Heart & Soul

Martin Zerrudo: You’re listening to Heart and Soul. A podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ. I’m your host Martin Zerrudo. 

[Show Open]

Martin Zerrudo: With me again is my co-host, Shannon. Hey, Shannon!

Shannon Santamaria: Hi, Martin! I’m so happy to be here.

Martin: So let’s dive right into our episode today. Today, we’re talking about friends. Now, I know you can relate, Shannon, the pandemic has definitely changed how we socialize, especially those socially distancing mandates and wearing masks and a lot of different restrictions that we had to experience both here in Toronto and over there on the West Coast.

Shannon Santamaria: That’s right. I mean, some and even today use masks as a fashion statement because of the mandates. And it just makes us feel safer. But before that—well, I mean, what did you do before the pandemic to, you know, hang out with your friends, Martin? I kind of want to see how fun it was to look back and to see how back and to see how things are now.

Martin: Back in the day?

Shannon: Yeah.

Martin: Oh, definitely. In my mid to late teens, it was all about hanging out at different people’s houses, playing games, playing sports, watching TV. And then in my early to mid twenties, it was honestly being active in a lot of different Church activities. Interacting with different officers, doing visitations across not only Canada but also in the North Eastern part of the United States. And then a little bit later into my twenties and early thirties, it was really just, making your circle a little bit smaller and just having, dinner, you know, talking over coffee or bubble tea and and just, slowing down, not always going out so often and spending more quality time with a closer knit group of people, for sure. How about you?

Shannon: Yeah, I think before the pandemic, definitely before 2020. I don’t necessarily even remember being at home all that much. I was always out, whether it was experiencing a new event or going to a sports event or hanging out with friends or just, enjoying my time, being in person with them. And I think you made a good reference about how, you know, the way you hang out kind of changes over time.

Martin: Absolutely. You know, it’s really interesting to think about how much things changed from then to now, not only in the differences in our generation, the differences in the age group that you’re in as you get older. But a big thing that has remained consistent despite all of these changes for me, at least, in maintaining my friendships, is that I do occasionally, you know, interact with my friends online, whether it’s playing video games, whether it’s discussing movies and TV shows. The ability to connect on the internet has really been a significant means to to maintain these friendships across a wide variety of different activities. What about you Shannon? I know you’re super active on social media.

Shannon: I know! I’m guilty as charged, right. I think the pandemic really accelerated my use on social media. A lot of the time I’m making friends on social media and making friends with, you know, other members of the Church Of Christ who I haven’t met yet or that I’m excited to meet. There’s also some, you know, precautionary steps that I should take in making new friends online, definitely. I think that’s what’s awesome about being in the Church. You have that kind of same value and same love that everyone has inside the Church.

Martin: That’s right. But something has happened over the last couple of years. 

Shannon: Yes. 

Martin: In these early… late 2000-teens and early 2000-20s. Can you talk a little bit about what happened there?

Shannon: My life completely changed! No, I’m kidding—I mean, it did. But I guess it changed in the sense that, you know, looking back, the way that I make friends and the way that I hang out with them is entirely different to how I used to. And not just because I am growing up and I’m a little bit more mature, but also because, you know, the circumstances have changed. I have to make sure that I’m always safe and my friends are safe, whether it’s, you know, some sort of ailment or some sort of situation. And it’s pretty interesting to talk about how I kind of managed to keep some of those friendships throughout the pandemic era. But I know that there’s some people that, you know, maybe have fallen out of touch. I know that I have fallen out of touch with a couple of my friends because of that lack of human interaction.

Martin: For sure. Very true, Shannon. And sometimes it’s pretty hard to cope with those emotions, especially because we were stuck at home for such a long period of time. And I think what made it even, especially, more challenging is, we weren’t always able to go to the places of worship or the chapels [or] the houses of worship to attend worship service. Thankfully, you know, the Church Administration had really foreseen and made sure that we were equipped for situations like this. Allowed us to continue to attend worship service nonstop during the pandemic by means of worshiping online. But I think in some areas it was open and in some areas it was closed. And then some areas it was open and then it closed for six months, and then there were certain zones or different colors or phases of being open and closed. So it wasn’t always very clear what to expect.

Shannon: I’m getting war flashbacks. No, I’m just kidding. 

Martin: Right? It was, honestly, it was somewhat traumatizing having to go through such a difficult period of unknown. And I think, definitely –  

Shannon: And so quickly. 

Martin: – Yeah, and so quickly. So, it is hard to cope with those kinds of emotions because, you know, we were stuck at home. But I think definitely asking for help is the direction to take. Not only then for the many times that we reached out to our spiritual leaders, but even now. So let’s ask for some advice from our guest and minister of the gospel, Brother Felmar.

Brother Felmar Serreno: Hi, Martin. Hi, Shannon. Thank you for having me.

Shannon: Thank you for joining us!

Martin: Yeah, we’re so happy to have you Brother Felmar, of course a show favorite. For those of you who are new, Brother Felmar has joined us for episodes in the past and it’s always great to have you Brother Felmar. And I wanted to start by asking, what does the Bible say about friendships and companionship? Are there any examples in the Bible of close friends?

Brother Felmar: Good question, Martin. And there are! One example we can read about in the book of James, the chapter is 2, and the verse is 23. We’ll quote from the Living Bible: 

And so it happened just as the Scriptures say, that Abraham trusted God, and the Lord declared him good in God’s sight, and he was even called “the friend of God.”

[James 2:23 The Living Bible]

Brother Felmar: One of the servants of God who was blessed to be called the friend of God was Abraham. What’s the proof they were close friends? The Bible explains that Abraham trusted God and that the Lord declared him – Abraham – good in God’s sight. 

Do you know who else had close friends? Let’s go to the book of John, the chapter is 15, the verses are 13 and 15 in the God’s Word translation: 

The greatest love you can show is to give your life for your friends. I don’t call you servants anymore, because a servant doesn’t know what his master is doing. But I’ve called you friends because I’ve made known to you everything that I’ve heard from my Father.

[John 15:13,15 GOD’S WORD Translation]

Brother Felmar: Here, the Lord Jesus was speaking with His apostles. How is it that He considered and called His faithful apostles? As His friends.

Martin: That’s so amazing to hear. Really interesting to read that these close friendships exist even from such an older time in the past.

Shannon: Yeah. I think what I find intriguing, I guess, is that, people who lived a long time ago, before technology was even invented they didn’t have that kind of resource as a means of communication for friendships. And while today we have that technology to communicate with anyone from across the world, there are still friends that we’ve lost touch with because of those changes, especially because of the pandemic or, you know, life changes.

Brother Felmar: Actually, Shannon, if I can react to that. Technology definitely accelerates communication. And communication is a part of, you know, friendship, right? 

Shannon: Right.

Brother Felmar: Simple example. You know, back in the day, if you wanted to communicate with someone who was a far distance away from you, you’d write a letter, right? Snail mail. That’s pretty much all you could do. It would physically have to travel to get to the one that you’re writing to. Nowadays, because of technology, that process is accelerated. You can message someone. You can write a letter to someone. They’ll receive it almost instantaneously. 

However, the building blocks for meaningful friendships, it’s not based on technology per se. Rather the things that make up meaningful friendships, it’s taught by the Bible, right? To have love and concern for one another, to help each other when we’re in need, at communication, right? Having patience and understanding with one another. So, those are the things that really make meaningful friendships.

Martin: So, Brother Felmar, when you read those verses about friendship, for us, when we’re friends with people of this world, not all friendships last. You’re friends for a couple of months. Maybe you’re super, super close for a couple of years. And then for some reason you have a falling out. The friendship kind of fizzles out or friendships kind of just naturally fade on their own. 

Brother Felmar: Yeah, it does happen.

Martin: Yeah, it does happen. And I actually recently got a question last week, Brother Felmar. How do you deal with, like, a friendship breakup? Some friends that don’t last forever.

Brother Felmar: Yeah. Becoming out of touch with a friend, especially a good one, can be hard to recover from. Why are we sure? How does the Bible describe the importance of having a friend? In the book of Ecclesiastes, we can learn this, [in] chapter 4 verses 9 to 10 in the Unlocked Dynamic Bible, I quote the following.

Having someone work with you is better than being by yourself all the time. If you have a friend, he can help you to do your work. If you fall down, he can help you get up again. But if you fall down when you are alone, you will have trouble, because there is no one to help you stand up.

[Ecclesiastes 4:9-10 Unlocked Dynamic Bible]

Brother Felmar: According to the Bible, having someone to work with, especially a friend, is better than being alone all the time. A friend can help you to do your work, the Bible stated. What else is the benefit or advantage of having a friend? When a person falls down, his friend can help him get up again. On the other hand, what happens to a person who falls down and is alone? The Bible says you will have trouble because there is no one to help you. 

So learning from the Bible how valuable a friend is, it’s no surprise that it can hurt when you lose a friend. Losing a friend could be due to a regrettable experience, or death, or other factors in life, like changes brought about by the pandemic. Or chapters in our life that require our undivided attention, like getting married or having a baby, or confronting tests of faith.

Shannon: Definitely. I mean, one of the things that I do recall are those friends that, even though you haven’t talked to them during, you know, a certain amount of time—for a long period of time. Once you see them again, it’s like you guys never stop talking. It just feels like there was no time difference, I would say.

Brother Felmar: Right and that ties into what we were talking about earlier with technology. So that’s the great thing about technology. Not only does it accelerate communication, but it helps when it comes to those things, right? Things happen in life that are beyond our control. And sometimes neither party really wants the friendship to fizzle out, but things happen. But because of technology, we can take advantage of the opportunity, right? Wherever we may be in the world, you know, whatever the time zone may be. And you can try to rekindle that friendship, right? But the building blocks of what put it together that’s like what the Bible has been mentioning, you know, helping each other out, being there for each other. And going off of what you just stated, Shannon yeah, it’s pretty, it’s pretty cool, right? It almost, yeah. It’s really something that you can pick up from where you kind of left off, even if there’s been a year or a couple of years in between. Yeah, that’s a good friend for you, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Shannon: Yes.

Martin: You know, when I hear about the utilization of the Internet, social media and being able to find friends online, I really think about the growth of the Church. And how, as kids, growing up, your circle of friends really at the time was limited to those who are in your local congregation. Then you have your big district events and you kind of expand that network of friendships and then you kind of look forward to seeing each other once or twice a year when all the local congregations come together for a Unity Games or a huge Musical Evangelical Mission or any kind of district activity that brings you closer together. 

But now, with the advent of the technology that connects us together through the Internet, you know, districts around the world, from Africa to California to Tokyo to Philippines to Canada, are connecting through meet and greets and different global activities where you’re able to literally interact with like minded and like faith people, Christians, around the world. And you already have that great foundation to build a friendship off of. Which makes it all the more easy that if for whatever reason a friendship fizzles out or it’s come to its natural progression—to its end. There’s a wealth, millions and millions of Christians out there that we have the ability to connect through Church activities led by the Church Administration.

Brother Felmar: Yeah, I think one of the keywords in what you just stated there, Martin, is the foundation, right? The foundation, we have the same faith, we uphold the same Christian values, and so it’s a big factor when it comes to making meaningful friendships, right? You are surrounding yourself with members of the Church Of Christ who have the same outlook as you, [who are] going in the same direction as you.

Martin: Absolutely.

Brother Felmar: We worship the same way. We practice our values the same way.

Martin: Yeah, no need for an icebreaker. All of that is kind of checked off already.

Brother Felmar: Right? Yeah, there exactly. And like what you mentioned those activities that we’re doing through the Christian Family Organizations, that’s the good way to use technology, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Brother Felmar: Use it to continue to build and reinforce those connections or those friendships.

Martin: Now Brother Felmar some friendships end, and that’s okay. You know, it’s part of life. We grow up and we move on. But there are some friendships that are worth keeping. I myself actually recently in these last couple of months have gone through an experience where there were some very, very close friendships that, you know, for a time because of some of the challenges recently, not just with the pandemic, but with different directions sometimes you’re going in life, sometimes there’s misunderstandings or miscommunications. I kind of felt like, hey, this really important friendship of mine may be in jeopardy here. And I made a concerted effort for all of us to have a chance to reach out, to hash things out. And now our friendship is stronger than ever. So does the Bible say anything about that? Are there any kinds of friendships or friends that we probably want to keep and really fight for?

Brother Felmar: For sure, the Bible does describe that kind of friend who is worth keeping, and we can read about that here in the Book of Proverbs, chapter 17, verse 17.

A friend loves at all times. He is there to help when trouble comes. 

[Proverbs 17:17 New International Reader’s Version]

Brother Felmar: So based on the Bible, the friends we should make a conscious effort to keep are those who prove their genuine love and concern for us, especially by being there for us, or to lend a helping hand to help us out when trouble comes.

Shannon: I actually had kind of a question about that Brother Felmar. I mean, some of the friends that I’ve met during the pandemic and even on social media, you know, I’ve never met them. 

Brother Felmar: Right.

Shannon: So, what I want to know is how can I define that friend, you know, making new friends that I haven’t met. I know that I’ve made quite a lot.

Brother Felmar: Right, that goes back to what we were talking about earlier with technology is a great tool for accelerating communication, right. But when it comes to the building blocks of what makes a true friend that meaningful friendship, it’s something else when you meet each other, when you have these experiences together, right. It’s really hard to test the friendship out, if everything is virtual right? There’s an advantage there when it comes to technology. But like what the Bible stated here, a friend loves at all times, he is there to help when trouble comes. How do you test that out, over the internet?

Shannon: Exactly.

Martin: Yeah, that’s true. If I may add to that, actually. So I have a friend of mine and I’ve known him for maybe 15 years now and we started off, we became friends because we met on a Star Wars forum. We’re talking about how much we love Star Wars, how much we love the Star Wars video games. So we’re big fans of science fiction, science fantasy. And we continued that friendship by playing online together in various different games when we had time, of course within reason, nothing too excessive. But we enjoyed that friendship for a good, I want to say 12 years. And then the final movie came out for The Avengers, Infinity War or something like that. And he said, I want to visit Toronto and let’s watch it together with a bunch of our friends that we were gaming together with. 

Shannon: Oh wow.

Martin: And I said, I haven’t met you in 12 years. We’ve been gaming for this for the longest time. 

Brother Felmar: Wow.

Martin: So he visited us in Toronto and I planned it out Brother Felmar. I planned it out, Sister Shannon. We watched a movie the first night, then we had dinner the next night. And then the night before he flew out, the morning of, there was a livestream worship service with Brother Eduardo. And he was able to sit there beside me on the front row and he had his headset on so he could understand the worship service. Because he was from New Orleans, he was Caucasian.

Brother Felmar: Wow. 

Martin: And afterwards he was like, I noticed you praying so hard in the worship service. I was like, yeah, I was. And he goes, were you praying for me? Like, are you praying for my soul? I was like, I kind of was! I was hoping you, you know, you kind of understand the side of who I am, this very important part of my life.

Brother Felmar: That’s nice.

Shannon: Aw, that’s so sweet.

Martin: And we’ve continued to stay friends ever since. And so, to your point, Brother Felmar, technology accelerated the connection and communication of our love for a lot of different things. From video games to movies to TV shows. But spending that quality time together and being able to share my faith that way, nothing really beats that. Nothing forges a friendship like being able to share your faith in that way, for sure.

