we’ve reflected on what it is that we need to journal about. So, to exit smart. So, I take it as,“Okay, this is what I’m going to do now.” I left it there, like how we cast our cares to God, right? We leave it there. Pray and be like, “I wrote all of this down. Guide me on what my next steps would be.” 

Bernadette: At least for how I finish my journaling, I always try to end one of my entries with love. So, if I’m upset that day over something I try to give myself a compliment. Or if I’m complaining about a relationship with like either my family members or anybody, I try to remember at the, at least the last sentence, “Why do I care about them so much and what has made me so angry? And then why do I still love this person so much?” And because I tend to write before bed, I actually have my devotional prayer before I write. So that’s kind of how I exit smart. I pray at the beginning. And then I end my writing with love.

Gretchen: I love that. So, Bernadette signs it or begins her journaling by praying, ends it with signing off with love. How would you do it? So when you reflect on what you’ve written, would you know any action steps?

McGill: When I hear exit smart what I think that that’s what the goal of that is is you know you’re writing this one in this journal for a reason and so when you’re done a session of writing leave with something, leave gaining something. So you’re not going to just write it and not gain anything after it, right? You’re writing for a reason. And so when you exit it, you leave with something, you exit smart.

Brother Donald Pinnock: Like a positive conclusion?

McGill: Yeah, like a positive conclusion. Just like that, Brother Donald. So, you know, with every writing session to exit smart, let me write something that actually matters to me. Let me write something that I will actually benefit from so I can exit smart. I’m not going to just waste my time or just get it over with. Let me just write it and not like actually learn something and then every time after every session to exit smart, you’re growing every single time, after every session. So I think that would be really nice.

Gretchen: All right. I like it. I like it. So with that, it seems that we have our goal is at the end of our journal entry, right? That we become self-aware of the situation or what it is that we have written. And sometimes at then, it’s like, okay, so what is my next step? What are, what is some guidance on how to be able to reach this goal or how to improve ourselves? Brother Donald, with the greatest resource in our life, the Bible, how can we continue to use that as a resource to inspire us to be able to get our guidance, to be able to accomplish our goals, or the things that we would like to improve on, such as our state of well-being and keeping track of our eternal goal of reaching our salvation? 

Brother Donald Pinnock: What I’d just like to say, first of all, there’s definitely nothing wrong with chronicling or journaling our projects or aspirations in life and also what we do for our faith, of course, is much more important. Writing down our successes, even sometimes our shortfalls or mistakes, they can help us to gauge our efforts to reach our goals. And being God’s people, we can journal or chronicle our faith in the manner that the Bible prescribes us. We can read here in Proverbs 3:3 to 4: 

Let loyalty and truthfulness never leave you; tie them around your neck, write them on the tablet of your heart, that you may find favor and a good name in the eyes of God and man. 

[Proverbs 3:3-4 Christian Community Bible] 

Brother Donald Pinnock: God’s people should chronicle or write God’s teachings on the tablets of their heart, meaning to say we should always keep in mind his laws, his statutes, and be guided by them in our everyday living and planning for our future. By doing so, the Bible teaches that we will find favor and the good name in the eyes of God and man. Such an individual will surely be successful. So, that’s why, when it comes to this topic, subject matter, I should say, about journaling, keeping a record of what we go through in our daily life and trying to, not only assess, but work to improve well, all the more when it comes to our service to God and utilizing his teachings wisely, you know, we can chronicle those again when it comes to our heart, as well as placing them on paper to make sure that we always have God by our side. And He’s the one who’s going to grant the success, He’s going to give unto us that satisfaction and that happiness in the midst of a very troubled and difficult world that we are living in.

Gretchen: That’s the greatest reassurance to have, is to know that we have our Almighty God on our side. And it’s an amazing reminder that we can write God’s teachings down during worship services and we can remember what God is teaching us and help us live out our best Christian life. Thank you for the wonderful advice, Brother Donald, and everyone joining us here today. So with that, I will start by listing down everything that I need to create a wellness journal. McGill, I hope you took all our advice, especially from Brother Donald.

McGill: Taking the mental notes with my ears! 

Bernadette: Definitely send us a photo of your journal, McGill!

McGill: Oh, it’s going to look so cute, Bernadette! 

Gretchen: The rose gold journal.

McGill: The rose gold pretty journal with my rose gold pen. It’s going to look super pretty and it’s going to look even prettier inside. Ok, maybe not! Because it’s going to be filled with a bunch of my personal problems and, you know, but it’s going to look great on the outside! 

Gretchen: There you go. And if anything, it’s going to help you internally. And then there we are. We’re going to be guided by our self-reflection, but most importantly by God’s words. So, we hope to our listeners this discussion inspired you to either improve on your wellness journals or even start one like Brother McGill, a rose gold wellness journal, perhaps?

McGill: Yes. 

Gretchen: And of course, throughout the season we are building one healthy habit at a time. If you want to check out our sources, feel free to visit incmedia.org and it’ll be at the bottom of our podcast. Thank you again for listening to INC Heart and Soul, where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best Christian version of themselves. Thank you everyone for joining in. Bye! 

[Music]

Shannon: You had 11 hours of – maybe even more – of social media time! 

McGill: I think the main culprit of my screen time on the social media is being on call with my friends.

Gretchen: I’m doing… I’m going to post this right now. Like, I need to take this picture to post it now.

Shannon: Trying to create this life online cannot encompass the entirety of who we are, especially as Christians!

Gretchen: Well, I had to put an app limit with some apps where it has to lock me out! 

Brother Michael: But it can also distract us. We use our devices also for entertainment. But then again there are real life matters that we need to attend to.

[Show intro]

Shannon Santamaria: You’re listening to Heart and Soul, a podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ. I’m one of your hosts, Shannon Santamaria, and it’s here where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best Christian version of themselves. This is Heart and Soul.

[Music]

Shannon: Welcome to the INC Heart and Soul. And with me today is McGill. Hey, McGill! 

McGill Onate: Hey, Shannon. How are you? 

Shannon: I’m doing good. How are you?

McGill: I’m great. I’m great.

Shannon: And another host with me today is Gretchen. Hey, Gretch!

Gretchen Asunsion: Hey! Hello, hello!

Shannon: And today we are going to talk about being glued to our screens. Well, let’s get right to it! So, I’m super excited to talk about this episode today, because it is definitely a discussion that I have with you guys, and I know that it’s a discussion that everybody has! And before we get into talking about, you know, phone screens and being addicted to our phones, I want to introduce the hosts with a little icebreaker. You know, we’re here on um INC Heart and Soul. Does our podcast count as screen time?

McGill: Well, when I think about it, initially, yeah, I think it counts as screen time. I mean, I know this is just audio for the ones listening here today, but when we’re recording, we are using a screen, so yeah, I guess it does count as screen time since we are looking into a screen. But I don’t know. What do you think, Gretchen?

Gretchen: Um, yeah! I would have to agree that it would be screen time, but I wouldn’t take it as a negative type of screen time. We’re all enjoying each other’s time, and here we are going to talk about a great topic that I’m sure everyone can relate to. 

Shannon: Right. And you know, I also wanted to introduce a minister of the gospel, Brother Michael Guerrero. Hi, Brother Michael! 

Brother Michael Guerrero: Hi, everyone. How are you guys doing?

Shannon: We’re doing good. I actually wanted to ask you as well, is this podcast part of using your screen time? 

Brother Michael: I think for us, yes, because like what was mentioned by Brother McGill earlier, we are using our screens and maybe for the people listening, maybe they’re listening also on, you know, a mobile device or something. And what’s nice though, about this is that they don’t have to technically look at the screen, right? They just have to be logged in. So, I would agree with Sister Gretchen that, yes, this is a little bit of screen time, but in a good way! And we’ll get to that in a little while.

Shannon: Right. I know that, you know, this podcast is kind of in that gray area when it comes to screen time. Later, we’re going to be talking about screen time, and we didn’t have cell phones, you know, when the Bible was made, so it’s exciting to kind of hear what the Bible has to say all about that.

I know for one thing, I start panicking when I can’t find my phone, or if I’m rushing and I forget to charge it before it dies, or I forget it somewhere and I’m trying to find it before I leave. I do freak out when I do lose my phone. If that doesn’t constitute as being overly attached to an item, then I don’t know what it is. [Do] you guys ever feel that way?

Gretchen: Yeah. It’s almost like a rush. Like, oh! I had to do something, but then, not really. It’s just making excuses to get your phone charger to ‘mindlessly’ scroll or just check on apps that you haven’t checked out throughout the day. So, I yeah… yeah. I’ve had moments like that. [Laughs] 

McGill: Yeah. I’ve definitely also had moments like that, too. I mean, also, just very recently, one time I was at the gym and I left my phone at the gym. [I] did not know where my phone was. I was tracking it down with my iPad, using [the] find my iPhone app. So I thought someone stole it. I was like, oh my goodness! And I was going to lose my mind! I’m like, oh my, where’s my phone?! 

Shannon: [Laughs] McGill! McGill, I don’t think, I don’t think that is a definition or I mean, a sign of phone addiction. I think it’s you not even worrying about where your phone is. 

McGill: [Laughs] Yeah, maybe I was a little bit irresponsible in those scenarios, but I think those are times where I really, I really told myself maybe I should be a little bit more responsible with my items. But yeah.

Shannon: Do you think that you have some signs or do you think that you’re addicted to your phone? I know for a fact McGill isn’t. Obviously, he lost his phone three times. But for you, Gretch, I want to know. 

Gretchen: I… I have to be honest, there was a point in time where I was addicted. I mean, especially during the lockdown, where it’s like, hmm! Let me just grab my phone real quick where you just, again, mindlessly. But then, since then, I caught some signs where it’s like I kept scrolling, but I wasn’t consuming anything. It was just… it became a bad habit. So I was like, okay, we have to address the problem here.

Shannon: You know, that happens to me too. I think, especially when it comes to doing laundry. I procrastinate doing laundry. And so every time my clothes are done and they’re ready to be folded or hanged, I just end up leaving the pile of clean laundry on my bed and I’m just on my phone scrolling until the ad tells me that I’ve been on my phone for too long.

McGill: I get those a couple of times.

Shannon: I think it’s my way of like trying not to do the laundry. I don’t know? Laundry has never done anything to me, so I don’t know why I’m procrastinating on it. I know that, McGill, we were talking earlier about you being addicted to your phone, but I don’t know. I don’t know about that.

McGill: Well, when I think about it, it’s like, what is addiction really? It’s like, what I think addiction is, is you need it like your body craves it and you can’t go without it. There are some, like, nights where I’m just like, like I have downtime, I’m going to chill. Maybe I’m going to scroll a little bit, but then that’s scrolling, like I’m, I should be in bed at this time, but I need to just keep scrolling so I can go to bed. That’s what I’m thinking, because I usually, you know, scroll a little bit before I go to bed. But then it just keeps going and I’m like, I need to sleep, but I kind of want to just continue watching, you know?

Shannon: I asked you guys before this episode actually what your screen time was, and I know that we were all sharing each other’s screen time. You know, the analytics that your phone gives you, how much screen time? Most of my screen time is spent on social media. And you know, McGill, when you sent me yours, I freaked out! You had 11 hours of – maybe even more – of social media time! 

McGill: Yeaaah… 

Shannon: On your phone! Like in one week?! For me, I guess I don’t realize that I spend so much time on my phone as well! 

McGill: Yeah. I think the main culprit of my screen time on the social media is, is being on call with my friends. I love being on call with my friends. Sometimes it gets to the point where I love it so much, I’ll pass out on call, and my phone just stays idle for the entire night and…

Gretchen: Sounds like a lifeline at this point… [Laughs] 

McGill: So, maybe that’s the culprit of the 11 hours, but you know.

Shannon: And I know, Gretch, you just got a new phone, so it doesn’t really show you your true analytics, I guess, when it comes to being on your screen. But I think you’re doing a pretty good job managing it.

Gretchen: I’d say so. I had to put an app limit with some apps where it has to lock me out! And then there’s times where I’m like… it’s okay, 15 minutes more, let me just put in this code and still scroll… 

McGill: Girrrl! [Laughs] 

Shannon: You know, the thing that people say, the first step to solving the problem is knowing you have one or something like that?

Gretchen: Right. 

Shannon: Don’t quote me on it! I mean, it’s… and I know that it’s important to be mindful of our habits and behaviors, but I think, I think we might have a little problem here. 

McGill: Yeah, I agree. 

Shannon: So, I guess I wanted to ask Brother Michael, when it comes to, you know, using our phones or being distracted, what should we keep in mind?

Brother Michael:  Well for us as Church Of Christ members we have an ultimate goal that we should keep our focus on, and that’s salvation. And that’s why while we make our way through this world in this life, we pay attention to what the Bible teaches us here in Romans 13:12 which states:

But make sure that you don’t get so absorbed and exhausted in taking care of all your day-by-day obligations that you lose track of the time and doze off, oblivious to God.

[Romans 13:12 The Message] 

Brother Michael: So just like what the Bible made mention, we shouldnt waste our time on unnecessary pursuits. So, there’s nothing wrong with using our cell phones, our laptops, our tablets when we are doing something that is productive. But if we’re always spending our time just kind of scrolling through social media, and looking for other things that really are just taking up our time and are not helping us… for example at school or at work or even spending time with our family members, most importantly, participating in the Church events that take place on a regular basis. 

So again yes our cell phones, our gadgets, our devices, for example it’s basically a way for us to get unlimited information almost, right? But it can also distract us. We use our devices also for entertainment. But then again there are real life matters that we need to attend to, that we can’t disregard. Especially if we are just spending a whole bunch of time on our devices, just like what the Bible said don’t get so absorbed and exhausted in these day-by-day obligations that you lose track, oblivious to God. We shouldn’t do that.

Shannon: Thank you, Brother Michael, for that. I mean, I guess it’s more so a reality check, I want to say? To be mindful about what we are spending our time with. And I, you know, you said it best. I should be more mindful about what I’m paying attention to. But, you know, when I think about it, when it comes to phone addiction, it can really affect your time management. Like, you know, what Brother Michael said. 

Gretchen: Agree. 

McGill: Yeah. 100 percent. 

Shannon: And that happens, I guess, with all aspects of our life. You know, there’s been times when I have been on my phone and that ad that comes up like, hey, you know, time to stand up, you know, spend some time away from your phone, and I totally ignore it! I’m [like] don’t tell me what to do, ad. I’m going to keep scrolling on my phone. That has affected me because then I put everything else at the back and all of my priorities aren’t being paid attention to because I’m so busy just scrolling away. How has it affected you guys?

Gretchen: I guess it’s just how much you consume, right? Again, like I keep saying it, but I’m going to keep saying it.

Shannon: Gretch is the perfect example of a good time management phone screen time. She’s not addicted, but McGill and I, we probably are.

Gretchen: I guess like, when you mindlessly scroll right you consume so much media and how fast you consume it, of course it’s like, oh? That’s oh…wow. Wow.

Shannon: [Laughs]

McGill: [Laughs]

Gretchen: See! Even… even worse? I guess? But you know, one post is like super joyful, next thing you know, it’s sad and the next thing you know it like, sometimes it triggers certain emotions for some people where it’s like, ugh, okay, do I should I keep going? Like, is another one going to be sad? Is it another thing that’s going to trigger me or distract me of what I really need to be doing? So I’d say, yeah, it does affect mental health.

Shannon: So I know. I mean, there have been times where I am crying over dog videos. 

McGill: Aww

Shannon: Or like families uniting videos, those videos, they make me cry! But you know, the happy cries are like the INC Media content? Like I’m crying, I’m like happy crying, like, aww! She found God! And I’m like happily [crying]. I feel so happy for that person! But you are right. It takes an emotional toll being on social media. And you know, our phones, our screen time, our laptops, they play a big role in our dopamine levels. 

According to USA Today, dopamine is a brain chemical that literally makes us happy and it is released every time we receive something on our phones. It could be a text from a loved one, a like on any social media platform, or a bit of breaking news we find interesting. Dopamine feels good, so we keep checking our phones. 

I think I can relate to that because when you get a notification, you’re excited to hear from someone, right? You’re excited to be like, hey, that’s my friend who wants to reach out to me! Or if you post something on social media and you get likes or comments, you know, there’s notifications that pop up, so you’re intrigued and then you stay on there longer. And thus, McGill’s 11-hour screen time because he’s on his phone talking with friends. But I am exactly the same way. I don’t know how much screen time I have, but I’m pretty sure I’m more than McGill. I mean, I have to say that.

McGill: Yeah, I don’t know. Well, we looked at our screen times. It was just on our phones, right? But I’m not sure how much time I spend on my computer. I mean, it’s not so much nowadays, you know, because, you know, I’m barely home for some days, but with our phones, it’s so accessible to us, right? We have it on us for almost 24 hours in the day. So, it’s easy to just whip it out, and then, there you go. Screen time, screen time, screen time. 

Shannon: But, you know, our phones, it’s basically a positive stimuli because we want it keeps reinforcing that positivity. It keeps reinforcing that dopamine that keeps ringing in our head. And so I guess when it comes to phone addictions, there should be something that we should ask ourselves. And when it comes to being addicted to social media or, you know, our physical phones, you know, and I think it all comes to how is it affecting us, right?

Gretchen: Yeah. 

Shannon: But I wanted to go back to Brother Michael. You know, Brother Michael, you’ve heard our discussion, this whole time about being addicted to our phones. You know, tell us a little bit about how we can get past that. And, you know, what should be our mindset when it comes to finding the right balance between our online life and our real life, or you know, fixing our time management?

Brother Michael: Well yes, we can read here in Ephesians 5:15 to 17. This is what it states:

Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord’s will is.

[Ephesians 5:15-17 New International Version] 

Brother Michael: So the Bible clearly teaches us to live wisely. A person who lives like this, who lives wisely, really understands the importance of time management. They won’t be wasting precious time on activities or things that really aren’t beneficial to their life. But in fact, they could even be led into committing sin if they are just focused on these things. And that’s why for—especially for the youth, the young children and even the adults of the Church, we’re always being encouraged and reminded to make the most of the time that we have. For example, for the youth to pursue their education, to focus on their education. That’s the the way that we can lay groundwork for a successful future. 

Also, if they use that, as well as using their time to be more active, more participation in Church activities, that is truly a way that we can benefit and really prepare our future by focusing also on our service to God.

Shannon: Right, Brother Michael. I know that when it comes to, I guess, people, you know, who aren’t in the Church, I sometimes think that they prioritize their online life more than they do their their life here, you know, their physical life. And that sounds weird, but you see all of these people who would prioritize the best Instagram photo or the best photo that they can take of the day or, you know, trying to encapsulate this whole beautiful moment of their life. Instead of just really appreciating the life that they have, you know, that’s not on social media. 

I want to ask guys, do you see it too? Or do you think it’s common that people around us are prioritizing their online life, their influencer life, than they do, you know, here, being real, being wholesome? Like what we’re doing right now.

