Her Career Ladder

In this episode we have Lynn Hurdle, she's going to be teaching us how to communicate as a leader, as a woman of color in the workplace.

Ready for joining me. This is national mentors month, and it is an absolutely great month. If you are looking to mentor young people, even young professionals, definitely definitely reach out to some organizations or directly to someone you would like to mentor. Because it is absolutely a great thing to do. And it makes you feel good to give back. Today I want to talk about keeping a positive mindset in a toxic workplace. If you have ever worked in a place where in it is truly, truly toxic, it is difficult for you to even one a walk through the door, much less not quit on the spot. I have so been there with you. So these are some some of the things I've done. These are some things that other professionals recommend. And I wanted to share them with you so that you're able to cope with that toxic workplace. And hopefully, you're you're finding a way to get out of it. But these are some things that you can do. Right? So number one, have a positive mindset. Meaning go in there and say, you know, this is temporary. I have done more difficult things. I'm stronger than this situation. And I can make it through this. You can absolutely say that something I used to say was, this is a time for me to grow. Remember, we grow through difficult times I remember a pawn title, the rose that grew through conch crack in the concrete. And it's a poem that Tupac Shakur wrote many, many years ago, and I have the poetry book probably on that bookshelf. But it was truly truly important that you are in this very, very difficult situation. But it does not mean something positive cannot happen. 

So keep a positive mindset. Something else that you can do when it's very stressful, when you're coming into this workplace is remembering to breathe it in through your nose out through your mouth, you can do that on your way to work. If you drive you in the parking lot. And really, really just breathe, even if you're in the office, just taking a moment to close your eyes, and to breathe, because it can truly help relax your shoulders. Take some of the stress and pressure physically out of your body just breathing for a few minutes. Yes, it absolutely absolutely does help. Something that always helped me was in music having these in where I could tune out the negativity. I could tune out the bad news. I could tune out the aggravating people, right. We're headsets and what it allowed me to do to not only I could listen to podcasts, I could listen to audiobooks, things that were positive that were feeding positive positivity in me. Even though I was surrounded by negativity, right by in a toxic workplace. Still having something positive. With me every single day is really one way I really got into podcasts. Audiobooks, not so much, because I like to, I'm still a physical book person, as you can tell by this bookshelf. And I really, really like having books, even though I read them very slowly, or they don't always keep my attention. But it was a great way for me to tune out the negativity. Now something else I did. When it came to being in a in a negative. A toxic and negative workplace was listening to music. What is music that is upbeat that makes you happy makes you feel good.

I don't know if any of you remember the song Happy by why? Why am I forgetting his name right now. But anyway. And that song just makes you feel happy? What are those songs that make you feel happy? Maybe it's a station you can find on Spotify. Maybe it's a station or playlists you can put together from a provider that you have. And you really just listened to that and put putting together different playlists. So you always listen to the same one, but maybe five to 10 of them so you can put them in rotation to really help you get through the workday news. It can absolutely change your mood and get you through the workday in a toxic workplace. Something else you can do is phone a friend. Yes, use a lifeline phone a friend. Finding a friend really helps somebody else. Hear you vent. They let you let it loose and then they feed back into you and they build you up to get you through that day through that moment through dealing and working in that
Toxic workplaces. So phoning a friend who is positive and uplifting, don't phone a friend who's always negative. And down around the world, that is not who Negative Nelly is not who you want to call, when you're in a negative place. Don't call another negative person. I know in math, they make positive. But that is not who you want to call when you're dealing with having to go repeatedly in a toxic workplace. All right. Next, prayer and meditation, prayer and meditation, find your favorite scripture, your favorite quote, and just go within right, I'll go with that go above, and really let that refuel, you keep you lit, so that you can make it through the day. Next, take breaks.
Even if it's a 1015 minute break, just go sit in your car, find a quiet place, some  places have a lactation room. Some places have a cafeteria, where it's not lunchtime and just go sit there and just get away from the negativity so that you can re germinate and re energize yourself to continue to work there for as long as you have to take those breaks, it really, really helps. In saying that I thought about
something that some people do, they have snacks, and they end up gaining weight when they're in a toxic workplace. If you're either when it comes to stress, switch out those things that God will make you gain weight, so that you're eating things that are more nutritious, more, just as delicious. So maybe set up potato chips, you have sweet potato chips, on veggie chips, different things like that, to really really make you feel as though you can make it through the day. Now.

I know taking breaks aren't something that all of us can easily do.

But this is something that absolutely can work is speaking positively. Even in that situation. Remember I said you can get through it, you can make it happen even even having that right mindset but speaking it so that you believe it, going there and saying you know what I have I can truly do this. I believe in myself I'm stronger than I look alright. And you know, I will be stronger at the end of this. There's a reason I'm in this difficult place right now. And whatever that reason is, I will persevere I will overcome and I will win in the end. 

So no matter what it is just know not to give up and you can absolutely do this. So let's go back over how to keep a positive mindset when you're in a negative workplace. Remember to breathe. Remember to think positively. Listen to music. listen to audiobooks and podcasts, which are positive even YouTube channels their various YouTube channels which are positive phone a friend gotta use another lifeline, right? Prayer meditation, take breaks and speak positively about the situation you're in that something good will come out of it. I'm Michele Heyward. This is your mentor Monday, and I will be back next week, talking more about how you can become better as women of color STEM professionals. I'll talk to you later. Bye

Hello, everybody, it is International Women's Day. This is Michele Heyward here from positive hire, we're so excited to be with you, not only on International Women's Day, but also Women's History Month, in partnership with system, I'm gonna explain who that is in just a minute. I'm really excited. For the next four Wednesdays, we will be going live with a fantastic group of women who are in probably an industry many people may not be familiar with. But you absolutely should be familiar with. And this is why we are absolutely it is an absolutely essential part of our world. So system is founded by Nicole Brown systems, a casual network of women of color in the water and green industry. See that you didn't know that was an industry, you're learning something new today, Women's History Month, system is a play off of the word system. So system that I'm saying is s i s t e m, which is a definition of a regularly interacting or entity, interdependent group of items forming a unified whole. But this system with an eye focuses on women of color in the STEM field, Nicole was motivated to create this group after hearing a common theme for women of color working in water within her network. And these were three things she was hearing. I enjoy what I do. But I feel like I'm the only woman of color and I'm not sure that I belong. The second thing she would hear, I would love a mentor that understood the unique challenges we have as women of color in this field. And the third and final, I don't feel like I can be my authentic self at work. Have you felt that way?

This is why Nicole created system sounds really familiar. So why I created positive hire, which is why we've partnered together during women's history month. What you're really going to be in for is a treat tonight, as we talk about this month, women doing well and really persevering in the water and green industry, but also making connections here, whether you're following us on LinkedIn, YouTube or Facebook, we're so so happy to have you here tonight. Tonight, we're talking about a very, very important topic. And I love when we when this topic came up because I think often forget, and it's about our you're aligning your why and your career. And we have a fantastic speaker tonight that I am going to introduce to all of you, and we're going to have this great dialogue and conversation. And so I'm really excited to have her join us. Kay Beeler is 20 has 20 years of experience in finance, accounting, and digital water working alongside major municipal clients across the US. She has worked in finance, parks and recreation, general city city administration and utilities. Her expertise includes identifying funding sources, grant writing, and financial planning. As a versatile and visionary executive. She has managed dozens of projects drawing upon her expertise in all facets of executive leadership, strategy, and complex financial management. I'm excited. Are y'all excited? Are you excited? Hey, I am I am. This is thank you for having me. It's great to have you here. What did I leave out? What should people know about you that that's not in the bio? Like,

like if if they want to get on your good side? Is there a treat? Or is it like don't call me before 7am? Or don't call me after 9pm? Like, like you'd at night at a morning person? I am definitely not a morning person. So don't schedule anything for me before eight and then we're okay. I love it. See, I'm before 10 We you want us to be friends? Don't don't not before 10. Not before. So as we talk about this subject, aligning your why your career I think is really important. Because as we progress in our careers, our goals change our lives definitely change. When you think about aligning your Y. What's the first thing that you would tell that comes to mind for you? We'll start there.
I think the first thing is you know what gets you up in the morning.

And what's your reason for being? What excites you? So my why is I come back to it all the time is, why am I doing this? What is it? And what drives me? I love it. I love it. Um, is that waking up? Because like, do I want to get out of bed or not get out?
So what would you tell women in your industry, when it comes to their their y?

I'd say you know, first, once you identify it, or once you think you identify it, realize that it's always going to be evolving, that is not static, and give yourself permission to change and pivot. And I think that's been the largest thing that I've had to learn, or the biggest issue that I've struggled with is just realizing that things change.

Yes, they absolutely do. Now, as we look at your career, early on, what was your why, for for, you know, in your career Early on, for being in the industry.