Brother Felmar: Right. Yeah. And that’s the proof that there’s something there, right? That he was willing to come out and to meet you, right? So, yeah, that’s the proof that this is a friend worth keeping. You both care about each other, you share you know, passions for your hobbies or your interests. But seeing that, in person, it’s really the proof that, you know, this is genuine, right?

Martin: Absolutely.

Shannon: Brother Felmar, you know how technology has kind of, I guess, increased, boosted or accelerated communication, and we get to talk to people from around the world and meet people we’ve never met. I mean, I think it’s also created a sense of skepticism for some people, too. Maybe they aren’t as trustworthy or trusting to those individuals they haven’t met online and maybe even some relationships, as great as they are, and some friendships, as great as they are, they sometimes don’t always work out. You know, is there like a way to go about that?

Brother Felmar: No, that’s a great point, because we should also be careful, right? Again, there’s only so much you can know about a person through the internet or virtually or through text message, right? And better we go to the Holy Scriptures for more guidance. In the Book of 1 Corinthians, chapter 15, let’s read verses 33 down to 34: 

But don’t be deceived by what the world promotes! The reality is that unhealthy friends and associates corrupt good character. Be sensible, do what’s right and healthy because it is right and healthy,

[1 Corinthians 15:33-34 The Remedy New Testament]

Brother Felmar: As Christians, we strive to be friendly with everybody. That goes hand in hand with shining as lights in this world. And so it was wonderful to hear that story that you shared, Martin, with a friend that you made over the Internet, over gaming. However, this doesn’t mean that anyone and everyone that we meet in person or online should be considered as a close friend. Why? Because the Bible is cautioning us here about unhealthy friends. Who are unhealthy friends? Associates who corrupt good character. How does the Bible advise us to deal with such people? The Bible stated, don’t be deceived by what the world promotes. Be sensible, do what’s right. Just as the Apostles instructed the Christians in their time to not be deceived by what the world promotes, the same caution is given to us now by our Executive Minister, Brother Eduardo Manalo. Also, through the instrumentality of all ministers, as well as our youth programs, like some of them we mentioned earlier. And even through mediums like this, like this podcast, Heart and Soul. Just because something is popular and is being done by many people, including our associates or acquaintances, that does not mean that we, members of the Church of Christ, should also do it. Let us examine it first. If it is in accordance with God’s will written in the Bible.

Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. I recall a time when I was in college, where it was my freshman year and I would always pack my lunch, of course, because tuition is rising, #inflation. But when I would get there, I had some friends, they had meal cards. So, they’re like, hey, yeah, Martin, come on, let’s go. I’ve got a meal card. I’ll just swipe it and then you can get some food. I was like, yeah, I’m not going to turn down free pizza. So, you know, whenever it was lunchtime, I’d eat and whenever they’d want to grab me some, some extra stuff. I wouldn’t always take advantage of it, but if they wanted to, it’s no problem. We became very, very close and it was kind of like a tradition that we would always eat and go out before and after our class.

Brother Felmar: Okay.

Martin: And one of the things they did often was go to bars. They would go to the bar, especially if it was a class that ended at 8 p.m. or so, and we were all of age to drink here in Canada.

Brother Felmar: Okay.

Martin: And I would always say no, and I would always say no, and I would always say no. And it got to the point where—I wouldn’t say it was a huge detriment per se to the friendship. But they were starting to feel like, hey are you like, better than us? Or are we doing something wrong in your eyes? Like, what’s the matter? Why can’t you just join us for one drink at the bar?

Brother Felmar: Right.

Martin: What do we do if we do have some friends who insist on us doing things that are against our Christian beliefs and values? Because that peer pressure doesn’t just happen when you’re kids. It happens all the way up until adulthood.

Brother Felmar: Yeah, correct. Well, you know, if they’re insisting on doing something which we know goes against our beliefs and Christian values, well, you know, their decision is their decision. But for us, as Christians, we need to be sensible. That’s what we heard right now from the Holy Scriptures. We have to be sensible as Christians. And what’s a sensible thing to do? We should stand up for our faith. So, we can be honest and, at the same time, courteous, in explaining to our friends, you know, for example, in your situation, I can’t go along with that… It’s nothing… I don’t mean to be… It’s not… how would I say this? If you could remind me, Martin.What were your friends saying again? What was their line of reasoning? They were saying…

Martin: Oh, are you better than us? Or, you know, are we doing something wrong in your eyes? Yes.

Brother Felmar: Ok, there we go. Right. So, we can correct their way of thinking right then and there, that I don’t mean in any way to come off as if I’m better than you, but I hope you understand I can’t go along with that because it’s against my faith and values. So, if after that, still, they’re insisting, or they’re still kind of giving us a hard time, well, when all else fails, what’s another sensible thing to do? Just stay away. You know, no one can force us to do anything. And if ever any youth, or anyone for that matter, feels like they are being forced into something and they don’t know how to break free, well, number one, we have to pray. Ask for God’s help, ask for God’s guidance and the courage to stand up for our faith. And then notify our loved ones. And don’t forget, us ministers and Church officers are always ready to help with anything that we can.

Shannon: Yeah, that kind of makes me reflect, there are even some friends that I’ve met online who would want me to, have fun with them or try and promote me to do things that don’t really line up with my faith. So, I guess it doesn’t really matter whether, you know, they’re online or even in person. There’s definitely a variety of people we can meet, that just aren’t good for our faith.

Martin: No, it’s so true. Because if you ask me who am I still closest with, who am I still interacting with, who am I still trying to keep in contact with?

Shannon: That’s right.

Martin: It’s my friends from high school. The ones in college who were kind of peer pressuring me in the wrong way, totally not invested in keeping those friendships alive. It’s so true. And I can say that I’ve made several long term friendships, both before the pandemic, during the pandemic, we were friends with our neighbor upstairs when we were living in a basement apartment. And I even managed to take, like I mentioned earlier, make some friends and invite them to Church while being stuck at home as well. Also, we have two other friends. Their names are Luna and Oliver. They’re cats. I can’t bring them to Church, but they’re also friends that I’ve made during the pandemic.

Shannon: You know, Martin before a good friend, I guess to me, I know that we’ve been listening to scripture and kind of being [reminded] about what a good friend is. But a good friend will respect your values. They’ll never force you or peer pressure. And it’s a good reminder to have. 

Brother Felmar: Correct.

Shannon: Especially because we’re going back into making new friends again and socializing and not being in our rooms.

Brother Felmar: Right. To add to what Shannon just mentioned, that’s a great point, Shannon. You know, with the example Martin shared, right. He was being pressured into drinking alcoholic beverages after school. Remember what the Bible stated, a friend loves at all times. So if these people we’ve met, people we go to class with, etc. When we have shared with them our faith and who we are, and we can’t go along with those things that others are doing because it goes against our beliefs, and they’re giving us a hard time for it. Well, then that’s not someone who cares about us at all times, right? 

So, Shannon is right. If others cannot even respect our beliefs or the decisions we’re making because of our faith, well then, according to the Holy Bible, well then, that’s not a friend worth keeping, right? A friend like what the Bible stated will be there to help you out when trouble comes and will not be the one to make trouble for you, right? A real friend is going to help you out.

Martin: Absolutely. And I think what’s great about that verse and that advice, Brother Felmar, not only is it—it’s timeless. I don’t want to say timely, because it’s timeless. It applies back then in biblical times, and it applies now. 

Brother Felmar: Yes.

Martin: But I also think it goes both ways. For those of us, as members of the Church Of Christ, we have friends who are not part of the true Church. We have friends who are of different religions. So, for example, I have a friend, I remember again in my college years, he was Muslim. He wasn’t able to eat certain foods. And I loved eating certain foods like, oh, yeah, give me pizza with all the bacon on it, load it up. I’m not going to persecute him and be like, hey, what’s wrong with you? You don’t want to eat bacon on your pizza or your burger? It definitely goes both ways. So, our ability to respect and be respected, especially when it comes to our faith, is so very important in determining the kind of friends that we want to keep and the kind of friends that we want to be.

Brother Felmar: Right. I remember a piece of advice. Another minister shared that respect is a two-way street. And as members of the Church of Christ, based on the Holy Scriptures, we love and respect all people. We care about all people. That doesn’t mean that we agree or adhere to everybody’s beliefs or practices, but that mutual respect is there for all people, regardless of what their beliefs or religions are, right? 

So, yes as Christians, we uphold love and respect for all people. But at the same time, if you’re not receiving that from, someone who’s… you’re going to college with, then maybe we should rethink that friendship.

Martin: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Brother Felmar: But, Martin and Shannon, and to everyone tuning in, in as much as the topic we’re discussing is about friendship. So, of all the friends that one could have in this life, which is the friendship that matters most? Let’s read about that, here, in the book of Psalms, the chapter is 25, and the verse is 14.

The friendship of the LORD is for those who fear him, and he makes known to them his covenant. 

[Psalm 25:14 English Standard Version]

Brother Felmar: The Lord God is the greatest friend a person could have in this life. However, whom does God consider as his friend? The Bible says, the friendship of the Lord is for those who fear Him. We prove that we have holy fear of God through our obedience to His commands, and that’s based on Psalm, chapter 112, verse 1.

Martin: I want to thank you so much for being our guest today, Brother Felmar. Hearing those verses and seeing how you’re able to not only relate, but connect some of our personal anecdotes and experiences to the teachings of the Bible is the reason why we have these kinds of episodes. 

So again, thank you so much Brother Felmar, for joining us in our discussion today. I hope you had a good time and learn as much as we did in this episode. Thank you so much.

Brother Felmar: Thank you again, Martin and Shannon, for having me here on Heart And Soul. Thank you to the Church Administration for projects like this and opportunities like this for us to have, you know, these kinds of conversations. It’s a wonderful experience and I hope everyone listening in also feels the same way.

Shannon: I also want to thank our listeners for joining us today. We definitely, I hope, felt the love and care that we all had in this discussion.

Martin: Absolutely. Thank you, Shannon, for being a wonderful co-host. Thank you again, Brother Felmar, for joining us and providing spiritual advice. And to our listeners, we hope this episode was helpful to all of you and we want to hear from you! 

Let us know your thoughts on this episode and all things Heart And Soul and what you gain from it, by leaving us a comment on Instagram @heartandsoulconversations. We want to hear from you. And of course, if you want to learn more and hear more from Brother Felmar Serrano, he is, of course, the host and the spiritual advisor for the Happy Life podcast, that’s a podcast for newly-wed members within the Church Of Christ. So please log on to incmedia.org and look up Happy Life or search for Happy Life wherever you get your podcasts. 

Again, I’m Brother Martin Zerrudo. Thank you so much for listening. We hope this episode helped and we hope that wherever you are, you’re doing well. Take care.

Heart And Soul – Self-Care

Martin Zerrudo: You are listening to Heart and Soul. A podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ. I’m your host Martin Zerrudo, and I’ll be interviewing young adults from across the world. Who are living Christian lives, but are also dealing with real-world problems. This is Heart and Soul.

[Show Open]

Martin: Hi everyone! It’s so good to be back for another season of Heart and Soul. And wherever you are right now, as you listen to our first episode of this season, I hope you and your family are healthy and safe. Like I said, this is the first episode of this season, and we have a lot of new and exciting things that we want to introduce to you throughout the season. But one of the new changes is that I’m very happy to announce that sitting virtually beside me, in another part of the world, is Shannon Santamaria, the new co-host here at Heart and Soul. Hi Shannon!

Shannon Santamaria: Hi Martin! I’m happy to be here!

Martin: Super excited to have you join the show. What are you looking forward to most about being a part of the show?

Shannon: The genuine conversations we’re going to be having today. I think these kinds of conversations are timeless and always serve as a memory to look back to. 

Martin: Couldn’t have said it better myself. So, let’s dive right into our episode for today. We’re talking about self-care. What is it? Why should we make time for self-care and what does self-care as a Christian look like? Now, the term self-care is so much more popular now than it has ever been a few years ago and may even be more practiced in certain parts of the world. But I wanted to share this definition that I found on everydayhealth.com:

Self-care means taking care of yourself so that you can be healthy, you can be well, you can do your job, you can help and care for others, and you can do all the things you need to and want to accomplish in a day.

[Source: everydayhealth.com]

Martin: Now when we talk about self-care, what does that look like for you, Shannon? 

Shannon: That’s a hard question! I can’t really define self-care except to provide myself the needs that it needs at that given moment or you know what I’ve been lacking lately in life. Whether it’s taking time for myself, going on a walk, or just meditating before prayer.

Martin: Right.

Shannon: Those are really important for self-care.

Martin: Definitely. For myself, I guess self-care is having lunch with my wife, making sure we don’t lose our synchronicity when watching a show, because we have to watch it at the same time, going outside on the balcony breathing in some fresh air, and just kind of not feeling bad about taking a little bit of time for yourself throughout the day. But on a scale of 1 to 10 how would you rate yourself in terms of your self-care game? 

Shannon: Oh man. My self-care game is like a solid 4. What about yours?

Martin: I’m coming in at a solid 2.5.

Shannon: I mean we do live both very stressful and very busy lives. I mean everyone does.

Martin: Right.

Shannon: Especially now, you know, post pandemic, during pandemic, everything about it. I know and we obviously need more guidance in taking care of ourselves. I mean if I’m a 4 and you’re a 2 we obviously need some help with that.

Martin: For sure.

Shannon: And I’m not afraid to ask for help! And to help us with that I want to bring in our two guests for today, first Brother Donald Pinnock a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hi, Brother Donald!

Brother Donald Pinnock: Hi Shannon and hi Martin. It’s really really good to be here once again. 

Martin: And joining us as well is Dr. Sydney Fontanares, a clinical psychologist from California. Thank you for being here with us.

Dr. Sydney: Hello! It’s great to be here, thank you.

Martin: Now before we get started, Dr. Sydney, what would you rate your self-care game? 1 to 10?

Dr. Sydney: 1 to 10. I’m actually quite proud of my self-care game, I would say it’s around 8.

Martin: Oh, great!

Dr. Sydney: Yeah, I guess working in the mental health field, it’s very important for myself and to be able to do the work that I do.

Martin: For sure, and in terms of certain things that you do for self-care, what would that be?

Dr. Sydney: Good question! Now that I’m on the spot, now I can’t really. I’m so proud but… Things that come up for me, I guess my self-care has changed a lot. I actually just recently had my second child. She’s about 4 months old, I have an older toddler that’s 3. So my self-care, I feel like, just looks a little bit different now. But my favorite self-care things are reading, even if it’s 5-10 minutes, also being able to have time to myself. I’m sure many moms can relate, a lot of people are just wanting your time so having time to yourself is a big deal.

Martin: Definitely, definitely. But for those who are listening, we’re talking about self-care, self-care game. taking some time to take care of ourselves. How would you exactly explain what self-care really is? We see a lot of posts on social media where it looks like getting a massage or a pedicure or devoting some time to devouring your favorite food is self-care but are we getting it right? What is self-care really and why do we need it?

