High-Trust Business Podcast

John and JJ Checki are a father-son financial planning team from Texas who cracked the code on using books to start conversations without being salesy. Their book "Spend Time and Save Money" has become their secret weapon for networking and building relationships.

John's been wanting to write a book for years, but it was JJ who got the surprise when he walked into the office one morning and heard "we're writing a book." What they created isn't just another dry financial guide. It's a relationship builder that people actually want to read.

The real genius is in how they use it. Instead of immediately pitching their services, they give the book away freely. JJ's been networking with it, and John's been handing it out in casual conversations. The book does the heavy lifting of explaining their approach while building trust.

You'll hear their writing process, how they avoid the book warehouse nightmare, and why treating your book as a living document beats carving everything in stone.

Show notes: https://mrstuartbell.com/podcasts/htb/144-save-money-have-fun-with-john-amp-jj-checki/

About John & JJ Checki: Website | LinkedIn

Your Book Is Closer Than You Think — You already say everything that needs to be in your book. 90-Minute Books turns it into a done-for-you lead generation tool. Get the Free Book

Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with John Iannucci, a lawyer turned private wealth manager with offices in Pennsylvania and Florida, about his book The Peace of Mind Retirement Planner.

Originally known as a trusted legal partner, John shares how his early relationships led to the initial, unexpected success in the financial services world, and as his approach resonated with clients, referrals started flooding in. This approach eventually led to his book aimed at helping successful business owners transition their businesses.

John's experience with his business and how his book has become invaluable in following up with high-value leads is fascinating, and again, there is a lot to take away from this conversation.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

I was getting referrals from life insurance companies, brokerages, life insurance agents who had stumbled upon a very significant case that they were having difficulty with, and so I was getting all these different strategies life insurance strategies referred to me to review, structure and help present typically to a client's sophisticated team of advisors. During that process, as I got to know those clients and I was doing this literally nationwide I would have clients invariably ask me if I would be interested in managing their investments as well. They got to know me, they got to understand my philosophy about investments and the financial services and the state planning, business accession planning, and I didn't know if I could do that or not. I wasn't interested in having a relationship with a broker dealer and being kind of controlled and constrained in which financial products I could recommend. And then, through a friend, I learned that I could create an independent registered investment advisory firm, which is what I did. I created ILG Private Wealth and again the floodgates opened up. I had so many clients and referrals from clients and other relationships that I had established over the years, that we started doing comprehensive, integrated financial planning for our clients.

And we quickly realized, Stuart, that in our opinion, the financial services industry was broken, that there was a lot of intentional confusion, we thought, being created by various banks and broker dealers who were trying to describe who was a fiduciary and who was not and what that meant. And, as you know, the industry got so wild that the Department of Labor suddenly decided it had to interject itself into that whole process to describe what we had to do as financial advisors, that what was considered to be in the best interest of clients, which was just astounding to me. At that time. I thought every financial advisor, just like every lawyer, should be operating under the fiduciary standard and doing exactly what was in the best interest of the client. So I didn't realize that there was all this argument and dissension and argument going on about who is and who isn't a fiduciary. But we realized that into the business was sadly broken and as a result of that, we formed a multifamily office that literally helps our clients with everything that touches their financial lives.

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

But, as a tax attorney, the other layer that we were able to put on was the importance of an active annual tax management strategy or program.

When you look at the statements of many broker dealers, for instance, you'll notice on the back of the statement it comes right out and says we do not provide you with tax advice. Well, oddly enough, finra, the organization that's tasked with governing broker dealers and the securities industry, says the biggest risk to retirement today is not market volatility, it's taxed. And so the largest wealth managers in the world can't provide their clients with any tax advice. It's on their statements. They tell you in writing that they can't do that. But as a tax attorney and an independent registered investment advisory firm, we provide tax advice to our clients as an integral portion of what we do for them on an annual basis. And so, as people realized that we were doing that in such a comprehensive fashion, we started to get referrals from clients who were happy with what we were doing, as well as other advisors who realized we were really creating a true multifamily office in that new paradigm of overall asset protection planning as the core of their wealth and estate plan.

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

I have very successful clients come to us with a stack of documents that says this is my state plan or my business succession plan. I don't have the faintest idea what it says. Can you help me understand what it is those documents do and what I can expect if I pass or my wife passes or if I sell my business? So they don't have that confidant to sit next to and kind of manage the team and interpret what that team is doing? And thank God thank God because my years have experienced, I've been blessed with the opportunity to interact with those people on a regular basis. So quite regularly I become that confidant, that trusted person that really manages the rest of the team and interprets what's going on to make sure that you know the boss is always in charge and understands what's happening and they're all pulling in the direction he or she has set.