McGill: I definitely don’t think prioritizing your online life is a priority that should be our priority, because especially, you know, we’re members of the Church Of Christ. I don’t believe that should be our top priority, you know, for the ones that like it is their job to have an online presence, for sure. Personally, for me, I don’t, I don’t usually go on social media too often like Instagram and then all of those ones where you post and share pictures. I don’t really go on those kinds of social media. So, personally, it’s not my priority and I don’t really want it to be a priority. I want to focus on things in my real life, my day to day life, you know, going to work, going to the gym, going to Church, that stuff is really what I, what I take in. I’m not one to sit back and take pictures because I just, I like to, you know, enjoy the moment as it is because, you know, we could only see things with our eyes and seeing with our eyes instead of just a screen with a phone or… 

Shannon: McGill! You reminded me of something. There’s this like trend on social media and it’s like romanticizing, you know, they say normalize romanticizing mundane things, you know, the ordinary. But they’re still posting it on social media. 

McGill: Oh, wow, yeah… 

Shannon: But for us, God taught us to appreciate what we have, or appreciating every moment, right? So it’s like, why do we have to romanticize something on social media that is so simple when we can just appreciate it at that moment. We don’t have to post about it. We just appreciate it! We just yeah, you know, we’re grateful! 

McGill: I want to take the most in every moment!

Shannon: Exactly! 

McGill: So, if I’m with my friends in some sort of activity, I want to just appreciate everything with my eyes instead of capturing it all with my phone, but then my eyes miss everything! 

Shannon: Well, we know, because you lost your phone like three times at that activity

McGill: Yeah! I did lose my phone, so I couldn’t take pictures! But, you know! [Laughs] 

Shannon: But we definitely know that you were you, you weren’t using your phone.

Gretchen: He was definitely in the moment of looking for his phone!

McGill: I was in that moment looking for my phone. That’s what I use my eyes for! [Laughs] 

Shannon: And, Gretch, you know, I always compliment your Instagram because it’s so, it’s so pretty and it’s so beautiful. But I know you as a person. You know, I know you beyond social media and you know, you’re genuine, you’re so much more. 

And I feel like social media in general, our phones, our screen time, being addicted to it and trying to create this life online cannot, you know, encompass the entirety of who we are, especially as Christians.

Gretchen: That’s very true! Like I, I finally viewed social media as, like, if anything were to be posted, I think it’s just highlights, right? It’s just a highlight of what your life is. It’s not a definition of what your life is. 

Shannon: Right. 

Gretchen: So, I mean, what helped me is like, yeah, there was time where you focused so much on your online life where you forgot about reality. So it’s like, okay, let me just share, you know, off of the timeline of I’m doing, I’m going to post this right now. Like, I need to take this picture to post it now. Where it’s like, it’s fun to just be like, oh, guess what? Like I was, I traveled last week. I just want to share this. Like, I think that’s.

McGill: I love telling stories. That’s what I want to do. 

Gretchen: Right? That makes you be more in the moment. 

Shannon: And that’s why you guys are here with me, because we’re telling stories. We are in the moment. And actually, you know, in the same article that I told you guys earlier, you know, in USA Today, there are three tips on how to stop phone addiction. So, the first one is creating physical distance from you and your phone. And I think McGill puts it best in like throwing your phone or just forgetting about it. 

McGill: [Laughs] 

Shannon: And the second one is turning off [unwanted] notifications. And I know that, Gretch, you do that. You know, when I’m talking to you while I’m at work, you’re like, hey, I’m busy, I’m going to talk to you later and I know that you put your phone on, do not disturb or on work mode?

Gretchen: Always. 

Shannon: So you can focus! The third one is to make certain spaces or locations, phone or screen free. And I know that I do that because at home I don’t have a TV, I don’t have screens in my room. That space is my space. That is my space to just breathe and have my own space. And so I have that little corner, that reading nook that I have where there’s no screen, it’s just me being in the present. 

And, you know, as Christians, especially right now, it’s it’s so important to be mindful about our emotions and what we’re going through so that we can have more time and we can spend more time, you know, praying to God, having that moment and really, really just focusing on how much we love who we are and how we are living. Because it’s so different from how everybody else has been living. 

I know that a big part of us often asks, you know, what’s the problem with spending just a bit more time on the phone than usual? And as I don’t think that should be the question we should ask. I mean, I want to be open in saying that there are better things to spend our time on. You know, effective time management, especially with phone usage, gives us more time for God.

Of course, Brother Michael, I know that it’s hard to find the right balance between online life and real life. I know that you have the right answer.

Brother Michael: And that’s true. People will ask—we’re not saying that there’s anything wrong with using our devices, with spending time using our cell phones, our laptops, our tablets. There’s nothing wrong with using it, but it depends on how we use it. And we’ll read another verse here in Matthew 6:31 to 33:

“So don’t worry at all about having enough food and clothing. Why be like the heathen? For they take pride in all these things and are deeply concerned about them. But your heavenly Father already knows perfectly well that you need them, and he will give them to you if you give him first place in your life and live as he wants you to.

[Matthew 6:31-33 Living Bible] 

Brother Michael: So again, when it comes to using our devices, our cell phones, our laptops, our tablets, maybe for entertainment or of course, just looking things up on the Internet, there’s nothing wrong with that. But it shouldn’t be our priority. The Bible says that God should be our priority. It says that our worship or our service to God should be our priority. Why should God be our priority? Again, the Bible made mention God will give us everything that we need if we put Him first or give Him first place in our life and live as He wants us to. 

So it’s very important that as members of the Church Of Christ, we don’t get so absorbed and we don’t just focus on the things of this life, but instead focus more so on our service before God.

Shannon: Brother Michael, I know that you said it best, leaving it to God and focusing our time in the right place when it comes to life online or virtual, you know, it’s hard to balance, but I think if we prioritize God, He’ll help us figure that out. Thank you for the verses, Brother Michael Guerrero, and for reminding us to stay on the right track.

Brother Michael: Of course. 

Shannon: And to the other hosts, McCill and Gretch, thank you for this engaging and memorable conversation.

McGill: Thank you, Shannon! 

Gretchen: Thank you! 

Shannon: I really do enjoy being here on Heart and Soul with you guys! As always, we’re here to build ourselves and each other up. 

Now, if you want to check out our sources, feel free to visit incmedia.org and it’ll be at the bottom of our podcast. Thank you again for listening to INC Heart and Soul this week, and it’s here where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best Christian version of themselves. Bye, guys! Thanks for joining me! 

Gretchen: Bye! 

Brother Michael: Thank you! 

McGill: Bye you guys! Thank you so much.

Recognize Burnout Before Burning Out: Part 2

McGill Onate: There were times I don’t know what to do.

Gretchen Asuncion: So, that time that you have dedicated with God, it kind of helps you realign what your priorities are and God is there to listen. 

Brother Richie Juatco:  A life without God and a life with God are complete opposites. That is the reason why having God in our life makes all the difference.

[Show intro] 

Shannon Santamaria: You’re listening to Heart and Soul, a podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo (Church Of Christ). I’m one of your hosts, Shannon Santamaria, and it’s here where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best Christian version of themselves. This is Heart and Soul. 

[Music] 

Shannon: Welcome back everyone to our episode on burnout. This is a continuation of our last episode and we are going to pick back up right from where we left off. We hope everyone listening in will be able to learn more about dealing with burnout and be guided by the words of God.

Shannon: Looking back and talking about burnout with you guys has been a lot more reflective of why we have them. Maybe it’s so that I can lessen the amount of burnouts in the future. And if I haven’t experienced it yet, or maybe, like McGill hasn’t experienced it, I wanted to ask you, you know, if you haven’t experienced it yet, how can we help someone who is experiencing it? Maybe that’s a thought that I want to put in your guys’ minds, because feeling burnout might not happen to you, but it does definitely happen to people around you. McGill, have you ever helped someone who was experiencing extreme exhaustion or who wanted to feel like giving up?

McGill: I think I definitely encountered a couple of my friends, brethren in the Church, that have experienced burnout and that sort of exhaustion, of not not wanting to work, but just can’t work because it’s just really hard for them. Usually if it does come to that situation where they do ask for help or they’re in need of help, I would just chill with them, be in their presence and just do something that they enjoy to do.

So, if they enjoy playing video games, I’ll hop on a game with them and just chill and vibe and just allow all the stress to just freely flow. And just… because, you know, if you’re stressed—I’m pretty sure this can apply to a lot of us—if you’re stressed, do something that you love. And so whether it’s playing video games, going to the gym, I think what’s really nice and this definitely works for me if I’m sad or if I’m exhausted, just being with the people that you love, I think that’s just, just great. Just being in the company, even if you’re not doing anything, even if you’re just on call with someone, even if you’re just chilling on your phone and you guys are just in the same room, I love that! 

Shannon: Like, right now.

McGill: Yeah! Just right now! You know? We do this podcast, it’s not only to just talk about how to help ourselves, but hey, I’m having a good time and I hope you guys are having a good time, too.

Shannon: I know, McGill, I’m having a great time with you guys here. 

Shannon: So, Gretchen, how do you help out a friend who is experiencing burnout or who has experienced it? What are some ways that you helped them? 

Gretchen: I think, number one, if they find the time or… trust, right? Where they’re like, okay, I need to confide in you. Um, it’s actually very timely. It’s more of like, okay, so how are you feeling? Like, what are you feeling right now? What’s causing you to feel this burnout? So, kind of have them kind of focus on like, wait, okay, reality check. Like, why am I feeling this way? And then kind of offer like how can I help? Like, what is it that you need me to do? I’ve been asked that before, of: do you need me to listen or do you need a response? And I think that’s the…

Shannon: [Laughs] I think you’re talking about me?! No, I’m kidding. We are very good friends.

Gretchen: Yeah, very timely! [Laughs] And so, I’ve been using it personally with others who do ask me for advice or help or just wanting someone to listen, and I think that that’s important.  Where it’s like, do you want me to speak on like how I’ve experienced it before, or is it just for you to vent and someone to like, listen and not judge in any way. But just like for them to have a safe space to unload. So, it’s more of asking them how they’re doing and then providing them that safe space. 

Shannon: Right. Because feeling burnout can happen at any time if it’s, you know, something that we’re not used to managing. 

Shannon: Now, I know for us, you know, when we experience burnout, you know, sometimes we don’t know what to do or sometimes we have a friend who is experiencing that and you want to help them. So, I asked Dr. Sydney, what are a few tips that can help us reduce burnout? Let’s hear that clip.

[Phone conversation with Dr. Sydney continues] 

Dr. Sydney: Yeah. Um, I think the first piece is just knowing where you stand. Where are you at with how you’re handling stress? And kind of how you’ve been functioning at work or with your family or with your friends. Being able to self-assess and ask yourself questions and be able to… be able to identify how you’re doing is the first step.  

The two questions that I’d like to ask myself is how am I doing emotionally? And how am I doing physically? And based on those questions, they can tell me if I’m feeling stressed versus burnt out or burning out or where I’m at in that whole spectrum. Another important tip is enforcing boundaries. So this is kind of like a buzzword in psychology right now.

Shannon: Yes, it definitely is like boundaries, setting boundaries.

Dr. Sydney: Yeah! And the reason why is that with technology nowadays, we are accessible 24 hours in a day. You know, there’s a lot more remote working that’s happening. It almost feels like there really isn’t, you know, a specific end of your day for a work day. It feels like you can continue to work. So, being able to enforce those boundaries and say, you know, this is, you know, I’m ending my workday here, and I started my family time here, can really help us be able to manage the stress, so it doesn’t feel like it’s ongoing. So, being able to say these are the start and stop of my days or are there things that you can say no to or delegate? Those are different ways to be able to enforce boundaries. And then the last piece is being able to… I think it goes back to like the first tip is, again, like taking care of what we call our basic needs. 

Shannon: Right. 

Dr. Sydney: Are you eating well? Are you moving at least, you know, I don’t know exactly what the recommended time is, but you know? 

Shannon: Yeah, like 30 minutes a day I believe is what the doctors say.

Dr. Sydney: Yeah, so. So sometimes some people are just sitting throughout the day.

Shannon: Right.

Dr. Sydney: Some of us might have, like, more sedentary jobs. So, are we talking to other people and having meaningful conversations? It’s not just just talking about work. So having like some sort of social peace in your day and having that balance. And then also have, you know, doing some sort of relaxing activity or creative activity or exploring some sort of hobby, again, like being able to separate yourself from your everyday work and have your mind do something a little bit different that can help us motivate us or inspire us and reduce, hopefully, the burnout that we experience.

[Playback ends] 

Shannon: So to recap what she had said. It was actually to, first, analyze what it is that we are experiencing. The second is to set boundaries, and the third is to make sure that we are taking care of our basic necessities. 

Shannon: Now, I actually read an article about beating burnout.

Shannon: The first step is recognizing warning signs and the second is understanding what type of burnout you’re headed. You know, is it exhaustion, feeling detached in an ineffectiveness or lack of quality of work? Or is it three, you know, taking time to break that stress cycle, understanding where you’re coming from, and seeing how you can avoid that same situation from happening again. And the fourth is learning to draw and respect your own boundaries. 

Now, you know, we’ve heard tips from Dr. Sydney. We’ve heard tips from the sources that we’re reading. Have these tips worked on you before? McGill and Gretchen? Or have you ever tried working on these tips? Have you ever heard of them? 

Gretchen: Not itemized in that way. I guess. So, recognizing warning signs, of course, like I said earlier, the quality of work or where you feel exhausted, where you start to feel a disconnect with everything else. Understanding what type of burnout, as mentioned. And then to break the stress cycle? I don’t know if I’ve ever reached that part because… I… keep going back to burnout? [Laughs] 

Shannon: Oh? [Laughs] Well, you’ll love the ending of this episode then! Because I know that Brother Richie has a verse for us to help us alleviate burnout… and prevent it! [Laughs] 

Shannon: What about you, McGill? Have you ever tried these tips on a friend or do you do these yourselves too, so that you never experience burnout? The… I have both sides of, “I have burn out a lot,” and, “I’ve never burned out.” So, it’s really nice to see I’m kind of in the middle!

McGill: Well, thinking about it, have I tried to do this on a friend? Maybe? Maybe not? But like with myself, I think what I connect most with is like reflecting and just recognizing the warning signs. Because, you know, I mean, we all experience stress, right? And so when I’m very stressed, I like to just take a moment, well maybe not even take a moment to myself, but whenever I am with myself, I just I talk to myself and I try to say, like, what’s going on? Like, I’m like my own friend. And like, I’m just talking to myself. Because hearing it, hearing yourself talk, I think it’s just it really helps! It’s just like: [McGill’s dialogue with himself begins] 

McGill 1 – “Okay, McGill, what’s going on? Why are you stressed?”

McGill 2 – “I don’t got a job, what am I going to do about that?” 

Shannon: [Laughs] You are your own friend! 

McGill: [McGill’s dialogue with himself continues] 

McGill 1 – “You know, you’re not going to get a job if you’re just going to, you know, sit around and just not do anything! You think you’re going to get a job? Do you think God’s going to be happy with you not working and then He’s going to give you something for free? That’s not how life works. Come on, man!” 

McGill 2 – “Hey, you know what? You’re right! You know what? I was just going to just… I’m just going to do it, you know? What am I being stressed about? 

[McGill’s dialogue with himself ends] 

Gretchen: [Laughs] The dialogue! 

McGill: You know!? Like, that’s kind of how I do things to prevent burnout. I think I just have a lot of conversations with myself. I think that’s what’s going on. I’m just like… [Laughs] 

Shannon: [Laughs] Being self-aware. I think that’s the more… 

McGill: Yeah, I think that’s the one. 

Shannon: Understanding point of view, you know, being self aware of where you are and how you’re feeling. And you know, trying to find validity, I guess if that’s the right word? Trying to, I guess, break that perspective of being overworked and seeing how you can resolve it. But I wanted to go back to Brother Richie. I wanted to bring it back to our faith. What can we do as Christians to prevent burnout? And I know, Brother Richie, you have the perfect answer for that! We were talking about this the other day, actually.

Brother Richie: So, what can we do as Christians, right? It’s actually very interesting hearing Dr. Sydney, and we agree with a lot of what she says – know your situation, you analyze, you set boundaries. There’s something that she mentioned also about like emotional burnout leads to physical burnout. So, one’s status of emotion can definitely affect the other aspects, right, physically? 

Shannon: Yes. 

Brother Richie: I like how Gretchen, you know, she focuses in on letting somebody vent, right? When she mentioned helping someone, knowing that maybe they just want to, to vent, you know? And then, McGill, he focuses on like, he’s trying to advise himself.

Shannon: Right. 

Brother Richie: You know, he’s trying to talk it through. Which actually goes into why the biblical advice that we are going to read is so important because to know who to vent to, to know what advice to run in your mind, it really is important to always remember God. Because He really is the One that can help in all of these different situations. So, again, if we really want the right guidance, we go to the Bible, and let’s read the instruction that the Bible gives. We want to prevent it. You know, we talked about what happens when we actually do get burnt out or exhausted. But listen to this advice here. Here, in Philippians 4:6, it says: 

So never allow yourselves to get uptight and anxiously concerned about anything. But in every situation, you must earnestly continue to plead with God in prayer about your problem and the needs you have. And be sure to thank Him for the way He will work everything out, for His great interest in you, and for His many blessings of both the past and present.

[Philippians 4:6 The Last Days Bible] 

Brother Richie: These words of wisdom, these biblical guidance, is something that, you know, is here for us to learn and follow. It says here, notice the very first part of the verse says, “never allow [ourselves] to get uptight and anxiously concerned about everything.” So, that’s something that we need to be conscious of. That’s why when we heard, like, “know your situation,” “analyze,” if it’s starting to get that way, we should understand, like, that’s not what we should do. The Bible says, “never allow yourself to do that.”

Now, some listening might think, “Well, wait a second, how can I not allow myself to do that?” There’s like all these things that are happening! So what can I do? The Bible says, “in every situation you must earnestly continue to plead with God in prayer.” So, that is where that faith comes in. When you said, you know, us as Christians, you know, what should we do? We should definitely lean on that. We should use prayer to approach God. What are we going to pray about? Let’s go back to the verse. It says, “pray about your problems and the needs you have.” So just mentioning it in the prayer, right, actually giving it to God, saying it, you know, if you’re going to say it, a personal prayer, you say it in your mind. If it’s out loud, you’ll get to hear it. But you give it you give it to Him. 