Dr. Sydney: Sure again, working in the mental health field, how I’ve seen self-care as, is just taking the time to do things that help us live well and these activities help us improve both our physical health and our mental health. And our mental health also includes our emotional, our cognitive, our social wellbeing. So anything that can help us enrich those areas.

Martin: Definitely. And, Brother Donald, before I ask about the Bible, and whether it has self-care [written] in it, I want to ask you: What would rate your self-care game at from 1 to 10?

Brother Donald: Self-care game, it’s much better than it was maybe a decade ago because I believe I was a lot busier. But now as I’m getting on in my years, I really do find the time to take care, so I think I’m close to an 8. I’m going to go with Dr. Sydney, I’m close to an 8 because I really do again make the effort to look after myself.

Martin: That’s fantastic.

Brother Donald: Trying, anyway. 

Martin: No, you’re doing a great job. For those who don’t know, we’re in a group chat with Brother Donald and he messages us every morning bright and early, right after his walk and he shows us his steps and it’s fantastic, Brother Donald, your level of consistency and devotion into really taking the time not only for your physical health but also your mental health. I know during those walks, you say it’s very soothing and reflective when you get a chance to take those walks in the morning. 

Brother Donald: Yeah sometimes the weather is not so conducive, but I do enjoy it as much as I can anyway. It helps.

Martin: And with regards to the Bible, does it comment on this idea of self-care?

Brother Donald: Well it does, even though it may not use the expression “self-care,” but for example, we can read in 1 Thessalonians 5:23 the following:  

May the God of peace himself sanctify you entirely, and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[1 Thessalonians 5:23 New Revised Standard Version] 

Brother Donald: So, clearly, we can see here that God wants us to be sound or healthy when it comes to our spirit, our soul and our body. And if we were to ask, for example, when it comes to looking after both our spiritual and our bodily health, if you allow me to read right away, 1 Timothy 4:8, it states this: 

Physical exercise has some value, but spiritual exercise is valuable in every way, because it promises life both for the present and for the future.

[1 Timothy 4:8 Today’s Today’s English Version] 

Brother Donald: We all know, and I lean towards Doctor Sydney also, to attest that regular exercise is indeed beneficial for the body as well as for the mind. We can lower, for example, our stress level, we release those endorphins, those “feeling good” hormones, and also we maintain a healthy mental state. That’s why everyone should find a form and level of exercise that suits their age and also their ability. And, of course, we should consult a doctor if we’re just going to begin an exercise regimen just to make sure that what we’re considering doing is something that we can really cope [with]. And as for Godly exercise, which is far more important, how is this done? By implementing the teachings of God in our daily life. When we apply these Bible admonitions, we can properly look after our spirit, soul, and body, or meaning to say we can really tackle self-care.

Shannon: Right, Brother Donald. But I noticed that one of the things that is so common is when life gets super busy and stressful, you know, these little self-care habits that we practice go away. I think it’s one of the first things I forget or it’s sometimes the first thing that’s sacrificed because of our busy schedules. But Doctor Sydney, I want to know, why should we be more committed to taking care of ourselves during those stressful periods? 

Dr. Sydney: I would say, it’s important to be even more intentional about our self-care during our stressful periods because self-care allows us to be able to help others. If you’re able to take care of yourself you can take care of others and help others and give yourself to other people. The thing that we say, again, when working in mental health, is that you can’t pour from an empty cup. So if you’re feeling empty it’s hard to give more of yourself to others. But if you’re refilling your cup, if you’re refilling yourself, you’re able to give more and give back. Also, it’s just, again, we’ve talked about just allowing it to help you in your everyday life. It helps you to be able to manage all of the stressors that you’re experiencing, all the barriers in life that you’re encountering, and just helps you live well. 

Brother Donald: If I could interject, Doctor Sydney, I’d just like to say that I really admire professionals like you when it comes to this field. Because I assume that when it comes to dealing with some people who do have issues when it comes to their mental state, [whether] psychologically, emotionally, that in ways if you’re not really looking after yourself, it could affect you in adverse ways. But from listening to what you’re saying and how you’re saying it, I really feel that you have a good handle on your emotions and your mental state, and you really are doing a good job when it comes to taking care of yourself. And that’s why you’re able to help others. I just wanted to interject that. 

Dr. Sydney: Oh, thank you, Brother Donald! 

Brother Donald: You’re welcome!

Dr. Sydney: I really appreciate that! And I mean it’s certainly, self-care is not just for, I would say like, helping professions, but mothers, fathers… like if you’re in a relationship with another human being, it’s necessary because you do want to take care of them or be present with them.

Brother Donald: Yes. You can’t do that unless you’re really taking care of yourself. So, yes, it does make a lot of sense. 

Martin: To that point, actually, I think it’s a fantastic segue to what I was having challenges with at the early onset of married life. My whole life I was very excited to be a husband, to be a head of a household, to maybe God willing a father. But during the pandemic, you’re working from home, I really, I guess you could say it was burning the candle from both ends and I really didn’t prioritize taking care of myself because I was so focused on taking care of my wife and our household and making sure we were all okay and loved ones and friends. And so there’s that level of guilt almost right? You spend a little time for yourself and you start feeling like I could’ve spent that time working more or helping more or doing more for others. So I guess, Doctor Sydney, how do we deal with that guilt? And does self-care necessarily always have to be like a 2 hour bath? What are some things that we can implement in our daily schedules that [don’t] necessarily have to take the whole day?

Dr. Sydney: Sure, I’m glad that you brought that up, Martin, because it does bring up kind of the misconception of what self-care is, and that it’s something that’s selfish. But it’s actually something again—it means that you’re being mindful of your needs, not you choosing yourself over your loved ones. There’s this one thing that I just recently read and it’s not “me first” it’s “me too”. Just because you’re like “Hey, I’m going to practice self-care” it doesn’t mean that you’re all of a sudden forgetting your loved ones and it’s just you and that’s it. You’re taking care of yourself so you can take care of others. I guess I’ve repeated that so many times, but that’s kind of, I guess, the point. And you mentioned, you know, burning the candle on both ends, and again that’s why self-care is so necessary. There is this term of “burn out” that’s been happening for a lot of people. People are struggling in their jobs and within their family and things like that. And people feel resentful or upset or, you know, they’re just more emotional, so it’s again why we practice self-care. And it doesn’t have to be a two hour, or even an hour thing, or even really thirty minutes. There are several self-care activities that we can do. Some people practice deep breathing for a couple of minutes. Some people practice going for a walk for a couple of minutes, opening the window, getting some fresh air. Sending a text to a loved one, just saying hi, or just an appreciation or a moment of gratitude for them. So there’s all these little things that you can do that can serve as building blocks. I think, kind of remembering that self-care is not just kind of a one-and-done thing, it’s something that we practice, or we should be practicing on a regular basis. So, you know, getting a massage or going to the spa is fine, but remembering that it’s not going to wipe away all the stressors in your life just because you’ve done it. It’s going to be a habit, it’s something you’ll hopefully be practicing to take care of yourself regularly. 

Shannon: Doctor Sydney, I actually have another question. I know that we keep learning that there are a lot of self-care activities but what are some things that we shouldn’t necessarily do? I know that what we need to take care of is our mental and physical health, and that might look different for each and every single one of us. But is there a rule or a mindset that we should follow so that whatever self-care activity we do, we’re really nurturing ourselves and our self-care and what we need?

Dr. Sydney: Sure. I don’t think there’s necessarily a specific rule for self-care. If anything it’s exactly kind of what you said, Shannon. It looks very different for every person so just because someone says they’re walking regularly and that works for them, that doesn’t necessarily mean it works for you. It’s really finding or trying out different things and finding what works for you and again what refills your cup. I think kind of—if your mindset is that self-care is just this way, it has to be two hours of your day, it kind of becomes a barrier. You’re less likely to do so if you know that you have to invest that much time or money into it. When self-care can be absolutely free and a couple of minutes here and there, and also if it’s something that you haven’t practiced before, it doesn’t mean that you can’t just start now, too. I think a lot of people are hesitant they’re like “that’s not something that I really believed in before, where do I even start?” It’s an ongoing practice. It also changes with the different seasons of your life. Again like, for me, when I was single, no kids, I would read for hours. Now, I read maybe five minutes here and there and I feel like that still continues to refill my cup and it works for me right now.

Brother Donald: Yeah if I can jump in, those are really good habits you mentioned, Doctor Sydney. Because perhaps there are some, in an attempt to escape pressure that they may be feeling, they believe when it comes to taking care of themselves, that they can utilize substances, for example. Meaning to say they’re resorting to what may appear as a positive means of taking care of themselves but in truth, it’s really very negative. It can have adverse effects. So, what you mentioned, for example, reading a book, going for a walk, you know, getting some fresh air, even having that short but sweet conversation with a loved one. Those and other positive acts really help when it comes to taking care of our entire being. Not just physically, but again, emotionally and even psychologically so especially nowadays, we really need to look after ourselves. All people should strive to do so in a positive manner. 

Shannon: Brother Donald, I’m actually curious, does the Bible also teach us this kind of discipline? Or the value of taking care of ourselves for the long term, or throughout our entire lives?

Brother Donald: Well, yes, the Bible does, it makes mention about looking after ourselves. We just read earlier when it came to the first verse, actually, of our study which was 1 Thessalonians 5:23, looking after our entire being. So, that’s not just to be done for a short period of time. We have to make it a lifestyle in many ways. It’s a lifetime commitment that we’re going to be looking after ourselves.

Martin: So, what [does] that lifetime commitment of practicing self-care look like as a Christian, Brother Donald? 

Brother Donald: Well, let’s read Isaiah 41:6, let’s allow the Bible to answer:

Each helps the other and says to his brother, “Be strong!”

[Isaiah 41:6 New International Version]

Brother Donald: So, this is why we are taught to look after ourselves, so that we can look after others. Again, I turn to Doctor Sydney, because she mentioned even from the very beginning how important it is that we look after ourselves so we can look after others. Whether they be family members, our spouse, our children, or just friends. That’s why inside the Church, the Church Of Christ, we have activities that help to edify our fellow members of the Church. When it comes to, for example, the married members, when it comes to those who are young adults, not yet married and even down to the young children. We devise activities, events so that this will build up one another and also our friendship, or what we call as the love of brotherhood. And we also care for others, especially those in our respective communities. We have such drives such as food or clothing drives and our donations. We clean parks here in Canada, of course, it’s really dependent on the weather, but we do help when it comes to cleaning up our neighborhood. We do so many things in order to show and express our care and love for others and we’re able to do so because with the help of God and His teachings and living in accordance with His teachings, that is a great advantage for us to be taking care of ourselves. 

Martin: That’s really amazing Brother Donald. Thank you so much for that. It just goes to show, and everytime we have a conversation with a professional specifically in the mental health field – whether it’s you Doctor Sydney, we’ve had Doctor Darwin Byson on a couple of times as well – it really shows how powerful it is when you combine the day to day practices of self-care. The things that we learn through mental health and physical health with the powerful messages and spiritual doctrines that we receive in the Church Of Christ to bolster our ability to take care of ourselves. I just want to ask really quickly, Doctor Sydney, as a medical professional, as someone who deals with a lot of different challenges every single day, and as it relates to self-care, how does being a Christian help you take care of yourself and perform your duties as a medical professional?

Dr. Sydney: I would say it really—being a Christian is a major foundation of the work that I do. A lot of the patients that I work with have… they share stories of suffering with me and what they struggle with on a day to day basis. And it helps that for me, as a Christian, to have my beliefs and my values and even having, you know, going to worship service, and having that time for myself and God. Shannon had mentioned even the time to meditate before you pray. All those activities, they support in the work that I do. I know even though I’m hearing all these stories, I know that there is a bigger reason in life, that there is something bigger than all of this. So, I don’t know if I expressed myself very well there, but it is a big deal. Worship service and even the activities, the social activities that the Church holds is just a great way to recharge and reconnect and find a lot of goodness and do self-care.

Brother Donald: If I could add, Brother Martin and Doctor Sydney, you touched on how important it is when it comes to your different services to God, especially the Worship Service and also prayer. Again, that’s a big advantage for the members of the Church Of Christ. Because, through prayer, not only do we exhibit our trust in the ability of God, but also, it gives us the confidence, does it not? After we pray, it’s like a lift. Because we know that there’s someone, and when I say someone in the sense of the Almighty God who is unlimited when it comes to His capacity or capability. He’s there to uplift us. So when we do feel the strains of life, again, we have exercise, we have those habits, those good habits that we practice to ease the pressure, to ease the tension, and then we have prayer. So, we’ve got everything in ways when it comes to overcoming those challenges and, at the same time, taking care of ourselves, now we can reach out and take care of others.

Martin: Absolutely. Such a powerful thing to hear, Brother Donald. And thank you so much for that, Doctor Sydney. You know when they say, you can’t pour… what’s the saying, Doctor Sydney? About your cup being empty? You can’t pour from an empty cup?

Dr. Sydney: Yes! You can’t pour from an empty cup.

Martin: You know and we’re all very much eager, and I’m sure our listeners all around the world are eager to be as active as we can be in our activities in the Church and our Church duties, and being able to share our faith and to edify one another in our activities. That requires our cup to be filled so that we can fulfill those different endeavors! And so, if anything, when you get to the end of it all in our conversation, I guess, self-care really allows you to worship more, to do more, to be more active, to serve more. Your ability to take some time to take care of yourself in a lot of various ways allows you to devote yourself more to worshiping and serving God. Did I get that right, Brother Donald?

Brother Donald: Yes, I totally agree, Brother Martin. 

Martin: Perfect. So, I want to thank you so much again, Doctor Sydney. I don’t think this is the last time that we’ll have you on the show. Such fantastic insight. Thank you so much, again, for joining us today. 

Dr. Sydney: Of course! Thank you for having me.

Martin: And thank you again so much, Brother Donald, for joining us again in our discussion. And Shannon, again, welcome to Heart and Soul! How did you feel about our first episode? What did you think?

Shannon: I’m excited for future episodes!

Martin: Absolutely. And I hope you had fun and learned as much as I did during this first episode.

Shannon: Definitely! I’m going to try and get a 10 on that self-care.

Martin: There you go. I’m going to take a three hour bath, nobody message me! So, thank you all so much for listening, we hope this episode was helpful to you all and actually we wanna hear what you thought of this episode and please join us in the conversation for all the things that we post on our Instagram @HeartandSoulConversations, we want to hear from you.

That’s it for us today. Hope we were able to help and hope you’re able to listen with all your Heart And Soul. Take care.

Heart And Soul – Unbroken Heart  

Martin Zerrudo: You are listening to Heart and Soul. A podcast from the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church of Christ. I’m your host Martin Zerrudo, and I’ll be interviewing young adults from across the world. Who are living Christian lives, but are also dealing with real-world problems. This is Heart and Soul.

[Show Open]  

Martin Zerrudo: Hi, everyone. We’re back with another episode of Heart and Soul. Wherever you are right now, I hope you and your family are healthy and safe. With me again is my co-host, Shannon. Hey, Shannon!

Shannon Santamaria: Hi, Martin! I’m so happy to be here.

Martin: Absolutely happy to have you. Have you been recently?

Shannon: Good! I’m actually in California now.

Martin: Awesome. I’m very jealous as here in Toronto, it snowed three days ago, but who’s counting?