You know, the industry kind of found me, I was recruited out of college, so I didn't know much about the industry. And initially, it was really just proving ground. You know, it was I knew that there were not a lot of women, and not a lot of women of color, and not a lot of young women. And so when I layered those things on it was just, hey, I can do it, I'm going to prove to everybody that I can. And that was part of what drove me early on. Okay. I like that, like, you know, being the only one. Um,

it's really can be daunting sometimes. But I love how you say, You know what, I'm up for the challenge. I like that. When you look at your evolution and growth in your career has, how often has your why has your why change? And how often do you think it's changed?
Oh, well, I think initially, after you prove yourself, you know, that gets a little daunting to keep proving yourself. And so you get to a shift of where you know, you belong. And you recognize that and you feel like others should. So that was probably the first shift that where I really had to get comfortable with who I was. And what I brought to the table. I think the the change, the second change was being a mother. Because then everything comes into focus that maybe wasn't before, at least for me. And so it was not only did I have myself to think about but I now had my son. And so I thought about not only caring for him and being able to provide but what kind of example and what kind of legacy I had. So that was a big driver for me. And as I progressed, it was really It got to not only my son, but also my legacy other women, other people of color, how could I impact them? So those now are all intertwine. So it's not just one way, it's several different ones. And, and I love talking about the mother aspect. So now you're a mom, your Y has has changed. And I love I love this, I'm gonna get into it, not a mommy so.

So you're telling us a bit about your personal life? How has that driven your decision about where you live? Maybe even
the hours you may put in, like How's it changed those, you know, you're living as well as your work life? Well, it changed in that I had to really make some tough decisions at times, because once you become a mother, or once I became a mother, I needed different support. So whereas I started and when my career really took off, I was in the Midwest and Northeast, and his life changes happen. And I'm a mom and you go through splits and divorces and all of those things. I moved back to Dallas where I'm originally from. And so part of it was, you know, not only did my son need support, but I needed support. And so that really was a shift in my career. It really was a shift in my ownership. I was an entrepreneur at the time. But also my priorities changed. So sometimes I'd have to work late sometimes I'd have to work early, but I just have to get the job done. So I think that really impacted a lot of personal decisions for me.

Absolutely, absolutely understandable. When we look at
look at those times in your life because they've shifted who are some of your role models as you're going through early career, becoming a mom mid career and being an entrepreneur as well who were some of those role models for you? Well, it started with my parents. My dad was probably one of my closest confidants he was like a coach, or throughout most of my life and career early on from that
High school being a drill team running track to go into college and picking classes. He really was that grounding for us. He was a man of faith and or is a man of faith and an engineer. So always gave me that practical kind of foundation. My mom, she's an executive, she ran the VA Medical Center for several years. So I really grew up hearing about executive leadership and organizational behavior at the dinner table. So now I realized that a lot of those things were deposited in me.

Professionally, I think the game changer for me was going to work in Pittsburgh, and having alpha San, the utility in Allegheny County as my client. I worked alongside our letter Williams, who's, who's been so much to so many. But she really kind of elevated and helped me elevate my life as a consultant and as a professional just because she demanded excellence. And I remember started and I had, I just had all of this energy and just rough edges. And you know, people gave me grace. But she told me, I'll never forget, she said, Kay, why bark when you can grow? And why growl when you can just show up on the porch, you're enough. And so that kind of really started me on this journey of not having really curtailing my energy and realizing what my assets were.

I love it. I love it. Parents, young, you get molded young for many years. So this is really good. And that's what we always say Big Brothers, Big Sisters and mentoring programs play a huge role in our lives, especially as an adult. So I'm so happy that you like many of us, were able to have role models, early in life, but early in career, because they absolutely do help us.
You shared
some things that you are entrepreneur. So I'm a founder, Ramon tech startup, so I love talking about. So let's delve into the entrepreneurship. And then we're gonna come back to water industry. And just, and we'll come back to that. So tell us a bit about how did you end up as an entrepreneur, and being a mom, and an entrepreneur that you you mentioned a few moments ago?
Well, I started, I worked for a couple of firms early on. And as they changed as the environment changed, there was really an opportunity for me to kind of go out on my own, sometimes, you know, I had management, and then the scope change and a couple of projects. And as I got more disconnected from my clients, working for the corporations, I thought, wow, you know, I could do this. And at the time, I'm young, I didn't have enough sense to know, you know, crazy, you don't have any money saved. But I went out on my own, started getting clients doing analysis, getting involved in programs. And it just kept snowballing. I got so much work that I couldn't do it alone. And then that was the start of my firm. So I had to hire people, I got more projects. And I really had a knack and a love for people that I was able to combine with my skill set and able to connect. And so that is how I started. I had my firm probably about five years before I hit my son. So I had enough to be stable. And you know, starting that success kind of trajectory was starting. And it was a point of no return. I had contracts. So there wasn't, you know, as my dad said, you can't pack your tent and go home. So that's really it just got bigger than I could manage alone. And so my firm just started and I was successful. So I moved to Chicago first and then to Pittsburgh, and kind of follow up that Ohio for the water and sewer. So entrepreneurship. It wasn't my intent at first, but it definitely was part of my journey.
I love it. I love that, that that progression.

You also mentioned following Following the war, because I'm thinking Mississippi when he's
wrong, don't get me wrong here, but I'm not that bad of an engineer.

Understand the issue around water affordability. And how that became the opportunity that changed your career. Can you tell us a bit about that? Sure. And Texas, you know, you didn't have as many especially we're talking 1520 years ago, you didn't have the wet wet weather issues that you have now. And I saw an opportunity in the Midwest and Northeast they had most of the communities were under a consent decree. You had aging infrastructure you had transitioning
population, you had cost issues. And then you had really, you know, typography difference in typography. So they had the EPA was coming in, they were sewing most of the utilities and they were trying to figure out, Okay, we have all of these technical solutions, how do we pay for them. And up until that point, there really wasn't a concise nexus of where finance and engineering meet. So I had that background of both. But I really was able to use my financial ability and the ability to connect with clients and stakeholders. So we had to one figure out what the ratepayers could pay to what could the utilities afford to finance. And so because of those multi year programs, for small business, it was great because it was no longer $25,000 $50,000 RFP, you are a long term, multi year program. So that was the beginning of what I was saying was my career and the stability.

Yeah, so you want to climate change, but you didn't say I'm saying climate change. So we'll say that case said it say that Michelle said it. Okay.
That's it.

It and for those of you that I worked on capital projects, and utilities, I built transmission lines and fossil fuel. I worked in Pittsburgh to boughs out and fossil retrofit for fossil fuel plants. For those who don't know, coal is cold.
So I'm sitting here like, Oh, my God, that is so true. All of this is so resonating with me. So for those of you if anything that Kay is saying resonates with you, please drop it in the chat, I would love to see what your thoughts are. So she can see what you're saying as well. And I'll share some things on the screen. But I'm sitting here going through thinking of the opportunities that you found as an entrepreneur with these long term contracts. Because I agree with you to 25 and $50,000 are great, but 25,000, or $50,000 per month, over four years is even better. So what what advice would you give to someone who is in their career, they're considering entrepreneurship, and they're considering trying to figure out what steps they would take in the water industry consulting, to have more consistent revenue?
I like number one, identify the commodity what you're selling, you know, what can you add a value not only to the utility, but to other firms. Because partnering is going to be huge. Being a sub consultant is generally how most of us start. I think, also making sure that you're ready, you know, having money saved is underestimated. But having, you know, at least six months was saving because we deal in a pay when paid industry. And cash flow is a real impediment to growth into just the ability and staying in business. So you could have 10 million in backlog. But if you don't have your cash flow, right, you could go out of business. So I'd say cash flow. And then number three, be prepared to network, be prepared to always be in the position to partner and meet someone. Peter Drucker, the Harvard professor wrote about identifying your client. And I think as a sub consultant, as an entrepreneur as a small business, initially, I thought the client was the municipality, but I had to really once I did the exercise, my client oftentimes was other engineering firms. So I had to shift and not only market to municipalities, but also make key relationships with other engineering firms and people that I needed to be a complement to their services, because that's how the finance works so well, because most of them did not keep, you know, analysts and have a big robust financial capability for evaluating water and sewer projects. It was very nice. I think there are more neurosurgeons than people that do infrastructure finance.

That was a whole lot. So I want you all to come back. And I need you to replay that for those, especially for those of you that are going to go into entrepreneurship, whether you stick a toe in or hole leg. Kay said a lot about money, clients business development, that everybody on social media doesn't know you actually have to go out and meet people it
they're always surprised. They're always surprised. Um, we are going to continue to conversation because I'm having a good time. I don't know about anything. Anybody else.

So you mentioned having your own business. How did Can you tell us more about the business and a business growth that you had to now you found long term contracts or better your understanding, you know, business development, grant writing, what does that looking like for you? Now that your five year
Chris into your five plus years into your business, five plus years into my business it got where we really had to expand. And I really had to open up. It wasn't just analysis because there was one thing to build a financial model and tele utility, you know, 20 years out, this is what your revenue requirements will look like 20 years out, this is what your demographics will look like. But it was another thing to really educate and say, what does it mean? And say, Well, if we can't finance, what are our options, and so I think being able to evolve and be able to really identify issues that were not financial, that could have been disadvantaged communities that could have been historically underutilized businesses, legal issues, regulatory, so really to be able to take the finances as a base and expand. So that's what I would say that your five to 10 probably looked like is, is really getting in there and being able to understand the other issues other than just finance.
Thank you, thank you so much for that. So the business has grown.

What what happens next?