Now, what is the approach that we should have when we pray to God? The verse continues, it says, “be sure to thank Him for the way [that] He will work everything out.” Now, notice that? That mindset is already positive, right? Because from what we heard about the actual definition of burnout, right? Mental exhaustion, something that is more than just tired, they can’t bounce back, they have a negative thinking. But here it is the opposite, right? One has a positive thinking. One feels that and believes that, you know, God is going to help me. That is the reason why having God in our life makes all the difference. A life without God and a life with God are complete opposites. Right? And that is the reason why us, inside the Church Of Christ, this is what we follow, this is what we hold on to, and this is what we share with everyone. Because we know life with God is different. We’ll get strength from Him. We do want to point out, right, because the Bible says you should continue to plead with God in prayer. If we go to other versions of the Bible, the Bible actually mentions who God listens to right? I’m sure everyone who wants help from God, they’ll pray. But God is very clear who He hears and who He answers. And that is what we want for everyone. We want that for our friends. We want that for our relatives. We want that for anyone that is listening today! We want to share with you those conditions that God has so that everyone can be heard by Him, can be answered by Him, and can receive the strength that He promises to give those that are obedient and faithful to Him.

Shannon: Brother Richie, you know, this Heart and Soul episode kind of helps me reflect and understand what I need to do and where I need to go when life is getting pretty rough or when I feel like I’m being overwhelmed by my day to day responsibilities. I know that, you know, the first thing we’re always taught is to pray, right? Prayer is our first defense and prayer is our first offense. I’ve heard it multiple times and, I guess, it’s really nice to see that Heart and Soul, here, you know, what we have here is talking about real problems that we experience, that we might experience, or problems that our friends might experience, and a solution to helping us get through them. And I’m so thankful that you were here with us. 

Brother Richie: Thank you so much for inviting me.

Shannon: Yeah! We have Heart and Soul, where we can get biblical advice about these problems that everyone is experiencing, problems that we’re too shy to ask help from. And we’re openly talking about it and being vulnerable with each other and looking to God for advice. And I think that’s what makes this show and even shows on INC Media so special, is that… where it’ll always be biblically backed, and there will always be a solution for us, even if we think there might not be one. 

Shannon: Yes. You know, actually, we talked about burnout and burnout being the problem. But now, I want to emphasize how prayer, trusting God is the solution to burnout, the solution to the common problems that we experience. Wouldn’t you guys agree?

Gretchen: 100%!

McGill: Yes. For sure! 

Shannon: Brother Richie, when it comes to prayers or values, I guess. Because you mentioned how it’s important to pray and it’s important to learn who the right people are to vent to. And it’s important to talk to yourself… talk to yourself out of the situation. But if you don’t have the values set in stone?

Brother Richie: Right.

Shannon: None of those things would work, right?

Brother Richie: For sure. For sure. And you know, as we are discussing this topic, it really actually comes down to how someone views things, right? 

Shannon: Right. 

Brother Richie: Maybe their mindset, how to handle the emotions that are raging, right? So, that’s why if one can get a hold of that, if one can get guidance there, then – just like what we heard from Dr. Sydney, right? The emotional self kind of spills into like the physical self – it would also domino effect positively if one had the right mindset of how to handle different problems. If one knew what to do when those types of stresses come, then it would also impact the physical aspect of their life. It will impact the spiritual aspect. And so it really… if we can just hone in and make sure that we handle it the right way, then it’s not such a bad situation, you know, that comes our way.

Shannon: I think that can only happen if we’re consistently attending worship service, being active and always remembering, you know, what God’s teaching us. Because those are like the fundamentals of what we need to analyze, you know? How to get ourselves out of these predicaments. Right?

I actually wanted to ask, how has prayer, you know, Brother Richie really explained to us that God is willing to hear and answer our prayers. How has He helped us, you know, when we were feeling like we had too many responsibilities or when you wanted to help a friend, how did prayer help you?

Gretchen: I think it was being able to realign yourself with God again. We sometimes get very… where, again, our day to day responsibilities get heavy. So, that time that you have dedicated with God, it kind of helps you realign what your priorities are and God is there to listen. So,  whatever ups or downs that you have, it’s like God is going to see you through and really guide you through the process and make sure you overcome it.

McGill: Yeah. God, God is really amazing. Like, can we like, you know, thinking of how my life and how it’s going. Because, you know, there were times when I’m very stressed out. There were times when I don’t know what to do. There was a point in my life, well, I’d say like maybe a month ago, I was unemployed. I graduated from college. I have no job. What am I going to do? I can’t find any work in my industry. And with all of my saved up money, it was all going to hit that zero mark, and it did hit that zero mark! I had no idea what to do! I can’t find a job. But then as soon as my account hit zero, I continued to pray throughout the entirety of every single day requesting for a job. Please, God, help me find something. As soon as my account hit zero, I got a job! And God works in such mysterious ways and it’s so amazing what prayer can do and when there’s times when I’m very stressed and I’m sure with all of us here, when we’re so stressed, we don’t know what to do, God has answers for us, and He will answer our prayers as long as we, you know, put all of our trust in Him. It’s really amazing what, like, everything! Here in the Church, it’s so amazing. And I can’t thank God enough for all that He has done for my life, and I’m sure for your guys life as well.

Shannon: I wanted to say thank you so much for joining me on today’s episode. I can feel you guys smiling as you guys speak. I can hear it, how God has helped you, how God has made you happy, and how God has helped you solve these problems! These daily problems that we might experience. And if we ever feel we are approaching a burnout, I hope you can remember our wholesome conversation here on Heart and Soul, where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best version of themselves. Thank you again for everyone tuning in and I hope to see you next time here on Heart and Soul. Bye, guys!

Gretchen: Bye! 

McGill: Bye, everyone! 

Brother Richie: Bye bye! 

Recognize Burnout Before Burning Out: Part 1

Gretchen Asuncion: Then it kind of blows up in your face of, oh, did I take on too much or I missed something. 

McGill Onate: There’s a lot of different things that I’m, like learning throughout this entire conversation, so hopefully you guys can enlighten me and stuff like that. 

Brother Richie Juatco: There’s actually a condition that God is waiting for, so that He can give that strength. What is that? 

[Show intro] 

Shannon Santamaria: You’re listening to Heart and Soul, a podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church Of Christ. I’m one of your hosts, Shannon Santamaria, and it’s here where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best Christian version of themselves. This is Heart and Soul. 

[Show Open]

Shannon: Hey guys! Welcome to Heart and Soul! And with me today are my hosts, Gretchen. Hey, Gretchen! 

Gretchen: Hello, hello! 

Shannon: Welcome back! And McGill. Hey, McGill! 

McGill: Hey, Shannon! What’s up, everyone?

Shannon: It’s good. It’s nice to see you here today with me. And with us is a minister of the Gospel, Brother Richie Juatco. Hi, Brother! 

Brother Richie: How are you? How are you, Shannon? Gretchen? McGill? Very nice to be with you guys!

McGill: Good, good! How are you?

Brother Richie: I’m very good. I’m very good. Thank you for asking! 

McGill: Oh, of course.

Shannon: It is so nice for all of you guys to be joining me today. I actually wanted to talk about what a lot of people have been feeling lately and that’s burnout. I know, before we met, I was talking with you guys a little bit about burnout, just a casual conversation. And I thought, why not bring it to Heart and Soul and, you know, be guided by the words of God?

I actually spoke to one of our friends, Dr. Sydney Fontanares. Just a refresher: Dr. Sydney is a clinical psychologist in the San Francisco Bay Area and a Church Of Christ member. She’s been on our show a couple of times already, and I reached out to her about burnout. Now, here’s what she had to say: 

[Phone ringing] 

[Phone conversation with Dr. Sydney begins] 

Shannon: Hey, Dr. Sydney! 

Dr. Sydney: Hi. Hello. Hi, Shannon. How are you?

Shannon: I’m good. I’m so glad you were able to make this phone call with me. 

Dr. Sydney: For sure. 

Shannon: I know that our podcast is actually talking about burnout and experiencing burnout, and I have a couple of questions for you. Are you free?

Dr. Sydney: Yes! I am.

Shannon: Okay, awesome. So I wanted to ask, what is the clinical definition of burnout?

Dr. Sydney: Sure. So according to the Mayo Clinic, it’s a state of physical or emotional exhaustion that also involves a sense of reduced accomplishment and a loss of personal identity. So kind of to, if you don’t mind, Shannon, if I could break that down? 

Shannon: Yeah, definitely! 

Dr. Sydney: You know, there are, you know, when you’re working, there is a normal response to feeling stressed or tired, and usually if we take a nap or do something to take care of ourselves, we can bounce back. But with what we’re seeing with people who experience burnout, they’re having a little bit more difficulty in doing this. And then not only are they having difficulty with bouncing back at work, but also it’s starting to affect different aspects of their life, including outside of work.

Shannon: Oh, wow. 

Dr. Sydney: Yeah, yeah. It’s kind of, what we call it, I’m not exactly sure what we call it, but it kind of sneaks up on you actually, and you don’t quickly, you know, see it coming. We call it, what is it? 20/20? Hindsight is 20/20. 

Shannon: Shannon: Right. 

Dr. Sydney: And then you look back and you’re like, oh, man, I was burnt out this entire time, and that’s why it… m-hmm? 

[Phone conversation with Dr. Sydney fades] 

Shannon: That was actually a little bit of my conversation with Dr. Sydney. I wanted to really define, you know, the clinical definition of burnout right off the bat. There might be a little bit of confusion about what it is, but now that we kind of all sat here and listened to the quick conversation that I had with her, you know, burnout is something that we all experience. Have you guys had that happen to you before?

Gretchen: Yeah, I’d say so, especially when you take so much on. Where it’s like, yes! I can do it! You want to make sure that you’re able to attend to your needs and everyone else’s needs, and then it kind of blows up in your face of, oh, that I take on too much or I missed something. So yes, I’ve definitely felt it.

Shannon: What about you, McGill?

McGill: As for me, after listening to what Dr. Sydney had to say, I don’t think I’ve ever experienced burnout. 

Shannon: Oh, wow! That’s impressive! 

McGill: I don’t know, is it impressive? [Laughs] 

Gretchen: Elite! 

McGill: I don’t know. I mean, you know, I do have my job and I have duties in the Church and, you know, my personal, like, obligations and different things that I do. You know, I just keep going the day to day, but I’ve never really experienced, like, overworking myself and, like, stopping myself from doing things that I like to do and stuff like that. So, I mean, this is all new to me, actually. I’m not exposed to this kind of whatever burnout really is. I don’t know if it’s like a condition or an experience that some people face from time to time. So, yeah, this is completely new to me. I don’t I don’t really know what burnout is. So yeah, [I] have not experienced it.

Shannon: I know that we have two different hosts here with me today, Gretchen and I, who have experienced burnout, and McGill, who has yet to experience it. If not, he might never?! Which is amazing! And it’s a really great perspective to have, right? Because it might be just whether you’re able to manage all of your responsibilities or you just know how to take care of yourself and be more mindful about the situation. And I think for me, when it comes to burnout, I tend to experience it a lot more when I take on responsibilities without realizing that I already have a lot to take on. That might happen to you in the future, it might have already happened to whoever’s listening, but I know that I did talk to Dr. Sydney about the signs of burnout. 

[Phone conversation with Dr. Sydney continues] 

Shannon: You know, you’re, you’re kind of burnt out or is burnout like you’re burnt out like full extreme?

Dr. Sydney: I would say so. From what we’ve been seeing is that there can be a spectrum of burnout where people kind of get in trouble is when we start to really see three specific things, which includes the first thing, which is exhaustion.

Shannon: Right. 

Dr. Sydney: So just feeling, you know, physically tired at the end of the day or even throughout the workday or even after a full night’s rest. And you can do, you know, you do multiple naps throughout the day and not really feeling fully rested. You know, that when you’re feeling tired, it affects your concentration, your focus, your mood. So, that’s one piece. The other pieces are feeling cynical or just this kind of just negative outlook on your work or just life in general.

So for instance, like if you’re already kind of behind at work and it just keeps continuing to pile up and even if you make some sort of dent, it still kind of feels like you’re sinking in the work that you do. And then just feeling numb at work. We see burnout a lot with our health care workers. You know, usually they go into that job, you know, wanting to help others, you know, being in the helping field. But when they’re starting to experience burnout, it’s a little bit harder to access that compassionate side of themselves or, you know, trying to be emotionally distant, not caring anymore.

Shannon: Oh wow.

Dr. Sydney: Yeah, yeah, it almost feels like you are kind of a different person, or sounds like it. And then the last one is a decrease in performance. So like I mentioned before, just having a hard time concentrating. Or if you are in a field where you have to do a lot of problem solving, you are just having a hard time being creative and problem solving or doing your admin work. And then like I mentioned before it can affect different parts of your life. So with family life, with your personal, interpersonal like being with your friends. So those parts start to get affected when we feel burnt out.

[Phone conversation with Dr. Sydney fades] 

Shannon: Yeah. So, I mean, I had the pleasure of talking with Dr. Sydney and really kind of understanding where burnout comes from and that the spectrum that it has to each and every single one of us. Brother Richie, I wanted to talk to you and really understand if we can resolve burnout. If there is a way where we can really take care of ourselves or I guess the question that I wanted to ask or clarify is, does the Bible have any verses regarding burnout or being more mindful about taking care of yourself?

Brother Richie Juatco: Well, for sure, the Bible always has guidance when it comes to how we live. Right? Because the one that created us is our Almighty God. And His words are written in the Bible, which shows us the proper way to live or the way that He intended us to live. So, it is interesting that we are kind of discussing this subject of burnout or mental exhaustion. You know, something that is a little bit more than just being tired because in the clip that you played, Dr. Sydney said it’s something that people aren’t able to bounce back from. Right? So when it comes to how we should be in taking care of ourselves, the Bible does have some guidance for us and we can go ahead and read that. We’ll read from what’s written in 1 Thessalonians, 5 is the chapter, and we’ll read from verse 23. It says: 

“May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ”

[1 Thessalonians 5:23 New Revised Standard Version] 

Brother Richie: So, the Bible does tell us that “May…God—”  (the One who created us) the “God of peace…” May He be the One to keep us safe, sanctify us entirely. Now, when the Bible says entirely, what are the parts that make up our entire beings? Well, the Bible actually clarified, it said, “may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound…” 

So, we should keep our entirety sound. If we read other translations or what sound is intact, you know, preserved, free from fault. So, it is something that we do need to take seriously. We need to make sure that we look after ourselves, our entire being. We should take care of ourselves. But since the Bible is mentioning, may that happen to you, may that be your situation–it’s teaching us this because these things do happen. There are times we do get tired. There are times we do lose our strength. 

So, what guidance does the Bible give us when that happens? You know, again, we go back to what’s happening to a lot of people around the world, what’s happening, I mean, even professionals, like Dr. Sydney, [are] noticing it. So, we can see by ourselves, you know, as human beings, there’s only so much that we can do. So, what guidance does the Bible give us to help keep ourselves sound and intact? We’ll read again from what is recorded in the Holy Scriptures. Now we’ll read from Isaiah 40:28 to 31. So it says this:

Don’t you know? Haven’t you heard? The LORD is the everlasting God; he created all the world. He never grows tired or weary. No one understands his thoughts. He strengthens those who are weak and tired. Even those who are young grow weak; young people can fall exhausted. But those who trust in the LORD for help will find their strength renewed. They will rise on wings like eagles; they will run and not get weary; they will walk and not grow weak.

[Isaiah 40:28-31 Good News Translation] 

Brother Richie: There is a biblical instruction [on] how to always have the strength that we need so we won’t get burnt out. We won’t get so exhausted. In fact, the Bible does say that men do fall to exhaustion. It does happen. So how can we get the strength that we need? The Bible says God is the one who strengthens the weak and those that are tired. 

So, many people might say, “Well, wait a second, I’m tired. How come I didn’t get the strength that God gives?” Well, there’s an actual qualifier, right? There’s actually a condition that God is waiting for, so that He can give that strength. What is that? We read earlier, it says, “those who trust in the Lord will find their strength renewed.” 

So, that’s what we need to do. We need to show that we trust in God and that is why those inside the Church Of Christ, this is what we rely on. We really rely on God’s words. We really rely on God to give us the strength that we need. And that’s why, no matter what the situation might be, if we hold on to this, if we follow these instructions, we’ll always get that renewed strength that we need. I hope that helps.

Shannon: Definitely! Brother Richie, I know that, you know, you mentioned it earlier, that we are meant to feel exhaustion. Is that correct?

Brother Richie: Well, it’s just that it does happen.

Shannon: Right. And we can’t prevent it sometimes. Is that right?

Brother Richie: Well, there are ways to… because the Bible does say may our entire being be sound. 

Shannon: Right. 

Brother Richie: So there are ways that the Bible does kind of give us guidance to make sure that we get that strength. We said that we trust in God. So, one of the ways that we trust God is we follow His instructions.

Shannon: Well, I just wanted to clarify that because, you know, there are several podcasts and even things that we see online where burnout is what we experience today because of this intense feeling of placing so much meaning into work or the work that we have for us. And I am just thinking biblically that, you know, if we place our trust in God, you know, we can prevent those things. 

Brother Richie: For sure! For sure. And, you know, you mentioned right, there are many people that feel that. But even just us here because we’re actually just a few number of people. We see that there is actually a split. There are some that have experienced it, and… McGill, who’s with us, who said that he hasn’t yet! [Laughs] So, we can see that there are some that they… it might be in really just the way to handle the situation. The situations will come, [but] how do we handle it? What is it that we can do?

Shannon: Well, I you know, I guess one of the things that I wanted to ask the hosts is that, you know, how do you go about recognizing burnout or whether you’re burnt out, whether you’ve been overworked? Is that something that happens to you guys? With, you know, there must have been a time, even if you’ve never experienced burnout, McGill, where you were like, I need a rest! This is a definite rest day. Those could be, like, minor signs of burnout.

McGill: Hmm. Yeah, I… while we were all talking and thinking, I was like have I ever experienced this? Well, usually, like, when I have free time in my hands, I would always think to myself, should I go to the gym? Because if I have free time, that’s free time to go like work. And so, when I have a moment like that, but I literally can’t like move, go to my car and drive there to the gym, then I tell myself, if my body is telling me I cannot move anymore from a hard day’s work, or now that I am done [with] my work, I have free time, should I go to the gym, but I cannot move? Then I’ll tell myself, okay, now you can rest. Use this time to rest, and then you can get back to work once you have energy. That’s what I tell myself. And so I don’t think I’ve ever gotten to the point where it’s like, Oh, man, I can’t do it. I had multiple naps in one day and like, I still feel exhausted. I don’t think that has ever happened to me, but I do take rests here and there, of course. Who doesn’t rest? But yeah, that’s kind of like where my mind’s at. Maybe I’m looking at this at a different angle, with different lenses, a different perspective on how… I don’t know? There’s a lot of different things that I’m, like learning throughout this entire conversation, so hopefully you guys can enlighten me and stuff like that. 

Shannon: It’s really nice to have this blind reaction with you. Maybe at the end of this you’ll be able to see what it is, how to feel burn out in its different spectrums. But you, I mean, I know that I spoke with you, Gretchen. We’ve had our fair share of personal talks and heartful moments. I guess, for you, how do you start recognizing that you’re burnt out or that you need rest?