Shannon: [Laughs] Maybe you.

Martin: Maybe just me. So let’s dive right into our episode for today. Today, we’re talking about the unbroken heart. How to move on from heartbreak. 

Now, I think, for a lot of our viewers that are watching and listening today, we’re all at that age, right? We’re at that time in our lives when we start to consider what we look for in someone we’d consider building a future with.

Shannon: Honestly, that is so true. If you don’t mind me asking, Martin, what were some of your requirements – if I could say that – when you were looking for a future wife?

Martin: Yeah. You know, it’s funny. In my late teens – like eighteen, nineteen – that was very different from my mid-twenties, which is very different from my late twenties to early thirties. But I think the only consistent thing that I was looking for was someone who was going to bring me closer and strengthen my relationship with God. How about you?

Shannon: I think, for me, it’s more about how they can help me grow in my faith as well. I know that sounds very quote, unquote, “basic,” but I think it’s a fundamental value that I would need to have if I am looking for someone. That they can help me in my performance in the performance of my duties. And you’d be surprised. I’m actually really picky about that! 

Martin: [Laughs] No, no. As you should be. You know, it’s funny, like, aside from them being, you know, extremely faithful and active, I also wanted to find somebody who got along well with my family. You know, being able to get along in various situations, various instances – whether it’s a gathering or a dinner or just hanging out – a lot of the time when you’re married, it’s spent with family and friends. And so long as that dynamic is solid and is smooth and everybody gets along, it’s such an important, important requirement for a healthy relationship, I think.

Shannon: I think for me, as well, if I could talk about one more trait that I am looking for, it’s that independence, it’s that independence that, you know, the person that I’m going to have and build a future with can understand how to be independent, you know, relying and trusting in God more than they are on me. I think that’s a good foundation to have as well because, yes, you know, we’ll build a future together, but at the end of the day, you need to have a solid foundation within yourself.

Martin: Right. You’re still, you’re two people coming together as one.

Shannon: Yes.

Martin: Right. Two unique individuals. And, you know, these are really great requirements. Somebody who’s independent, has a great foundation, obviously, God fearing, and someone who will challenge us and push us to grow in our faith. As well as, you know, being able to relate and have a good time and connect with family. But here’s another thought: What was that first heartbreak like for you?

I’m going to you, Shannon. You don’t need to go into too much detail, but if you could just let us know – vaguely, – what happened? What were those human emotions like that you were going through?

Shannon: Yeah. Heartbreak is not an easy thing to go through. I mean, for the first couple days or even a couple of weeks, I was crying a lot. I was sad because I had to let go of something. It was something that I really enjoyed having in my life. I think that was something that you know, you spend a lot of time with that person and you build all of these memories and now it’s gone.

And just the idea of not building any more new memories with them or, you know, in the same way that it was before, it really makes me feel sad. It kind of puts a sad, aching feeling that…

Martin: Definitely 

Shannon: … that I had to really go through. Almost, I would say, like grief. Letting go of anything is a little hard and that’s an understatement.

Martin: It’s true. It’s true. I was actually in New York a couple of weeks ago, and I have very vivid memories of past relationships in that city. And it’s true, you walk those same streets, you go through those same places, and you eat at the same locations and you’re like, man, I was at a different point in my life just a couple of years ago with somebody else.

And it’s so eye opening to think, during that time, when it didn’t work out in those previous relationships, you feel like those memories are sacred and that, you know, there’s certain locations that will only ever be associated with that person and that time in your life. And, these areas are spoken for. It’s tainted. You can’t go back to them anymore.

And it’s such an eye opening experience to go back. Now that I’m married with my wife, to go to these similar places and go to these similar locations and kind of re… I don’t want to say rewrite history, but write a new chapter in the same place. But definitely during the time as it relates to heartbreak, it definitely made me feel like that’s it. It’s all or nothing. It was supposed to be all of this, and now that it has ended, all of that has also ended for you.

Shannon: But I think, Martin, what I also realized during that heartbreak, too, is that you can be sad and also happy at the same time. I know that you can have both of those feelings at once. You know, I was sad that I had to let go of what was, but I was happy that no matter what happened, I was just following what God’s plan was for me.

And it’s pretty interesting to see that even though, what we went through was probably completely different, the emotions and feelings we had were essentially the same. You know, we were both sad at one point. And similarly… 

Martin: Yeah. 

Shannon: … there has to be, you know, a proper way to move forward from it.

Martin: Yeah, that’s true.

Shannon: And that’s, I think, something that we all need to learn from, too.

Martin: It’s true. And, you know, let’s ask for a little bit of help on this in terms of being able to move forward, because I know in my twenties I actually went to this minister often for some advice. And so we’re very happy to welcome today in our discussion, Brother Donald Pinnock. Welcome, Brother Donald, how are you today?

Brother Donnald Pinnock: I’m fine. Thank you so much, Martin, also, Shannon, for having me on the program today.

Shannon: And thank you for joining us, brother.

Brother Donald: You’re welcome. 

Martin: So, Brother Donald, I know, I know. Somewhere in the back of your mind, you remember an eighteen-year-old, nineteen, twenty-year-old conflicted Martin, coming to you with so many ridiculous issues or challenges. But I wanted to start by asking; What does the Bible say about heartbreak? Are there any biblical figures that experienced heartbreak? And does it talk about how they felt?

Brother Donald: You know, when it comes to the Holy Bible, there is mention of those who experienced different forms of heartbreak, because heartbreak is not only through a broken relationship. But even when it comes to extraordinary incidences that some of these biblical figures experienced, for example, when it came to an individual whose name is none other than Job. And when it came to Job, he experienced great heartache all in the space of 24 hours. He lost not only his livelihood or his livestock, but also, when it comes to his seven sons and three daughters, of course, it was very difficult – it is very difficult – to imagine the heartbreak that Job experienced. Less for the loss of his material wealth, but definitely more for losing his children, whom he loved so much. And that is why he uttered the following, in Job 3:24 to 26:

For sighing comes to me instead of food; my groans pour out like water. What I feared has come upon me;  what I dreaded has happened to me. I have no peace, no quietness; I have no rest, but only turmoil.”

[Job 3:24 New International Version] 

Brother Donald: I’m pretty sure when it comes to the lack of peace, the unrest, the turmoil – isn’t this what some have had their heart broken also experience? I’m not going to ask you, Martin or Shannon, if this was the case, but for sure there is a very, very difficult experience and feeling that one has to go through. It is as if there’s an empty void inside of us. We don’t want to do anything. We don’t want to go anywhere. Emotionally, we’re pretty down, we’re pretty shattered.

Martin: Absolutely, Brother Donald. And it’s really interesting to see that regardless of everybody’s unique experiences, it seems like these feelings are so familiar. And when the verse had mentioned, you know, “sighing comes to me instead of food,” man, it’s so profound. Because when you mentioned that empty void and you’re breathing and you’re sighing and it’s just emptiness, it’s your breath that is just going in and out of an empty heart at that time, and you just feel so shattered.

Brother Donald: And doesn’t it feel as if it’s never going to end? It’s like when time stands still. You know, sometimes, you may wake up early hours of the morning and you’re just lying in bed and you’re just staring blankly at a wall or a ceiling, and you’re trying to cope with the emotions and you just replaying, replaying, replaying all the events that took place, perhaps the happy times with that individual.

Martin: Right. 

Brother Donald: Definitely. When it comes to the tragic or too sad times, when it comes to the actual breakup that caused the heartbreak.

Martin: It’s funny that you mentioned that, Brother Donald. I distinctly remember, you know, when you replay all those happy times in your mind during heartbreak, I remember going to sleep and dreaming as if we had reconciled, dreaming as if we had found a way to get back together. And it seemed so vivid, it seemed so real. And then you wake up in the morning and you realize none of that happened. You’re still not together. You’re still separated. You’re not together anymore. And that realization is so painful.

Brother Donald: The hope is there. Perhaps, that’s the reason why you dreamt of it, but then the reality kicks in when you wake up.

Martin: It’s brutal. What about you, Shannon?

Shannon: I can’t help but think that maybe heartbreak is so painful for anyone who experiences it because they lose that hope of being together or that hope of what was and what they thoroughly enjoyed that no longer is? Now, I don’t know if I make any sense, but that’s… 

Brother Donald: No, you make a lot of sense. You make a lot of sense. Because if I can just jump in there, Shannon, it’s something that you’re familiar with and you enjoyed and all of a sudden it’s ripped away from you and it’s like you were unprepared.

Shannon: I think, Brother Donald, what really caught my attention was that it’s not really just, you know, something ending that can be a heartbreak. It can be a variety of things that is a heartbreak. And I think one of the things that’s different when it comes to heartbreak is what people do and how they cope after a heartbreak, or even a breakup. Martin what did you do to cope? I mean, you’re experienced!

Martin: Oh, man. [Laughs]

Martin: You know, it’s… a lot of it really is just coming to terms with the intense amount of love and care and emotion that you put into a relationship. Like, your body, I guess, like physically, biologically is producing all of these hormones and chemicals that relate to your emotional and mental state of being in love. And the process of all of that kind of going away is a real shock to your body. So, I guess, that empty feeling, that walking around aimlessly, all of that relates to you being at such an emotional and chemical high of being in love and then now it’s gone. 

And so, for me, in order for me to cope with that, I just found myself just sitting there listening to music and just staring off, and like, giving my body a chance to reset, you know? Not about the whole rebound situation, not about jumping from one thing to the next, but just giving my body and my mind and my heart and, most importantly, my faith, a chance to just assess and just be in the moment of heartbreak and just let the process, you know, play out the way it’s meant to.

Shannon: Right. Right. I remember, you know, when I was experiencing that really sad moment in my life, I surrounded myself with friends and family and people who were helping me, you know, go through the emotions of just dealing with it and coping with it. And, you know, one of the things that I looked to was a minister of the gospel.

You know, I asked how can I get through this? This is painful, this is sad, this is something that I don’t want to face. But you’re right, Martin. I did sit with it. I sat with it. I let grief, I guess you would say, or sadness, just feel it out and go through the motions.

So, you know, yes, I decided to go hang out with friends a lot, eat a lot, and force myself to start new activities. I actually started crocheting. 

Martin: Oh, wow

Shannon: And started making, like, bunnies, like, stuffed animal bunnies. And I would give them as presents to my friends and family. But despite all of that, I think, one thing that I kept turning back to is really prayer. And I know it’s sometimes hard to pray when you have a heartbreak because you don’t know what to say. You just want to cry. But I think that’s the perfect time to just cry and cry, cry to God.

Martin: Absolutely. 

Brother Donald: Yeah, it’s really strange. Because just last week someone contacted me and she was just beginning to go through the emotions of heartbreak. The one that she cared for actually just professed that he didn’t want to be with her anymore, so she was in the early stages, of course, a lot of tears, a lot of tears, a lot of pain.

And you know, exactly what you said, Shannon, when it comes to prayer, I mean, the most immediate step or action that one should take when in the midst of feeling so down, due to whatever is causing the heartbreak – including a failed relationship – is to really reach out to the only one who can really help. And of course, that is none other than God. But you know, what can that do for us at such times? We can read here, in Psalms 34:15, 17 to 19, the following:

The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous, And His ears are open to their cry; The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears, And delivers them from all their troubles. The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, And saves such as have a contrite spirit. Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all.  

[Psalms 34:15, 17-19 New King James Version]

Brother Donald: This is the reason why, when it comes to members of the Church Of Christ, they’re always being admonished to put into practice God’s words, because when they do so each and every day, this helps them to be counted among those who are righteous – obeying God’s commandments makes us righteous. And just as we read here, God is near to His servants who have a broken heart. Not only that, He’s prepared to deliver or save those who are afflicted, whether it be due to sickness or even those who are emotionally feeling down, when, for example, a relationship just did not work out.

That’s why – and you’re quite right in stating this, Shannon – it’s so important for one to draw near to God, to pray to God and to ask for His help during such very troubling times. We should also take care of ourselves, if you don’t mind me mentioning – Brother Martin, Shannon – even our affections, because such feelings can affect not only our emotional but even our physical health. As we can glean here in Proverbs 4:23:

Above all else, guard your affections. For they influence everything else in your life.

[Proverbs 4:23 The Living Bible] 

Brother Donald: This is the reason why, even though one may be going through extreme duress when it comes to issues that they are tackling in life, when it comes to those, again, who are suffering that broken heart because the suddenness of a relationship that just didn’t work out, we should not resort to desperate means or ways in an attempt to… to take away the hurt or the pain or to solve the problem. You know, sad to say, there are people who resort to abusing alcohol or drugs, or even when it comes to self-harm in an attempt to alleviate what they are feeling or going through in life. Again, we should place our hope and trust in God and at the same time, we should guard our heart.

Martin: Definitely. I think, you know, for those of us who have experienced that intense – almost traumatic – heartbreak, you know, it’s easy to be tempted to do certain things, so that you can feel a certain way. And because you’re at your lowest point, sometimes those tempting, easy way outs seem like the best solution or the best route to take to deal with heartbreak.

But for myself, I actually turned to journaling. I’d write every single day about how I felt. It was almost like a conversation that I was having with God through my journal. I would listen to positive music. I would try and binge a new show, you know, play some games with my friends and really just distract your mind. Because that can also… When you mentioned your affections, your affections come not only from your heart, but your mind allowing your heart to entertain it, right? And so, to shift your focus from things that are healthier, healthier methods of dealing with heartbreak is definitely so important versus finding a reason to stay in a consistent state of heartbreak.

Shannon: Yeah. I mean, I even recall there were moments where I would fight myself. Almost like, “I shouldn’t feel sad about this. I want to move forward.” But at the same time, I had to choose to allow myself to feel that way or to feel that way, and then move on from it, and understand that there might be days where I am sad, but it doesn’t mean it’s going to be forever.

And, you know, I think when you go through a heartbreak, you know, there is that broken trust that we have. So, you know, what about repairing that trust? I know when I went, or even other people who’ve gone through breakups, it’s hard to pick themselves back up and try again because they’re scared of being hurt again. And that’s a normal feeling, I think, everyone faces, you know, I want to know, how do we deal with that? Because for me, it’s a struggle I still face.

Martin: Yeah, that’s true. And I do know some of my friends, they haven’t tried to engage in, you know, romantic pursuits in a long time because they don’t want to get hurt again. They want to, you know, [stay] single forever! Right? Alone forever. That’s like the term, right? And they think it’s better [to be] alone, so that, you know, you don’t set yourself up for disappointment. There definitely were moments in my life where I felt that way, you know. And correct me if I’m wrong, Brother Donald, but Apostle Paul, right, was single and devoted his whole life to serving God. So, there’s always that example. Like, well, if Apostle Paul was happy and was single and was able to serve God and give his all, then if I’m meant to be that, then that’ll be me. But how do we get over that? For those who are hesitant to give love another try? Brother Donald.