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

It's really a process of educating them on the pluses and minuses of various strategies and helping them come to a conclusion about which strategy is right for them and their family, and then also convincing them of the importance of integrating their family into that process at some point as well, because all the best intentions of the world sometimes go completely sideways when a matriarch or patriarch passes, dies, and they never had a conversation with their family members about why they're doing what they're doing, and so we try to help them understand that we're going to educate them as part of the process.

We're certainly going to give them advice, because that's what they pay us for, but we make certain never to be in a position of kind of demanding they do certain things or strong arming them into doing certain things, because typically with those personalities they run away. They want to be in charge, they want to make their own decisions, and so ours is one of really kind of gently guiding them down the path they choose, after we've had the opportunity to really educate them on all the different options that they have.

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

And so I thought it was very important for them to understand that you're better off steering that ship than being dragged behind it, even if you put your head in the sand and pretend it's not going to happen, there are several ways in which that transition will happen without your cooperation, death and disability being two of the big ones. You're suddenly disabled and can't run the company anymore, and suddenly that team isn't prepared, your team isn't prepared. So I really wanted to explain. Given the fact that there are literally tens of trillions of dollars in family-owned businesses transitioning over the next five to ten years, I thought it was critically important for them to understand hey look, I have options and I should be putting together a plan. Even if I don't want to transition my ownership of the business now or even in the foreseeable future. It's critically important to operate the business in a fashion that maximizes the value of that business in the marketplace. Right, because it's some point. Your business will either go to an executive team or family members or, ultimately, the market, and regardless of which direction it goes, operating your business in that paradigm to maximize the value to a third party is the best way to operate your business going forward, and there are very specific things that the market looks for to increase the value of your business, and so I wanted to highlight those I will tell you.

There was one other really important fact I wanted to talk to people about in this book and give them a you know, a quick 50,000 foot view. So many clients who have children, where one is in the business and two are outside the business, think that to make their estate plan fair between their children, they have to divide their business up equally between those or among those children. And when you have that dynamic, when you set up that dynamic as a part of your estate plan, you're creating an habit. You'll have one child running the business, making compensation out of the business, and you might have two children who are on the outside as passive shareholders, looking for dividend distributions, looking for their interest to be liquidated or bought out by their sibling.

You're creating a very bad dynamic between your children when you pass. And so I went to some limit to talk to people in the book, and I do in person, about the fact that fair isn't always equal. Giving one child a business that's worth 20 million dollars isn't necessarily worth 20 million dollars if that child can't turn around immediately and sell it for 20 million dollars. They have to work in that business, and so I like to develop strategies that minimize the opportunity for that acrimony between children when you pass with a successful business. In my view, that's the number one killer of businesses in the second and third generation for successful business owners when they try to distribute it equally among their children and some of those children aren't in the business.

Stuart Bell

The solution not to do that almost seems more complicated in the short term but then obviously more beneficial in the long term. It was interesting. It was a point that I'd never particularly thought about. One of the things that you mentioned that has come up before, though, with other clients that we've worked with, is this idea of transferring problems coming up at the point that the succession plan is implemented, so the person passes away. The next generation are potentially fighting over the remains, and because the desires have been communicated very well, the problem then hits at that point. We've worked with some management firms in the past to write books where the client will write the book as a story of their life.

John Iannucci

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

Stuart Bell

But the idea of using that as a jumping off point when you were thinking about creating the book, your book that we're talking about, the piece of mind, retirements mind, retirement planner yes, I'm still in a whole day mode, my tongue isn't working quite as my head. So when you're thinking about writing that, there's two schools of thought when we're working with people, one is using it as a lead generation tool, so very much at the top of the funnel and introducing new people. And then the second one is as more of a conversion tool, and that conversion tool might be for warm introduction, so referral. So it's still a degree, but it's when that first no one knows me to someone who's aware of me either side of that fence. So do you see it more on one side of the fence or another more, introducing very cold people and using it in a lead generation sense? Or is a lead conversion tool? Someone's already knocked on the door and this is part of their education towards your way of thinking.

John Iannucci

And so it's been an excellent way to follow up with people I meet. It's not aggressive or offensive to them. It's actually educational. They appreciate it. They actually dropped me a note saying, wow, this is a great little read. It opened my eyes to the different options that I have available. I didn't realize I had so many options. So to me it's that great follow up after an initial interaction with somebody that I'd really like to get to know and see if we're appropriate for each other, see if it makes sense for us to consider working together, and that's how I use it. I don't think I intended to use it in that fashion before, but I can tell you that's worked out extremely well for me now as a follow up after that initial engagement.