Gretchen: I think it’s the quality that I put into the things that are important to me. So it’s more of when I see that, oh, I just have to get it done. But it lacks the quality that I feel like I could give more of, but because I’m so exhausted and I have 500 other things that I need to do, it’s just like another check off the list versus actually taking that time to be like, okay, if there… if the expectation is for it to have this quality of work, is it just a checkmark or is it just… or do I should I like communicate like, hey, I think I need a bit more time on this, but here’s what I have so far. So, I think it’s noticing that there is, like, a lack of quality because if I can’t give it to myself, what more of the things that I put my time in? So it’s like that’s where you have to step back and be like, okay, do I just want to give whatever? Or do I want to give quality work?

Shannon: I mean, I feel like burnout might be because we are lacking balance in life and balance is a difficult thing to have too, especially when we have multiple things on our plate. Brother Richie, is there anything in the Bible that might help us understand how important it is to have balance in our life? To have the right priorities set so that these things don’t get overtaken by us?

Brother Richie: For sure! For sure. You know, the first verse that we read, it gave us some insight, right? It said spirit, soul, body. So, we have some understanding of how to get the strength that God is providing with the instructions that He has. So, what does the Bible teach us regarding getting that strength that God can provide? Let’s now turn to what’s recorded in 1 Timothy, we’ll read from 4:8, and again, we will follow the instructions that the Bible gives. Here, it says: 

Physical exercise has some value, but spiritual exercise is valuable in every way, because it promises life both for the present and for the future. 

[1 Timothy 4:8 Today’s English Version] 

Brother Richie: So what instruction does the Bible give us? Because we said it gave us some insight with the different parts that make up our entire being. Here, when it comes to the body, it says, “physical exercise has some value.” So, when we look at our physical body, if we know how to get it stronger, right, then we will know even the other parts like what to do. I’ll even ask… I’ll ask those here. If you want your body to be physically strong, let me ask you, what would you do? How would you go about to get stronger?

Shannon: I would work out.

Gretchen: Yeah.

McGill: You workout. Yeah. 

Brother Richie: Right. You work out. 

Shannon: Add some weights? I don’t know. 

Brother Richie: There you go.

McGill: You add some iron.

Brother Richie: You lift weights, right?

Shannon: Yes. 

Brother Richie: The saying, pump iron, right? You’re actually putting stress on yourself. But notice. Notice. It’s a controlled stress, right? You’re actually putting stress on yourself, but you could overdo it. So, you put stress on yourself, and then you give yourself time to recover. Then you… Okay. So, let me ask this: If you lift a certain amount of weight, right, and it is hard in the beginning, after a while it doesn’t it’s not so hard because what happened? Your body adjusted, right? Now, I ask you this: If you want to get even stronger, then what do you do? 

McGill: You keep on going consistently over and over until you gradually get there? 

Gretchen: You train. 

Shannon: I’m not sure of the question. 

Brother Richie: Okay. So, you guys are right!  

Gretchen: We’re trying! 

Brother Richie: You’re almost there! 

Shannon: I want to make sure you tell us the right answer. I think we’re all lost here! 

Brother Richie: If you lift a particular weight, right? So, you put a particular weight on. It’s hard in the beginning and then it becomes easy. If you want to get stronger, what do you do? Do you keep lifting that weight?

McGill: Oh, you go, you do it a little less. 

Gretchen: No, you add more. 

Shannon: No, you add more weight. 

Brother Richie: You actually add more stress to yourself. 

Shannon: I thought that was a trick question

Brother Richie: No, it’s not a trick question. So, we can see right with the physical body, that is how it grows. And even, you know, mentally, that actually kind of helps us as well. Sometimes it gives us a break when we exercise physically, right? But even mentally, sometimes we give ourselves some exercises to get stronger. But notice – I don’t want to leave the verse yet – if it comes to the different aspects of our life, what is it that the Bible instructs us? We read earlier, spiritual exercise – what is that? It says, “it is valuable in every way.” Why in every way? It says, “because it promises life both for the present and for the future.” 

Notice in the verses we read, right? Spiritual exercise, physical exercise. Spirit, mind, body, emotional, mental, physical. There’s only one part of there that you can see. Everything else you cannot see. You cannot see someone’s spirituality. You cannot see their mentality. You can’t see that. But you can see their physical state. That’s why we always encourage… if you learn your body, if you learn how to strengthen it, if you learn how to exercise, you just learn how it works… then you will know how everything else works, right? You will actually know how to use that to lateral over to the different parts. We’re not saying if you’re not physically strong, if you’re not physically fit, then you’re not spiritually strong or spiritually fit. We’re not saying that. But what we can say is if you know how to strengthen yourself physically, all you have to do is use those techniques to the other aspects of your life. Right? Because you will actually get to see if it’s working. You will see, oh my, he got stronger. Or wow, she actually… her endurance is up! Like, she can run longer. You can actually see that’s what happened. So, all you have to do is take those techniques and move them over to the mental aspect, to the emotional aspect, to the spiritual aspect.

Shannon: I want to ask because, you know, you’re saying like… Okay, if we know how to physically get strong, right? And we use those tips to put it into being emotionally and spiritually strong, would you say that our whole being is, like… intertwined, I guess? 

Because if you can use those tips to be physically strong, then you can use those tips to be emotionally strong. When I think of that, I think of, okay, if they’re… if they can get physically strong, in the process of them being physically strong, they’re also learning how to be mentally strong at the same time. Because, you know, you’re physically fighting through a weight, but there’s, like, mental struggles to go through that, too. Would you say that it’s like all… 

Brother Richie: For sure. 

Shannon: I guess I wanted to clarify that part… 

Brother Richie: Are you talking about [how] different people are intertwined? Or those aspects of an individual’s life is inter… 

Shannon: Of ourselves. Yeah. 

Brother Richie: For sure! For sure! 

Shannon: And that’s biblical?

Brother Richie: Yeah. Because that’s what makes us a human-being: the spirit, the soul and the body. And you have to be conscious about it, right? Because there are people… there are people that are physically strong, but they’re not strong in their faith. There are people that are, you know, they might be mentally tough, but physically they’re not tough. Like, you have to consciously use it in every aspect.

Brother Richie: So in the balance that you mentioned earlier, Shannon, these are the ways that we can balance our life, right? We can make sure that we are strong physically. We said lifting weights, go running, you know, stretch, do what we can so that we don’t get that, maybe, that mental burnout. But the spirituality, we also want to exercise that. And again, that’s the reason why the members of the Church Of Christ, how we are taught, is that we never forsake the worship service, we don’t miss the worship service. We participate in all of the various Church activities. There’s a lot of campaigns that the Church has. We make sure that we have participation because the promise is it’s really not just for this life, but for the future. What’s the future? That’s the eternal life. That’s what we really are after.

Shannon: You know, Brother Richie, looking back and talking about burnout with you guys has been a lot more reflective of why we have them. Maybe it’s so that I can lessen the amount of burnouts in the future. And if I haven’t experienced it yet, or maybe, like McGill hasn’t experienced it, I wanted to ask you, you know, if you haven’t experienced it yet, how can we help someone who is experiencing it? Maybe that’s a thought that I want to put in your guys’ minds, because feeling burnout might not happen to you, but it does definitely happen to people around you. McGill, have you ever helped someone who was experiencing extreme exhaustion or who wanted to feel like giving up?

[Music] 

Shannon: So that was part 1 of our episode on burnout. We hope everyone joining us today was able to learn a little bit more about burnout and how to recognize being burnt out. Stay tuned for the part 2 [on] our next episode which will tackle how to deal with burnout and be guided once again by the words of God. 

It’s Okay to Ask for Help

Brother Solo Figueroa: Though we were weak at the time, though we may have been confused at that time. But when we made that prayer and we really ask God for that help, that specific help that we were looking for. He provided for us, right?

Shannon Santamaria: You know, Brother Solo you put it best asking for help from Him. And I think all of us can really take that advice and run with it, because it’s the best kind of advice.

[Music]

Shannon: You’re listening to Heart And Soul, a podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church Of Christ. I’m one of your hosts, Shannon Santamaria, and it’s here where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best version of themselves. This is Heart and Soul.

[Show intro]

Shannon: Hey, everyone, it’s Shannon. And today I want to talk about how to effectively ask for help. And with me today, our host, Gretchen. Hey, Gretchen.

Gretchen Asuncion: Hey. 

Shannon: Nice to see you again.

Gretchen: Same to you

Shannon: And hey, McGill.

McGill Onate: What’s up, Shannon?

Shannon: Hey. And of course, with us is the Minister of the Gospel Brothers Solo. Hi, Brother Solo.

Brother Solo: Hi sister Shannon. Hi, everyone. Thank you for having me.

Shannon: I’m so glad you’re here with us. And I feel like you are the perfect person to ask for help in this podcast. Actually, you know I’ve actually had a lot of advice and I’ve openly asked for your help Brother Solo. Asking for help is a difficult thing to do because, you know, there are a lot of insecurities and maybe even, you know, I guess, vulnerability when it comes to asking for help, right Gretchen?

Gretchen: Yeah, definitely. It can sometimes be seen as a weakness because we are all empowered to be able to do it on our own.

Shannon: Right. Now McGill I want to know if you’ve ever had a moment where you, you know, struggled with asking for help, you know, whether it was in public or whether you were scared to ask for help from a friend. I know I’ve had my fair share of moments.

McGill: I’m 100% guilty of that. Like, I mean, I probably still am guilty about that today. You know, a lot of my mindset around nowadays is that I can do everything on my own. I’m okay. I’m strong. I don’t really need another one’s help. Or if I am going through problems, I can do things generally on my own. But I know thinking like that nowadays isn’t the best way to think about things. But yeah, I’ve definitely been guilty about not asking for help when I definitely do need it.

Shannon: I know I remember I would keep things to myself because I thought, you know, asking for help isn’t like—what you said, it wasn’t the best option to do so. But, you know, I think when it comes to asking for help, it’s also a sign of strength. I don’t know if you guys would agree.

McGill: Yeah, no, I definitely agree with that because, going through my day-to-day life, I’ve noticed that it actually does take a lot of strength to ask to reach out. I know some of my other friends at Church, they have trouble reaching out and asking for help. It does take some strength. It does take—because you need to make yourself vulnerable, right?

In that situation, you have a problem going on and then reaching out and exposing these problems does make you vulnerable. Some people aren’t comfortable with that, including myself. So yeah, it does take a lot of strength to actually do reach out to and ask for help.

Gretchen: But then there’s a benefit in asking for help. You get that it almost alleviates whatever burden that help that you’re asking for and knowing, you know, the ones that you could ask help from. 

Shannon: I mean, I think you said it best, Gretchen, you know, knowing who to ask for help. But before I wanted to address the big stigma behind it, asking for help doesn’t mean you’re lazy or you’re weak by any means. You know, it’s okay to ask for help, to get help, wouldn’t you agree Brother Solo?

Brother Solo: Oh, yes, Sister Shannon. And to those who are with us in our talk today, you know, it’s okay. It really is okay to ask for help. And the Bible, of course, being as guided by the words of our Almighty God, we should use God’s words to help us understand why it’s okay to ask for help. And we can read what’s written here in Ecclesiastes 4, we’ll read in verses 9 to 10 and also verse 12.

Two are better off than one, because together they can work more effectively. If one of them falls down, the other can help him up. But if someone is alone and falls, it’s just too bad, because there is no one to help him…Two men can resist an attack that would defeat one man alone. A rope made of three cords is hard to break.” 

[Ecclesiastes 4: 9-10, 12 Today’s English Version]

Brother Solo: So hopefully we took note of what the Bible taught us in this particular verse, asking for help is not a sign of being what others might call lazy or weak, but rather it’s very wise because that’s exactly what the Bible teaches.

There are certain situations, aspects of our life that we would need the help, the assistance of someone else. And we know also right Sister Shannon and to those joining us as well. That’s, you know, someone who is ready to assist could very well save us some time and keep us from making mistakes in this life.

Shannon: You know, Brother Solo, I was actually reading this article on CNBC, and I guess I remember this quote saying that “People are hardwired to want to do things on their own and be independent-minded.” And even later down in the article, it said, “We don’t want to be ashamed of our situation or come across as incompetent.”

I mean, for me, I guess I don’t know what I guess maybe triggered or what insinuated me into thinking that I have to be independent all the time. That in doing so, you know, if I asked for help, I would be seen as lazy. I don’t know if you guys have ever thought of that, you know, like maybe it’s a small task or maybe it’s like a big task for me. Sometimes I do feel like I can’t ask for help, even though, you know, this podcast is all about being open to it.

Gretchen: I think it’s the responsibility that comes with it. You know, if we are given a task or there’s something that we want to accomplish for ourselves. It’s almost like a goal that we can attain for ourselves that if we don’t ask for help, it gives us credit of, ‘Oh, I did it for myself.’ But there are times where it might be bigger than what we think it is and that is that call for help.

McGill: Yeah, for sure. And, and like I feel like, yes sorry, I was just going to jump in, but.

Shannon: No, no. Feel free to jump in, McGill. I mean, I want to—do you have a story that you want to share with us, you know, about a time where you did feel like asking for help felt like the wrong thing to do? Was that ever a thing that happened to you?

McGill: There was. And it actually really, really was not good that I didn’t ask for help. I kept it all to myself. I remember.

Shannon: Tell us. Tell us.

McGill: I was in this relationship and you know, I was in a relationship. But it actually wasn’t it wasn’t going so well. We would have these fights going on here and there, even for the littlest things. And in my thought process, I was like, man, we shouldn’t be having these fights. And if I want this to be resolved with her, we can do it ourselves.

And I never bothered to reach out and ask for another opinion. I never reached out and bothered to ask, am I in the wrong? Is she in the wrong? Or maybe we can work together in some sort of way, meet in the middle or something like that. I was completely lost and the reason why I didn’t reach out to my friends or to a minister to anyone is because I was ashamed that I was faltering in the relationship.

I was falling short and I wanted to be like the like an awesome person. I want to be the cool person.

Shannon: Right.

McGill: And being in a healthy relationship, that’s being cool. But in my eyes, seeing that I was in—the relationship wasn’t as strong as it is. 

Shannon: Yeah. 

McGill: I didn’t want to expose that to all my friends and everyone, so that’s why I kept it to myself. But it ended up emotionally destroying me and it just wasn’t, it wasn’t pretty. So definitely, you know, hearing the Bible verse and learning that reaching out is actually a really good thing and asking for help. Yeah, I should have definitely done that back in that time. But yeah, reaching out for help and getting a second opinion or just really understanding my situation from another perspective would have greatly, greatly helped me in that scenario.

Gretchen: I can definitely relate to that. Usually relationships are big changes in our lives, right? 

Shannon: Yeah.

Gretchen: I did find myself—I guess is spiralling a good word too?

Shannon: I mean, spiralling like, you know, your emotions are all over the place, spiralling?

Gretchen: Right. And you kind of just want to, I guess, for lack of a better word, I guess suck it up and just be strong for yourself. Or it’s not affecting me in any way. But then at the end of it all, like, there’s people that surround you. You have a support system that you know, if you need to have your hand held some way somehow for you to get out of a hole of, you know, whatever changes are being made in your life, you kind of have to grab hold of that hand.

Shannon: I’ve recently learned that I can ask for help and it’s not a sign of weakness and it’s not a sign of being shameful or not being able to do anything or any of these, you know, guilty feelings that you might be having, right? I feel like, you know, every time you are in front of someone, you always have to put your best foot forward.

But it’s okay to be vulnerable. And I think that’s what we’re doing today. I know there were times where it made me feel insecure or vulnerable for asking for help. And sometimes it’s like simple things, like not being able to open a jar, you know? I know you guys know that I can pull 300lb on a given day, right? But I can’t open a jar of butter.

So it’s you know, it’s a bit confusing, but it’s something, I guess for me, it’s like humbling myself that asking for help is okay and to do it more often. But I think I think in order to ask for help, there are effective ways to ask for help and to confidently and successfully do so.

And this is from an article on Harvard Business Review titled ‘Five Ways to Get Better at Asking for Help.’ And so, you know, every time I ask myself or every time you ask yourself, how do I ask for help? Here are some of the things that I keep in mind when it comes to asking for help.

So, it goes the first is to earn responses to your request by helping people first. So, asking for help, you know, it’s a two way street. Like you have to be more than willing to give help to to help other people.

The second is, knowing what you want to ask. You can’t go up to someone and be like, “Hey, I need help.” And they’re like, “okay, what do you need help with?” You’re like, “I need help.” And then just runs away. You’re like, I need help, you know, like, be specific with what you want to ask.

When you ask have a goal in mind by using a SMARTly method. Do you know what SMARTly is? Do you know that method?

A well-formulated request is SMART: Specific, Meaningful (why you need it), Action-oriented (ask for something to be done), Real (authentic, not made up), and Time-bound (when you need it) 

[Source: https://hbr.org/2014/12/5-ways-to-get-better-at-asking-for-help] 

McGill: I heard of that before. It’s an acronym, right, Shannon?

Shannon: Yes. Do you know what the acronym is or?

McGill: I think it’s—something measurable. Yeah no, it’s not popping in my brain.

Gretchen: A for effort.

Shannon: You tried and you know what I, I think I can ask Brother Solo. Brother Solo, do you know what the acronym SMART is?

Brother Solo: I think I think our brother had the second one right.

McGill: Was it, oh, was M ‘measurable’?

Brother Solo: Measurable. Yeah.

Shannon: Yeah, it is measurable I suppose. But it’s something that is I guess you can focus on. Something that is accomplishable or it’s not too drastic. You know, if I ask for help, I’m like, can you help me make a car? You’re like,that is not measurable. First of all, I don’t know how to make a car, but, you know, measurable for both you and for the person asking.

And the other tip is, don’t assume you know who and what people know. So, I’m not going to assume that you know how to make a car. You might be driving a car, but I’m going to be like, McGill, can you help me make a car? I saw you driving the other day. You know, I don’t know if you know how to make a car.

McGill: Oh, yeah.

Shannon: So, be clear with what you want and be clear with your intention.

And the last one is, create a culture we’re asking for help is encouraged. So if someone asks for help, you know, sometimes I ask for help for like the simplest things, like, can you help me find toilet paper? Like when I go grocery shopping. Because for me, when I go into, you a big store and I feel overwhelmed and overstimulated, it’s like my brain is everywhere.

I’m like, oh, there’s a T-shirt here. There are spoons over here. And I forget the task at hand. I just need to get toilet paper, you know? So asking for help, even if it’s simple, encourage that, be confident with asking for help. So next time I’ll be like, hey, guys, help me find toilet paper.

Gretchen: We’ll split up and find it.

Shannon: Yeah. But you know, these are just some examples. So that way the person who is being asked can confidently help you. And you can feel confident too that you’re getting the help that you need, you know? So what are, I guess, some common things that you would normally ask for help for?

McGill: Can you reach that thing on top of the shelf for me? Because I’m not that tall to grab it. I’ve received that one a lot.