Brother Donald: Yeah, well, first and foremost, you’re quite right. When it comes to the pain and the harm caused to a broken heart, I mean, when it comes to physical hurt, you know, it may scar over. It’s going to heal. But when it comes to harm, when it comes to the heart, it takes a long time to heal. And you’re quite right – nobody wants to feel that again. Once you’ve experienced it once, you just do not want to open your heart immediately to somebody who may show interest, just for them to also cause pain once again. But it all goes back to actually trusting God. Because, you know, if we place our hope and trust in God, then God has so many promises for His servants who do so. For example, in Jeremiah 29: 11:

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

[Jeremiah 29:11 New International Version]

Brother Donald: We should notice how the Lord our God – and when God makes a promise, it’s a solemn promise – He wants to fulfill it as long as we also fulfill His expectation. And one of those expectations of God is to place our trust in Him. God says, He knows the plans He has for us, plans to help us prosper and not to harm us, not to harm our heart. And also plans to give us a hope and our future. 

So this is why, when it comes to Church Of Christ members, they’re always being reminded, in every endeavor or pursuit in life – whether it be their career, when it comes through personal goals, and also when it comes to the hope that they’re going to meet Mr. or Mrs. Right – they have to rely on God because God knows best.

Shannon: I think that’s absolutely true in every way, it is true in every way that God knows what’s best for us. I know that even though what I experienced and what I went through was really painful, honestly, a little sad when I look back at it. But, you know, I did come out stronger and I came out learning something from it and gaining, a lesson that was also a blessing from God.

Martin: Absolutely. And I could say that after, my similar experiences in terms of heartbreak, I was able to find the one that God planned for me. You know, the title of this episode is “Unbroken Heart,”and it’s really about growing from grief, accepting that it didn’t work out, but also realizing that we’re a lot stronger than we give ourselves credit for.

You know, the heartbreak doesn’t define the rest of our life. The heartbreak doesn’t tell us, doesn’t define the rest of what God has in store for us. And you come out of these experiences feeling like, you know what, I’m a lot stronger than I give myself credit for because God was with me the whole time. You know, eventually, you do wake up one day and the heartbreak is gone! And it’s just proof that God has healed you, that enough time has passed and that your heart is a lot stronger for it.

Brother Donald: Yeah. When it comes to what you just mentioned, Brother Martin, that is the experience of many, many people, many members of the Church, also. It really boils down to being able to adapt when it comes to such experiences. But again, when it comes to our foundation, stone, our rock, it is, of course, God. We revolve around God when it comes to our life. And again, we mentioned earlier God has many promises for us. And even when it comes to finding the right person to share our life with, we can read in Proverbs 19:14: 

House and land or handed down from parents, but a congenial spouse comes straight from GOD.

[Proverbs 19:14 The Message] 

Brother Donald: When we say “congenial,” meaning to say, somebody that we have many matching attributes – perhaps the same taste, habits in ways, temperament, somebody who has a pleasant disposition, friendly, sociable, somebody who was really compatible and just right for us. You know, it’s very, very wrong for a person to base their intention and also base their hope that a certain individual is right for them just on physical appearance. 

It’s wrong to just leap into a relationship without really getting to know a person, and then expecting that you’re going to live happily ever after. It really takes time. It takes patience. And again, it takes God. God will be the one to introduce us to Mr. or Mrs. Right. So, let’s not be impulsive, for our dear friends who are listening, who are not yet in a relationship. And even those, when it comes to a relationship, let’s try to learn about the other person. Let’s not be carried away by our emotions. Let’s have that personal devotional prayer and ask God for His guidance, because God alone again can give the right spouse for us.

Martin: That’s so true, Brother Donald. I remember, before I met my now wife, I think [for] a good three or four months, I had a nightly devotional prayer just asking God, you know, when we get to the Closing Centennial Ceremony, hopefully I [will] find her. You know, I’ll do the best that I can on my end, you know, eat right and work out and brush my teeth every day and stay as active and helpful as I can within the Church Of Christ, and then when I get there, if it’s your will, God, then hopefully she’ll be there. And she was! But to your point, Brother Donald, even though, you know, there was a spark, there was some interest, we took a good five to six months of getting to know each other before we even progressed to the point where we acknowledged that we had romantic feelings, and that it was time for me to talk to her parents and request for permission to court her. So, it definitely is, you know, I don’t want to say it pays off, but definitely to what you were saying, take your time. Nobody’s rushing you. You’re not competing with anybody else, regardless of where your friends are in life. 

Brother Donald: Exactly. It’s not a race. 

Brother Donald / Martin: It’s not a race. 

Martin: There’s only one race, just the race of faith. There’s no race of having a kid as soon as possible. So, it’s really up to you. What about you, Shannon?

Shannon: I’ll definitely take my time finding the one! [Laughs] I’m in no rush! Definitely not in a rush, but I think just the, us talking it out and even looking back at how heartbroken I was and seeing how happy I am now and how much everything has changed, is really proof that God is really guiding my, you know, guiding my life. And, you know, He knows the plans, and I just have to trust it. And the more I trust God, I’m sure, I’m sure I’ll find the one – sooner or later. Maybe later. 

Brother Donald: If I can just add something, Brother Martin and Shannon…

Martin: Yeah. 

Brother Donald: … before we end. When it comes to meeting Mr. or Mrs. Right, it is not going to make you complete. In the sense, you are already complete as an individual. You are complete in many ways. It’s supplemental if we’re able to meet somebody. So, let us not drive ourselves crazy, for those listeners who are not yet in a relationship they may be seeking. Let us not get too, too anxious, but rather let us continue to trust that our Almighty God will be the One Who is going to introduce to us, or have us introduced to someone whom we can spend the rest of our life with, somebody who accepts us for who we are, and we in turn also accept them for who they are. And in so doing, we can receive those bountiful blessings that God has in store for those who give great importance to the institution of marriage. TAre trying their best to manage their marriage in accordance with His teachings. And this we can see when it comes to many, many many marriages, many couples inside the church.

Martin: Definitely, Brother Donald. And before we wrap up, I do want to say that in the many years, almost a decade plus that I’ve known you, Brother Donald, you’ve always been such a foundation in my spiritual growth. And for our listeners out there, having the ability to speak to your spiritual leader, to your worker or minister within the local or district, is invaluable.You know, having a shoulder to cry on, your friends to hear you out, your family to be there for you, all of that is super duper important for sure. But nothing beats being able to pray to God and receive spiritual guidance from your worker or minister. It was instrumental, Brother Donald, in my emotional growth and my spiritual growth. So, I do want to thank you for always being a pillar in helping me through my many instances of heartbreak during my twenties.

Brother Donald: Yeah, you’ve been a beacon of light in many ways, Brother Martin. I’m very proud of you, as I am when it comes to many members of the Church. And for those who I’ve known for many years, you are included. It’s just really marvelous to see how God’s hand has been in your life. You have met Mrs. Right. You have a wonderful wife in Sister Erika, and I’m very sure that the blessings will continuously flow to you and your loved one. And hopefully, God be willing, when it comes through a future family.

Martin: Thank you so much.

Brother Donald: Same for you. Same for you, Sister Shannon. I hope you also meet your Mr. Right.

Martin: In due time.

Shannon: In God’s time.

Martin: Absolutely. Absolutely. 

Brother Donald: There we go. 

Martin: I really, really want to thank you so much, our guest today, Brother Donald Pinnock. Thank you so much for joining us in our discussion today. I hope everybody who was listening had a great time and learned just as much as I did during this episode.

Shannon: I know I did. So thank you to our listeners. 

Martin: And thank you so much, Brother Donald, for joining us.

Brother Donald: It’s my pleasure. Thank you so much, Martin and Shannon.

Martin Zerrudo: That’s right. So, thank you to all of our listeners. We hope this episode was helpful to all of you. And actually, we want to hear what you thought of this episode and what you gained from it. So please leave us a comment on our Instagram at Heart Soul Conversations, because we definitely want to hear from you.

That’s it for us today. Hope we were able to help and hope you’re able to listen with all your Heart And Soul. Take care.

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: So let’s set the stage. You like them. They like you. You’re both members of the Church Of Christ and are of age to start the courting process. What do you do? Are things moving too fast? Too slow? Do things feel easy? And is the relationship progressing naturally? Or does it feel a little forced? What do your friends think? What does your family think? Is God leading you into a relationship? Or is He trying to show you some red flags? 

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin: Hello, everyone, hope we’re finding you well, and that you and your family continue to be safe and healthy at this time. Today, we’ll be talking about whether God is leading you into a relationship or if you’re seeing something that maybe isn’t there. A lot of our listeners in the past have reached out and asked us to talk about the one. And we definitely have, but today we’ll be focusing more on being aware of whether or not they aren’t the one. Joining us today is Brother Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hi, Brother Donald, how are you today?

Brother Donald Pinnock: Not too bad, Brother Martin. And thank you for having me on the program.

Martin: We always love having you. So we went online and found a couple things people point to as red flags for when you may be forcing a relationship with someone. And here they are. The first one is you talk about them like they’re already your boyfriend or girlfriend, even though you aren’t. Number two, you bend over backwards for them and they never reciprocate. Number three, you defend your relationship to your friends who express concerns. Number four, you make up excuses for why they never call you or text you back right away. And lastly, you tell yourself that they’re going to want a relationship eventually, and that they will change even though they show no signs of it. So Brother Donald, why are so many youth today finding themselves in this predicament where they may be forcing a relationship that isn’t there?

Brother Donald: Well, Brother Martin, there’s so many reasons. For example, there are those who, due to peer pressure, they feel compelled to have a relationship, whether it be an actual one, or, as you mentioned an imagined one, since most of their friends already have a boyfriend or girlfriend. Others may really want to have a meaningful relationship with someone. However, they’re just too fearful of approaching that individual. Of course, they’re afraid of rejection. Thus, they imagine or just assume that the other person has the same feelings for them. And they leave it at that. On the part of the females or as we call sisters in the Church, they may feel attracted to a brother, but in fear of being labeled as too forthcoming or just too aggressive, they resort to telling themselves that the individual they have a crush on has the same feelings or sentiment for them. In order to avoid creating such a scenario, however, it is very important that members of the Church keep in mind the following tenet or teaching of the Bible. And we can read the following in Proverbs 19:14:

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.

[Proverbs 19:14 New International Version] 

Church Of Christ members then are taught to ask God for everything that they need, including when it comes to a suitable or prudent wife, and in fact, husband for that matter. So in order to avoid creating an awkward circumstance, due to a perceived interest of a brother or sister of the faith, and of course, vice versa, they should conduct what is called a devotional prayer, by which they can ask God to clearly show unto them who would eventually be an appropriate spouse.

Martin: Is it different for men than it is for women? You know, of course, times are changing, expectations in society are shifting and certain traditions may have changed, but as members of the Church Of Christ, who should take charge in asserting feelings and making intentions known, and what happens if things don’t work out?

Brother Donald: That’s a very good series of questions, Brother Martin. As we know in society, normally, it would be the male who would approach the female to express his intent. However, we can see shifting social norms. And that is why now if a female is attracted to a male, she may take the initiative to express her feelings to him. In the Church it is most likely that the male or the brother would express his intent to the sister to establish a relationship. But even during those initial stages, the following Bible teaching is taken into account. In Ephesians 6:2-3 it states: 

“Respect your father and mother” is the first commandment that has a promise added: “so that all may go well with you, and you may live a long time in the land.”

[Ephesians 6:2-3 Today’s English Version]

To show proper respect to the parents, then, male and female members of the Church, who feel mutually compelled to get to know each other better, would approach their respective parents to ask permission first. Considering that the husband is the head of the wife, and we can read that in Ephesians 5:23,  it would be the brother who would first approach the parents of the sister, whom he intends to court, to ask permission. But he, along with the sister, they should have a righteous purpose, Brother Martin, when it comes to courting one another, as we can glean from the following citation: 2 Timothy 2:22: 

Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

[2 Timothy 2:22 New King James Version]

This is why Church members are not supposed to date just for the sake of dating, or to pursue satisfying youthful lust. That is why, especially on the part of the brother, he should conduct himself in the following manner. Psalm 119:9:

How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word.

[Psalm 119:9 New International Version]

The brothers should have a pure intent when it comes to courting a sister and not intend to take any undue advantage of her. The couple should treat each other respectfully, by both of them heeding the teachings of God when it comes to their relationship. Now, if I can add, Brother Martin, if in spite of the best and the purest intentions, that the brother and the sister find that they are incompatible, well, they should mutually agree to stop seeing each other and inform the respective parents of their decision. Now, of course, depending on the amount of time invested during courting, there will be a certain level of sadness and even heartbreak may be experienced at least by one, if not both the male and female or the brother and the sister. Of course, conversing with family and friends would definitely aid in mending a broken heart. All the more, however, we should pray to God, because He’s more than capable, of course, of doing the following for us. As we can read here in Psalm 34:15,17-19 New International Version:

The eyes of the LORD are on the righteous and his ears are attentive to their cry; … The righteous cry out, and the LORD hears them; he delivers them from all their troubles. The LORD is close to the brokenhearted and saves those who are crushed in spirit. The righteous person may have many troubles, but the LORD delivers him from them all;

[Psalms 34:15, 17-19 New International Version]

So it is very clear, Brother Martin, that the Lord our God is more than capable to help one heal after experiencing the emotional pain of a romantic breakup.

Martin: So ultimately, Brother Donald, how can we determine if God doesn’t want us to be with someone?

Brother Donald: Well, we mentioned earlier the importance of conducting that devotional prayer, asking God to guide us to who would be a suitable spouse for us. It is possible that we could meet a brother or sister in the Church, but if during their getting to know each other, or their courting, there are repeated issues, arguments, misunderstandings, and a general disharmony, then it should be fairly obvious that the couple are incompatible. Again, it would be best for both parties to mutually part ways and continue to do their part in preserving what we call as the love of the brotherhood in spite of not being connected romantically.

Martin: Right. I remember, Brother Donald, you know, when I was younger, I was in a relationship and it didn’t work out and of course I was broken-hearted, was very sad and you know, you feel like oh man the world’s coming to an end because this person who I cared about so much who, you know, cared about me—I guess we don’t have a future together. And in my mindset at that time in my late teens, it felt so final, it felt like this is it. Never gonna find love again. I’m gonna be alone forever because it didn’t work out with this one person. And then you know, fast forward to today. That person is happily married. I’m happily married, very cordial when we see each other at the chapel. And it just goes to show exactly what you’re talking about that the focus is on, you know, really trying to pray and read about what God is showing you. And if it doesn’t work out, to maintain that love for the brotherhood that’s so important. And I’m happy to be able to see that it, you know, it truly does pan out so long as you put your faith and trust in God, even if the relationship doesn’t end up moving forward.

Brother Donald: Well, you know, when it comes to, especially experiencing what we imagine as love in our teenage years or young adulthood, and it doesn’t work out? Well, we can really say that the emotional impact is very hurting for many people.  It takes quite some time in order to recover. It feels as if, in the midst of that breakup, as if the world is just imploding upon oneself. And it really takes some time to emotionally heal, and get on with life. But like you said, especially through prayer and trusting in God, then He’ll help us to heal. We can get along, we learned from our experience, and God be willing just like what happened to you and others, they eventually meet Mr. or Mrs. Right. And it is really to happily live ever after. It doesn’t mean to say of course, there’s no challenges. When it comes to marriage and living in this world there’ll always be challenges. But you know, there’s the right chemistry, and we still continue to trust God when we’re married to our spouse, and God is there to help us over those, those rough patches.