Stuart Bell

I'm such a huge fan of writing a personal note and folding a page over and not only giving something to begin with, but you've put the intentionality and the thought and the personal connection to make it individual for them. It's no one who else does that. Everyone else out there is thinking in terms of adds huge volume in. If people don't convert within a day, then they were deadly, move on to the next. But hold brain and jealousy which, for if you're selling widgets on Amazon, then that might be a valid strategy.

But for us, where we're dealing with individual people, there's lifetime value, there's relationships. It really serves to bridge the gap and start to make a connection With the content. Sometimes people have a almost a scarcity mentality of I don't want to put too much in there because it will give the game away, which obviously is the opposite of the truth. So not so much when we're giving too much away, but in terms of the breadth of what to include, because obviously, with what you're doing and the varying individuals, I imagine that you could have been still writing at 500 pages and still have enough information in that. So what was the thought process around? Okay, what makes sense to include and what makes sense to it.

John Iannucci

You know, I love the book that our buddy inspired. You know who, not how. You know, dean Jackson being the inspiration behind that book I always talk to my clients about. You know, when you're a successful businessman, it doesn't mean you can be successful in everything, businessperson in everything. You can't become a lawyer overnight. You can't become a tax secretary overnight. What you've got to become an expert at is determining who can help you, not how you can do it. This isn't a DIY project, right.

And so you know, I reference that book all the time because, to me, that was a real game changer for me, not only for how I present my business and what I do, but for how I think myself. Right, could I have sat down and tried to hire a publisher and do all these things to write this book? Sure, and do it myself? Sure. But what I learned in working with you and your team, working with Dean, was this is a who, not how. This is.

You guys made this process so enjoyable and easy that I didn't mind dedicating the resources in the time to it, because it was almost an interview process with me, right, and it helped me get the information out there quickly better done than thinking about it next week, right, or next year, or I should have done it two years later. But you know your team was that who for me, or that's right, that who for me, and I try to explain to my clients as well when they're thinking about all these complicated strategies. It's not how do I address this, it's who, what team can address this for me in a manner that I can manage and be comfortable with right?

Stuart Bell

I think what I like particularly about the book that you wrote is this friendly, friendly but authoritative. I guess is mainly or friendly but knowledgeable, maybe more than authoritative. So you brought to it. It is a broad subject, it is a complicated subject. There's the underlying, without necessarily explicitly saying it. There's an understanding written into it that this is a broad and complicated and varying. It's a very personalized service for each person. But we've got this and, as you said, we understand it. So it's something that I like about the way that we do the processing terms of interviewing people and trying to keep their language and their cadence and tone of voice, because it does Again, the book isn't designed to be. The book isn't the product, it's not a story that's romantically perfect and it's going to win some awards for literature. It's people, to who you are and your approach and that personal element comes through. I was asked people do you get that feedback as a explicitly or kind of inferred from people? That is more of a personal connection than academic piece.

John Iannucci

We tell clients that managing investments today is a commodity Managing your stocks and your bonds. If you have somebody who's a true fiduciary and is doing it at a fair fee, the results you're going to get over a 10-year period or plus or minus in, you know, in the irrelevant amount. What's really important is all these other ancillary services that are so important to you and your family in the growth and protection and transition of your wealth that you know that's kind of what we're getting across. That's the information we're getting across to people, and this relationship, my relationships with my clients are really based upon personal relationships and personal trust that we will lead no rock unturned to help them discover the answer to their issue Right, and this book helps us start that process.

Stuart Bell

But, business owners across the board, the next five years are going to be game changing, because so much of the, so much of the nuts and bolts of the work is going to be commoditized. What isn't going to be commoditized, though, is that relationship and the trust that you, as a business owner, can build with someone so many people think of. I just want to get AI to build a book for me, and council is completely thinking about it. There's going to be a thousand other people that do that, but if you can create a process that gets your personal connection across your methodology, then mirrors the language that you use and the terms in which you talk, and then, with AI, by all means to amplify and leverage it and distribute it much further than you could have done two years ago. But, yeah, I think in the next few years, just to identify the relationships are going to be so much more key, because so much more than nuts and bolts will be commoditized.

John Iannucci

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

Stuart Bell

John Iannucci

John Iannucci was a successful tax attorney for 37 years when one client review changed everything. After fixing a flawed life insurance strategy, insurance companies started sending him their toughest cases. Clients kept asking him to manage their investments too.

What started as accidental referrals became ILG Private Wealth, a multifamily office serving successful business owners. John's approach is different because he comes from the legal world, not traditional financial services with all its baggage.

John wrote "The Peace of Mind Retirement Planner" to help business owners transition their companies. But the real value? It's become his best follow-up tool after networking events. Instead of awkward sales calls, he sends his book to build trust with potential clients.

