In this episode, I sit down with Helena Vissing—a licensed psychologist based in California, educator at the California Institute of Integral Studies, and host on the New Books in Psychoanalysis podcast.

What unfolds is a wide-ranging and deeply honest conversation at the intersection of psychoanalysis and somatic therapy—two fields that often sit in tension, but, as Helena argues, may actually need each other more than we think.

We explore the limits of both traditions: the risk of reducing the body to “nervous system tinkering,” and the equal risk within psychoanalysis of losing the body altogether. Along the way, we wrestle with the mind-body problem, the unconscious, and what it might mean to “free associate” not just through speech—but through sensation itself.

This is also a personal conversation. I share my own resistance to somatic work, my tendency to live as a “brain on legs,” and the deeper questions that raises about embodiment, knowledge, and the illusion of mastery.

We get into:

• Why both psychoanalysis and somatics can drift toward false certainty

• The danger of treating therapy as a problem to solve rather than something to encounter

• Integration vs. multiplicity—and whether a unified self is even possible

• The role of not-knowing in both analytic and somatic work

• And how the body may be present even in its absence

This is less a definitive statement and more an opening—a conversation that stays with the tension rather than resolving it.