Shannon: Oh, are you tall?

McGill: I’m not—well for the general population of the ones around me. I’m generally taller than everyone. So, I mean, I’m like, I’m 5’9”, but.

Shannon: Yeah.

McGill: Everyone else is like, 5’5” or something.

Shannon: Oh, you have an advantage.

McGill: I have a little bit of an advantage.

Shannon: What about you, Gretchen?

Gretchen: I, something that I…

Shannon: You ask on a daily or you know, something you ask all the time that is so normalised.

Gretchen: I think like at work, right? If we have a big task day, it’s kind of like, okay. It’s kind of dividing like—or prioritising exactly what’s important. And if I can pawn it off to a coworker, they’re like, ‘Oh yeah, I have time for that. I’ll get back to it.’ So it’s just kind of checkpoints like that and it’s like, okay thank you.

Shannon: That reminded me of the time. This isn’t a, you know, I bought this jar of ghee. Do you know what ghee is? It’s like butter. I mean, ghee is ghee. Basically use it for cooking. Right, Brother Solo? I don’t know if I’m explaining it—it’s a jar of butter. I want to say it’s a jar of butter. And for the life of me, I couldn’t open it for a whole month. And I didn’t ask because I was okay, because, you know, my friends and my family, they’re like, Shannon, you lift a lot, you know, like you can squat so many pounds or you can bench so many pounds or whatever. And I couldn’t for the life of me, I couldn’t open this jar and I tried every night. Genuinely this is true as day. I tried every night to open it because I wanted to use that butter to make steak, but I couldn’t open it. So, like, I would just air fry my steak because I couldn’t open the butter.

And so I finally asked one of my friends. I brought the jar with me to the gym, to open it. I know, I know. Hey, hey. We’re normalising, asking for help. And I was like, guys, I will make you steak if you open this jar. And, you know, the first friend tried it and they’re like, ‘What did you do?’ Because the thing is, I tried all options. I tried to use a rag to open it, tried to put the knife under it to open it. Tried to get like air out.

McGill: And then run it under some warm water.

Shannon: Exactly. I ran it under warm water. I did everything and I couldn’t. So, you know, the jar is obviously going to be tighter than it originally came in and so they were trying to open it for 30 minutes. And I was just so ashamed, I got to say.

McGill: What kind of jar is this?

Gretchen: Shannon-proofed. It’s Shannon-proofed.

McGill: It’s everyone-proofed.

Shannon: Yeah, it’s yeah, yeah. I was really shy about, you know, asking for help for a jar. But after it was all done and they opened it, I was really relieved. I really thanked them for opening a jar. And it’s those small moments of appreciation that you really appreciate that person for being there, for, you know, helping you with the simplest of tasks.

And of course, we’re laughing about it now, but [in] the moment, two people had to try, you know, open this jar that I have been holding off for a month because I couldn’t open it. So, I want to thank my friends for that. But it really did make me feel better when I ask for help. One, because I made really good steak, and two, because it made me realise that asking for help is normal, even if it’s a small task.

McGill: That’s great.

Brother Solo: I was going to ask what happened to that steak?

Shannon: I ate it.

McGill: Was it was a bussing?

Shannon: It was good. It was very, very good. It was delicious. I did make them steak after for opening the jar. That was the condition. I made sure that they knew about it. I guess for me a smart request is a well formulated request, is SMART.

You know, it’s specific. So I wanted them to open the jar. It’s meaningful. Like, why did I need it? Because I want to make steak. It’s action oriented, you know, asking for it to be done. And it’s real. It’s authentic. I’m not making this up like, hey, open this jar and I’m pranking them or I’m fooling them. And, you know, I mean I.

McGill: You actually super glued it the entire time and then you’re recording all their reactions. Ha, you can’t open this jar of butter. Butter. Jar of butter.

Shannon: A jar of butter!

McGill: This jar of butter. Wow say that ten times fast.

Shannon: Yeah and the last one it’s time bound. So for me, I mean I didn’t give them a specific time, but I did bring it with me. So, the time was, it was urgent. One because I’ve been holding off on this jar for a month because I’ve been genuinely,

Gretchen: Was there an expiration date?

Shannon: No, I mean I’m sure there is, but the month was still doable. I hope so. I hope I didn’t use expired butter. But yeah, I mean, I asked for that request, with an intent, with a goal in mind.

So, I guess that’s what I, what I had. I know Brother Solo, you’re listening to this conversation. A jar of butter. A butter of jar. It took you how many months to open it? A month. But, you know, asking for help is genuinely the best thing I could have done for that jar of butter. 

But I guess for me, I guess I wanted to ask what is the first thing we do before we ask for help? And, you know, maybe for more serious matters? Yeah, for a jar of butter, you can ask a friend, but we do have a lot of things that are more meaningful, more personable and more vulnerable. 

I guess I wanted to ask Brother Solo, what should we be doing? What is the first thing we do before we ask help from someone?

Brother Solo: And you know, it’s what you said. You went to someone who you thought that could help you out in that situation, right? And usually that’s what we do. We don’t ask just anyone for help. We ask someone who we think that would be able to provide us that needed help, that exact thing that we are looking for.

But as of course, we are members of the Church Of Christ. Well, let’s ask the Bible. Is there something that we need to remember when we ask for help? Oh, let’s read here in Proverbs 28. Chapter 28, the verse is 7. The Bible again will give us the answer.

Young people who obey the law are wise; those who seek out worthless companions bring shame to their parents.

[Proverbs 28:7 New Living Translation]

Brother Solo: So what we should understand in this verse, there are companions who the Bible calls as worthless. What does that mean then? That it means that there are companions, that that are not worth our time, right? There are those who would not really help us. We have to be very careful then who we approach for help. Because there might be those who give us the wrong kind of help, the wrong kind of advice.

Yes, we’re asking for help from someone, but if we ask the wrong person, we might get the wrong help. That’s why we as members of the Church Of Christ, if we seek advice or help from fellow Church members, members who give importance to the laws and commandments of our Almighty God as well, well then we can be certain that we will receive counsel or advice that is wise, that will really be for our benefit, that will really help us in whatever we are facing in this life.

Shannon: Brother Solo something that came up in my mind when you were reading that verse is maybe, I don’t know, maybe this is a question that I want answered. I don’t know what it is, but maybe the reason why we feel ashamed to ask for help was because we had those types of companionship or friendships that weren’t beneficial for us.

Is that I mean, am I understanding that correctly? Because, you know, there are times when I’m ashamed to ask for help because I feel like I’ll be looked down upon instead of receiving that right kind of help.

Brother Solo: Right. And then and, you know, it’s it also plays into our our fear, right? Our thinking that we don’t want to seem weak to people, right? Well, just like what is reminded of us here is that, well, we should make sure that the ones we are going to and asking for help, they are the ones who obey or who follow the commandments of our mighty to God. That will certainly make sure that we are led to the correct answer.

Shannon: You know, I was just thinking about how I would ask you guys to open that jar for me any time, and not feel ashamed. Because we’ve had this conversation, you know, me opening myself up to you guys about, things that make me feel vulnerable or insecure and asking for help and asking for guidance. You know, I know that I can always ask for that help, but even though I am asking toward, you know, asking and being mindful about who I’m asking, I guess I wanted to ask Brother Solo who should we really be asking help from and why? I mean, you said to be very specific, you know, be very intentional with who we ask our help from, like who we should get our help from.

Brother Solo: And that’s a very good question, right? Yeah we can, if we need help in one thing, we know who from our circle of friends maybe right?

Shannon: Right.

Brother Solo: There’s one that we run to for, let’s say, financial advice. We there’s one we run to for life advice, right? But who is the best one that we should run to first and foremost?

Again, let’s allow the Bible to tell us the answer here in the Book of Psalms. In Psalms 73, verses 23, 24, and we’ll also read verse 26.

Yet I always stay close to you, and you hold me by the hand. You guide me with your instruction and at the end you will receive me with honor. My mind and my body may grow weak, but God is my strength; he is all I ever need.

[Psalms 73:23-24, 26, Today’s English Version]

Brother Solo:So who is it that we should go to? First and foremost, it’s none other than our Almighty God. Just like the servant of the Lord God said, God is my strength and He is all I ever need. You know, God is Almighty. God is full of love and He chose us to be His, His children in these last days.

So He really does care for us. That’s why, you know, whatever problem we may be facing in this life, yes, we can go to our friends, our loved ones for help and for advice. But the best, the best and the first thing that we should do is run to our Almighty God and ask Him for the strength that we need in this life.

Shannon: You know, Brother Solo you put it best asking for help from Him. And I think all of us can really take that advice and run with it, because it’s the best kind of advice. And I want to thank you for joining us here today. And I know our time here on Heart And Soul is coming to a close, but thank you for leaving us feeling uplifted and inspired.

And, you know, I think that’s what’s great about being a Church Of Christ member. We can ask help from the one who knows exactly what we need. And to have God in my life is the biggest help I can get. Brother Solo and everyone joining us, Gretchen and McGill here today. I know that we’ll have to cut our episode short and save the rest of our awesome conversations for the next episode. 

But you know, I want to say thank you for helping me in this episode, for letting me be vulnerable in the most fun and sincere way possible. So, thank you again to all of the hosts and Brothers Solo for joining me today. And I know I needed help asking. I really did. I needed help asking for you guys to be here because I wouldn’t have ever wanted it in any other way.

So feel free to check out our sources by visiting incmedia.org/heartandsoul and thank you again for listening to INC Heart And Soul where we have real conversations with people around the world. Bye!

McGill: Bye everyone, thanks for listening!

Gretchen: Bye! 

Brother Solo: Bye everyone! 

4 Things You Need to Build Healthy Habits

Brother Michael: For me, this is inspiration. And that is a really good habit that every member of the Church Of Christ should really build on. 

Shannon Santamaria: You’re just you’re just dropping all the best advice right now. I guess, you know, when it comes to creating healthy habits, it’s supposed to benefit us and I guess what better way for something to benefit us when it’s spiritual.

[Show Open]

Shannon: You’re listening to Heart And Soul, a podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo Church of Christ. I’m one of your hosts, Shannon Santamaria, and it’s here where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best version of themselves. This is Heart And Soul.

[Show Open]

Shannon: Hey everyone! It’s Shannon here, and we’re opening up the new season with a series concerning self-care. And to start it off we wanted to talk about building healthy habits. In fact, I have a surprise for our listeners. This new season also comes with new hosts! And a few of the new hosts with me today are coming from across America. Camille Peralta who’s from New Jersey all the way on the east coast and Gretchen Asuncion who’s from Minnesota in the Northern Midwest and I’m here in California. These two are dear friends of mine and I’ve had so many wholesome conversations with them. I figured why not have them share their stories with you guys on Heart and Soul. 

So I’m so excited because this is your first episode on Heart and Soul, and you guys are one of the main hosts now! How do you guys feel?

Gretchen Asuncion: Excited! 

Camille Peralta: Yeah.

Gretchen: Excited to be here! 

Camille: Ecstatic. Can’t wait to have these meaningful conversations with you guys.

Shannon: And, you know, I guess I’m building that habit with you guys to have these, you know, meaningful conversations here on Heart and Soul. So, I actually wanted to also introduce someone else who is with us, and that’s a minister of the gospel, Brother Michael Guerrero. Hello! How are you?

Brother Michael: Hello, everyone! I’m doing well.

Shannon: You know, when it comes to building healthy habits, there are a lot of areas to explore, a lot of things to look into, and I think it’s a lot to take in. But I think the best way to kick start the episode is asking what the Bible says. I want to get right into it because I know that these conversations are always spiritually guided, right Brother Michael? 

Brother Michael: That is true. And so the verse that I’m going to read is 1 Thessalonians, chapter 5, verse 23, which states:

“May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.” 

[2 Thessalonians 5:23 New Revised Standard Version] 

Shannon: So, Brother, I guess, what I wanted to ask is that, you know, when it comes to this verse, is that a certain mindset that we should go into when it comes to self-care? 

Brother Michael: Yes. You know, in fact, when it comes to what is mentioned in this verse, it isn’t just our physical body that is being mentioned that we should take care of. Because when we talk about self-care, it can mean a lot of things. Building healthy habits can also be a lot of things, or mean different things to different people. And in this verse, it talks about our spirit, our soul, and our body, right? So, these are all things that we should, especially as members of the Church Of Christ, always think about and take care of, because we use all of these things in our service to God.

Shannon: You know, I think I really wanted to open up this episode with new hosts and a verse right off the bat, because this is kind of… this is going to guide us. I mean, you know, I often ask myself, is building this specific habit, you know, biblical or is it on the right path when it comes to serving God? I don’t know if you guys have ever asked yourself that? 

Gretchen: Yeah, it does come to mind just to make sure that you are aligned with, you know, our Almighty God and our Lord Jesus Christ and just being able to be centered… almost.

Shannon: Right.

Camille: I agree. And when I listen to this verse that our spirit and soul and body be kept sound, I think about all the different aspects, the different kinds of health that we maintain, like not only our physical but also our spiritual. I think all of that ties in together. You know, being able to establish security and stability in your life in all the different aspects. Right? And I feel like one of the ways that I can do that, you know, being a servant of God, keeping myself healthy, exercising and eating the right foods, being able to sustain myself so that I can all the more be of service to God and also my duties in the Church.

Shannon: I know, Camille and Gretchen and even Brother Mike, before we hopped on to this podcast, we were talking a little bit about what we’ve been building. At least building good habits or building healthy habits. The things that we’ve been working on on the side. I guess, for me, I want to start off, you know, one of the healthy habits that I built was this is interesting. I guess compartmentalizing, like, my bag. Like, there’s a place for everything in my bag. And like, instead of just throwing things in my bag, I make sure that every part of my bag has a space or it’s properly organized. I feel like I’m more at ease when it comes to trying to like, find my wallet or find something that I need in my bag.

Camille: I love that.

Gretchen: I do. I should probably take that. I might take that, Shannon from you.

Shannon: I wanted to ask you, what were some of yours, what were some of your big habits that you were building? I know that we’ve been talking about this topic way before we were going to start recording this episode.

Gretchen: Definitely making time for creativity, because sometimes you need to find an outlet to let your creative mind flow. So, I really dived into paper crafts and even journaling too. So, that was… that really fueled my creative heart.

Camille: Well, first of all, Gretchen, I love that you’re finding new ways to dive into your creativity and trying to make that a habit. That’s always important to be able to, you know, incorporate play into your lifestyle and have fun. A habit that I’ve been building is at the end of a work day, since it is an office sit down kind of job, it’s very sedentary. So, what I try to do is incorporate some light exercises or stretches. While the sun goes down, I feel the warmth of my skin. It’s just a really good regimen to get yourself out of the working mindset and into like a more relaxing mindset. So, that’s a habit that I’m trying to build. And, and I’ve been really enjoying it! Trying to take care of my body one day at a time.

Shannon: So, I was trying to figure out why I never continue building the habit. Like, I’m on and I’m off. Like, sometimes I’m committed to working out and sometimes I’m not. And every time I try to start a new habit, I’m just not committed to it, or, you know, I’m not consistent with it. 

HABIT 1: Stacking habits.

Brother Michael: I feel that by doing that, you build a routine, right? That’s what that is.

Shannon: Yes, almost. I mean, it’s pretty hard to build a routine if we’re, like, super hectic.

Brother Michael: But, like you said, when you’re stacking something, you make your bed and then your next thing, whatever it’s going to be, is something that you’re going to do again the next day or whatever. So… 

Shannon: You know, I think I did build the habit of fixing my bed and then lying back down in it.

Brother Michael: Hmm. Ok. 

Shannon: I mean, I don’t think that’s a good habit. So… 

Gretchen: Then maybe the next habit is to not lay back down.

Shannon: Break the habit.

Gretchen: Right!

Shannon: Yeah! But, I guess, what are some… well, how… maybe… how would you go about, you know, stacking habits or, you know, putting two habits together?

Gretchen: I think by starting your day off, right? Kind of going back to what Camille was talking about how she wakes up in the morning and does some light exercise in which like for me maybe I should start stretching in the morning after waking up and then after stretching, you know, start making my bed! I think small stuff like that, I mean, maybe dedicate your first 20 minutes to just that and then go on with your day.

Shannon: Yeah, I think so too.

Brother Michael: Have you guys planned your day? Like, have you just sat down and said, this is what I’m going to do today? Because I feel like… well, for me, I write things down in what I want to do and then I check them off as I do them. So one, I already have a plan of what I need to do or need to get done, right? And then things that I might want to do if I have time. But what’s nice is, you know, in my planner, I use time blocks. So this amount of time is just for this… then, you know, and so on and so forth. And for me, it helps me be productive because… and it’s also a good way if, you know, you’re looking to accomplish something, because when you write that stuff down and then you get to mark it off or check it off that you accomplished it, like what Sister Shannon said earlier, you know, it’s just something nice about making your bed and having a [fixed] bed in the morning. [Laughter] It’s a nice feeling when, you know, you can check things off, little things that you need to do during the day. And you, you know, you’ve accomplished something. And it’s a good thing to look at at the end of day. Like, look at all the things I did today, even if they’re all small.

Shannon: No, I think I for the most part, I generalize my day. Like, I wake up and I’m like, okay, I want to work… I want to make sure I get a workout in or, you know, I want to make sure I get to work on time. I think that’s how I go about my day? I don’t really have a set plan and I don’t, like, block it out. I kind of recall that part of the article, because what the article had said is that, you know, the second and third is to start small. 

HABIT 2: Start Small and Be Realisitic

HABIT 3: Stay Consistent

So the tips that it was giving me was like just start small and think about all the options and tasks it takes to complete it. So, I think that goes into planning? 

Gretchen: Planning is good. I mean, does anyone else use a planner? [Laughs] 

Camille: I would say that my method is sort of similar to Brother Michael and that I do block out my day. From work to exercise to any, you know, extracurricular meetings and the little things I kind of set aside as, like, a written on paper to-do list, and I cross them out as I go along. It’s such a satisfying feeling to be able to focus on one thing. Once you get it done, just cross it out, you don’t have to worry about it later.

Shannon: Yeah!

Brother Michael: You can have that is… you don’t have to think about it, you know, like, what am I supposed to be doing? Oh, I wrote it down. So, okay, I’ll go, you know, take care of that. And then I get to check it off and it’s just nice to be organized, I guess.

Gretchen: Makes me feel accomplished after. Yeah.

Camille: Yes.

Shannon: And I think that, maybe, that’s like a key motivator. A key motivator when it comes to staying consistent. Because it also said that, I guess, when it comes to picking a habit or choosing a habit that we want to instill, it’s like, to be specific and to choose a realistic cue. 

HABIT 4: Ask God For Help

So, I mean, you know, like, planning or adding it into your calendar, I feel like that’s pretty realistic.