You'll hear how relationships from his legal practice launched his wealth management success, why he calls himself a "fixer" for his clients, and exactly how his book turns networking conversations into million-dollar client relationships.

Show notes: https://mrstuartbell.com/podcasts/htb/143-being-a-trusted-partner-with-john-iannucci/

About John Iannucci: Website | LinkedIn

Is Your Book Ready to Collect Leads? — Most books sit on a shelf. This scorecard shows you if yours is set up to start conversations and bring in clients. Take the Scorecard

Today on the Book More Show, we are joined by Kevin Berwald, chartered financial planner, CMO of Catalyst4Growth, a sales team development organization, and author of Your Unicorn Client Acquisition Process.

Kevin has a great story, from running a successful financial services company to helping other professionals through Catalyst4Growth. We talk about how his book is now adding more and more value in developing that business and how a book is a perfect partner to one of their most successful strategies, helping people create a compelling professional biography for referral success.

Together, we delve into the psychology behind a book's authority, how this same authority translates into an authoritative biography, and how the right resources can make the writing process efficient and affordable.

This is a great chat, and Kevin brings some executable insights from a very successful career.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

I really haven't been anywhere else, almost all in marketing and distribution.

In 2021, i got the opportunity to retire and not have to work anymore, and as I sat back and was thinking about what I'd done over my lifetime and one of my early mentors I'll mention his name, he's Mark Shearer.

He's no longer with us anymore, but Mark used to always say that what you learn and what someone gives you, you have the responsibility at some point to pass on, and a couple of my friends reminded me that there are some things that I should probably put in a book. I was talking to a friend of mine who referred me to you, actually, and he was saying and I was mentioning I need to put this information in a book, some of these points that have helped me and so many other people be really successful in life as best I can, so that I can pass what he called knowledge torches onto the future. So it was really bugging me to do this and I needed to find a venue to get there, and so that's what happened and that's how I got to you And that's the first book that I put together in row.

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

But eventually, as I was not paying attention or thinking about work, i just had one. I had two people actually that said you know, you need to write this book And it just kind of came at me from and not that I hadn't wanted to. I had threatened over the years to write this book. In fact I'd written two more workbooks that were related to it but never turned it into something that could be, you know, publishing out there for anyone to eventually get a hold of. So it was kind of a little pressure but it snuck up on me There's that concept as well.

Stuart Bell

Like the whole Robert Cialdini persuasion type world of people come with perceived baggage of what a book is and the authority that it carries. That's a benefit for us as we're trying to use it, but it's also something that holds people back because they think you kind of switch into like the school mentality of oh, this is gonna be homework that's marked by someone else And there's all of this sitting in a cabin under candlelight and years of torturous work to do it, whereas the benefit these days is the actual creation of it is relatively straightforward. I mean, it's the process that we try and leverage to make it as accessible and cost effective as possible At any point. Was that something that was holding back as well, the kind of traditional idea that this is gonna be much more of an effort than it needs to be? Were you kind of held back from starting by that first step?

Kevin Berwald

But there is, to your point, there's no doubt about it that putting a book together, there is that risk. You're putting yourself out there and you're going to be critiqued in some way or another. So at the same time it's great to have professionals behind the scene that are really good at what they do, to prompt you and kind of help. You see things a different way, from a completely different angle, completely different industries to make it. So you have the confidence that you're putting something out there that's quality enough to represent you the right way, so that people will perceive you when they read or see the book in a way that you'd rather have them perceive and see. And that really was wonderful what you put together to help me do it, cause I'm not sure I would have actually finished it without that. I told you about where I was in life, but I might've just poked at it, but it was the process that got me where I'm going.

Stuart Bell

There's a point that I'm going to ask you about in a second, about how you pivoted, what you're doing, but to tie in with the AI conversations and the future pacing of that. This is really going to change over the next coming months and years, because the ability of people to get stuff out there, helped by AI to generate the stuff, means that the volume of stuff out there is only going to increase, and increase dramatically. So if you're in a situation where you're doing nothing as in the sense of not doing nothing, but you're not doing this, not putting something out there, you're going to get left behind by everyone that's putting out something. Now. The qualitative versus quantitative debate then comes in. This is going to be a whole load of AI junk out there, one of a better term. So it's not just a silver bullet. That means it will.

You still need a message that AI can amplify, but going from it's no longer a case where you can do nothing, i don't think, and being in a position where you can get that. First, get over the obstacles and hurdles and the fear of getting something out there. Know that the marketplace is very iterative and very fast moving, so hopefully that removes some of the barriers. It bridges into one of the things I wanted to ask you. You were talking about changing the from the first book, having a slightly different approach for the second, and that really came from feedback of having something out there in the world. So talk a little bit about that if you can.