Well, I'll tell you, the business started growing, and it started for me, maybe not everybody else, but it started getting less fun for me. Because as your business grows, you know, you have employees, you have legal, you have HR, you have all of these things that you have to do, in addition to whatever skill that you had to run the business. And as you grow, no one tells you about what scaling really means. And scaling really consumes a lot of energy, it consumes a lot of thought and it becomes, you know, really less about you it's a really lonely place. And there are times where you have to really reconcile your why, why am I doing this? What makes this work for me. And so I think as I grew, it became more daunting, and the issues became more, although I loved what I did, I didn't necessarily love all the issues, because in our industry, as you know, it's very geographically driven. So as you want to grow, you'd have to get another office and you'd have to get certified in this place. And then you'd have to deal with a lot of that. So for me, that was when I didn't know it at that time was where I started to get a little burnout, because I started so early, you know, in my 20s. And as being a single mom and running the business that was really starting to kind of wear me down a little bit.

Gotcha. So tell us, what did you decide to do with the business at that point?

At that point, I was, I was right sizing it. So I had moved to Dallas and I decided, let me try to right size it because you know, you get to a point where it was large, and you're keeping all of these people busy. And you're spending more time going out and getting the business and the challenges you kind of start as a practice, which you know, is yourself, and then you want to grow it. But when people still recognize you as the business, you have to touch everything. So looking back on it, I could have created something more scalable, but because I didn't although you know, at this point, I'm doing 1.5 to two and a half million a year, it's still me having to leverage myself everywhere. Then COVID hit. So once COVID hit, it was like, Okay, why am I doing this? You are at that time really trying to scale trying to meet technology demands? Because we were trying to figure out how do you touch clients, and during COVID, you know, the larger companies, they could still figure it out and had enough cash to wait. So at that point, I was just like, I think I want to transition out of this, I think I wanted to, you know, sell the contracts that I have and just take a year or two to figure it out. At that time. I didn't know COVID was going to last two years. But that was when I started doing some soul searching deciding what I really wanted to do next.
So you sold the business.
You take some time off,
where's K now?

K was at an inflection point of okay, what next? And I talked about it, you know, with my mom and my family, my close friends. And I said, you know, I had a couple of mentors at the time. There was a couple and talk to Reggie and Lisa Perry about like, Okay, what do I want to do next? You know, they were huge mentors in my life. And they were like, Well, do you feel like you max out? And I said, yeah, they said, Well, maybe you know, it's time to go back to corporate in retool. And I was like, I never thought about that as an option. Because once you have gone that, you know, entrepreneurial route, it just wasn't top of mind for me. So I started kind of
have, you know secretly looking for a job and I had a, you know, sending my resume a couple of places. And I realized, you know, I was kind of it was dragging on, I wasn't getting the traction. And I realized, because I was searching, really an anonymity, you know, because I hadn't reconciled that, hey, this is what I'm doing, I still kind of had feelings of failure, that that was really used as leverage. And so one day, I just decided, you know, what, I'm going to rip the band aid off, I took a picture posted on LinkedIn and said, Hey, I'm ready to pivot. I'm looking for a job, let's go. And from that, it just kind of it snowballs again, and I had about 37 interviews over nine companies, and I ended up with seven job offers, wow, one post one post, but it was really just accepting, like, I didn't care what anybody thought, you know, let's go. I love it. I think when we were, the humility can hold us back. And, and the opportunities there, because you built a great career, you had so many connections and network, it was absolutely fantastic. So I love that. I love that. So what we're going to do, we're going to transition into the next part of the conversation. But I'm gonna turn it over to melody, right? Who is a member of system she's going to come on, she's going to really dive into some other parts of your career. So melody, how are you? I'm good. Thank you so much for Michelle and Kay, and thanks to everyone who has joined us this evening. So I'm Kay, I would love to talk a little bit about your why. Okay,
can you tell us a little bit about what you do in terms of being able to be a voice for others in your career space, and how you were able to sort of find a way to connect that ability to be a voice in your personal and professional life?

Well, I think part of it was taking my experience that I had as a small business owner, now that is,
I really have empathy and an understanding for other small businesses, and I feel like working for a large corporation, I am able to advocate and also educate as to what that experience looks like, you know, oftentimes, we hear there, you know, we can't find any MBAs or DBS or you know, we can't find anyone qualified. And I'm like, Yes, has have we looked. And so that became part of it. And also, other young women of color, you know, we, you know, voice and showing that it's not always pretty right in, there are experiences that you really need help on. And I think, for me being authentic, and being vocal about it doesn't always look good. But you can just, you know, be vulnerable, and ask questions and get the help that you need. Because I think being isolated really, really
kind of just impacted me, and then I kind of figured out like, hey, there are people that will help you. Thanks. That's awesome. And you know, you bring up the topic of vulnerability. And I feel like when we got to talk earlier in the week, you shared with me that shortly after selling your business, finding yourself in this new space, you also really got very much intentional and mindful about being vulnerable in that space. And I remember sharing with you that the, the renowned black feminist author, Bill hooks has a quote that says, The fearless woman is not afraid to be vulnerable, because she knows that it will destroy her.
Can you talk a little bit about how you apply that principle at work?

Well, I just live out loud. Now, you know, I'm a single mom, that is not always a straight task, or being a mom, you know, or being a parent. You know, you have school you have activities. And I think saying when you know you're overwhelmed, or when I can't make it or when you know, you have a sick kiddo, that sometimes your responsibilities at home don't necessarily align with who you need to be at work and being honest about that. That being said, when I can I give 110% But being vulnerable and not caring that shame of whatever your life circumstances, I think opens you up to a world of productivity and success. So that for me is where being vulnerable has lifted a huge weight. It has taken this time and it said, This is my life. This is what I do. But hey, we're ready to go. Right. Thank you so much. You know, it brings me to another question.

Another side of that vulnerability concept, right? One of the things that was talked about earlier in the conversation this evening was this idea of many of us, like you find ourselves as the only woman and or the only woman of color in these male dominated spaces.
And that can also create vulnerability is sometimes a challenging way. So I wondered if you could talk a little bit about that, you know, what we're talking about a little bit of the bad and the ugly. Right. Right. In terms of those experiences at work, right? Well, I think, you know, our industry has definitely changed. I've definitely seen growth and more women, but I do think that there has, there still needs to be some education, because there are some times when, you know, some people said things or did things, and that I felt crossed the boundary or legally crossed the boundary. And I just didn't know what to do. There wasn't a blueprint, there wasn't a role model. Did I always handle it? Right? No, did I always have the tools? Right? No. And so I think part of it is starting that dialogue, you know, me, too, is relatively new. And so you know, as a as an entrepreneur, you often feel that your back is against the wall, because at the end of the day, you're trying to make sure other people work, and they eat, and you don't know what to do. And so I think that part of the dialogue needs to be what are those protections? What are those kind of bumpers, if you think about bowling, where are they and I think for other women, part of it is kind of deciding early on what your boundaries are, and making sure that you have some safeguards in place if things don't work out, so you don't feel that you have to tolerate certain things. It's great, thank you. Um, you know, another part of our earlier conversation that stuck with me, are some of the pieces of advice that you shared, that you would give to younger professionals who are on par, to be able to go to your same career ladder.

One of the a couple of the things you said to stand out are, don't be afraid to pivot. Don't be limited by your job title.
And make sure you recognize the importance of having a network. And I would love to hear you talk about one of those maybe in particular, the one about not being limited by your job title.

Well, I think, you know, job titles are important as classifications, but I don't think they necessarily always convey what you do or convey what your limits are. I started you know, as as a technical person, but because of my personality, I was able to make connections, and I didn't wait for anybody to say, Okay, how are you going to talk to this client? This is the information, I was just myself. And I think sometimes we think that we have this title, or maybe the title limits us. And we allow that to limit our job. And I think that there are people watching, there are people that you interact with, that are saying, you know, this person, the way they move, actually, they're prepared for the next level. So I think it's important to not be limited and not allow your job title, I behave for the position that I want. That's the produce and not the position that I have. Fantastic. So you get the chance to go back in time, and you run into your 20 year ago. So in an elevator, so in just that amount of time that you would have, what is the piece of advice that you would give to that cave of the past?
Wow, I'd probably start by telling her I don't know an answer. You don't have to know everything today.
And then let's say you belong, that just because you don't show up and look like everybody there, you have just as much right to be there and you own it and you go forth and you walk in it.

Awesome.

So what would you say that you would leave our audience this evening with if there was just one key takeaway that you want to make sure six
I think it's important to really tried to put yourself in other shoes. I think in the workplace. Now we are so busy moving, moving. We're so worried about profits and clients and all of these things, that we often don't extend enough grace to our colleagues. And I look back early in my career when I didn't have the life experience that I have now to know that people have life. People, things happen. And people bring things with them that sometimes just a little grace could speak to so I think in this environment in this climate, that's really what I see is a lack of grace for maybe it's other firms. Maybe it's colleagues. Maybe it's for your co worker down the hall is extended race at times and really tried to work towards the
common goal because we just have so much more in common than we do different. Fantastic. Okay, I know that on behalf of myself and system and everyone watching this, we're so happy to have had this conversation with you today. It's been insightful. It's been inspiring, and it's been fun
doing it. Absolutely. Do we have time for questions?
I'm not sure
you're on mute.
I'm glad one of us knows.