Martin: Definitely. Now that we know how to read some of those warning signs or red flags, Brother Donald, how do we know, you know, conversely, how do we know if God wants you to be with someone? Well, how do we know that, hey, this is your sign right here, they’re right in front of you, they’re standing in front of you ready to go?

Brother Donald: Well, we won’t see a burning bush, for example. In fact, that would be ideal, but being members of the Church Of Christ, it is our faith that God is going to guide us in a way that we should go or the path that we should take in our life. In fact, we can read that in Psalm 31:1 ,3:

I come to you, LORD, for protection; never let me be defeated. You are a righteous God; save me, I pray! … You are my refuge and defense; guide me and lead me as you have promised.

[Psalm 31:1, 3 Today’s English Version]

So again, it shows the importance of prayer, Brother Martin, because through prayer, we can ask God to guide us in every aspect of our life, not just when it comes to our education, including when it comes to the one whom we could be potentially spending the rest of our life together. If there’s a chemistry and compatibility between the two, if they for example, find an easiness being together. And these and other feelings, they don’t dissipate, but rather they continue to grow even more prominent through the passage of time, then these are very strong indications that we have met the one for us. That is why it is imperative that a couple know each other well. And this can only happen through expending a significant amount of time and effort when it comes to the relationship. In the Church, our romantic relationship, of course, is with the intent that God be willing it will lead to marriage. And we know that marriage is a lifelong commitment. That is why great care and patience has to be taken to avoid a greater and lasting heartbreak of getting married just for the sake of it. Just because for example, a sister feels her biological clock is ticking or a brother, he sees that his peers are already married, so he needs to get married, and a brother or sister they meet one another and perhaps just after a few months are already talking about marriage, when in truth, they don’t really know each other well enough. And that’s why it cannot be overstressed the importance of really getting to know an individual well virtually on all levels in order for us to really find out if we have that strong basis to be able to commit to one another. And again, this is for a lifetime. So, great care, again, patience has to be taken to avoid a greater and lasting heartbreak of getting married just for the sake of it. And then through the passage of time we find out that we’re going to be struggling to commit to that commandment of God that when it comes to married couples, they should remain joined together till death do they part.

Martin: Now when someone says, Brother Donald, if God wants you to be with someone, He will make it happen. How does a member of the Church Of Christ understand that, if He wants it to happen, it’ll happen?

Brother Donald: Well, the Lord our God wants the very best for His chosen people. In Jeremiah 29:11, God Himself makes known through the prophet:

For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the LORD, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.

[Jeremiah 29:11 New International Version]

Because of this, when it comes to us members of the Church Of Christ, we really have to entrust ourselves to God, because we understand according to the many teachings, and also most especially when it comes to the fulfillment of many prophecies that we belong to God. And when God says, I know the plans I have for you, the you there being referred to are His people. And what, again, are the plans of God? He says, “Plans to prosper you, and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future.” This is the very reason why when it comes to members of the Church Of Christ, they’re not going to rely upon their so-called abilities or their intelligence, or their so-called wisdom that they may have gained through education. They’re not going to place their wholehearted hope and trust when it comes to their fellow men. Even if when it comes to those connections or people they know they are in positions of influence and power, a member of the Church Of Christ is going to place their wholehearted hope and trust in the power and the ability of the One who created them: they’re going to place it in God. That is why when it comes to finding the most suitable partner, as a spouse for us, again, that is the very reason why we should place our trust in God and we should pray unto Him, and God in turn is going to steer the course of our life.

Martin: We want to thank you so much, Brother Donald, for that spiritual guidance and advice for those wonderful verses and really putting into context some of these questions that our listeners have. For our audience members out there, take the time to really reflect on the things that we heard today and try and see, really see: what is God trying to tell you? Is this something that He wants you to be in? Or is it not? And at the end of the day, of course, based off of the verses, trusting in God will always lead us to the right answer. So thank you, again, so much, Brother Donald, for joining us today. We always appreciate your wonderful advice.

Brother Donald: Well, thank you so much, Brother Martin, I truly enjoy myself on this program, discussing important matters like this with you. And again, with God’s mercy maybe when it comes to our listeners, especially those who are in this stage of their life, that they are looking for that significant other, that they will abide by these decrees or these tenets of the Lord our God. And again, you know, don’t rush into marriage, because it is a lifetime commitment. Better if, for example, during the courting period of a relationship, and that there are so many upheavals and it really points that, you know, there is a strong incompatibility there, even though it may be painful, better the pain that will be for a short period of time, instead of the pain of getting married because we insisted upon it, but then having to face that pain until as we read earlier, death do us part. So again, let’s trust God, follow His decrees, and God is the One who’s going to guide us.

Martin: That’s fantastic. Thank you so much for that, Brother Donald. To our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart and Soul. That’s it from us today. We hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: Getting over a breakup isn’t easy. It can be a painful, sad and prolonged period of self-reflection. Many turn to friends, family and social media to find solace in their grief. Now when someone we care about, someone we love leaves, we’re left with so many questions. What if the answer to these questions—and about how to heal after a breakup, how to overcome a broken heart—what if they could be found in Bible verses?

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin Zerrudo: Last year, I was able to talk to a listener, let’s call her Jaya. Jaya is in her late 20s and lives in Anaheim, California. And at the time of our conversation, Jaya and her boyfriend, we’ll call him Blake, were very much in love.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

He was always someone that I was able to talk to really well, because we had a lot of common interests at the same time. We didn’t really have any problems like butting heads about things. We were always able to talk about anything.

Martin: While some might find this rare, it’s because they’ve known each other for years and shared a common interest.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

We’ve actually known each other for a really long time. We’ve known each other for maybe like over a decade. We’ve always been really, really good friends. Yeah, we were really good friends. We fed off of each other really well. Simple things like you know, playing video games together. That was something we always did. That was something we always enjoyed.

Martin: Jaya actually had feelings for Blake, but he didn’t feel the same at the time. Fast forward to now, when Blake confessed his feelings for Jaya, she had a funny way of responding.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Yeah, 10 years ago, he rejected me. I remember exactly what he said to me 10 years ago. I kinda remember word for word, what he said to me. He said, like, “Oh, well, this is awkward.” I was like I said, and so, you know, when it happened again, like when he came around, and he was saying [he had feelings for me] Yeah, I jokingly, like [replied] well, this is awkward.

Martin: Like the rest of the world, when the pandemic happened, their relationship would hit a brick wall, as their ability to spend time with each other was severely impacted. 

[Heart & Soul Listener]

We had ended up not seeing each other, but we were definitely a lot more sensitive. When we weren’t communicating, it was hurting us more. Things got really messy.

Martin: They would have a big fight, their first in their relationship. And then Blake would send a text message that changed everything.

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Just had like our first I don’t know if I call it a fight, but it was really the moment things really fell apart.

Martin: They wouldn’t talk for three months. 

[Heart & Soul Listener]

Yeah, I think we’re done. That’s all that was said. 

Martin: Joining us now is Brother Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel of the Church Of Christ. Brother Donald, thank you so much for joining us today. How are you?

Brother Donald Pinnock: Oh, I’m not too bad. Thank you, Brother Martin, for having me.

Martin: Thank you for joining us again, trusting God after a breakup, Brother Donald, is what we all should do. But help our listeners put that into context. What does the Bible exactly say about dealing with a broken heart?

Brother Donald: Well, first of all, Brother Martin, as we know, having one’s heart emotionally broken, is of course very, very painful. The time it takes to mend a broken heart varies from person to person. But if there is a common experience, it is that a feeling even physically ill at the deepest point of exasperation. In order to aid in the healing of a broken heart, Church Of Christ members are reminded of the following in Psalms 34:18 it states:

The LORD is near to those who have a broken heart, And saves such as have a contrite spirit. 

[Psalm 34:18 New King James Version]

So members of the Church Of Christ are reminded to turn to God at all times. But most especially when they feel down, despondent or brokenhearted, because as the Bible teaches, God is near to His servants, whether it is because of their disappointment in failed aspirations, or even when it comes to a relationship, that in spite of their best efforts, it just didn’t work out. And of course, the most ideal way of turning to God is through prayer. And those who do so with a contrite or sincere spirit, the Bible teaches that God will hear and God will save them. Just how God will save those who are downtrodden and hurting emotionally is explained here in I Peter 5:6-7: 

Humble yourselves, therefore, under God’s mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you. 

[I Peter 5:6-7: New International Version]

Now, when it comes to our Almighty God, He may utilize instruments in uplifting us from the doldrums we find ourselves in. But He is the ultimate reason why we will be able to emerge from such a precipice and be able to get on with our lives with optimism. And that’s important.

Martin: So while we are not immune to heartbreak, what do members of the INC or Iglesia Ni Cristo, have that can help them during such a period of pain and sadness?

Brother Donald:  Brother Martin it’s none other than our faith in God. And when we say faith meaning to say we place all our hope, and also our confidence in what He can do for us, because we trust that God will never abandon His chosen people, as we can read in Isaiah 63:8-9. All the more this gives us confidence. And allow me to quote:

The LORD said, “They are my people; they will not deceive me.” And so he saved them from all their suffering. It was not an angel, but the LORD himself who saved them. In his love and compassion he rescued them. He had always taken care of them in the past,
[Isaiah 63:8-9 Today’s English Version]

That saving grace of God has been experienced many times by Church Of Christ members throughout their life, not just from physical dangers or perils. But even when it comes to having one’s spirit uplifted, after experiencing emotional upheavals, including heartbreak because of a failed relationship.

Martin: When it comes to those failed relationships, you know, sometimes you just can’t avoid them, no matter how hard we hope that they’re going to work out. So what advice do you have, Brother Donald, for those who have recently gotten their heart broken? Why should they hold on to hope when, at this point in their life, they feel kind of hopeless?

Brother Donald: There’s no doubt whatsoever that God cares so much for those who are recognized as His people or His children. And of course, He wants the very best for them in their life. That is why for those who may have experienced heartbreak, it could be that God is actually saving them from the more severe heartbreak of, for example, getting married to someone who in the initial stages of courting may have appeared to be that ideal partner, but through the passage of time and getting to know them, actually, they are not truly compatible. 

We may feel emotional pain for a period of time, but not the prolonged pain of being married to someone whom we eventually find to be unbearable or impossible to live with. And of course, we would have God to thank for that. On the other hand, perhaps the parting of ways of those who were courting was just a test, it was just a trial to determine the level of their love and affection for one another, that if both parties truly love one another, well, they would reconcile, they could move on and their bond would be even stronger. 

But still, we can’t gamble when it comes to our married future, but rather, we should follow what the Bible teaches here in Proverbs 19:14:

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD. 

[Proverbs 19:14 New International Version]

Brother Martin, you know, physical and emotional compatibility, it’s important to a successful relationship. I mean, you have to feel some kind of attraction to another, is it not? But we should not base our decision when it comes to choosing a spouse on our personal assessment or not just when it comes to the physical appearance. Because love itself is not just skin deep. That is the reason why we should ask God perhaps through a devotional prayer, to grant us a prudent or suitable spouse.

This is what so many Church Of Christ members have done and that is why it’s no surprise that marriages in the Church, they last until the proverbial words death do they part. May those who are not yet married, but are endeavoring to do so eventually experience the joy of a lasting marriage, a marriage that was sanctioned by God, a marriage between a man and a woman, members of the  Church who truly adhere to the teachings of our Father in heaven, and they can feel that they are being matched by the Lord our God, and because of this, their marriage would indeed be a joyful and lasting one. Of course, once they are married the importance of living in accordance with the tenets or the statutes of our Father in Heaven, the responsibilities of the husband to the wife, vice versa, the wife to the husband, and if they’re going to be blessed with children, how they should rear those children. If we are going to utilize wisely, the teachings of the Lord our God in every aspect of our life, including when it comes to married life, then we are going to be blessed.

Martin: Thank you so much for those wonderful verses. Whatever stage you may be in looking for love, praying for love, being in love, may be falling out of love and being heartbroken. It’s refreshing, inspiring, and it does fill us with hope to know that regardless of whatever stage you may be in romantically, that God is with you every step of the way. Now, just to close it off by Brother Donald, is it different now, because there’s a pandemic, because people are at home, maybe we’re all a little bit more on edge when it comes to dealing with a broken heart? How does somebody who’s isolated at home overcome all of this? Because it’s such a different time to be handling these kinds of emotions. 

Brother Donald: It’s a really good question, Brother Martin, because of course, just being virtually isolated in one’s abode, by themselves under normal circumstances. I mean, there’s just so much pressure, emotionally, mentally. But if you’re going to add that broken heart scenario, because of a failed relationship, but of course, it compounds everything. Definitely, again, we need to believe in the power of prayer. 

But at the same time, even though physically we may be isolated, we can utilize different means of communication, just to reach out to our friends, those who are close unto us just to have a conversation. So if we keep our friends and loved ones in the loop, we try our best to communicate with them, then they can also be God’s instruments in order to help alleviate those adverse feelings that we may be going through because of isolation plus broken-heartedness due to a relationship that just didn’t work out. 

And at the same time, I can’t help but reiterate this point, that when it comes to a young couple who may be courting, but then the relationship just did not work out being members of the Church, we understand that marriage is a lifetime commitment. So it may sound harsh, but at the same time, you know, if there’s no real compatibility, there’s just too many differences when it comes to our characteristics. And that relationship does not work out. Well, when it comes to that pain that we may go through due to a breakup, and we mentioned it earlier, it’s much better than having a lasting pain of having to live with somebody whom there really is not that two-way love, or even to the point that you may separate abodes, but yet you cannot marry again because you know, we stand when it comes to the teachings of God that marriage is a lifetime commitment. That kind of pain is avoided, if before we got married, again, the Lord our God allowed us to really see who our to be spouse, what their true identities and their true characteristics are. 

And perhaps God is showing unto us well, even though they are not a bad person, per se, but when it comes to having that intimate and that lasting relationship in marriage, then perhaps it’s best if you do not continue. So again, it shows the importance of just placing our trust, our hope, and the guidance of God through prayer. We ask God for a suitable spouse, we meet somebody, it’s not compatible. That’s not the suitable spouse that God has in mind for us.

Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Donald, hearing those words, as someone myself who is now married, it’s so true to trust the process, trust your prayers, and the one that you’re meant to be with is definitely the one you’ll end up with, because they came from God. So thank you so much for that, Brother Donald, thank you so much for joining us today.

Brother Donald: And thank you so much for having me, Brother Martin it was a pleasure.

Martin: As always Brother Donald. To our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things heart and soul. Oh, and I recently reached out to Jaya to see how she’s doing. And she tells us that she and Blake have resolved their issues. I guess they trusted the process because with God’s help they were able to give it another try. 

Brother Donald: Oh, that’s fantastic news. 

Martin: There’s hope for us all. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to connect, hope we were able to help and hope you’ll join us next time. Ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: Is the next step for you and your significant other marriage? Is it something you’ve already talked about planning for? Is that a topic you’re currently avoiding? What should you know before popping the question and how can you make sure that you end up having a successful marriage? 

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation.