Kevin Berwald

A lot of people never put that first and foremost. If you're going to surround yourself in a business three years from now with 50 more clients than you had today, or pick another number, it certainly is, in my opinion, a lot better if they're people that you actually like, get along with and think the way you do So, then it doesn't feel like work. You're just interacting with people that you enjoy being with, and that's really a very high metric on my scale of figuring out who those clients should be as well as being financially effective for your business, not being waste of time. People who will take your advice when you give it, people who are great referral sources for you, should also be in that metric of who your real ideal clients are And what the time horizon is of how long they'll be your client, and all those things need to be blended together, which creates really a different identity for every individual. So that's what we really coach to, and we find that if we can help people take whatever resources they have, including their time, and the amount of sales interactions they can actually have. If you configure I can, you know I can do 20 sales interactions a month. Well, if we can take those 20 sales interactions of the rest of time and actually apply it to the right client with the highest propensity and probability to do business with them, you never guess what happens. They make more money, they have more time on their hands because you're not spending time doing things they don't want to do, talking to people they don't want to talk to you And they're having a lot more fun. And that's what the book was designed to do to talk about seven or six knowledge torches that help you, that work around your sales process, of what you've been doing, to make you think and see differently, to be more successful. Now, the funny thing about that is because I controlled it.

We used a unique name title for the book So it wouldn't necessarily be overly recognized of what it was, and we use the word unicorn and it was a unicorn client acquisition process. Now, i know what it means and I can describe it to someone, but someone just on the street would look at it and might not really know what it is And that was intentionally done. And then now we've driven it down and changed the title So it actually has the word, but not so much that we had to archive the old book, just adapting the title and the cover to actually have the words referral on it and emphasize the world word client acquisition. So that was the first thing in the evolution, because now we want it to be more recognizable Now that I'm now that me and my partner and our business associates have started another LC where we can actually take on more clients, it's tough to really handle the inflows sometimes and you don't want to tell people you can't help them or be able to be as assertive them. So but now that we have, we've changed the title to make it a little more, i guess, less opaque and more transparent as to what it is And then switch the contact information over to the new LLC from the old one.

I guess I could go to the next point and then I could tell you about what you were kind of alluding to was. We put this book out and it had six knowledge torches in it that have to do with setting goals, who your ideal client profile is like. We were just talking about how to set the stage for what you're going to do before you take off. You're prepared when you're there, opening conversations using note taking, which is it sounds so blasé, but if you're an effective note taker, know how to use it to control a situation and influence people. It's so strong to be able to learn how to do that and listen and then quantifying the value of what you do and how to ask people to do business with you. You put those things out there in this book and you never know which one's going to resonate the most. And the most interesting thing about this book is that what resonated the most isn't in any of the six knowledge torches up front. It was something that was buried back in the setting the stage portion, which is creating an individual professional biography that is used as an introduction tool by your referral sources to introduce you to other people and solve some of the primary problems of why it's so hard to get those introductions to your ideal client profile once you figure it out who it is.

And the biggest thing, the biggest hurdle is if anyone's watching this and they just listen to this one point. This is one thing they should tee into and I'll set it up with a question about anything I'm going to say. This is the point that resonates the most with most people. I ask, if I asked anyone listening to this podcast, if I went to their current clients and I asked them this question would you refer people to this person who's serving you in whatever way? right now I wouldn't say it that way, but I can't say it in a specific occupation, it's. Would you refer people to that? And you know what they say. And I would say nine times, eight times out of 10, without any further thought. They always say of course I would.

Now, if you let that sink in just a little bit, you would think holy cow, people just need to be asking for more introduction to referrals. But they always not always, i would say at least half the time. After that they pause and they say but who would I introduce them to? And number two how would I do it? Right, see, we talked earlier about losing weight or playing the piano or getting better at golf. We all like to do that. But how? And that's to stop. You can't have something that stops someone to make some thing.

So the professional biography is a tool that has seven elements in it that help individuals think through who their ideal client profile is, what their value propositions are, a little bit about themselves and their personality. There's a few other things in there, but it's a tool that when someone has it and they want to refer someone to you, it takes the risk away from them to say here's a piece I'd like you to read And, if it resonates with you, there's a call to action on the bottom of how to get a hold of this person And they can do it with some really kind words. A lot of times it's just a text to somebody and they'll copy me in on the text or they'll email it and they'll copy me in on the email with some really hopefully glowing words, right words. Right Now I've been introduced without them having to physically introduce it. It's an easy process. They understand who I'm looking for or who the person we're coaching to is looking for, and they've already have their contact information. Yeah, it's beautiful.