So let me see what we have in the chat. I hadn't seen any yet. We did have some.
First off, Happy International Women's Day, everybody. So we're here.
Another comment, what an amazing conversation.

So yeah, I know the coals here in spirit. Oh, we saw that you get some shout outs to
my supporters were at least watching so yes, yes. But when yet they're excited. Like I'm here they like they've been waiting like they're in.
So I was like, you watch her fan base with you. And we have some engineers and training some professional engineers and engineers in the chat, that are definitely enjoying the conversation. So I don't see any questions. So if you have questions, go ahead and
say that it's great to see and meet system and everything that's going on. And that that kid I just missed each other. I think she left Oregon 2016. I got to Pittsburgh in 2016. And so we literally probably missed each other by a few months. We do have, we do have a question. And so I'll pop that up. And I'll turn these over to you
to
to the transition more from owning your own business to return into corporate.
You want me to take that melody, the question? I'm absolutely okay. Um, the you know, the transition, I think at first was more mental. It was more of just accepting that this is what I want to do and making my mind up because I didn't want to kind of vacillate
the transition. The biggest part was, of course, I think having a team and working with people. And so you know, the, the benefits was that I opened up my toolbox, it was no longer just me or selling, you know, key staff. It was now I work for a large corporation, Tetra Tech, and I have so many people, so many resources that I can bring to bear. I'm also having a boss and performance appraisals. You know, that was a little bit scary at first, because it had been 17 years since I had a performance appraisal. And so I had to really figure out what does success look like as an employee. And from that, it was really, you know, I went to work for a company that valued entrepreneurial spirit. So I think the schedule that was also a little different, but I'm able to work hybrid. So I think the biggest shift was mindset. But once I made up my mind that I had closed that chapter in my life, I was ready to do whatever I needed to do. So mindset number one decided that I wanted to be a great employee, having a team. And so you know, this kind of like a family you have to learn to, to work together, the good and the bad. And then number three, just the schedule, you know, it's every day, I can't just decide to necessarily take off when we have things to do. But it's definitely been fun. And I love it. I can't imagine. Now going back to be an entrepreneur, I am just ecstatic get excited every day.
So okay, I'll ask a quick question for the group as well, because some of the things that we talk about when we meet monthly can be topics around entrepreneurship, especially those of us who are members of the group, who are either considering or in the midst of entrepreneurship. So I wonder if you might compare what you just shared about leaving working on your own and going into corporate as compared to what it was like to take the leap in the other direction when you left corporate at first and started your entrepreneurial role.
I think when I first left, I didn't realize how much time it took to really start your entrepreneurial journey and the level of commitment and detail and everything you didn't know what you didn't know. And so people say, Oh, I don't want to be on a schedule. You know, being an entrepreneur. It really is you're working subconsciously. You know, I remember I just started not sleeping with my phone under my pillow after years of doing it.

because you never know what, although we weren't on call, you know, you were always waiting for an email or the other shoe to drop. And so I think, for me, it felt like I was always in that three point stance. And I think that's one thing that you have to consider when you're you're balancing life. And you know, you're making the decision of do I want to be an entrepreneur, you have to think about your family, you have to think about your bandwidth, because it's really something that the entire family has to be bought into. And I talk about money, not from the simple fact that it rules you but cash flow is a big deal. And as you expand and have a payroll, people are relying on you to feed their families. And so you can't take that responsibility lightly. And so I think really thinking about if you have a professional services firm, you know, your lack of collateral, you know, you're going to have to be credit worthy to get, you know,
to be able to get a loan or to be able to get a line of credit. And so all of those things that you don't think about that can be stressors are stresses. And also, are you comfortable asking for money? Because you will have to call and say, what's the status of my invoice? And that is very uncomfortable at times for people because you feel like you're begging. But it is actually what's duty you. And I remember a couple of times where I had to tell the client, hey, you get paid every two weeks, I've been waiting 68 days or 98 days. So it's really getting to a point where you are comfortable advocating for yourself advocating for your business and advocating for your employees. Awesome. So I think what you've pointed out here, k is really this.

This common thread that goes through all of the components of your career, and the same for many of us in our career paths is the idea that vulnerability is almost an imperative, isn't it? Right? You have to be vulnerable in conversations asking for money, you have to be vulnerable to step out there and do it on your own. You have to be vulnerable to change paths or pivot and go back perhaps a few steps or go forward or over to the side a little bit. Because I think that the other thing we touched on as well is that the path that almost never is and doesn't have to be linear, right? Right. It's never linear. It's not a straight line. And I think get comfortable with being uncomfortable. And I'd say if you want to be successful, you have to wake up every day and decide it's not a motivation thing. It's a discipline thing. And so you really have to take out, you're not always going to feel like it everybody's not always going to be nice. It's not always going to be fair. But you make up your mind of what you want. And I think that's important.
Do we have any other questions?

No, we don't have any other questions. This has been fun. I've enjoyed this conversation. I can't wait to the next one. And I won't be in the hot seat. But
thank you so much. So Michelle, for food and producing and putting an event together this evening. And thank you, Kay, for sharing your experience and your insights with us. This has been an awesome pleasure. It's been fun, it's been relieving to be able to share my testimony and experience. So thank you. Thank you. And thanks for everyone who tuned in. Thank you. So this is the first of four great conversations like this. So if you are not connected with Nicole Brown, you're not connected with me be sure you go through and do that. But more importantly, you need to be connected with Kay and melody while they are here. So be sure you're you're tapping into them. You're following them here on LinkedIn. And you're connected with them, because obviously they're fantastic women to know, in the water and green industry. Now for next week. We're still have some great conversations to come out. We're going to be talking about creating your work life balancing act. You don't want to miss that. We still have a fantastic speaker, and we will have a new moderator. But guess what, I will be sharing that link with you in the chat. So you can come over and join and register for that win now before you leave. Any other final thoughts before we close out for the night tonight, ladies.
Thank you.

You're very welcome. I will see you next or we will see you next week. hailed by I'll be an audience.
And we will take that we're happy to have you join us. Everybody. Have a great week. Again, Happy International Women's Day and talk to y'all 6pm eastern standard time next week. Bye everybody.

Nicole Brown created SISTEM which is a unique and long-overdue network for women of color in water.

The organization provides a safe space to discuss challenges and innovations, and to learn from each other.

Viewers can expect to hear about the challenges and successes of being a woman of color in the water industry, as well as gain valuable knowledge on this important field.

Join this SISTEM session to connect with inspiring women in the water industry and learn about the important work they are doing to improve our planet's most precious resource.

Erin Browder a leadership and organizational development consultant, discusses her background and expertise in working with human-serving organizations, particularly in education and nonprofit leadership. She shares her experience of transitioning between positions due to the nature of grant-funded projects and how she developed a career strategy to continually progress toward his goals.