[Show open]

Martin: Hello, everyone, hope you’re doing well and are safe at home. Today, our topic is focused on helping our listeners gain a better understanding on what to expect when getting married and what to do to make sure their marriage can be happy and successful. At the end of the day, we want to give you as much information and guidance before you commit to one of the most important decisions of your lives. And joining me today to help us with that is Brother Felmar Serreno, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Brother Felmar is a husband and father of two and is also the minister on the brand new Happy Life podcast, a podcast where newlyweds can get some tips on having a successful marriage. Hi, Brother Felmar, how are you today?

Brother Felmar: Hello, Martin, and to the Heart & Soul team and to everyone who’s tuning in. I’m doing well, Martin, thank you for asking. And I just like to say it’s a great pleasure for me to be here on Heart & Soul.

Martin: Thank you so much, Brother Felmar. And thank you for taking the time to help us with such an important topic that is pivotal and is an important topic for many of our young adult listeners. So, when it comes to deciding when a couple in the Church Of Christ should marry, what are some of the questions that they should be asking themselves?

Brother Felmar: To answer that, let’s first be reminded that a true spouse is from God. This is proven to us by the Bible in Proverbs 19: 14 we’ll quote from the New Revised Standard Version: 

Houses and wealth are inherited from parents, but a prudent wife is from the LORD.

[Proverbs 19:14 New Revised Standard Version] 

So based on this, one of the very important questions to ask oneself prior to getting married is, is this person that I am courting, or is courting me the answer to my prayers? Is this person the blessing to me from God? 

Another important question to ask oneself prior to getting married is, am I ready for the blessing like what we heard from the Holy Scriptures, house and wealth are inherited from parents, but house and wealth or other possessions are not just things you just receive? Right? You need to take care of them. There are responsibilities that need to be fulfilled. So, so much more when it comes to marriage. 

According to the Bible, in God’s design of marriage, which is the true and right design, there are responsibilities for the husband, and there are responsibilities for the wife, and there are also shared responsibilities. That’s why on the Happy Life podcast, we discuss things like making adjustments, expectations, communication as a married couple for members in the Church Of Christ who are at the courtship stage. Be sure to ask yourselves even before getting engaged. Are you ready for the blessing and the responsibilities that come with marriage? It’s important to consider that you have feelings for each other. But it’s also important to consider how compatible you are with one another, especially when it comes to working together and shouldering and fulfilling the responsibilities that come with marriage. 

It’s important to ask too, if you are ready, financially, mentally and above all, are you ready spiritually? So I hope, Martin, that answers your question regarding some of the things that others ought to be asking themselves before getting married.

Martin: Of course, we want to be able to ask those questions so that it helps us prepare, like you mentioned financially, mentally, and above all spiritually. But some might say, Well, I know some successful couples who weren’t 100% ready financially, and they worked out. Maybe they rushed into it too quickly, but it worked out. What would be our answer to those kinds of scenarios?

Brother Felmar: Well, going back to the Holy Scriptures, to the verse that we just read in Proverbs 19:14, the truth is clear. A prudent wife is from the Lord. So a true spouse will come from the Lord God. So if it is the will of God that He will grant to an individual the true spouse, the answer to that individual’s prayer, and maybe it would not necessarily fit the timeline, so to say, when it comes to the norm, right, on how others have gotten married, but that is the will of God for that particular couple. So by God’s grace and mercy, things will fall into place. 

However, that doesn’t mean that we should rush into marriage. Based on the Holy Scriptures, marriage is sacred, so we ought to be careful, and we ought to make the necessary preparations so that we will be able not only to receive the blessing, but to continue to take care of the blessing of marriage that comes from the Lord God,

Martin: Very true, Brother Felmar, and I guess it just all the more indicates why the decision to get married in the INC is not one we take lightly. So how does one know when they’re ready to make an important decision? What if they feel like okay I may have all my ducks in a row, financially ready, I think God is answering my prayer. How do they know it’s time to make that important decision?

Brother Felmar: Well, I think if those who are currently in courtship can say, “Yes, we care for each other.” So those feelings are there. But they can also say “Yes, we have proven ourselves to be compatible with one another.” Because even though emotionally, you know, they care for each other, they feel deeply about each other. But there are moments that arise where the compatibility is in question, a lot of times they’re fighting. Well, that can’t be a good sign. So that’s something that should be considered. What else? Again, we should also be able to say, “Yes, we are ready financially.” That is something that is important, because according to the Holy Scriptures, we ought to be able to provide for our household. What else should be considered? That we can say “Yes, we are also mentally ready. We are capable of making mature and responsible decisions. But above all, we are ready spiritually.” A man and woman who are about to make that decision to go into marriage must make sure that they are ready spiritually, both are spiritually mature. 

So if we can say yes to all of these questions, then I’d say you’re pretty ready. I’d say, What are you waiting for? Assuming of course, you’re both of legal age. In addition to that, Martin, here’s a Bible verse, a teaching from the Holy Scriptures, that should also be considered here in the book of Proverbs 3:5-6 in the New King James Version: 

Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He shall direct your paths.

[Proverbs 3:5-6 New King James Version]

If you trust in the Lord with all your heart, if you acknowledge God, if you pray to Him regularly, the Bible says, “He shall direct your paths.” And that has been the experience of many members in the Church Of Christ, when we were not yet ready for marriage, although maybe we wanted to get married, but God, who knows us better than we know ourselves, He knew that we were not yet ready. God directed us. And when the time was right, God directed us again. But to avail of this wonderful and precise direction from God, it is crucial that we do trust in God with all of our heart, and that we are prayerful.

Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. As someone who has been married for a couple of years now, can you describe to our listeners, maybe for those who are not members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo, Church Of Christ, the beauty and the splendor that is a blessed marriage within the Church Of Christ. Can you describe to our audience what that is like?

Brother Felmar: You know, it’s very hard to put into words. It’s very hard to put into words. The Bible teaches us that when we put God first, when we make God our happiness, He will give us our heart’s desire. And that’s why I mentioned earlier, how wonderful it is to have that direction, that precise direction from God, because only the Almighty God knows us better than we know ourselves. He knows exactly who the right match will be for us. There are many things we cannot foresee going into marriage. Although you know, with what we can see things may look like they align. But there are also things we cannot see, because we are human beings, we are limited with what we know and what we can foresee. We don’t know what will happen five years from now, 10 years from now. Maybe in courtship, the chemistry is there. But will the chemistry still be there when challenges come, when you may lose your livelihood, or when your spouse is ill? But God knows those things. So again, only the Almighty God knows who the exact match will be for us, who will be our true partner in life and will compliment us on all levels, and above all, will be with us in our services to God. In worshipping Him and putting our faith in Him and in praying to Him, you know, until we make it to our salvation. 

So having said that, to all of our listeners and, and to our friends who are not members of the Iglesia Ni Cristo or the Church Of Christ, the priority would be God. Know God first, make the Almighty God our happiness, understand His teachings and all of his commandments that we must fulfill so that we prove to God He is our happiness. And that’s why we always invite our friends and loved ones to know more about the Church Of Christ. Of course, we’re so happy when we have our friends and loved ones who are with us in the Church Of Christ, but really that invitation is for you. It’s for our friends, so that they will be able to experience how wonderful it is to have the true God and to receive His blessings. And a very important and crucial blessing in life is true marriage that comes from God.

Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar. And as you as a husband, how does that make you feel that that’s a blessing that you’ve been given in life? 

Brother Felmar: It’s humbling that you know, like, the Bible says, when God is your happiness, He will give you your heart’s desire. So those qualities that I hoped for and prayed for, you know, when I was still single and praying for a spouse who not only would be my partner in life, but my partner in the holy ministry, so it is humbling that God, you know, He gave me really like what the Bible says, one’s heart’s desire. I don’t want it to seem like you know, I’m making my wife sound like she’s, you know, this perfect woman. There’s no such thing as a perfect man or woman, right? So, but really, you know, there’s the perfect one for you. 

Martin: So thank you so much, Brother Felmar, for those wonderful verses and the spiritual advice. For our listeners who are considering getting married, and especially for our listeners who are newlyweds, we have a brand new podcast we recently launched and I’d love to share it with you. It’s called Happy Life, where you’ll have none other than Brother Felmar and Host Sister Myrtle Alegado to help provide Bible-based advice and guidance to newlyweds in the INC as they begin their new journey together. Brother Felmar, what can listeners look forward to when they tune in to Happy Life?

Brother Felmar:  So you have to listen to each episode from start to finish, so that you can come away with the complete package that each episode brings, which includes reliable and relevant marriage tips from real life experiences of newlyweds who guest on the show. More importantly, Bible-based teachings, which are the foundation for a happy and enduring marriage. These teachings can be applied to resolving conflicts that may arise in marriage, as well as preventing future conflicts, especially serious ones that could severely harm a marriage. Our warmhearted and spirited host, Myrtle Alegado, does a wonderful job of keeping the discussion meaningful, focused on the topic at hand, and we have fun too. So lots to look forward to on Happy Life.

Martin: I believe you also have an Instagram account.

Brother Felmar: We do. Yes. Thank you for mentioning that, Martin. So yes, please, if everyone tuning in could follow us on Instagram, subscribe on Apple podcast, Google podcast. And of course you can find us as well on our website incmedia.org.

Martin: Thank you so much for that, Brother Felmar, thank you so much for joining us for providing that wonderful insight. Please, for all of our listeners continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram,  #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. Thank you so much, Brother Felmar, for joining us. We really appreciate it.

Brother Felmar: All praises be to God and thank you as well, Martin, and to the Heart & Soul team.

Martin: Thank you so much, this your first time hopefully not the last. We look forward to it in the future. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to help, hope we were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take care.

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: When you reflect on the meaning of your own life, the struggles you’ve gone through, how does it make you feel? Strong for having gone through it? Sad for having to still deal with it? What does self-reflection really mean in the grand scheme of things? And more importantly, what do you think God is trying to tell you? Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation. 

[Show open]

Martin: Hello, everyone, hope we’re finding you well, and that you and your family continue to be safe and healthy at this time. When talking about the importance of self-reflection. It’s an area that a lot of people can use some help with. According to some studies, the self help industry will be worth over $13 billion in 2022. This translates to millions of different methods out there meant to help us with how to reflect or how to get through the hardest times in our life. We recently asked on our Instagram @incmedianews using #heartandsoulconversations, what kind of struggles in life have you gone through, and here’s what you had to say.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Crippling levels of undiagnosed clinical depression, anxiety and migraines. I thought that was simply how people lived, and assumed that it was normal. I wasn’t happy most of the time, all the way up through high school.

Being in a family that moves from one place to another, we’re trained that our lives change every two years. And so we must learn to adapt. As the new kid in town all the time I had to adjust. I did my best to excel my classes that I got bullied for being included in the honor roll. Even teachers and faculty staff bullied me, even parents who lived near us spread rumors about me. Growing up being the unreasonably disliked kid was tough.

I would say loneliness, though there are those times when I felt the heaviness of being lonely, or feeling like I don’t have anybody there for me when I’m going through a hard time. And just feeling like I don’t have any friends.

Martin: According to betterhelp.com three of the most common reasons why people give up on life are mental health issues, the feeling of not fitting in, and loneliness. And if you listen back to those clips that we just played, those listeners were going through exactly those things. So why didn’t they give up? Well, we asked them, Why didn’t those struggles break your will? 

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

What kept me going through day to day and dark nights were singing hymns and praying to God.

It was traumatic. But it was also the time that I learned how faith works.

When I feel like I’m on the brink of giving up, God provides a light of hope. And to know good things and good people are out there. I just have to keep praying and always have that sense of hope.

Martin: For some of our listeners, when it came to struggles, it surprised them how hard it would hurt, especially when it came from a place that they least expected.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Being hit hard with my anxiety due to finding out the people I thought were my friends weren’t really treating me as one behind my back. I didn’t expect it to affect me to that extent. But it really shook my mental state at that time. I felt alone and my anxiety made me feel like I had no one to trust anymore. Because despite having the purest of intentions, people will still find something to pick on about you.

Martin: Thankfully, as members of the Church Of Christ, when we take the time to reflect we have the ability to combine our self-reflection and introspection with our faith.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

But I am so glad I got through that. Crying out everything to Him during my nightly devotional prayers really helped me get through that tough part. And I can honestly say that, despite it being a painful experience, it woke me up to the realities of life. And I learned so much from it. I just always keep in mind that our Lord God won’t ever leave our sides when things get hard.

Martin: And even though it’s not always clear what God is trying to tell us at any given moment, our trust in Him remains unwavering, no matter what.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

I always exhaust and pressure myself to do things beyond my limits, which sometimes leads me to anxiety. In fact, I did wish that God would just write His will on the wall, or speak to me with an audible voice for me to know which path to take to avoid failures. But I know God rarely chooses to make His will for my life that obvious. He wants us to be persistent in seeking His guidance, and to always trust in the promise He bestowed. I’m truly thankful that He helped me to always understand His will and obey with all my heart. Now, I overcome the fear of taking risks and the fear of failing because I know God loves me. And His love won’t lead me astray.

Martin: Joining us now is a show favorite of ours, minister of the gospel, Brother Donald Pinnock. Brother Donald, how are you today?

Bro. Donald: I’m not too bad, Brother Martin, it’s good to hear from you.

Martin: Happy to have you on today. Brother Donald, you know, as we talk about self-reflection and the struggles that people go through, what struggles in life have you gone through? And why didn’t those struggles break you?

Bro. Donald: Well, what immediately comes to mind, Brother Martin, is when I left Canada to pursue my studies in the ministry there in the Philippines in 1992. Of course, it was very, very difficult to leave behind my parents who, of course, were getting on in age, when it comes to my siblings, and also my close friends. Even when it comes to my place of employment. And not only that, having to adjust to a culture that was very foreign to me, other people there, this just made the situation extremely hard. 

Of course, before I left, I tried to prepare myself as best as I could. But when you’re actually there, and feeling like a total stranger and alien to everyone and everything, emotionally, it was very, very taxing. But I truly believe that God wanted me to be there. And that belief acted as a catalyst for me, in order for me to immerse myself in the culture. And also when it came to my studies.

Martin: Now, looking back on it many years removed from that situation, do you feel like maybe your apprehension was … was it an overreaction, an underreaction, or was what you expected exactly what ended up happening?

Bro. Donald: Well, fortunately, before I began my studies in 1992, I did visit the Philippines in 1990. It was just for a few weeks and I was able to visit my wife’s family there. And again, that was my first trip to the Philippines. And there, we can say there was a bit of a culture shock when it comes to the stark reality of how many people were really struggling there, when it came to the economy and when it comes to other living conditions for so many. So in truth, that initial visit there to the Philippines, it kind of helped, kind of helped. But when it came to going there in 1992, and to be there for the next five years, well, that’s all the more that, you know, reality hit me. So my apprehension, I believe, was in a way, an attempt to brace myself. But when I was actually there, knowing that I had left my family and my friends and everything else there in North America to pursue my studies, you know, being human, of course, it was very difficult, extremely difficult.

Martin: Right. And you know, that difficulty, perhaps they didn’t go into ministry but when you know, after hearing those clips, it shows that members of the Church Of Christ are not immune to the struggles in life. Even when they pursue their dreams, they’re not immune to those challenges. So what makes us all the more resilient to those struggles?