Another way just to throw it that works really well is not just from referral sources. But say, i'm at the golf course and someone says, kevin, what do you do? You know I'll say, well, let me do this, let me give you my professional biography. Scan it over. It'll give you a real good impression and understanding of what I do and who I work with. And after you look at it, let's talk. Then what's your email or your text number or you know? just download it from phone to phone. But what I want is their phone number or contact information. Right, if it seems like the right person, yeah.

And now, key to all that is I'm controlling their perception of who I am before I meet them, and that's the most important thing. For an example I mentioned earlier about, you know, honeybees, and I have a farm where I raise bees and some people really love it. That's on this piece And my picture is on there, very specific picture that looks a certain way that's attractive to the audience that I want to work with. And I multiple times walked somewhere and someone said Kevin, how are you doing? I heard you wrestled in college. My son And they start talking to me for five or 10 minutes I'm not even sure who they are, but it's so read my professional biography knew that I raised these or I wrestled, or I live on an island and there's boats in my backyard, love the fish and hunt.

Whatever it is, they get to know me first, and so isn't that what we really want And is the connection of those ideal client profiles that we can talk to you and do life with, that are financially symbiotic with us, that can refer us to more people like that right, and what's the easiest way possible for us to be introduced to them and connect without a lot of risk. And that's what this is all about And that's what the second book is. That we pulled out of the first book because we didn't know what was going to be which would resonate the most. That was it, and so now we're taking the second book that we're in process with you right now to work just on the development and working on the professional biography as a referral and introduction tool.

Stuart Bell

And it's so insightful as you speak, and someone who's been through that process because sometimes we'll talk to people about okay, you need to, we'll try and pull out from them which are the most resonating elements, but sometimes it's difficult. I mean, we're talking about creating books, which is sometimes enough of a mental load for people just to pull the stuff together. We don't want to stop the track completely, waiting for answers to these questions that people might find difficult, but to have that flexibility to change afterwards and then double down. So, the clients that you're now working with the second book and those people who you're trying to help, that group of people who are inspired by the professional bio and that's the thing that is resonating with them is that the same group of people that were around in the first instance the older clients so are these? is it kind of bridging off now into a separate group?

Kevin Berwald

Well, now we've morphed over to our second book, our second business, which is called Catalyst for Growth, where we actually work with individuals to find those one percentage points of improvement where, if we can find and make it just a little bit better in what they do, the composite of all those one percent improvements creates all those catalysts, create a movement for them to just grow their business substantially. So that's what we're doing now. Part of that what we want to do in working with the same clients we did before, but now broadening the base as well, because we've got more people to work with us now is we want to figure out what that piece is which will draw them to the website. So we're going to expand it And so the second book, which will be done pretty well who knows should be done could be done. Right now Just can't get 15-aged boys that are in La Crosse and swimming and all kinds of stuff. But when that's done they'll get this book, hopefully by referral, and they'll start working and they'll realize I need a tool to complete this piece. And so I suggest right up front that they go to our website, which is catalyst, the number four, numeralforgrowthorg, catalystforgrowthorg And they'll find the biography generator.

So when we talk about all seven elements, the question is okay, just the first part. Your picture that you use sounds like it's not important, but if anyone, i've been married for 20 years but I hear dating apps have swipe left and right. Allegedly You want to be attracted to your audience And in fact I was taught public speaking in the 90s by Adina Communications at a major university, and I'll just add this quick 30-second story because it pinpoints what I'm going to say. Next, you go into his class of freshman. There's an auditorium picture, a couple hundred kids looking down. They were in high school a few months earlier. Now they're in college and probably all been out partying whatever they've been doing as they go on to do beginning of the semester.

And he would walk up on stage and he would say all right, everybody grab a pencil and paper and I want you to write down the answers to these questions What kind of car do I drive? What kind of pet do I have? What's a political persuasion am I? What's my net worth? He'd ask four or five questions like that. Right, everybody just writes down feverishly. When they're done writing, he would throw up the syllabus for the semester and he would start talking and within a minute or less someone would raise their hand and say professor, what is the answer to these questions that you just gave us? And he'd say the answer is just like it is for you.

When someone meets you for the very first time, they will create hundreds of biases and thoughts of who you are and what they think you are, and the problem with that is they only go away one at a time when they're proven wrong.

So when you introduce to your audience that you want to be attracted to, you got one first shot And so your picture has to be right.

What you say in your introduction about who you are another point, if I were someone listening to this I would key into has nothing to do with you personally. When you say it to someone, the only words you should say are the words that your client wants to hear, and nothing else matters. It doesn't matter how great you are, what your experience is, none of that matters. It only matters what they want to hear, and those are the only things that should be written in that first part, because they see your picture that resonates with them. They hear the words they want to hear. Then they hear some things about you personally. They say you know, this guy's not scary, i could hang out with person. That's what crosses the chasm before you get to your value proposition and what a great professional you are and the best at whatever you do, from cake making to whatever it is. You may be the best, but you know what They don't care.