I greatly appreciate it. For those of you don't know, my name is Michelle, this one L. Michelle here in South Carolina. And I thought I would come on two nights in a row last night, of course I was on somebody else's account. If you didn't see I was on Laura Lala keys account. Tonight, I want to talk about planning for the future, like what are the things you do to plan for the future? And I don't mean like, necessarily 20 years out, maybe you have a 20 year goal, right? And then maybe that is to pay off your mortgage? And what are you doing to pay it off early, maybe like, I want to pay this house off before my kids go to college, and the youngest is 17 is seven. So you have 10 years or less to pay off your house? And so what are those things that you are doing to pay them off? Right? Or maybe you have goals or plans to go on a trip? Like how do you backwards like this is the goal, this is the plan. This is where I want to be and literally taking the steps backwards, to figure out how to reach those things. So whatever you do, you want to take the time to grab a pen, and a paper that might have some goals. Some questions? Listen, where do you see yourself in two to three years? Thanks for the hearts. Where do you see yourself in three to five years, five to 10 year what makes you happy? Like these are really seemingly easy questions. But most of the times we get wrapped up in our everyday lives. So take the time to really write down and you don't even have to start it two to three years, you can start in like in six months, where do I want to be in June, July of 2020? With my life, right? Do I want to have $1,000? Saved? Do I want to have $10,000 paid off my vehicle? What is it? Do you want to have a better job, and literally writing things down, there's power in writing things down. And so I encourage you to find a empty notepad, a journal, maybe you started to journal, NFL all to write down those things that you want to accomplish, you plan to reach in your lifetime. And put like dates when you want to hit those things. Because a dream is a goal without a date. And you want to have a date next to those things because they make them more realistic. They make them achievable when you have an actual date to them. So first question, where do you see yourself in two to three years, and you're like married with kids, my kids out of my damn house? My kids working part time, so I don't have to pay all this extra stuff for them? What is it that you want in your life in two to three years? Maybe it's like something that's not completely like, Okay, I want to have $10,000 less in student loan debt. I would like a New Earth car, whatever it is, write it down and really focus and really see where you want to be. Then the next question you ask yourself, Where do I see myself in three to five years. And this is really, really important for women to frame this. for themselves. Oftentimes, we are caretakers to our family. And that can be kids and spouse that could be significant other, even our parents, aunties, uncles, we become the caregivers. But it's truly important, especially for women to keep an eye and a pulse on what they want and where they see themselves in two to three years in three to five years and so forth. Any questions, any comments? Anybody that who does this already? Put a one up if you do planning a year, two years, three months in advance and let us know how far in advance you do planning? Where do you see yourself in five to 10 years? Maybe you're like, yeah, yeah, you dancer because your kids are out of the house. And you're like that's so I see myself traveling, I'm going on a cruise. I am going to sell this large house and by smaller house like where do you really see yourself? Then go back and ask yourself what makes you happy? Not like, Oh, if I'm having my kids clean up No, like what really makes you happy? Is it I don't know painting? Is it photography? Is it creative, creating a new business I one of my friends, I'm at her house, and she gets excited about creating new businesses come up with new business ideas. And so I'm making her it Again, our budget tonight because I'm making her do more work than I hate Jonathan. So do you need desire to go back to school, maybe you like my kids are going to go to school. So I'm gonna go to school to, or maybe your desire is to go to school in the next two to three years or to start applying now. So you're enrolled in a summer or the fall? All right, and have your definition of success. Yes, we all define success differently. Some people like Success for me is having all this money in the bank. So success for you is really having a feeling of being financially secure. So also look at how that definition makes you feel. Because oftentimes, we overlook it. But what is the feeling you really want from achieving these goals? From creating these this plan and executing this plan? What is that feeling I get that it gives you is a security, peace of mind, happiness, joy, or pain, right? So whatever it is, be sure you capture how these things make you feel. Then on the other side of that, do you desire to have family one day? If you don't? Do you want to be an entrepreneur? Do you want to be a home owner, or maybe you want to be mortgage free home owner, right? Because there's a difference. There's a difference when you that homeowner with a mortgage and and at mortgage free home owner because you're looking at your job, like my house paid for I don't really need to be here, I can find a way to pay the electric bill to taxes and insurance, right? So really, really think about home ownership in two perspectives at least. Is it one with a mortgage and one without a mortgage? All right, and then do you want to help your child or children with college if they choose to go. So there are all these college financial plans and options to save up for your kids to go to college. Some of them are specific that if your child does not go to college, you don't get that money, or you have to transfer it over to your other one of your other children who goes to college. So some people have opted not to select that because they don't want their financial money tied into one avenue. And neither one of their kids decided to go to college, we really don't know what 10 years really gonna be like when it comes to college education, not only the cost, but other than lawyers, doctors, engineers who really are going to be going to college these days, we were waiting to see how education is going to morph and change in this decade. Because I can guarantee you it will. So these are some questions to ask yourself. Write them down, put a date to plan them out. Take some action. Don't just sit on your plans for the future. make them happen by taking a little bit of action every single day. Alright, everybody, I'm Michele Heyward. I'm gonna get out of here. I hope you have a great weekend and I will talk to you later. Bye.

Welcome, welcome everybody to career strategy Saturday, I'm Michele Heyward, founder of the tech company positive hire where I connect experience women of color STEM professionals to employers who are looking for you to fill their management roles as middle management up to C suite. Today, I'm so happy that we have Daria Rosen here with us. She is an IT professional, and her way into tech into STEM is a little bit different than what many of you may have done in your career, which is why I wanted her to join us today. Daria, how are you doing?

I'm doing well. Thank you.

Can you tell the audience a bit about yourself and how you ended up in it?

Yes, I can. I'm dolly Rosen, and welcome to all of you. Thank you for having me here today. Michelle. And I came a very circuitous route. I have a business background. And I actually fell into it. Michelle, did you want me to share that story?

Yeah. So this is a really, really funny story. Okay.

So I was at a job a temporary job that I did not care for standing at a coffee machine. I overheard some gentleman talking about a company hiring. So I asked him, Hey, do you think if I give you my resume, they will take a look at it. They said, Sure. Now, footnote, I don't know who those gentlemen were, I still don't know who those gentlemen are. But they did take my resume. And they submitted it. I got a call from the hire from the interviewer, where he proceeded to ask a series of questions. At the time, I didn't realize it was for an IP position. So he's asking all these questions. And every question I would answer, no. And during the interview, he said, You know, I have to buy their policy. I have to ask you every single question once I start, so it became a game, because each question he asked, I answered, No. So we're laughing and chatting. And he says, I have one more question. I said, Okay, let's go for it. And he asked the question, do you know, Microsoft? And after asked, answering about 49 questions, no. I said, Yes, I can answer that one. Yes. He said, Oh, my. Now I have to ask you another series of questions. So as you can imagine, if you've been talking to someone, and they told you no 49 times, what are you expecting for this next series of questions? No. Well, as he asked the questions, I could answer each and every one. Not only could I answer them, but I could tell him they were asking things like, under what File menu? Can you do this functionality? I could give him one option, I could give him two options. The reason why I knew the answers to the Microsoft questions, is because the job that I was in that summer, my only responsibility or my primary responsibility was to make sure I didn't break a report. What I did not know was that that report was in Excel. And so for the summer, I had purchased the Excel Bible, and I read all summer long, how to work in Excel. So I basically taught myself Excel, and the other Microsoft suites, so I could answer. So in short, he said, Oh, you answered all those questions. This is wonderful. So at the end of the interview, I said, What am I interviewing for? He says, oh, IT project manager. Now remember, I answered 49 questions? No. I said, what is that? And he described it. And I said, Hmm, let me ask you this. Because I was also a wedding coordinator. I said, you have a budget. You have a client, you have a start date and an end date, and it is your job, to coordinate everything. To ensure that it's done. He said exactly. I said, Well, I have the transferable skills, like okay, so I was hired as an IT project manager. The story gets funnier, because remember, I don't know it. So I'm sitting in these very technical meetings with I'm in a foreign country because they're talking things that I don't know what they're sharing. And I would say, could you please stop, pretend I'm a kindergartener and explain to me what you're talking about. And that's what they did. So I fell into it. But just because I didn't know anything about it, and the way that I had to learn it, it became a string. Because I could then go back to the, to the clients and the customers. And I could talk to them about the very technical things that they were asking in language that they could understand.

So Daria, What year was this? This this is the part that I want other people to understand what year? It is. She finds it buddies.
This was in 1996 96. Yes. So this was prior to y2k.

Yeah, so y2k. So so if you're thinking like, wait, I could not do this. But she has been with it since 1996. Learning what it is literally, in the mid 90s. And I can tell you, there were there were a lot of IT groups back then. So it was really IT consulting companies, right. And you're ordering large equipment and racks and stuff. So it was really interesting. She shared this. They're like, Oh, no, I have to have a career strategy Saturday, because a lot of us have a traditional track into STEM, we went to college for engineering or computer science or IT management information systems, computer information system. And so we ended up in it or something related, and you're like, I can answer the fifth question. But it goes to something I wanted to focus on, which is communication, the ability to communicate as a technical lead, and I wanted and I liked the way you said, you were able to take say, hold up, I need you to explain to me what it is. And and there's two questions in there. One is the communication skills. And the other being an African American woman in a room say, I don't know what you're talking about, you're gonna have to break it down to me. So I want us to focus on first on the communication part of being able to talk to other people who aren't as technical who or who don't have the technical. What I want to say understanding for what's going on, and how does that and how has that helped you in your career?

Okay, so I'm going to tackle the first part, in the communication, I have never had a problem in in speaking and being in a room full of men and feeling intimidated or that I was not worthy. So for me to be able to speak up and say, Okay, stop. I just need you to explain it differently. For me, that was just normal. And I think because I did wasn't fearful, I was not shy. I was even though I didn't know it, I was never looked at negatively. In fact, they kind of thought it was a joke. A joke, but they were laughing with me, not at me. And there is a difference. And so when they would explain, and I would parrot back what I understood, and they're like, Oh yeah, you got it, you got it. So the the, the thing that that communication is, is one is confidence. And two, sometimes you do have to laugh at yourself, because others are going to make might laugh at you. But just knowing it was my job to help them be successful, and that they were aware of so it was actually us working synergistically together. Because I remember I came from a business background. And when they would go into meetings, and they would talk to the business side, it would go over the business people's head and they come out going we are so frustrated. And I got to be the bridge because I understood what the needs of the business were. But then I also began to understand the limitations and what could be done or could not be done on the technical side. 

I like that the ability women oftentimes have a great ability to communicate and connect with other people. And I think sometimes we don't leverage it as much as we should. And I was that person like you were especially in construction. I could talk to the design engineer, but I had to translate it to somebody who was operating a bulldozer or it real He does, it really does help. And so let's talk about the community, the communicating with your customers. And because you had internal and external customers, internal customers, still were like the business unit, the business department, the sales department. And then other part of that, were your your customers, which had hired your company. So how did that communication work? And what kind of styles or suggestions could you give to other women when it comes to dealing with internal customers as well as external customers?

