How do you fight a PR battle when everyone's already decided you're the bad guys?

That's the problem facing the water industry on the eve of a new Channel 4 factual drama called Dirty Business. The clue is in the title. It focuses on a 10-year investigation into sewage-polluted waters.

Sticking to the facts is a basic rule of PR - but when coming up against raw anger and emotion, do you need more than facts? How do you appeal to hearts as well as minds?

On the extended edition on BBC Sounds, PR itself is in the dock. Two firms have found themselves making rather than shaping the news in recent weeks - over the Epstein files and allegations of trying to journalists. Put mildly, the companies involved have a battle on their hands to protect their own reputations. David and Simon explain why.

And if you think Heathrow is too crowded, you're very much mistaken. According to the CEO of the airport, it's simply because people are 'walking in the wrong places'. He might have a point, but the problem is, if you say something that sounds ridiculous, it doesn't matter how right you are - you're wrong.

Producer: Duncan Middleton