Stuart Bell

So, the title of the book, the table of contents, the call to action and then, to a lesser degree, the content it's really, it's a whole job of work is that someone's out there in the world? they've come across you for whatever reason. This is just compelling enough that, yes, i want to take the next step with that minimum viable commitment step, to make a phone call, visit the website. It's the fact that it shouldn't be scary. Such an interesting take that, from a visual perspective in terms of photos, from a bio perspective, from how you construct your emails. It's all the same. It's all about what they're thinking and their next step in the journey. That just really resonated as he talked about it, this idea that you've got of starting the second business rather than the first business. So when we think about the job of work of the book, the first one seems like it was very much used with existing clients or with people who were in the world already, as almost a motivating or educating tool to take them down a path that they're already on.

Kevin Berwald

Stuart Bell

The second book, then, more of a lead generation tool, is going to a wider audience and hopefully through referrals, to a pretty significant path. Was that an active decision in terms of? okay, i'm going into the first one, thinking about it in terms of how it's going to be used in a more closed way. And now I'm going into the second one, thinking about it in terms of referrals, and did that impact the structure of it or the bits that you were including or the level of content? I'm kind of thinking that the first one might have been quite a deeper level of content and the second one might be more of an introduction level of content because of where it sits in that funnel.

Kevin Berwald

The second one because the professional biography. And just to circle back, when people read that they need to get this bio generator right, so they'll read the book and if they get anywhere into it, they're going to realize I need this bio generator. Where do I get it? They got to go to our website. So that's the first thing. So it's designed to help people, yes, but then move them to our website to get we can get, you know, the drug oh, i'm better contact how to resolve whether or not we're going to fit or mesh, have chemistry together, all those things. So it is more a specific, exact description to go through each seven elements and develop their own professional biography when they're done Won't be, i don't know, maybe a hundred and fifty pages, probably a hundred pages tops, i would guess, maybe less than that, but something they can read and say. Each element this is my element, this is how I build it, build it. The second element, this is go through each one of them linear, line by line, with the primary purpose of getting them to the point where they have their own introduction referral tool. But this is the crossing, the chasm point. This is where it makes.

This is what has really grabbed me in a couple instances recently, because if I don't build this book, i'm getting some. I don't know. There was Memorial Day, right, so I didn't get any in the last few days, but before Memorial Day I was getting at least one person a day calling me wanting to do this. So I didn't even know Right. So I need to send them a book because I can't spend three hours with everybody walking through. But if I give them homework to do most of the work, i can do 20, 30 minutes and be just as effective, probably more effective. So that's what it's designed to do is to get us, to get people into the website, to help people do their homework before they call us, so it's a lot easier to do. But here's the point that resonated.

Circling back to what I just said is doing two meetings in Tampa this year And in both instances, the first time I thought it didn't really, i thought it was just happened right. The second time it happened I realized no, this is fact. So of all these clients that were potential clients, so these are all prospects that showed up big whiteboard, i'm asking them a question you know, what do you want your business to look like in a few years? They say, and I say what's holding you back on the whiteboard? I'm writing down the things that are holding them back. Both times when I look at pictures going back, they both said the same thing.

Now it cycles down to one word, which is marketing. They don't know how to convey. This is what they were saying. They don't know how to convey their value proposition and what they do to the right group of people. That's all about marketing. They'll always say if I just had a better website. But what they're really saying, if I could just get my message out and say it the right way? Well, the interesting thing about creating the professional biographies that makes you write all those things down.

We found out. It was the stepping stone to their marketing program. So people would do this and then they'd come back and we'd see this robust marketing program that grew from that first piece, which was just starting, and creating the seven elements in the ideal client profile, And they had the profile with the biography, the professional biography, And that blew me away. They just needed the first step and the first start, which then leads back into what's our impetus to do this is. We get them to our website and then they want to build a marketing plan. We built marketing plans for all kinds of business all over the country, big and small, national footprints, local footprints. It's what my partners have done, more than me, But with their resources we put all these two things together And we're hoping it turns into something that looks like a lot more fun than even what we're anticipating.

Stuart Bell

Another way of getting close on time. I wanted to quickly talk about referrals. So the idea we talk about it sometimes in the beyond the book element of once the book's created, there's various ways that you can use it, the referral strategy being one, and this idea that, as you said, 80% of people would happily refer people to it, but what usually happens is you'll see them six months later and I'll say oh, did Bob give you a call. I told him he should give you a call, or oh you know what. I was just talking to Mary last week and I wish I'd have remembered and I would have made that connection, because people don't A recognize that a referral opportunity exists or B have that easy way to make the connection.