Customers? First, I'm gonna say customers or customers, whether it's internal or external, it, the conversation changes, the internal of setting expectation of what can be done, of ensuring that the customer knows that you are listening to them, because like most, most customers, most people, when they know that you're listening to them, and you're, you're hearing what they're saying, and taking that back. If you can tell them, if you can gain what it is that they are asking for, and translate that to someone who's technical, they can tell you, you know what, that piece of it isn't even possible. This piece is, but then being gone, going back to explain, okay, this part of your request, we can do this part we may not be able to do. So setting the expectation, both from the external clients, the internal customers. Now, there are those times when people are like, we don't care if it can't be done, you figure it out. And so that is the way in talking to the builders, the technical folks was being able to come up with ideas to give them ways to think about the box to draw questions from them, well, if it can't do this, what about that. So when I talked to it doesn't for me, it has always been when I talk to you as my customer, I am talking to you the way that one I would want to be treated that too, I'm letting you know that I'm listening to you. And that I'm going to work with you to the best of my abilities best both internal and external. But that's just my style
very informative. I like the way you said customers or customers and definitely communicate with them now, through your 23 coming up 23 years and it more than that in industry 30 plus years in industry at this point, what has been one of your biggest struggles and what have been one of your biggest triumphs wins in your career.


I'm gonna go with the wind first. And the wind has been. So when I started out, I was one of the technical other than the project manager, I actually transitioned to actually becoming one of the builders in the medical it in the medical it world. And because remember, I can I can I can think business I can think technical. So the win was Daria, we want you to become a manager. Now that was not what I ever wanted to do. I wanted to do my job, my job only. But I was convinced by a very, very good and dear mentor, to take on a team. And I did. And so when I say a win, is that throughout my career has been been the fostering and the encouraging of others to step out and to do more than they believe that they can do. So when I see many of the people who were on my various teams throughout the years and I see where they have gone. That to me is my biggest win. Because it's translating my belief in them to they believe in themselves. And then they many of them are just shining. That is my biggest thing and most of them are still in the IT field.


I love it. When you plant that seed. You honor it but you aren't always there to see it grow. And to see the fruit there. Yeah, I absolutely agree. It's good to go back like oh my god, the tree is there and has apples on it. Good. It's so good. Yeah,

absolutely. So the greatest struggle. The greatest struggle is when you know or when I knew what I was capable of and others didn't I didn't think that I could. And would would actually even tell you, you can't do that. And try to, I won't say sabotage, but to put things in to put in roadblocks to make, to try to make sure that I wasn't successful. That is, that was a that has been a challenge throughout my career, both in the IT side and in others. Now, the good thing is that it's like, okay, you put a roadblock, I made a sturdy your stuff than that, I'm going to try to figure out a way to get around it. And most times I have, so without, in most instances, messing up the relationships.
I would best cope. Corporate culture gatekeepers. So they, they're telling you what you can't do, because the culture of that organization is Daria, can't do that. But you're like, that has nothing to do with me. And and it's really important to identify who those gatekeepers are. And when you see those barriers, figuring out how to work around most of those we get into discussions, oftentimes, we're like, you know what, they don't want me to do it, I'm not gonna do it. And, to a degree, you have already proven them right. And, and, and it's not a right or wrong answer. Because sometimes you're just in a place emotionally and physically, we're in you can't work away around that barrier. You could be emotionally drained. So I can completely understand like, you know, I worked my way around, some of the other ones is like, it didn't happen. We were happy. We were having another discussion where it's talking about women of color, have a very small or if any window to fail. Correct. So we take into that as well into account as to whether or not we're going to try to do go around that barrier. Because we understand the high risk we then face when we do so. So yeah, absolutely.

Let me give you two examples where I was specifically not even subtly but very verbally told, on one instance, I was told, you will never ever be able to do this job. So don't even know why you apply. To in an interview, in an executive interview, one of the one of the interviewers said, when when asked by the person who was conducting the interviews, do you want her on her on your team? And to my face in the interview, he said, she's not going to be able to cut it at all, don't want her. Now, the person interviewing said you don't want to I do. Now, that is where I spent nine years. So I've worked with the person who told me, she's not going to cut it. And I always very nicely reminded him. Don't you wish you had gotten me on your team? So yes, you're sometimes told specifically and other times, it's very subtle, but you know,

you definitely definitely know who you are. Yeah, you can see a lot of mediocre progress further than you. Just mediocre coworkers. Let me clarify progress further than you just because of people's biases and inability to believe even even when you're doing it that when you somebody must be helping you know. So I absolutely agree. I want to go back to something else. You said that was really, really important and key you said mentor,
and I was like,

oh my are we getting into the mentor and discussion and we we Daria and I have known each other guests. It's been over a year now. And virtually I haven't met her yet in person. We have talked, I talk often about mentors, but I want you to talk about mentors because remember, she's 30 plus years and this is something we're still telling women of color especially about mentors. Can you tell us how you found your mentor? Why did that person become your person because it's probably more than one become your mentor and like what was that thing that says you know what, I want this person as a as a mentor for me.


The first person that that my greatest mentor the one who who convinced me that I should go into IT management there's I've always got a story. It's actually One of my girlfriend's husband. And at the time when I was working at the same company, I was in a completely different division. But due to downsizing, I ended up working with him. So at the very beginning, and this is a segue at the very beginning, I went into his office and I said, Okay, I am your wife's friend, now you are going to be my boss, you know how I am? I'm not going to change. Can you deal with that? He said, Yes. Then he said, I'm your friends have been, you know, me, I'm not going to change. Can you deal with that? Yeah. So we set the ground rules of business and pleasure. But he knew what my strengths were, he could see things that they were there all along, I just, they just weren't really being utilized. So when he convinced me and actually it was more he basically because I kept saying no. And he said, No, this, this promotion is yours. And I'm like, Okay, I'll do it. But what as a mentor, what he did, and what I learned from him and do for others is let people do their jobs, do not micromanage. When they have problems, the door is open for them to come to you to feel comfortable with you to be able to say, What am I doing right? What am I doing wrong? Or can you give me some pointers, and then let them go. And that is what he did. So I was able to do things that I never ever imagined on that project, because of his mentorship. And the second mentor that I had was actually when I became a consultant, and it was that same type of, of management style of, you know what your job is, you know, what the company's goals are? You do you do you. And so when both of those people have let me be me have let me manage my teams, the way that I saw fit within the realm of the corporate structure. And it has worked. And that is how I in turn, mentor the people who have worked for me, and worked with me.


Absolutely, absolutely love it. I have a similar mentor and style. Some days I miss it. Oh, yeah. And for some reason, even on Twitter, I pick up mentees I'm like, what I do
so because they know they do to them.


Yes, that is very, very true. So I want to go into our last question, which is talking about finding corporate cultures that are inclusive, and diverse. And in your vast experience? What have you found to be your level of comfort or when it comes to inclusiveness and what that that diversity in that workplace looks like for you.


I've experienced both I've experienced the ones where there was not diversity, or nor inclusiveness. But the last two companies that I worked with were very, very diverse and very inclusive, with women, of all minorities all the way up to C suite. So I've seen both in those areas where it has been inclusive, you can see that it's not just in the ones that work. It's not just lip service, you can actually see it, you can see women, you can see women of color, in different leadership roles at different levels. And when you are a young woman starting out on your career, and you're looking around saying, is there anybody like me if they bring me in one to fill a quota to fill to fill a number? Can I see myself? And when you look around and you see other women in those places, you're like, Yeah, I can see myself if they can do it. I can do it. There's a vast difference. All right.


I believe that I haven't experienced it, but I believe it is easier to see yourself doing something if you see somebody else doing it. I absolutely do agree to that. And sometimes it takes that one or five to come first to do it. And it's like, alright, am I that person that could be cut out for this?

You might be that one. Yeah, if you're currently in a place where you don't see it, you might be that one because You may have what that company needs. And they can see, oh, you know what, there's a lot of benefits of diversity with color with with women. And, and to make it not just lip service. So you could be that one if you're finding yourself in a company that doesn't currently have it.

And I want to go back to something, some things that Daria specifically wrote down when she said she was in a workplace that was diverse and inclusive, she could see the diversity in all levels of management, and it wasn't lip service. So it's all levels of management is so many, it's not just white women in HR, right? It was not just, you know, a few women of color in middle management, it is all the way up through to the C suite. 

So it's really, really important when you are out looking at employee, as you're looking at your next career move, that you take into account what is currently in that existing workplace, because you need to understand what an inclusive workplaces can look like. But also understand and be true to yourself, Would you be willing to be that person to go in before it's diverse and inclusive, to make that transition, because it could be 15 years before it gets to that place? And, and and you can say, you know, I can stay three, four years and work on it. And then it's 12 years in and it's still not there, what do you do? So you really need to have make some internal decisions, when it comes to the type of workplace you want, where you want your career to go. And really pay attention. And the great thing is, back in 96, this wasn't always easy as pulling up a company's website, and seeing all of their people in management, especially with pictures, you might get a name. But if you see everybody name is Bob, Joe and Jim. Really good. And I some days I get married my mother, she named me, Michelle. And because of my pictures not up there making a certain assumption to that picture shows up. And I want people to know what I look like. And in some days, I'm not always happy. She named me Michelle. But anyway, she's happy, I guess. So we are going to take some questions. But first, I want to say Daria, thank you so much for joining us today. This is a great discussion on a non traditional track into it, but still encountering encountering some of the same barriers and wins that women of color face in corporate America. So thank you for having me. You are quite well, everybody. We will be back in April, focusing on financial literacy. This April is financial literacy month. So definitely, definitely join us then.