Camille: Mm-hmm. But one thing that I guess doesn’t make sense to add to my calendar is I want to be able to sleep earlier. I don’t think that’s something that people put on the calendar. Like, I have a meeting with my bed. I’m going to sleep at 11 p.m..

Gretchen: You know, maybe that’s what it needs to be! 

Camille: Oh! 

Shannon: Maybe you should add it! 

[Laughter] 

Shannon: I mean, maybe if, like, if you have it on the calendar, like bed, like make sure you leave.

Camille: Meeting with: myself; Location: bed; Description: time to sleep. 

Shannon: I mean, if I, if you can plan going out to lunch with a friend, you can plan going to bed by yourself.

Camille: Oh, true. But you know what? In the discussion of stacking habits, I think something that would help me to commit to going to bed on time would be to… let’s see, what’s something I can do? Oh! I can do a cool downtime and just like not have any access to any screens or blue light so that I can really, my body can really cool down and my eyes won’t get, you know, distracted by all the, the different, like, things on social media and YouTube. I can truly just like, shut off and shut down for the day.

Gretchen: Yeah, I’ve done that habit where I was just… it was like, okay, if I’m going to try to sleep early tonight, I need to… at least an hour before I plan to sleep, I shut everything off.

Camille: You’ve got to wind down!

Gretchen: Exactly.

Shannon: You know, I think that, I think all of us can agree, like, we’re on and off at some habits that we’re trying to instill. Like sleeping early or stacking habits. But I wanted to mention this:

On average, it takes more than two months before a new behavior becomes automatic. 

[Source: https://jamesclear.com/new-habit] 

Shannon: At least that’s what I was reading on jamesclear.com when he was talking about new habits.

Camille: Oh, it’s no wonder why I’m always, like, giving up on the attempt of habits that I try to take on!  So, like, how… How can we keep it going for two months, Shannon?

Shannon: I don’t know! I mean, and it’s so hard to stay consistent. Like, I feel like it’s really long of [a] continuous new habit. Like regardless of how hectic your schedule is, it’s really long.

Gretchen: I mean, we can all hold each other accountable, right? If we’re trying to build a new habit, it’s like, hey, Camille did you set your bed… not bedtime [laughs], but I guess your “date with your bed” you know? [Laughter] Like, Brother Michael, did you check it off your list? 

Brother Michael: Yeah. 

Gretchen: With the workout equipment that you had.

Camille: Gretchen, did you block out time for your creativity?

Gretchen: Right! So, I think accountability will help this to become automatic, right?

Brother Michael: And I think for the planner stuff or the like a calendar is important because I think for most people you have to see it, right? Like if you see that you didn’t accomplish it, it kind of, kind of bothers [you] a little bit, right? You’re like aw man, why didn’t I accomplish that today? 

Shannon: Yeah, it does. It makes me feel some type of way.

Brother Michael: Yeah. So, I think, visually, you need to have something there to help you.

Shannon: I think, Brother Mike, when I don’t commit to a new habit or a habit that I’m really trying to, trying hard to, to really stay consistent with, it’s like I’m heartbroken with myself. Like I let my own self down… almost. But I want… I guess I wanted to ask, you know, how do we move past that? Because it isn’t, it isn’t a great feeling to, you know, have that disappointment of trying and trying and trying, what advice would you give to stay consistent regardless of that inconsistency? Does that even make sense?

Brother Michael: Yeah. I mean, people don’t like the feeling of failure, right? I don’t think anybody wants to fail at anything that they’re trying to accomplish. But, of course, you know, failure is not the end of the world. It doesn’t mean that if we aren’t able to accomplish something, that we should stop trying, right? So actually, there’s another verse that I’d like to read and this is in 1 Timothy, chapter 4, verse 8: 

Physical exercise has some value, but spiritual exercise is valuable in every way, because it promises life both for the present and for the future. 

[1 Timothy 4:8 Today’s English Version] 

Brother Michael: So, with this verse, of course, I know Sister Shannon that, you know, you’re really into exercise and things like that. And I think you had mentioned that you just recently competed, right? 

Shannon: Yeah

Brother Michael: In like a… what do they call it? A meet? 

Shannon: Yes. Like, a competition. 

[Laughter] 

Brother Michael: Okay. Competition. And you did well, right? 

Shannon: Yeah.

Brother Michael: What place did you get? 

Shannon: F-first. I mean, we don’t have to mention that!

Gretchen: Congrats! 

Camille: Wow! Congratulations, Shannon! 

Shannon: Pull 300 pounds on a given day.

Gretchen: Like, it’s nothing. 

Camille: Just 300 pounds. 

Gretchen: Like, no big deal. 

Camille: You’re just strong or whatever. 

Shannon: No, no, no. I mean, I guess. I guess, I know what you’re trying to get at, Brother Michael. Like, there were days where I was having a really bad training day, right? It was just really bad, but I stayed consistent with it.

Brother Michael: You just had to keep going. And again, you know, when it comes to us being members of the Church, when you fail and maybe you get sad because you weren’t able to accomplish something. Like I mentioned earlier, there’s tomorrow, you know, it should be, actually more motivation for you to continue, like what the Bible says, right? This stuff is all important. The things that we do in life, you know, they bring us joy and… and they help us, you know, in our life. But of course, the things that would help us the most, even coping with failure, for an example, is, you know, our service to God. Our spiritual mindset. And that’s why the Bible is very true when it says, “spiritual exercise is valuable in every way,” and it’s not just for now, the Bible says, even “for the future.”

Shannon: So, spiritual exercise, I guess, like, consistently sharing my faith. Because sometimes I’m scared to share my faith. I don’t know. Like, I get shy, I’m not really scared, but I get very shy when it comes to sharing my faith because I’m like, oh I don’t want to get rejected, but I want to make it a habit to be confident regardless of if I get a no from them, you know?

Brother Michael: And I guess maybe that’s what you can do is just think about it like that. The worst they can say is no. And if we understand… if we understand that, for example, sharing our faith, like what you mentioned, is part of our spiritual exercise, and you’re a great example for this because we know that you do physical exercise, right? If it’s important for you to progress by consistently lifting, consistently progressing, as far as weight goes, then it’s the same thing with the spiritual side, for example, sharing our faith. Yes, the first time it might not be easy for you, but the more you do it, the easier it gets, right? So that’s why the Bible likens it, like, exercise, right? It’s… it’s a progression. But to get to the point that you want to get to, you’ve got to start somewhere. So that first invitation, maybe you might have fear, but remember that we have the true faith, so that should remove some of the fear already! Because what I’m doing, what I’m sharing with you is the truth. And some… some of the youth that I talk to, when it comes to sharing our faith, I always tell them, if they’re scared, start where you go a lot. Like, for example, here in California, especially here in the Bay Area, man everybody drinks boba. So I tell the youth, when you get like for example, our INC Media cards, and some of those under my care, in my locale, they would do this. They go to a boba shop and in the tip jar they would leave an INC Media card.

Gretchen: Oh, that’s awesome.

Shannon: That is really sweet. 

Brother Michael: Yeah.

Shannon: I guess, Brother Michael. I mean, because I’m a convert, I’m just realizing a couple of things right now in our discussion or just the conversations that we’re having. I feel like attending worship service is really instilling good habits. Like before I, you know, when I, when I wasn’t a member before because I’m a convert, I wasn’t always diligently praying. But there are habits that we do and that we know to confidently do which is, I guess, something that… to reflect on, especially when it comes to creating new habits or sticking to good habits that we want to instill.

Brother Michael: Yeah. And you know, for, you know, going back to sharing your faith, especially since you were not born in the Church, you’re a convert, I like to remind people who are converts, think about when you weren’t a member, right? Think about what life was like without God. And then now think about it. Now that you’re a member and that God is with you.

Now think about all of the people that you know that don’t know what it’s like to have God in their life. That kind of motivation should make everybody go out, I mean, run out and just share their faith. You know, it’s like, I know what it’s like not to have God in the past. And now that I do, I cannot help but share this feeling with you that I, you know, for me, this is inspiration. And that is a really good habit that every member of the Church Of Christ should really build on. 

Shannon: Yeah. I mean, you’re just you’re just dropping all the best advice right now. [Laughter] And I’m really appreciating the advice it’s given, you know, because, I guess, you know, when it comes to creating healthy habits, it’s supposed to benefit us and I guess what better way for something to benefit us when it’s spiritual and it’s for our faith? I guess I wanted to ask, Brother Michael, you know, is creating healthy habits, does that help our faith? I mean, we talked about it in the sense of, you know, sharing our faith, but it could be personal things, too.

Brother Michael: We can read another verse. Proverbs 4, verses 20 to 23. This is what it says: 

Son, pay attention to what I say. Listen to my words. Never let them get away from you. Remember them and keep them in your heart. They will give life and health to anyone who understands them. Be careful how you think; your life is shaped by your thoughts.

[Proverbs 4:20-23 Today’s English Version] 

Brother Michael: So, in these verses… there’s a lot of good things that we can take from these verses… that we just read. First, you know, God is telling us to listen to what He’s telling us. He said, “listen to my words.” And not only did He say, “listen…” but He said, “Never let them get away from you.” Right?

So, that it…just that in itself, as a… as a member of the Church Of Christ, for anyone who’s trying to build healthy habits or do better, especially in their service before God, this is something that is super important. So, of course, we hear the words of God in the worship service. That’s like, number one, it’s the basis, right? The basis of our faith are the words of God written in the Bible. We receive that during the worship service. Super important, not just to be there, but be there physically, be there mentally, be there spiritually. And everything that we take from that worship service, the Bible says, “keep them in your heart.” Meaning, we need to put these things into practice, right? And when it comes to obeying, because, maybe, there are some who… they haven’t been in this habit of worshiping all the time or they haven’t been in the habit of following all of the commandments of God. There’s always a blessing attached. Always a blessing attached to God’s commandments. So, when God says listen to His words, when He says, don’t let them get away from you, there’s always a blessing. 

The blessing is, He said, “They will give life and health to anyone who understands them.” [so]  “Be careful how you think…” And that’s something that’s very important in today’s world, especially with the youth, right? “Be careful how you think…” There’s so many people out there who are trying to influence us. They’re trying to make us do things that aren’t in line with our faith, our beliefs. And that’s something we have to be very careful about because the Bible says, “your life is shaped by your thoughts.” So, those things we really have to, not only be careful with, but build a good habit of following and obeying the commandments of God.

Shannon: You know, I guess, when it comes to building good habits, I’m going to make sure that I’m going to stay on… Heart and Soul and have these really, really awesome and heartwarming conversations. I’m learning things today! Then I got to find a… I’ve got to make sure that my habits are in line with God’s teachings, too.

Brother Michael: And that’s kind of what we were talking about in the very beginning, I think, right? When it comes to body, soul, right? Spirit, everything, everything that we do, like what we mentioned earlier, even building good habits when it comes to making our bed or whatever it is that we decide is a good habit. [Laughter] All of those things, right? 

Shannon: Hey, that’s a real habit.

Brother Michael: I’m not saying it’s not a good habit to have, but everything we do should, you know, make us a better servants… before God. 

Shannon: You know, we… we can talk on and on and on about building good habits, building healthy habits. But, you know, we’ve got to save it for the next podcast. So, thank you for the wonderful advice, Brother Michael Guerrero. And thank you, Camille and Gretchen, for joining today! 

Gretchen: Thank you! 

Camille: Thank you! 

Shannon: You have the cutest voice. “Thank you!” [Laughter] 

So, when I get off this podcast, I’m going to start or at least try to build one healthy habit at a time, and I’ll let you guys know next time if I was successful or not, but hopefully successful because as long as it’s in line with God’s teachings, I think I can build those good habits. And make sure, to everyone tuning in, if you want to check out our sources, feel free to visit incmedia.org and it’ll be at the bottom of our podcast so you can go and check those out. 

In fact, I guess one thing that I wanted for you guys to do is build the habit of tuning in to INC Heart and Soul. Again, thank you for listening to INC Heart and Soul, where we have real conversations with friends who are helping each other reach the best version of themselves. Bye! Bye, guys! 

Gretchen: Bye!

Camille: Bye!

Brother Michael: By everyone, take care. 

Martin Zerrudo: Hey everyone, we’re back with a REWIND episode. And this conversation is a real treat because I’m joined by our Former Co-Host, Lois Paula, and Brother Jojo Bayani, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. We asked Brother Jojo all sorts of questions about navigating our friendships. You know, this episode was recorded a few years back, but there’s a lot of useful advice here—I definitely learned a lot from this conversation—and of course, got some spiritual guidance on how to be a good friend, and the kind of friendships that we should have in our life. Here’s that conversation.

[Music]

Martin Zerrudo: Question number one: when it comes to courting, do we put guys before our potential one that we’re going to go for? Or do we put our girls before the one that we’re going to go for? Krystal, what are your thoughts? If you were going to go for somebody and you knew that a friend of yours had feelings for them, is that ok? How do you navigate that situation?

Krystal Quarles: I would personally talk to my friend and ask ‘Hey, is this ok?’ But I’ve been on the other side and I’ve seen some of my friends really, really happy and that’s ok too. That’s totally fine.

Lois: I mean, Martin and Lenner, we asked about like, you know I’m talking about you’re in a relationship and your friends need you. Your boys need you, or you want to have a guys’ night…

Martin: Oh, man. I’ve had this conversation with Erica many times, where it’s just like, for me, the time that I’ve devoted to my friends, that’s time for them. And then the time that I’ve devoted to you, as my girlfriend, that’s time for you. And I don’t want to mix and match and make the other person or make you feel like that time is… is negotiable, you know? If there has to be adjustments, then that’s fine, you have to adapt. But if I’ve given this time to Erica, then that’s my time with her. Like, I’m going to give you 110% of my attention. But then if it’s a guy’s night and we needed to chill, then it’s like, that’s my time with them. Like, they also deserve my 110% affection as my friends and attention as well. I don’t know Lenner, am I crazy?

Lenner Sese: No, no. Not crazy at all. At the same time, on my part, I’m understanding as well. Out of our group of friends I’m the only single guy. So I know you guys have obligations to your girlfriends.

Lois: Is there anything, any guidance in the Bible about who or what we should choose over what? If we are wrong in choosing one or the other? Is there anything — any guidance that you can give unto us, so that we can make the right decisions if we are presented with that challenge in the future?

Brother Jojo Bayani: Sure, Sister LP. As we mentioned in part one, I’ll use the same verse. It’s 1 Corinthians 15:33 of the Expanded version of the Bible, it’s:

Do not be ·fooled [deceived; misled]: “Bad·friends [company] will ruin good ·habits [or character; morals;
[1 Corinthians 15:33 Expanded Bible]

Brother Jojo: I think the one of the best and one of the main guidelines that we should have in choosing our friends is to make sure that kind of friendship is based on how we should be living our lives, in accordance to the teachings of God. And how do you know when one is either a bad friend or a good friend? Well, the Bible says bad friends will indeed ruin good character, morals, [and] good habits. And we can translate – simply translate – habits or character or morals to what we’ve learned. Let that be our measurement stick in basing the kind of friendships that we have with members of the Church Of Christ and even those who are not members of the Church Of Christ.

I remember when I was younger I had wonderful friends who didn’t share the same beliefs. They were not in the same religion, not in the Church Of Christ. But I knew they were good friends because they respected my beliefs. And they didn’t try to steer me in the wrong direction.

Martin: It really just boils down to that, that verse. If they’re good friends, then they’re not going to make you do bad things. And if they’re bad friends, then you probably shouldn’t be friends with them.

Lois: So, what if we have a good friend – what if we love them and they have great intentions – we also have been blessed with a relationship in our lives, we have a great boyfriend or girlfriend, but they don’t get along. Or there’s something of one party who doesn’t like something of the other party.

Martin: Yeah. Sometimes your friends don’t like the one you’re with.

Lois: Or sometimes the one you’re with don’t like your friends.

Martin: What should we do?

Brother Jojo: Colossians 3:12, perhaps, Brother Martin, would give us an insight with regard to trying to [answer]. That’s a difficult question to answer, but Colossians 3:12 of the Living Bible goes like this, the first part goes like this:

Since you have been chosen by God …
[Colossians 3:12 Living Bible]

Brother Jojo: That’s our faith. We are the chosen people of God in these last days.

Since you have been chosen by God who has given you this new kind of life, and because of his deep love and concern for you, …
[Colossians 3:12 Living Bible]

Brother Jojo: Here we go…

… you should practice tenderhearted mercy and kindness to others.
[Colossians 3:12 Living Bible]

Brother Jojo: You know what? Based on – I’ve been married nearly 25 years now, brethren, so it’s been a while since I’ve dated – but as far as I can remember, when it comes to love, you’re pretty much going to love who you want to love. It doesn’t matter what your friend or your best friend says.

I believe we have to keep in mind that if we have a true friend, if we have a best friend, and if they are practicing what the Bible says – being tender hearted, being merciful, being kind – they won’t mislead us based on what they see. Because sometimes when we’re in love, we can’t really see. Reality is distorted pretty much, you know?  The heart is in control and the brain goes nuts sometimes, when we’re in love. But, if you have a true friend, and you’ve had that friend for years and years, and you’ve had a wonderful experience with that friend, knowing that he or she has been there and has consistently given you good advice, of course, based on our teachings, then, when you’re in love, I think you should still listen to that friend. Because that friend, if that friend really cares about you, and that friend says something like, “well, you know, this and that,” I think, in as much as we’re in love, at the same time, I think we should be open to those advice that that our friends – our true friends – are giving us because they are our friends. This is the way that they manifest their kindness. This is how they practice their mercy by trying to tell us, based on the commandments of God, the advice that we should be receiving at that given point. 

I’ve had experiences like that in the past where a good buddy says, “Well, I don’t think she’s the right person for you.” And, you know. I’m just speaking from experience. When you’re in love, you are in love. You know, even if that’s your best friend, you know, you’ll probably say something like, “You don’t know what you’re talking about.”

Martin: Yeah. Or, “That’s not what I want to hear.”

Brother Jojo: “This is the perfect woman for me,” you know? But then, in the end, when the relationship doesn’t go as you expect and you go back to your buddy and you say, “You know, thank you. Thank you for that advice that you gave me… a year ago.”

Martin: Yeah.

Brother Jojo: You know, they turn out to be right, especially if they are true friends basing their advice when it comes to our teachings.

Martin: Thank you, Brother Jojo. Like, that’s not always something that people want to hear. They want to hear, “Well, the Bible said, you know, 1 Corinthians, love, love, love. And this is the one who I think is for me, so if God blessed me with this person, then I’m going all the way! And if you don’t support it, then you don’t support the love that God gave me!” But, like you said, it’s not always cut and dry like that. Like, sometimes you do have the rose-colored glasses on and we don’t see what’s in front of us, but our friends do. And the reminder for us to have tender hearts, that they care about us, they just want us to do well in relationships. I think that’s so important.

Why do you think sometimes, Brother Jojo, that that’s hard to accept? Or that there’s some resentment? Like, oh, you’re just jealous of what we have, or you don’t understand what we have. Why do you think sometimes we have that feeling, though?