Bro. Donald: Well, the same reason why I was able to overcome my personal struggles then when I was beginning my studies and until now, when different kinds of challenges come in different forms. Being members of the Church Of Christ, we are resilient, not because of our own ability, but rather because we place our hope and trust in God. We trust that He will give us the strength, the courage, the guidance, in order for us to overcome whatever we may encounter in life. 

In fact, it’s no surprise because God has made and fulfilled such promises to His people in the past, as we can read here in Isaiah 40:28-31: 

Don’t you know? Haven’t you heard? The LORD is the everlasting God; he created all the world. He never grows tired or weary. No one understands his thoughts. He strengthens those who are weak and tired. Even those who are young grow weak; young people can fall exhausted. But those who trust in the LORD for help will find their strength renewed. They will rise on wings like eagles; they will run and not get weary; they will walk and not grow weak. 

[Isaiah 40:28-31 Today’s English Version]

As this Bible citation reminds us, it’s not just the old but even the young who can grow weak and feel exhausted, especially considering the current time that we are living in. But God has promised to strengthen His people who place their hope and their trust in Him. In fact, God further encourages us with a following declaration written in Isaiah 41:10:

Fear not [there is nothing to fear], for I am with you; do not look around you in terror and be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen and harden you to difficulties, yes, I will help you; yes, I will hold you up and retain you with My [victorious] right hand of rightness and justice. 

[Isaiah 41:10 Amplified Bible]

That is why even though we encounter virtually the same struggles, the same pains, the same hardships as other people, Church Of Christ members rely, depend, and in fact, we can say lean on and fully believe in God’s promises to us, His people. This is what makes us so resilient, so that even if we may feel down in the dumps, when a serious problem comes upon us, we’re able to get back up on our feet. 

And no surprise because this was also what befell the apostles in their time. As we can read in II Corinthians 4:8-9: 

We are pressed on every side by troubles, but not crushed and broken. We are perplexed because we don’t know why things happen as they do, but we don’t give up and quit. We are hunted down, but God never abandons us. We get knocked down, but we get up again and keep going. 

[II Corinthians 4:8-9 Living Bible]

The apostles were not spared from experiencing severe troubles in life as we can glean from this citation. But again, because they placed their hope and their trust in God, every time they were knocked down, they were able to get up again. Because God will never abandon His loyal and faithful servants. Because of this, God’s many acts of kindness, they should be reflected upon from time to time by His people.

Martin: That’s amazing that there are so many verses that point to that process of reflection and introspection and how that all weaves into our faith. What would you say, Brother Donald, is the purpose for self-reflection? And what does it ultimately mean for members of the Church Of Christ?

Bro. Donald: You know, Brother Martin, self-reflection gives us the precious opportunity to consider the condition of our life. To meditate on perhaps the mistakes that we have made when it comes to our judgment calls, and how we can improve for the future. And being members of the Church, there’s an added layer of contemplation, and that is to consider the condition of our relationship with God, and how we have reacted when immense problems have risen up in our life. That is why the Bible recommends the following: 

When life is heavy and hard to take, go off by yourself. Enter the silence. Bow in prayer. Don’t ask questions: Wait for hope to appear. Don’t run from trouble. Take it full-face. The “worst” is never the worst. Why? Because the Master won’t ever walk out and fail to return. If he works severely, he also works tenderly. His stockpiles of loyal love are immense. He takes no pleasure in making life hard, in throwing roadblocks in the way: … GOD proves to be good to the man who passionately waits, to the woman who diligently seeks. It’s a good thing to quietly hope, quietly hope for help from GOD. 

[Lamentations 3:28-33, 25-26 The Message]

We know that all people are bound to experience troubles in life. In fact, we can read that in Job 5:7. Those whom God recognizes however as His people, they have a distinct advantage when it comes to overcoming the troubles and tribulations of life. And even though sometimes we may feel that life is indeed heavy and hard to take, we should never be discouraged nor lose hope. What we should do is, as the Bible teaches, bow in prayer, and wait for hope to appear. The Bible assures us that it’s a good thing to hope for help from God, and that we’ll not be disappointed because God proves to be good to His people who wait patiently for Him. Especially at these times, Brother Martin, as you know, where because of this pandemic, the life of virtually all people around the world has been affected adversely. And there is indeed an increase of worry, anxiety and other mental problems. 

However, when it comes to again, those whom the Lord our God recognizes as His people, He has promised to help them. So it is incumbent upon the people of God to place their hope and trust in Him. And one way we can do this is to believe in the power of prayer, communicating with our Father in heaven, meditating upon our life and our situation, taking those periods of self-reflection, in order for us to avail of God’s promises for us to continue to live a safe and productive life and most especially when it comes to remaining in close relationship with our Almighty God.

Martin: Thank you so much, Brother Donald, those verses were so very inspirational and the way that you were able to weave them into not only past struggles that maybe some of us have gone through, but the current struggles that are happening right now. We want to thank you so much, Brother Donald, for being on our show again today.

Bro. Donald: Oh, thank you so much for having me, Brother Martin.

Martin: Absolutely. We always look forward to having you on the show. And for our listeners, please continue to follow our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. That’s it from us today. Hope we were able to help, hope you were able to connect and hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all your heart and soul. Take a few moments to reflect and be thankful because you’re not in this alone. Take care.

[Lead In]

Martin Zerrudo: When was the last time someone said something nice to you? When was the last time you said something nice to someone else? What did they say? How did it make you feel? Is it something that happens often? Or maybe not often enough? Can a few simple words of kindness actually change people’s lives? 

Let’s have a Heart & Soul conversation. 

[Show open]

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Not to be cheesy, but thanks for being the best brother that I could ask for.

Love you mom and dad!

My boy best friend. I love you, dude. I’m grateful for you. Even though I don’t show it. Thank you for introducing me to my wife, and being my oldest friend.

[Music Transition]

Martin: Hey, everyone, hope you’re all doing well and are safe and healthy at home. We’re going to start off with a recent study that shows that if you say something nice to someone, you can instantaneously improve their way of life. 

Here’s what the National Institute of Physiological Sciences in Japan has to say: 

“Research shows receiving a compliment can enhance performance, social interaction, positivity in relationships, and increase general happiness. Not bad for something that’s completely free and takes literally seconds to do. Now with all those benefits and with such little effort involved, you would think complimenting someone or having a good thing to say about someone should happen a little bit more often”

But does it? Well. Here’s an article from the Huffington Post with their take on it:

“With all the angst and frustration, a kind word could be the difference between holding on and giving up. Yet, society glamorizes ‘Mean Girls’ and bullying culture. From celebrities to athletes to our school children, we blame the victims of bullying for not standing up. And we incentivize bullies for showing strength. We shamed those that have less or cannot keep up with the Joneses.” 

And if you couple that with a pandemic, where studies show 1 in 3 people right now are suffering from depression or anxiety as a direct result of COVID-19, it’s a pretty bleak world out there, which is why we wanted to highlight a social media post we created back in January of 2020, right before this all started. We asked you, our audience, to show a little bit of love. To surprise someone by saying something nice about them and tagging them in the comments. We thought the power of a kind word was something they could really use because according to becomingminimalist.com: 

“a kind word can speak power to someone’s life. It can inspire, it can motivate, and it can provide strength to someone who can’t find it within themselves.”

And that’s exactly what you all did. From random nice things to meaningful words from the heart. Here’s what you had to say.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Thank you for always listening to me when I need someone to vent to. I really admire everything you do for everyone around you. But especially our District. Whenever I start getting lazy, you really are my inspiration to be better.

Thanks for being my older sister and my role model. Even when I get on your last nerve, you still tolerate me. So that’s nice. You were the one who taught me how to be active and strong through example, and you’re the one whom I know I can confide in when I’m lost. Because I’m always lost. Sorry about that.

My best friend, you stayed with me during my ups and downs, and you’re truly an amazing friend to talk to. You were always there when I had no one to talk to until this day. I pray that we get to see each other someday and talk about the craziest things from the distance between California and Guam. Thank you for everything, Bestie. Love you.

I respect you so much for being an organist. I know it’s not easy, squeezing in personal organ practice time with your busy schedule. Seeing you practice super early in the morning and late night. Even if you only get a few hours of sleep is a dedication I very much respect. You inspire me to want to do the same. The love you feel when you play is evident. And I hope to feel that too someday.

You always wowed me with your growth as a woman. Your heart is pure and you have the spirit of a warrior. I’m proud to be your sister. Be the wise and kind woman that you ought to be because that will help you withstand every trial that you will face and battles that you have to face alone. But keep in mind, I’m always cheering for you. 

Martin: A kind word can even be used to express and even share our faith.

[Heart & Soul Listeners]

Your ever growing faith gives me strength, especially now that I’m feeling weaker. You rekindle the fire in me to keep going. I appreciate your kindness, care and reminders to me. And I pray that God blesses you in every way for a bright future that allows you to serve Him without hindrances.

Martin: Joining us now is Bro. Donald Pinnock, a minister of the gospel in the Church Of Christ. Hello, Bro. Donald.

Bro. Donald: Hello, Bro. Martin, and thank you for the invitation.

Martin: Thank you so much for joining us, Bro. Donald, I want to start off by saying something nice about you. Thank you for always being humble yet strong. I remember as a young teen, you were our minister in the local congregation of Scarborough, and you walked with such poise and grace, but you never drew attention to yourself. And I thought, wow, he’s so, he’s so humble. But when it came to preaching and being a good leader to us spiritually, it was always so very inspiring and strong. And so I just wanted to say thank you for always being so humble, yet strong, as a spiritual leader in the Church Of Christ.

Bro. Donald: Well, thank you for saying that Bro. Martin. I don’t really have a response to that. I can’t say, you know, perhaps you were delusional when you’re younger. But yet, in fact, since this episode is about kind words, well, you started it off on the right track by saying what you just said. In turn, what can I say? I am very, very happy to know you, somebody who’s extremely talented, and thinks outside the box, I don’t know if you’ve ever thought inside the box. 

Martin: Uh, no. 

Bro. Donald: Yes, really, really glad to know you, as someone who I can have very, very entertaining conversations with, and at the same time learn from because age is not proof that one is wise. One can always learn from others. As I say, nobody knows everything. But everybody knows something. So if you’re ready to listen, you can learn from another and I’m very glad to learn from you.

Martin: Thank you so much, Bro. Donald. Now speaking of saying something nice. Has anyone said something to you that really positively affected your way of life?

Bro. Donald: Definitely. An incident comes to mind. And this happened many, many years in fact, decades ago, when I was going through a very, very rough patch in life. In fact, my life in ways was going in the wrong direction. And that’s when a friend of a friend noticed this. Noticed that I was also feeling down in the doldrums. And she took the time to talk to me. And in fact, talking to her turned out to be one of the most pivotal conversations I’ve ever had in my entire life. It virtually lit a fire within me and changed the direction of the course of my life. 

Just the positivity, the encouragement, and “you can do it” comments. It boosted me so much that when it comes to the effects of those kind but inspiring words that were spoken with so much love and also sincerity, well, the effects of those words, they continue to reverberate even until my present day.

Martin: And why are words so powerful in affecting people?

Bro. Donald: You know, the proper words at the right time can invoke an emotional response that is for the betterment of the listener. But it’s not just the words per se, but also the feeling, the sentiment, the emotion behind those words. In fact, the Bible teaches this in Ephesians 4:29:

Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building others up according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen. 

[Ephesians 4:29 New International Version]

You mentioned earlier, Bro. Martin, that so many people are lacking that human touch, not just physically but also emotionally. Since especially now they’re being deprived of social interaction due to the lockdown, stay-at-home protocols being implemented by government bodies all around the world. Virtual or digital interaction, it can satisfy a segment or portion of that emotional need, but never ever to the level of when you’re actually in the same physical space with another. But even so, sincere words whether spoken face to face with an individual or online using social media platforms, those sincere words are at a premium at this time, so many people need to feel loved. And this is why the Church Of Christ members all throughout the world, they’re reaching out not only to their fellow brethren but to everyone around them.

Martin: Now, what words should we turn to when we feel this way? You know, there’s that question as well of, of connection and authenticity. You may see it and you may hear it on social media online. But what if you don’t know those people? What if you don’t believe what they’re saying? What if it’s hard for you to take the sincerity from it? Where should we turn to in those times of trial?

Bro. Donald: Well, again, those sincere and affectionate words, they are important to combat feelings of loneliness, and if one is getting down or desperate. However, when one is really going through severe trials in life, there are no better words than those written in the Bible. And a very good example of this is mentioned by the Lord Jesus Christ recorded here in John 16:33: 

I have told you these things, so that in Me you may have [perfect] peace and confidence. In the world you have tribulation and trials and distress and frustration; but be of good cheer [take courage; be confident, certain, undaunted]! For I have overcome the world. [I have deprived it of power to harm you and have conquered it for you.]

[John 16:33 Amplified Bible]

This is what the members of the Church Of Christ have been reminded of, that through our Lord Jesus Christ, they may have peace and confidence in the midst of those fiery difficulties, of those trials, of those frustrations. That is a really heartwarming promise, considering the world which we are now living in.

Martin: And what words would you have for our audience, Bro. Donald? You know, we have listeners all over the world who could use a little bit of inspiration, a little bit of sincere, authentic kindness. What would you say to them?

Bro. Donald: Well, regardless of who you are, or where you may be living, whether you’re married, or you’re living alone, be you young or old, we only have the sincerest of words and thoughts for all of you. We pray that you’re going to be kept safe from the ravages of this pandemic, that you are going to remain confident, positively minded, you’re going to remain jovial in the midst of all of this chaos. So, our dear listeners, keep on smiling, because someone does love you. The Church Of Christ members love one another, and they also love their neighbors. The very reason why, in expression of our love, we continue to extend that invitation for all of you to know why we draw strength and encouragement from the words of God that we believe in and live by. So do not despair, dear friends, even though yes, since the beginning of 2020 until now, life has been extremely difficult, extremely challenging. And even though we hear of vaccines being dispersed, at the same time, when it comes to a return to some level of normalcy that we enjoyed before the outbreak of this pandemic, it could still be a long way off. 

But let’s be thankful for what we have, and not be so down when it comes to what we don’t have. Find time to smile, find time for yourself, and find time for others. That as we receive kind words, then in turn, we can also express kind words to those around us. And virtually together we can get through this safely. And most especially for us, members of the Church Of Christ, we can continue to give praise to our Creator.

Martin: I want to thank you so much for joining us, Bro. Donald. And again to our listeners, I just want to echo what Bro. Donald said, you know, stay hopeful. We’re in this together. Though we may be physically distant, we remain spiritually united. And for those who are not members of the Church Of Christ, who may be listening and this podcast was shared with you, the most effective and sincere and most powerful way we could express our words to be of help to you positively is to just learn more about the Church Of Christ. And like Bro. Donald said, we guarantee it is something that will change your life. And so we want to thank you all for joining us. 

Please continue to follow us on our hashtag on Instagram, #heartandsoulconversations to stay up to date with all things Heart & Soul. That’s it from us today. We hope we were able to help, we hope we were able to connect and we hope you’ll join us next time ready to listen with all of your heart and soul. Oh, and say something nice to someone today. They just might need it. Take care.