This is the dear corner office podcast for workplace leaders learn why Black Latinx and indigenous women lead and how to get them back. I'm your host Michele Heyward. They, I am so happy you are joining me today because I have another treat for you. I have another trophy, okay. You can tell somebody had me laughing in the green room. I won't say her first day started Marissa or her last day start with Li Mei be somebody with a similar name. So everybody, I want you to meet Marissa Lee. She is one of the virtual summit speakers for this year. And you don't want to miss her session. So first of all, Marissa, can you tell the people just just a couple of things about you like one one really like fun fact. And then everything else can kind of be like a little, just a little bit of your, your your back your biography. I'll say,

I'm gonna start with my fun fact, I'm giving you two because one, it's a proud fact, I am a firm parent, I have a Rottweiler named domino boss, Lee, he is a righty ambassador. So always put him on display because I'm proud of him and to be his firm mama. And the other fact is, I'm really into songwriting and singing me. So when my book came out, I had the opportunity to write a song to go along with it. It was my first song that was ever released. And I've been writing since I was in middle school. So that was something that was huge for me that I really liked to do. But it allows me to tap into the creative side, which I incorporate in the work that I do. But that's definitely something that I speak to. And it gives me the upper hand when we do karaoke. So if you're trying to do karaoke, call me up.

Because I will know the songs, and I can hold a tune, it's just a little bit. So um, so those are my, you know, my fun facts, but a little bit about me been in HR over 12 years. And it's always been HR for me. So when I started and I'll share a little bit more about my background, when I graduated, I graduated in 2009. And you know, the recession was going on. So I thought I was going to be able to land a job immediately, that did not happen. So I learned quickly about being resilient and being able to be strategic about gaining experiences. And he's positioning myself for the roles that I want. And so it was really a blessing in disguise for me, because it helped me lean into owning my narrative, owning my professional story out the gate, so then I could really set the tone. And then once I got that full time job, which was two years later, yes, my career accelerated. So that was I looked at that as my prep preparation season. And then that allowed me to be as be able to execute as I went forward.

So y'all heard that two years, and I know, some of you are like, Oh my god, I can't do it. And like you said, it's being resilient. Unfortunately, especially as black women, especially as like seamless, especially as native women. We often times are so as I call the company positive hire because we are often not looked at positively. And I refuse to let and so I literally named the company positive hire because that's what we are. And so, if we can be they can see us very negatively as as a candidate, and so I really like that. So it takes us longer than average, to get jobs unfortunately, even in a good economy. So thank you for sharing that much. So you got to to HR hunchy, and human resources. So what was like What was your first like gig like in HR? Like, what was that like?

Um, so my first one will after my internship was just like a standard HR internship, I would say I was doing high volume recruiting. And most of my HR experience is in the business partner space. I'm a business partner through and through I have experience on the I would say the Center of Excellence or expertise side more in talent. But I had the chance to start in high volume recruiting for a big retail company doing peak seizing recruiting for them. So that was quite interesting. doing screenings. Were for people sitting there too. You may keep the other guns they're leaving and they're not moving forward and having to manage to do that and all So with the group interviews and taking them through that process, but while I was there, it gave me the opportunity to expand because I knew I needed more experience. That's where my mind was focused, I was trying to position myself to get a full time job. And you already know, when you you don't have the experience. They're like, well, you need experience. And I'm like, that's what I'm trying to get, like, help me out here. That's what I'm trying to get. So in that role, I really look to see well, what else could I do? So I started doing zip code analysis, I started doing social media, I was doing orientation, I was really picking up additional responsibilities on my own. So then I can better position myself. And so I talk a lot about those additional responsibilities, or the responsibilities that are assigned the invisible labor that you get, and how you leverage that, to be able to position you for the opportunities that you're looking for.

Yeah, sometimes those invisible responsibilities are definitely more than we we want to carry. But that's a whole other discussion. So but I think it's very important that you bought up that utilizing the invisible responsibilities as an opportunity to position yourself because during your talk, you're really focused on position for impact, leveraging your power to pivot, promote, and post up. So I'm trying to figure out what is this poster was posted a post up is where you are in your position, and you are owning your space in your role. So where you are getting the recognition for the work that you were doing, you are being able to, are we still there, I will see you my show, I'm gonna keep going just in case. But post op is where you are able to position yourself, you get that recognition, you are operating in your full capacity as you are navigating in the role that you have. So it's being able to embrace where you're at at that time, and make it optimal, and make sure you're getting the best and the most out of it. So that's what post up means to me, promotion, of course, is you're looking to move up, or you may be looking to move out and up somewhere else. So really understanding as you look to excel in your career, where is that best place to be able to do that and what organization is going to nurture that and give you the opportunity to be able to do your belts in that space. And then pivot in is for example, if you've been out of the market for some time, you know, I shared not long ago when I started in my career, I it took me two years to find my first full time job. So being able to use your experience identify those transferable skills to be able to position you as you go forward. I see your back.

I was never gone. I was okay. Star first say she said she knew karaoke. I was like I'm gonna get the star her stage and go where did you go? 

Like okay, well, okay, I'm on okay. Tell me Beyonce you gave we gave her roll it Okay.

On it on it all day. I mean, you got it. You got to do that. I can't get the the OutKast song out of my head, but you get you get the point. So So you learn the skill set very, very early in your career. How has this information helped you further in your career? How to post up pivot? Like what what have you done later? And maybe even shown one or two people how to do it as well? Because you do career coaching as well?

Yeah. I think understanding where you're at in the journey is important. And that's one of the things I'm going to talk about during the session is knowing your lane, what are you really looking for, and sometimes people feel like it's the promotion, but it's not the promotion they need. It's, they need additional experiences to really position them for the role that they're going for, or they need to sit down and really get vision about how they're trying to grow in their career. So what my experience and expertise has helped me do is evolved the process of expanding how people look at talent growth and talent development. It is not linear. It's all over the place, but even with it being all over the place, it should be intentional. And so that's where I look to help people focus in on really getting clear on where they're trying to go. But staying open to how they gain that experience and expertise to best position them, and then own own their space on their power wherever they're at in their journey. Because you can get power from a position, yes, but you can get power from other places. And a lot of times people look at it as Oh, well, you know, I have this positional power, but you have so much other power, you can be tapping into some of the most influential people in organizations may not be all the way at the top, they may be in other places, but they know their craft. So they could be an expert that they go to or and other than that known entity, or they just have the ability to build those relationships so they can influence and share their perspective and opinion. So when we talk about power and speak about it, I want people to think about power more broadly than just you know, that one dimension of okay, well, I'm this leader, and I have this title, it goes far beyond that.

Thank you. Thank you for that. So I want to back up to a couple of things you said about your career. And because you mentioned some words, and and I know I was like I don't even know what that is, or you know, before when I initially heard it, and others may not because my audience is scientists, engineers and technology professionals. So you said the word talent, and we were talking about karaoke. So I want you to like first decipher, like what talent, what is this talent you're referring to?

So when I'm talking about talent, I am talking about the resources and I hate the use of resources, people in the organization that are executing on a certain job, you will see differentiation in talent, when you hear top talent, or you have your value performers or high performers. And what that means that is speaking to the aspect of when somebody has that talent or top talent, they have the potential to be able to move up in the organization, they shown aspiration, they shown the ability to be able to perform consistently, they shown the desire to want to be able to move forward. And as they continue to do that, then that helps to better position them as a talent and usually talent are connected to roles that are going to help an organization drive their strategy. So based off of data, it usually supports. Having top talent in your roles helps increase profitability. But that doesn't mean if you're not labeled a top talent, you don't have anything to offer, you can be a high performer you could be you can like what you're doing and just don't have the aspiration to continue to move up in the organization. That's what I mean, where people have to understand what they are looking for, how that connects with what their organization is looking for. And then being able to be okay with, okay, if my organization wants me to continue to go forward, but I'm happy here. What does that mean, for me in my career journey? Am I okay with that? And if so, being alright with that? If not, then what things do I need to do to position myself to, to be aligned with how the organization is trying to develop me and grow me? So those are different things people have to kind of pause and reflect on because a lot of the times what I've, what I hear when I'm talking to people, is there's this view of, you know, I just want I want to grow my current company, and I grow me, but what does that mean? What does that mean to you? And then how is your organization looking at growth, because they may be looking at that differently. And they may be differentiating the growth on whether you're a top talent, or you're a value performer, or, you know, whatever you you know, you provide to the organization. So there's a lot of things that are taken into consideration when you're discussing talent.

Thank you for that. And I love I love how you you pull that together. So if you're just joining us, this is Marissa Lee, she is one of the speakers at the women of color in STEM virtual Summit. This year, we are talking about raising the power in your career. That's how she is so if you miss the catch in the connection to power, that's what she was talking about. There are different meanings to power and to think broadly. And so I didn't mean to I like they know if they haven't seen it yet they're not going to understand what what you mean by power. Like, I like what you say, but what is what does that have to do with this? So last year, if you were with me last year, it was the power of you. And now that you have the power of You it is now raising the power. And so everybody, nobody don't follow this. I know it because I go yes, my right. On a journey, it really helped us grow. And so if you like, but I didn't go to the power of you still show up here, because you still have power within you. And Marissa and other speakers are going to be helping you raise that power, not only in 2022, but throughout your career. So definitely, definitely be sure to join us. So Marissa, before we get out of here, before we get out of here, what is one reason people should attend your session.