Brother Jojo: Throughout my life, leading [up] to being married to Sister Vernie, prior to that, I had three serious relationships. And for relationship number one, I thought that she was the one. Relationship number two, I thought that she was the one, again. And when it came to relationship number three, when we were actually already engaged to be married, I absolutely thought that she was the one, but it turned out that she wasn’t. It’s just a difficult thing when you’re in love.

As a minister, I’d like to admit that, learning from my past experiences, when you’re in love with someone, it really can – if you’re not careful –  take over just about every aspect of your life. Because when you’re in love, you’re in love! I mean, with probably the exception of religion, there comes a time when you’re deeply, deeply, madly in love, that it just takes over your whole life. And, you know, sometimes we can be blinded by that love, and in no longer believing what’s true, or in no longer accepting what would be right or appropriate or applicable for us because we’re head over heels in love with that human being.

That’s why it’s good to have friends that are grounded by the truth. You know, if you have solid members of the Church Of Christ who are your friends and who have been there for you for years and years, I think you should really listen to them when you’re in the process of courting because they can be God’s instruments, too, in leading you. Fortunately for me, relationship number four, that was Ka Vernie. Finally!

Lois Paula: Winner, winner!

Brother Jojo: Finally, she was the right one.

Martin: Yes.

Brother Jojo: It’s been 25 wonderful years living with this person.

Lois Paula: Yay, congratulations!

Martin: Wow…

Lois Paula: And on the other side of that – Brother Jojo, Krystal, Lenner, Martin – you know, when you are married, it changes a little bit because you are now, you know, promising your loyalty to this other person, and then you have all these outside influences, you have these friends of yours or situations in your life where you might not agree with your spouse. And so, at what point then do you say, “no, I’ll choose my friends. My friends are guided, you know, by God, and they’re instruments of God that they’re teaching me and bringing light to something that I’m not seeing.” When my spouse here is the one saying this. Do you think that there is a difference in that? Do you think that it now changes?

Personally, in my experience, it has changed. And now, you know, no matter if something comes up, if a friend has an opinion, you know, that’s different from my spouse’s, ultimately, as the wife, I listen to Brother Glenn, and I trust that he’s guided to be the one making the right decisions for us, and so I follow. Do you think it changes it all? Brother Jojo, am I wrong in that?

Brother Jojo: No. No. Your allegiance, our allegiance and our ultimate trust and confidence has to change, Sister LP. And, God willing, for Brother Martin, it’ll be Sister Erica for you.

Martin: Yes!

Brother Jojo: And I know Sister Erica, so take care of her, bro!

Martin: Yes. You are the friend that I will listen to. I will listen to you, for sure.

Brother Jojo: But anyway, I’d like to go to Ephesians, chapter 5, verse 23, of the new King James version for the answer, it says:

For the husband is the head of the wife, as also Christ is the head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body.
[Ephesians 5:23 New King James Version]

Brother Jojo: And in verse 25, it says:

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave himself for her,
[Ephesians 5:25 New King James Version]

Brother Jojo: So then, when we do get married, I don’t care if there is a best friend out there, eventually as we grow in love and in our commitment and in our relationship with our spouse, the spouse – ideally and spiritually, based on these verses that we just read – should become the – aside from God, of course – should become our best friend in life because Christ and His relationship to His Church was compared to the relationship of a husband to his wife. Christ gave His life for the Church. That’s how much He loved the Church. And what Apostle Paul is saying here is, well, wait a minute, that’s how much love we should also have for our spouse.

So, when we do get married, Sister LP, and for everyone else and for all of those listening to this podcast, once we do get married, then we have to have that shift or transition in allowing our spouse to become our best friend and our best guide and advisor when it comes to, you know, our life. Again, you know, first and foremost is God and His Son, of course. But then, if you happen to be a member of the Church and you have a faithful husband or a faithful wife, let her and let him be your best friend from that time on.

Martin: So, it’s within our culture, but I think this is an issue. I mean, it’s an issue in a sense that it’s on I think on the minds and hearts of brothers and of guys more so than than sisters. And that’s we’re not supposed to court outside the Church. And so, we do come across, and we will come across the situation like Brother Lenner and I did, where we end up having to go for and get to know sisters who have been with other brothers that we may or may not be really close friends with. Should we still be bothered by that? Like, it’s 2016, the Scripture has been the same since the beginning. Should brothers just man up and let it go? Like that, just accept it. This is the teaching. We shouldn’t make it an issue. Or is there a more tender way of navigating that courting landscape so that we’re not offending brothers? You know? How do, how do we…

Lois Paula: Krystal was saying, it doesn’t only happen to brothers or to guys.

Martin: Yeah, well, for sure. I mean, it happens to sisters, but you know, guys get territorial about it.

Lois Paula: Oh, I promise, girls do too. But it’s not a territorial thing. It’s… it becomes almost like this second guessing of themselves, this insecurity, where it’s like, well, how do I compare to this girl or what does she have that I don’t have?

Martin: See? So, it’s stressful, Brother Jojo. It’s stressful because we’re always comparing and our primal instincts as guys, I guess, are trying to stake out territory and who is first and who’s second and, you know? [What] do we make of that landscape?

Brother Jojo: WOW.

Lois Paula: Sorry, Brother Jojo [laughs]

Brother Jojo: I think the best way to answer that question, Brother Martin and Sister LP, is as long as you break it off cleanly, in a very Christian way… If, you know, for example, you went out, and you got to know each other, and after six months or after a year it just, you’re just not… compatible – if we can use that term, compatible – then, you know, be Christian about it! Be Christian. You know, sister, we’ve already had our prayer for a year, it doesn’t seem like we’re getting closer, in fact, we’re drifting further and further apart from each other. As long as you do it the right way, you can still have a wonderful Christian relationship all throughout your life.

And once you break it off with someone. This is not from the Bible, brethren. This is just [my] personal opinion. You know, I don’t care what happened to you in the past. You know, I have no control over… who did you go out with a year ago? Who did you go out with five years ago? What kind of relationship did you have with that person? It doesn’t… To me, it doesn’t matter what happened. What matters is the moment, you know, the moment that we met, in the time that we’ve been able to spend and share with one another. Did we gel? Were we able to be compatible? Forget about the past! I think that’s just basically ego. You know, when it comes to love, you set aside your ego, especially if you’re praying for this person and if you’re praying for the relationship to [work out], this potentially could be your partner for life that you’re praying with.

Lois Paula: And I love, Brother Jojo, how you mentioned… we asked, how do you get over it? You mentioned ego. How do you deal with other brothers or sisters in the faith where you don’t want to offend them? You know, we talked about, OK, do we just be mature about it? But you answered it. You said be Christian. And that’s, you know, holding the values of love and compassion in our heart because we never know who they might meet or who they might come across. And we always want, like you mentioned, to make sure that we leave our relationship in the best Christian manner.

Brother Jojo: If there were any hurt feelings in the past. In Ephesians 4:32 of the New King James version, says this:

And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God in Christ forgave you.
[Ephesians 4:32 New King James Version]

Brother Jojo: And so it’s just, again, after we get rid of that pride you know, there’s nothing left but to be kind and to forgive one another. If feelings were hurt along the way, then if we sincerely didn’t mean to break people’s hearts, then we have to forgive and go on with our lives.

Lois Paula: Christian code. Not bro code, not girl code.

Martin: Oh yeah. Christian code. Christian code. Let go of the ego and let in the love. I love It.

Martin: Thank you so much, Brother Jojo. And you know what’s crazy? We set off talking about this topic of friendship, trying to find the love of the friendships that we have. But then, you know, these relationships, they interconnect how we love ourselves as friends, how our friends show their love for making us choose the right person that God has sent for us. And then, now that we’re with that person, how [does] that relate to the friends who may have had a relationship with that one… Like,  it all interconnects. And it’s crazy that, biblically, the answers are all there, Brother Jojo. So, thank you so much for that.

And as we end this part two of Friendship – loving our friends, LP, was there anything else that you want to talk about? I was just going to really quickly read just one comment from our Instagram posts…

Lois Paula: Please do.

Martin: … that kind of encapsulates what we’ve been talking about. What we did was we went online, of course – #HeartAndSoul – and whenever we have questions – #AskHeartAndSoul. And so, we said, “Send your friend a shout out and tell us why that person is an awesome friend.” This one [is] from Sister Kristen Fragata:

Kristen Fragata: Jadlyn is an awesome friend because she just is! She’s beautiful on the outside, but more so on the inside. She has a kind, loving and a very helpful heart. And I admire her patience and her diligence in performing her duties primarily as a head secretary. She’s very reliable and very trustworthy, and she just gets me as a friend. She knows what I’m going to say or do even before I say it. And words cannot express how thankful I am for this friendship that God has given us. Thanks for all you do, best! I love you!
 
Martin: So, I’d just like to take this moment, before we end, because he’s on the panel. Thank you, Len. You’re an awesome friend because even though we’ve only been friends for three years, and we’re a very opinionated bunch, and you kind of soak it all in and observe. Thank you for your patience. I can only imagine how hard it is to sit in a car full of the guys saying the craziest of things, wanting to do the craziest of things, and you’re always there – patient and providing the right amount of academic input and knowledge and advice and sincere sound thoughts. So, thank you for your patience and for your friendship, bro. I appreciate it a lot.

Lenner: Any time. I’m glad I got to be on this podcast and I appreciate you bringing me on this.

Lois Paula: Len, do you have a shout out to another friend? It doesn’t have to be Martin, just so that we can go outside our circle of friends here. A shout out you’d want to give to anyone else in your life?

Lenner: I guess, shout out to Brother Ben and Brother George. Also to my brother he’s really close to me, obviously, so shout out to him, Brother Albert.

Lois Paula: Cool. And to Sister Krystal, thank you for being you. Thank God for you, for sending you to my life, for your honesty and your loyalty, your trust in our friendship and faith in what we could be. Thank you. I love you. See, short and sweet. I did it! But Krystal, do you have a shout out? Not to me, but anyone else? Friends or family that you want to give?

Krystal: Sure. I just want to say hi to everybody in San Diego, all the girls over there.

Lois Paula: They better listen, we will send this [to them]. We love you, guys.

Martin: And we can’t end without asking Brother Jojo. So, Brother Jojo, who is your friend shout out?

Brother Jojo: You know what? Just Sister Vernie.

Lois Paula: Aww!


Brother Jojo: Sister Veronica Cancio Bayani has been… we’re going to celebrate our 25th wedding anniversary next month, and just being part of this podcast has made me realize, you know, I’m going to let her listen to this once it comes out and I’m just going to say thank you. Man, I mean 25 years of putting up with my stuff! I thank her for loving me the way that I am and putting up with all of the… all of the… we’ll just leave it at that. But thank you for the opportunity.

Martin: Thank you, so much. And thank you, LP, you’re a good friend, too.

Lois Paula: Oh, Martin!

Martin: Thanks for hosting our show!

Lois Paula: Thanks for discussions! Thank you, Brother Jojo, Sister Krystal, Brother Lenner, thank you for joining us. And to all our listeners for always tuning in. If you have questions about love or relationships, #AskHeartAndSoul. You can directly message us on Instagram or Twitter or Facebook. We’d love to hear from you!

But again, we thank you for joining us. Hopefully this prompts more conversation about love and relationships, friendships in your life with the people that mean most to you, and definitely will bring us closer to God. Again, I’m Lois Paula Riturban.

Martin: And I’m Martin Zerrudo. And we’re just people talking love, talking love and relationships on INC Heart And Soul. 

[Show Close]

Martin: To be honest, Lenner and I don’t hang out as much as we used to. And Lois and Krystal may not be seeing each other as much as they used to either. But I think a wonderful thing we have inside the Church Of Christ is no matter how much time has passed, no matter where you are in the world, we’ll always be brothers and sisters in Christ, united by friendship and more so by faith.

Martin: While we hope this episode was helpful to all of you, we want to hear your thoughts on this episode and what you gained from it! Leave us a comment on Instagram @HeartAndSoulConversations in any one of our posts, and let us know what you think.

That’s it for us today! Hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time! Ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

Martin Zerrudo: You’re listening to Heart and Soul. A podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ. I’m your host Martin Zerrudo. 

[Show Open]

Martin Zerrudo: With me again is my co-host, Shannon. Hey, Shannon!

Shannon Santamaria: Hi, Martin! I’m so happy to be here.

Martin: So let’s dive right into our episode today. Today, we’re talking about friends. Now, I know you can relate, Shannon, the pandemic has definitely changed how we socialize, especially those socially distancing mandates and wearing masks and a lot of different restrictions that we had to experience both here in Toronto and over there on the West Coast.

Shannon Santamaria: That’s right. I mean, some and even today use masks as a fashion statement because of the mandates. And it just makes us feel safer. But before that—well, I mean, what did you do before the pandemic to, you know, hang out with your friends, Martin? I kind of want to see how fun it was to look back and to see how back and to see how things are now.

Martin: Back in the day?

Shannon: Yeah.

Martin: Oh, definitely. In my mid to late teens, it was all about hanging out at different people’s houses, playing games, playing sports, watching TV. And then in my early to mid twenties, it was honestly being active in a lot of different Church activities. Interacting with different officers, doing visitations across not only Canada but also in the North Eastern part of the United States. And then a little bit later into my twenties and early thirties, it was really just, making your circle a little bit smaller and just having, dinner, you know, talking over coffee or bubble tea and and just, slowing down, not always going out so often and spending more quality time with a closer knit group of people, for sure. How about you?

Shannon: Yeah, I think before the pandemic, definitely before 2020. I don’t necessarily even remember being at home all that much. I was always out, whether it was experiencing a new event or going to a sports event or hanging out with friends or just, enjoying my time, being in person with them. And I think you made a good reference about how, you know, the way you hang out kind of changes over time.

Martin: Absolutely. You know, it’s really interesting to think about how much things changed from then to now, not only in the differences in our generation, the differences in the age group that you’re in as you get older. But a big thing that has remained consistent despite all of these changes for me, at least, in maintaining my friendships, is that I do occasionally, you know, interact with my friends online, whether it’s playing video games, whether it’s discussing movies and TV shows. The ability to connect on the internet has really been a significant means to to maintain these friendships across a wide variety of different activities. What about you Shannon? I know you’re super active on social media.

Shannon: I know! I’m guilty as charged, right. I think the pandemic really accelerated my use on social media. A lot of the time I’m making friends on social media and making friends with, you know, other members of the Church Of Christ who I haven’t met yet or that I’m excited to meet. There’s also some, you know, precautionary steps that I should take in making new friends online, definitely. I think that’s what’s awesome about being in the Church. You have that kind of same value and same love that everyone has inside the Church.

Martin: That’s right. But something has happened over the last couple of years. 

Shannon: Yes. 

Martin: In these early… late 2000-teens and early 2000-20s. Can you talk a little bit about what happened there?

Shannon: My life completely changed! No, I’m kidding—I mean, it did. But I guess it changed in the sense that, you know, looking back, the way that I make friends and the way that I hang out with them is entirely different to how I used to. And not just because I am growing up and I’m a little bit more mature, but also because, you know, the circumstances have changed. I have to make sure that I’m always safe and my friends are safe, whether it’s, you know, some sort of ailment or some sort of situation. And it’s pretty interesting to talk about how I kind of managed to keep some of those friendships throughout the pandemic era. But I know that there’s some people that, you know, maybe have fallen out of touch. I know that I have fallen out of touch with a couple of my friends because of that lack of human interaction.

Martin: For sure. Very true, Shannon. And sometimes it’s pretty hard to cope with those emotions, especially because we were stuck at home for such a long period of time. And I think what made it even, especially, more challenging is, we weren’t always able to go to the places of worship or the chapels [or] the houses of worship to attend worship service. Thankfully, you know, the Church Administration had really foreseen and made sure that we were equipped for situations like this. Allowed us to continue to attend worship service nonstop during the pandemic by means of worshiping online. But I think in some areas it was open and in some areas it was closed. And then some areas it was open and then it closed for six months, and then there were certain zones or different colors or phases of being open and closed. So it wasn’t always very clear what to expect.

Shannon: I’m getting war flashbacks. No, I’m just kidding. 

Martin: Right? It was, honestly, it was somewhat traumatizing having to go through such a difficult period of unknown. And I think, definitely –  

Shannon: And so quickly. 

Martin: – Yeah, and so quickly. So, it is hard to cope with those kinds of emotions because, you know, we were stuck at home. But I think definitely asking for help is the direction to take. Not only then for the many times that we reached out to our spiritual leaders, but even now. So let’s ask for some advice from our guest and minister of the gospel, Brother Felmar.

Brother Felmar Serreno: Hi, Martin. Hi, Shannon. Thank you for having me.

Shannon: Thank you for joining us!

Martin: Yeah, we’re so happy to have you Brother Felmar, of course a show favorite. For those of you who are new, Brother Felmar has joined us for episodes in the past and it’s always great to have you Brother Felmar. And I wanted to start by asking, what does the Bible say about friendships and companionship? Are there any examples in the Bible of close friends?

Brother Felmar: Good question, Martin. And there are! One example we can read about in the book of James, the chapter is 2, and the verse is 23. We’ll quote from the Living Bible: 

And so it happened just as the Scriptures say, that Abraham trusted God, and the Lord declared him good in God’s sight, and he was even called “the friend of God.”

[James 2:23 The Living Bible]

Brother Felmar: One of the servants of God who was blessed to be called the friend of God was Abraham. What’s the proof they were close friends? The Bible explains that Abraham trusted God and that the Lord declared him – Abraham – good in God’s sight. 

Do you know who else had close friends? Let’s go to the book of John, the chapter is 15, the verses are 13 and 15 in the God’s Word translation: 

The greatest love you can show is to give your life for your friends. I don’t call you servants anymore, because a servant doesn’t know what his master is doing. But I’ve called you friends because I’ve made known to you everything that I’ve heard from my Father.

[John 15:13,15 GOD’S WORD Translation]

Brother Felmar: Here, the Lord Jesus was speaking with His apostles. How is it that He considered and called His faithful apostles? As His friends.

Martin: That’s so amazing to hear. Really interesting to read that these close friendships exist even from such an older time in the past.

Shannon: Yeah. I think what I find intriguing, I guess, is that, people who lived a long time ago, before technology was even invented they didn’t have that kind of resource as a means of communication for friendships. And while today we have that technology to communicate with anyone from across the world, there are still friends that we’ve lost touch with because of those changes, especially because of the pandemic or, you know, life changes.

Brother Felmar: Actually, Shannon, if I can react to that. Technology definitely accelerates communication. And communication is a part of, you know, friendship, right? 

Shannon: Right.

Brother Felmar: Simple example. You know, back in the day, if you wanted to communicate with someone who was a far distance away from you, you’d write a letter, right? Snail mail. That’s pretty much all you could do. It would physically have to travel to get to the one that you’re writing to. Nowadays, because of technology, that process is accelerated. You can message someone. You can write a letter to someone. They’ll receive it almost instantaneously. 

However, the building blocks for meaningful friendships, it’s not based on technology per se. Rather the things that make up meaningful friendships, it’s taught by the Bible, right? To have love and concern for one another, to help each other when we’re in need, at communication, right? Having patience and understanding with one another. So, those are the things that really make meaningful friendships.

Martin: So, Brother Felmar, when you read those verses about friendship, for us, when we’re friends with people of this world, not all friendships last. You’re friends for a couple of months. Maybe you’re super, super close for a couple of years. And then for some reason you have a falling out. The friendship kind of fizzles out or friendships kind of just naturally fade on their own. 

Brother Felmar: Yeah, it does happen.

Martin: Yeah, it does happen. And I actually recently got a question last week, Brother Felmar. How do you deal with, like, a friendship breakup? Some friends that don’t last forever.

Brother Felmar: Yeah. Becoming out of touch with a friend, especially a good one, can be hard to recover from. Why are we sure? How does the Bible describe the importance of having a friend? In the book of Ecclesiastes, we can learn this, [in] chapter 4 verses 9 to 10 in the Unlocked Dynamic Bible, I quote the following.

Having someone work with you is better than being by yourself all the time. If you have a friend, he can help you to do your work. If you fall down, he can help you get up again. But if you fall down when you are alone, you will have trouble, because there is no one to help you stand up.

[Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 Unlocked Dynamic Bible]

Brother Felmar: According to the Bible, having someone to work with, especially a friend, is better than being alone all the time. A friend can help you to do your work, the Bible stated. What else is the benefit or advantage of having a friend? When a person falls down, his friend can help him get up again. On the other hand, what happens to a person who falls down and is alone? The Bible says you will have trouble because there is no one to help you. 

So learning from the Bible how valuable a friend is, it’s no surprise that it can hurt when you lose a friend. Losing a friend could be due to a regrettable experience, or death, or other factors in life, like changes brought about by the pandemic. Or chapters in our life that require our undivided attention, like getting married or having a baby, or confronting tests of faith.

Shannon: Definitely. I mean, one of the things that I do recall are those friends that, even though you haven’t talked to them during, you know, a certain amount of time—for a long period of time. Once you see them again, it’s like you guys never stop talking. It just feels like there was no time difference, I would say.

Brother Felmar: Right and that ties into what we were talking about earlier with technology. So that’s the great thing about technology. Not only does it accelerate communication, but it helps when it comes to those things, right? Things happen in life that are beyond our control. And sometimes neither party really wants the friendship to fizzle out, but things happen. But because of technology, we can take advantage of the opportunity, right? Wherever we may be in the world, you know, whatever the time zone may be. And you can try to rekindle that friendship, right? But the building blocks of what put it together that’s like what the Bible has been mentioning, you know, helping each other out, being there for each other. And going off of what you just stated, Shannon yeah, it’s pretty, it’s pretty cool, right? It almost, yeah. It’s really something that you can pick up from where you kind of left off, even if there’s been a year or a couple of years in between. Yeah, that’s a good friend for you, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Shannon: Yes.

Martin: You know, when I hear about the utilization of the Internet, social media and being able to find friends online, I really think about the growth of the Church. And how, as kids, growing up, your circle of friends really at the time was limited to those who are in your local congregation. Then you have your big district events and you kind of expand that network of friendships and then you kind of look forward to seeing each other once or twice a year when all the local congregations come together for a Unity Games or a huge Musical Evangelical Mission or any kind of district activity that brings you closer together. 

But now, with the advent of the technology that connects us together through the Internet, you know, districts around the world, from Africa to California to Tokyo to Philippines to Canada, are connecting through meet and greets and different global activities where you’re able to literally interact with like minded and like faith people, Christians, around the world. And you already have that great foundation to build a friendship off of. Which makes it all the more easy that if for whatever reason a friendship fizzles out or it’s come to its natural progression—to its end. There’s a wealth, millions and millions of Christians out there that we have the ability to connect through Church activities led by the Church Administration.

Brother Felmar: Yeah, I think one of the keywords in what you just stated there, Martin, is the foundation, right? The foundation, we have the same faith, we uphold the same Christian values, and so it’s a big factor when it comes to making meaningful friendships, right? You are surrounding yourself with members of the Church Of Christ who have the same outlook as you, [who are] going in the same direction as you.

Martin: Absolutely.

Brother Felmar: We worship the same way. We practice our values the same way.

Martin: Yeah, no need for an icebreaker. All of that is kind of checked off already.

Brother Felmar: Right? Yeah, there exactly. And like what you mentioned those activities that we’re doing through the Christian Family Organizations, that’s the good way to use technology, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Brother Felmar: Use it to continue to build and reinforce those connections or those friendships.

Martin: Now Brother Felmar some friendships end, and that’s okay. You know, it’s part of life. We grow up and we move on. But there are some friendships that are worth keeping. I myself actually recently in these last couple of months have gone through an experience where there were some very, very close friendships that, you know, for a time because of some of the challenges recently, not just with the pandemic, but with different directions sometimes you’re going in life, sometimes there’s misunderstandings or miscommunications. I kind of felt like, hey, this really important friendship of mine may be in jeopardy here. And I made a concerted effort for all of us to have a chance to reach out, to hash things out. And now our friendship is stronger than ever. So does the Bible say anything about that? Are there any kinds of friendships or friends that we probably want to keep and really fight for?

Brother Felmar: For sure, the Bible does describe that kind of friend who is worth keeping, and we can read about that here in the Book of Proverbs, chapter 17, verse 17.

A friend loves at all times. He is there to help when trouble comes. 

[Proverbs 17:17 New International Reader’s Version]

Brother Felmar: So based on the Bible, the friends we should make a conscious effort to keep are those who prove their genuine love and concern for us, especially by being there for us, or to lend a helping hand to help us out when trouble comes.

Shannon: I actually had kind of a question about that Brother Felmar. I mean, some of the friends that I’ve met during the pandemic and even on social media, you know, I’ve never met them. 

Brother Felmar: Right.

Shannon: So, what I want to know is how can I define that friend, you know, making new friends that I haven’t met. I know that I’ve made quite a lot.

Brother Felmar: Right, that goes back to what we were talking about earlier with technology is a great tool for accelerating communication, right. But when it comes to the building blocks of what makes a true friend that meaningful friendship, it’s something else when you meet each other, when you have these experiences together, right. It’s really hard to test the friendship out, if everything is virtual right? There’s an advantage there when it comes to technology. But like what the Bible stated here, a friend loves at all times, he is there to help when trouble comes. How do you test that out, over the internet?

Shannon: Exactly.

Martin: Yeah, that’s true. If I may add to that, actually. So I have a friend of mine and I’ve known him for maybe 15 years now and we started off, we became friends because we met on a Star Wars forum. We’re talking about how much we love Star Wars, how much we love the Star Wars video games. So we’re big fans of science fiction, science fantasy. And we continued that friendship by playing online together in various different games when we had time, of course within reason, nothing too excessive. But we enjoyed that friendship for a good, I want to say 12 years. And then the final movie came out for The Avengers, Infinity War or something like that. And he said, I want to visit Toronto and let’s watch it together with a bunch of our friends that we were gaming together with. 

Shannon: Oh wow.

Martin: And I said, I haven’t met you in 12 years. We’ve been gaming for this for the longest time. 

Brother Felmar: Wow.

Martin: So he visited us in Toronto and I planned it out Brother Felmar. I planned it out, Sister Shannon. We watched a movie the first night, then we had dinner the next night. And then the night before he flew out, the morning of, there was a livestream worship service with Brother Eduardo. And he was able to sit there beside me on the front row and he had his headset on so he could understand the worship service. Because he was from New Orleans, he was Caucasian.

Brother Felmar: Wow. 

Martin: And afterwards he was like, I noticed you praying so hard in the worship service. I was like, yeah, I was. And he goes, were you praying for me? Like, are you praying for my soul? I was like, I kind of was! I was hoping you, you know, you kind of understand the side of who I am, this very important part of my life.

Brother Felmar: That’s nice.

Shannon: Aw, that’s so sweet.

Martin: And we’ve continued to stay friends ever since. And so, to your point, Brother Felmar, technology accelerated the connection and communication of our love for a lot of different things. From video games to movies to TV shows. But spending that quality time together and being able to share my faith that way, nothing really beats that. Nothing forges a friendship like being able to share your faith in that way, for sure.

Brother Felmar: Right. Yeah. And that’s the proof that there’s something there, right? That he was willing to come out and to meet you, right? So, yeah, that’s the proof that this is a friend worth keeping. You both care about each other, you share you know, passions for your hobbies or your interests. But seeing that, in person, it’s really the proof that, you know, this is genuine, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Shannon: Brother Felmar, you know how technology has kind of, I guess, increased, boosted or accelerated communication, and we get to talk to people from around the world and meet people we’ve never met. I mean, I think it’s also created a sense of skepticism for some people, too. Maybe they aren’t as trustworthy or trusting to those individuals they haven’t met online and maybe even some relationships, as great as they are, and some friendships, as great as they are, they sometimes don’t always work out. You know, is there like a way to go about that?

Brother Felmar: No, that’s a great point, because we should also be careful, right? Again, there’s only so much you can know about a person through the internet or virtually or through text message, right? And better we go to the Holy Scriptures for more guidance. In the Book of 1 Corinthians, chapter 15, let’s read verses 33 down to 34: 

But don’t be deceived by what the world promotes! The reality is that unhealthy friends and associates corrupt good character. Be sensible, do what’s right and healthy because it is right and healthy,

[1 Corinthians 15:33-34 The Remedy New Testament]

Brother Felmar: As Christians, we strive to be friendly with everybody. That goes hand in hand with shining as lights in this world. And so it was wonderful to hear that story that you shared, Martin, with a friend that you made over the Internet, over gaming. However, this doesn’t mean that anyone and everyone that we meet in person or online should be considered as a close friend. Why? Because the Bible is cautioning us here about unhealthy friends. Who are unhealthy friends? Associates who corrupt good character. How does the Bible advise us to deal with such people? The Bible stated, don’t be deceived by what the world promotes. Be sensible, do what’s right. Just as the Apostles instructed the Christians in their time to not be deceived by what the world promotes, the same caution is given to us now by our Executive Minister, Brother Eduardo Manalo. Also, through the instrumentality of all ministers, as well as our youth programs, like some of them we mentioned earlier. And even through mediums like this, like this podcast, Heart and Soul. Just because something is popular and is being done by many people, including our associates or acquaintances, that does not mean that we, members of the Church of Christ, should also do it. Let us examine it first. If it is in accordance with God’s will written in the Bible.

Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. I recall a time when I was in college, where it was my freshman year and I would always pack my lunch, of course, because tuition is rising, #inflation. But when I would get there, I had some friends, they had meal cards. So, they’re like, hey, yeah, Martin, come on, let’s go. I’ve got a meal card. I’ll just swipe it and then you can get some food. I was like, yeah, I’m not going to turn down free pizza. So, you know, whenever it was lunchtime, I’d eat and whenever they’d want to grab me some, some extra stuff. I wouldn’t always take advantage of it, but if they wanted to, it’s no problem. We became very, very close and it was kind of like a tradition that we would always eat and go out before and after our class.

Brother Felmar: Okay.

Martin: And one of the things they did often was go to bars. They would go to the bar, especially if it was a class that ended at 8 p.m. or so, and we were all of age to drink here in Canada.

Brother Felmar: Okay.

Martin: And I would always say no, and I would always say no, and I would always say no. And it got to the point where—I wouldn’t say it was a huge detriment per se to the friendship. But they were starting to feel like, hey are you like, better than us? Or are we doing something wrong in your eyes? Like, what’s the matter? Why can’t you just join us for one drink at the bar?

Brother Felmar: Right.

Martin: What do we do if we do have some friends who insist on us doing things that are against our Christian beliefs and values? Because that peer pressure doesn’t just happen when you’re kids. It happens all the way up until adulthood.

Brother Felmar: Yeah, correct. Well, you know, if they’re insisting on doing something which we know goes against our beliefs and Christian values, well, you know, their decision is their decision. But for us, as Christians, we need to be sensible. That’s what we heard right now from the Holy Scriptures. We have to be sensible as Christians. And what’s a sensible thing to do? We should stand up for our faith. So, we can be honest and, at the same time, courteous, in explaining to our friends, you know, for example, in your situation, I can’t go along with that… It’s nothing… I don’t mean to be… It’s not… how would I say this? If you could remind me, Martin.What were your friends saying again? What was their line of reasoning? They were saying…

Martin: Oh, are you better than us? Or, you know, are we doing something wrong in your eyes? Yes.

Brother Felmar: Ok, there we go. Right. So, we can correct their way of thinking right then and there, that I don’t mean in any way to come off as if I’m better than you, but I hope you understand I can’t go along with that because it’s against my faith and values. So, if after that, still, they’re insisting, or they’re still kind of giving us a hard time, well, when all else fails, what’s another sensible thing to do? Just stay away. You know, no one can force us to do anything. And if ever any youth, or anyone for that matter, feels like they are being forced into something and they don’t know how to break free, well, number one, we have to pray. Ask for God’s help, ask for God’s guidance and the courage to stand up for our faith. And then notify our loved ones. And don’t forget, us ministers and Church officers are always ready to help with anything that we can.

Shannon: Yeah, that kind of makes me reflect, there are even some friends that I’ve met online who would want me to, have fun with them or try and promote me to do things that don’t really line up with my faith. So, I guess it doesn’t really matter whether, you know, they’re online or even in person. There’s definitely a variety of people we can meet, that just aren’t good for our faith.

Martin: No, it’s so true. Because if you ask me who am I still closest with, who am I still interacting with, who am I still trying to keep in contact with?

Shannon: That’s right.

Martin: It’s my friends from high school. The ones in college who were kind of peer pressuring me in the wrong way, totally not invested in keeping those friendships alive. It’s so true. And I can say that I’ve made several long term friendships, both before the pandemic, during the pandemic, we were friends with our neighbor upstairs when we were living in a basement apartment. And I even managed to take, like I mentioned earlier, make some friends and invite them to Church while being stuck at home as well. Also, we have two other friends. Their names are Luna and Oliver. They’re cats. I can’t bring them to Church, but they’re also friends that I’ve made during the pandemic.

Shannon: You know, Martin before a good friend, I guess to me, I know that we’ve been listening to scripture and kind of being [reminded] about what a good friend is. But a good friend will respect your values. They’ll never force you or peer pressure. And it’s a good reminder to have. 

Brother Felmar: Correct.

Shannon: Especially because we’re going back into making new friends again and socializing and not being in our rooms.

Brother Felmar: Right. To add to what Shannon just mentioned, that’s a great point, Shannon. You know, with the example Martin shared, right. He was being pressured into drinking alcoholic beverages after school. Remember what the Bible stated, a friend loves at all times. So if these people we’ve met, people we go to class with, etc. When we have shared with them our faith and who we are, and we can’t go along with those things that others are doing because it goes against our beliefs, and they’re giving us a hard time for it. Well, then that’s not someone who cares about us at all times, right? 

So, Shannon is right. If others cannot even respect our beliefs or the decisions we’re making because of our faith, well then, according to the Holy Bible, well then, that’s not a friend worth keeping, right? A friend like what the Bible stated will be there to help you out when trouble comes and will not be the one to make trouble for you, right? A real friend is going to help you out.

Martin: Absolutely. And I think what’s great about that verse and that advice, Brother Felmar, not only is it—it’s timeless. I don’t want to say timely, because it’s timeless. It applies back then in biblical times, and it applies now. 

Brother Felmar: Yes.

Martin: But I also think it goes both ways. For those of us, as members of the Church Of Christ, we have friends who are not part of the true Church. We have friends who are of different religions. So, for example, I have a friend, I remember again in my college years, he was Muslim. He wasn’t able to eat certain foods. And I loved eating certain foods like, oh, yeah, give me pizza with all the bacon on it, load it up. I’m not going to persecute him and be like, hey, what’s wrong with you? You don’t want to eat bacon on your pizza or your burger? It definitely goes both ways. So, our ability to respect and be respected, especially when it comes to our faith, is so very important in determining the kind of friends that we want to keep and the kind of friends that we want to be.

Brother Felmar: Right. I remember a piece of advice. Another minister shared that respect is a two-way street. And as members of the Church of Christ, based on the Holy Scriptures, we love and respect all people. We care about all people. That doesn’t mean that we agree or adhere to everybody’s beliefs or practices, but that mutual respect is there for all people, regardless of what their beliefs or religions are, right? 

So, yes as Christians, we uphold love and respect for all people. But at the same time, if you’re not receiving that from, someone who’s… you’re going to college with, then maybe we should rethink that friendship.

Martin: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Brother Felmar: But, Martin and Shannon, and to everyone tuning in, in as much as the topic we’re discussing is about friendship. So, of all the friends that one could have in this life, which is the friendship that matters most? Let’s read about that, here, in the book of Psalms, the chapter is 25, and the verse is 14.

The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear him, and he makes known to them his covenant. 

[Psalm 25:14 English Standard Version]

Brother Felmar: The Lord God is the greatest friend a person could have in this life. However, whom does God consider as his friend? The Bible says, the friendship of the Lord is for those who fear Him. We prove that we have holy fear of God through our obedience to His commands, and that’s based on Psalm, chapter 112, verse 1.

Martin: I want to thank you so much for being our guest today, Brother Felmar. Hearing those verses and seeing how you’re able to not only relate, but connect some of our personal anecdotes and experiences to the teachings of the Bible is the reason why we have these kinds of episodes. 

So again, thank you so much Brother Felmar, for joining us in our discussion today. I hope you had a good time and learn as much as we did in this episode. Thank you so much.

Brother Felmar: Thank you again, Martin and Shannon, for having me here on Heart And Soul. Thank you to the Church Administration for projects like this and opportunities like this for us to have, you know, these kinds of conversations. It’s a wonderful experience and I hope everyone listening in also feels the same way.

Shannon: I also want to thank our listeners for joining us today. We definitely, I hope, felt the love and care that we all had in this discussion.

Martin: Absolutely. Thank you, Shannon, for being a wonderful co-host. Thank you again, Brother Felmar, for joining us and providing spiritual advice. And to our listeners, we hope this episode was helpful to all of you and we want to hear from you! 

Let us know your thoughts on this episode and all things Heart And Soul and what you gain from it, by leaving us a comment on Instagram @heartandsoulconversations. We want to hear from you. And of course, if you want to learn more and hear more from Brother Felmar Serrano, he is, of course, the host and the spiritual advisor for the Happy Life podcast, that’s a podcast for newly-wed members within the Church Of Christ. So please log on to incmedia.org and look up Happy Life or search for Happy Life wherever you get your podcasts. 

Again, I’m Brother Martin Zerrudo. Thank you so much for listening. We hope this episode helped and we hope that wherever you are, you’re doing well. Take care.