One reason people should attend my session is they want to bet on himself. And double, double the way out triple the payout, because you should be investing in you. And showing up is going to allow you to do that. So you can position yourself in the best way so bad on you and show up.

I love it. I love it. So join Marissa she will be live wins Wednesday, a week from today, again is Wednesday, February 23. At 7pm. Eastern time, you can check her out, you got to go register though, you got to go register where that's a good point. And I got a long link. So I'm gonna drop it in the comments. If you catch my assistant, we made a short link. But me being me, I was like, what's that? Like? When I go make up? I just drop him in when I gotta go look for somebody else stuff. It's not difficult. It's on the graphic. I just don't be paying attention. Delegation is delicate. Should you trust people and they were like, Oh, I gotta go copy and paste it. Yeah, don't follow me. Do better than me. Don't follow me do. Delegate. You're proud of me though. I delegate it. So it's sometimes that's raising the power in yourself is delegating work without a title to other people. Because, like, Yo, Mike, I need you to go out and check out the crew. It's such a such location. Like, okay, like, he did it. He did it. He didn't say nothing. Like okay, I like this delegate. Great, what you need Michelle, can you I got you like, man, it was nice to that nice and warm in that office during the winter time. I can see. I would just call their buddy. I was like it was that delegation came in good. Everybody, let me stop. We're gonna get out of here. We will see you next week. The Summit starts on Sunday. I want to get jumped to march February 20. At 7pm Be sure you go register. I will put up this banner. So you can go check it out. It has some link on there. And again, I will drop the link in in the comments. And again, it's summit 22 Women have got women of color and stem.com. It's a long link but I will definitely share it with y'all. So everybody, have a great night. Thanks for ReSSA for coming on and we will see you starting Sunday. Don't forget to rate review and subscribe to the podcast. It helps me grow. Visit positive hire.co That's positive hire dot c o

Daria Rosen is an IT professional, and her way into tech into STEM is a little bit different than what many of you may have done in your career, which is why we have her in this podcast episode!

What is up everybody, it is a another mentor Monday. I'm Michele Heyward. I'm so happy you have joined me here for mentor Monday, what is up. So it is end of summer, but it is still absolutely great time of year. I'm always excited to get on here and have dialogue with you about mentor Monday. So I want to talk about the struggle you can have sometimes with a mentor, and not the struggle being bad, but the struggle being you not being prepared, because I wasn't prepared. So from my meeting last week with my mentor, I thought I would switch it up and really focus up on the things that you should share, hey, dashboard, on the things you should be sharing with your mentor. So let's talk about that. First, share your goals with your mentor. And I know oftentimes they're like, Well, I just want to go talk and kind of get some information, see who I can, who they can connect me with, who they know how they can get me ahead. But if they don't understand what you're trying to achieve, they may be leading you down the wrong path. They may be connecting you with the wrong people, you in your mind think that you know what is best, but they may actually from their experiences in their connections, have somebody better for you. They may have some other resources that can help you move ahead in your plans and goals. 

Yes, that's number one. The second thing you need to be sharing with your mentor is your struggles. Oh my god, are you struggling with managing your team? Are you struggling with meeting deadlines? Are you struggling with a new software, a new system? Are you struggling with, I don't know your boss, your manager. Whatever that struggle is, or struggles are, share those with your mentor, get his or her feedback on things that you can do to get through the struggle, what actions you can take, what resources you can use, because it is truly truly important that you use your mentor to help you grow. They're not there, just to look cute peg our head. But they're really there to help you.

And they're spending their time effort. They're using their personal resources and connections to help you grow in your career as a woman of color STEM professional. Exactly. That is what they're doing. Now, you got to tell them about your struggles. But you also have to accept their help. There's like, but I can do it. Look, ya'll. What happened was, I went to my mentor. We hadn't met in like a month because she's been on vacation. And she had meetings and it was just really hard to meet with her because she's the president, CEO of this company. And so, we met for an hour. She's like, what? So how can I help you? Y'all I didn't have an answer. Like literally, she gets businesses all the time. She talks to people. Exactly. So you have to and I didn't know what to tell her. She was like, Well, yeah, well, this is how I'm doing my marketing. She's like, why I didn't know that. She's like, so when you talk to people when she's a wild give them my brochure. She said, I didn't know you had a brochure. Yeah, so she's asking me what how can she help me? I'm actually looking for a mentor a real estate or financial services. Ooh. Real Estate? Are you looking for somebody virtual in person? Financial Services, I don't know. Real Estate, uh, may have a few people. If you if you tell me what if you want to in person, or if it can be virtual, I might have a couple people who'd be willing to do it. Otherwise, I have to think about it and what kind of real estate are you doing commercial? Are you doing residential? That also helps you and and what and what kind of what are you looking for in your mentor? So I might I might be able to do that. All right. 

So you also have to ask them for help. But guess what you also get Hey, Alan, what's going on? You also get to share with your mentor your wins. And I know so so often in corporate law, well, I'm not going to tell my mentor until I get a new job or that new position or that new array, that new project, no, you are to share with your mentor, your small wins, because what happens is, they can help you leverage those small wins and build momentum behind them. So that you keep building up until you reach guess what the number one thing we started with your goals. So you're going to have to tell them your small wins, like Michelle, what is a small when you present it in front of a client? 

Oh, I do that all the time. But this time you did it by yourself. You set up the meeting, you had everything scheduled ahead of time you coordinated all of it yourself, right? Or maybe it is your first time presenting to the client, that is a win. Are you responsible for now really putting together the detail report that goes internally or externally about your project? Are you managing a team for your project? What are your wins, no matter how small or maybe your boss is out and said, Hey, you conduct the meeting, just send me the meeting minutes. Those are still wins, you need to share those. Now. You're probably like, I don't know about that. You have to share the small wins because they do add up. And you may not understand how to fully leverage running the meeting. Now, when you're tasked with running a meeting, especially if it's over, I don't know, a department a division, a billion dollar project, a $50 million project. take that very seriously, because you are being watched and maybe vetted for something going on? And you don't really think you are and even if you aren't you have to leverage that position. Residential says I want to open my own brokerage here. And here in New York, it's hard to connect with owners. Okay. New York, New York. Okay. I'll see if I can find somebody New York. I don't know, I just heard about somebody on a podcast. But that's a whole other story. Ask around. Okay. So be sure number four, you're sharing your wins. This is truly truly important. And most people do not do this. You need to talk to your mentor about how he or she is mentoring you? Are they meeting your expectations? Are they exceeding your expectations? Is it not a good fit, and you're both wasting your time, because you're not getting what you thought you were gonna get. And you need to have that conversation. 

Because the mentor can be like, Yeah, I completely agree this isn't a good fit, or the MS torque is say, I'm not leading you down that path where I think you need to be as here, you're a bit premature and trying to get there. So I want you to take these steps or do this type of work. So you may have to have a discussion about you reaching your goals and the path they want you to take. Because remember, your mentor is only giving you advice, it's up to you to decide if you're going to take it. In addition. In addition to that, guess what happens? As you're building that relationship with that mentor, he or she could say you know what, you're right is not a good fit. I know somebody else who is a better fit to mentor you. And I've already been talking to that person. I want to talk to you about that today, you will be surprised how when you communicate openly and you're sharing your goals, you're sharing your struggles, you're sharing your wins, right? And you're asking for help. Your mentor will understand whether or not he or she is really able to help you. They're able to direct you they're able to support you in getting what you want to get. I'm just saying. But if you aren't willing to communicate these things, it will not happen. So what is Michelle doing this week, I'll be sending over my marketing plan to my mentor. I sent her my brochure while we were meeting. I will be sending her a pitch email I want to send out so I can do presentations to organizations and I it really in a quiet state area. So I'm gonna go to Georgia. So in Georgia, the Carolinas and North Florida, I might go to Central Florida. I like the beaches. I'm just saying. So what are some of your goals? What are you working on? All right now that you need assistance with, right, what are some of those goals where you're trying to reach people?

So if you're in corporate and you know, for many, you're getting close to your review period. So what we're going to focus on next month is preparing for your annual review. Because you probably have not looked at those goals that you set back in January. If you are a very diligent person and you look at every single month, okay, every quarter, you may find out you have not reached any of them, you have not even touch them. You just wrote something down. We're going to look at what do you need to do to prepare for your annual review? Yes. And next Monday, I will not be on here it is a holiday and I'm going to enjoy the holiday. So if you happen to see some tweets go out, I'm gonna beyond if I am, it is not going to be mentor Monday because I want you to enjoy next week, Monday, if you're in the US, and or if you celebrate Labor Day, take time off, enjoy it, like I'm gonna be enjoying mine. But definitely, definitely enjoy yours. If there are no questions about finding a mentor, about sharing your goals, your struggles, asking for help, because that could seem like something scary. And it's not. The struggle is real. When you aren't asking for help. Make the struggle less real. Yes, make the struggle less for yourself by asking for help by seeking help. And sometimes that help can come in the form of a podcast, a book, a YouTube video, a seminar, and sometimes it can come in the form of a person that you call your mentor. So if you have questions, you need assistance with anything be sure you DM me over on Twitter. And you can also find me on Instagram and linked in as well with the same handle. Everybody. See you in two weeks. Have a great one. Bye