Like you were saying. what's the step that makes the referral So for the people who are creating the profiles, the bios? are they using it? Do they get that as well? Do they understand that referral opportunity or have they seen it more as? a I need this is something to do, but not necessarily thinking I need this because it works in this way. Does that make sense to you? Yeah, i know what you're.

Kevin Berwald

Actually, if you ask people what do they do, sometimes they say the silliest things. What they do It doesn't resonate with the person they're talking to And sometimes it makes people recoil. Right, it has to. Everything needs to be approached the right way and approached to the right client, and when the light bulbs go on that there is a process that's simple. This isn't the only one. That's just one way to do it. I'll give you another example in just a second.

But thinking it through and knowing it, like if you've read the book Think and Grow Rich, right, there's that point about having something in mind that you have centered on right. But the first thing is you've got to center on something. What is that person you're actually gonna see? And I use this analogy a lot when my wife was my oldest son's gonna be 17 this month And I remember when my wife was pregnant the first time And I never realized that I think it's like 6% of the population is always pregnant women. Right, i never noticed them, but as soon as my wife was pregnant, i saw them everywhere. Or the little red sports car you know if you buy one and the next thing you know, whatever car you bought last, you're gonna see it everywhere. And so the focal point is once you actually figure out who you wanna get introduced to and you figure out an easy way to do it and you incorporate it into your everyday process. You don't bring it out once in a while, you bring it out all the time. The professional biography is printed and in digital format with you always, whether it's on your phone or any client you're talking to, and it becomes habit, right. So here's how simple it really is. Not to blow up my whole strategy, but there's a book called Freddie the Frog. It's a little green frog.

I hear this story from one of my close friends. He worked with a guy who was with an insurance company 30 years ago and he used to. Whoever we talked to. He brought a little frog out and sat it on the desk and he said you know, i'm just saying this here to remind me to ask you a question when I'm done. And at the end the people are looking at the frog and they'd say what's the frog for? He goes, i wanna figure out who else I can introduce to Freddie the Frog. And he'd ask for referrals. Now, the first thing I've ever heard in my life. I could never do it myself. I have too much pride, but that guy led the country and refurbished a new business.

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

And, candidly speaking, i'll just tell you an all candor. But I just told you which was taught to me by multiple people a culmination of all kinds of people will help me be successful in life. I don't think I have a really original idea in my mind. It's all been borrowed from other people that I've been blessed to be, you know, schooled by and create something like this. But I can tell you that I've never, a single time, in all candor, i've never seen anybody not get more referrals by doing what we just did. I've never seen it not work. It is always work. The only time it hasn't worked is, as we talked about earlier. Some people will create a book and then, once they're done, it's like whoo, that's over, right. But they actually use it and show it to people and use some of the strategies to just get that biography of people to read. They've always gotten more referrals than they did without it. Yeah, we'd love to help people grow their business.

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald

Stuart Bell

Kevin Berwald retired from financial services in 2021 after 33 years. But instead of staying retired, he wrote a book and launched Catalyst4Growth to help professionals build sales teams.

Kevin's story shows how a book creates psychological authority that translates into real business results. His book "Your Unicorn Client Acquisition Process" works hand-in-hand with one of their most successful strategies: helping professionals create compelling biographies for referral success.

You'll hear how Kevin overcame the traditional "cabin under candlelight" mentality about writing books. He breaks down the psychology behind why books carry authority, and how that same authority makes your professional biography more effective.

Kevin brings executable insights from building a successful financial services company and now helping other professionals do the same. If you're thinking about writing a book but worried about the effort involved, this conversation will change your perspective.

Show notes: https://mrstuartbell.com/podcasts/htb/142-a-client-acquisition-process-with-kevin-berwald/

About Kevin Berwald: Website | LinkedIn

30 Strategies to Build Your Business with a Book — The playbook behind 1,200+ books that start conversations and bring in clients. Yours free. Get a Free Copy

Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with Jackie Campbell, certified financial planner, public accountant, and author of a new book Be Prepared, a great book that helps people create a peace-of-mind plan to support their family in an emergency.

She shares her journey in the financial services industry, starting with a love for math and stumbling into a position with a CPA firm right out of high school before transitioning into being a young female business owner, owning her own practice, developing a passion for helping people create financial plans that support their goals.

Jackie also shares the thought process behind her book and how it is a valuable jumping-off point for critical conversations.

This is a great episode with lots of actionable insights.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

But yeah, it was definitely a bit of a challenge. You know it is a man's world. I mean still in financial services. You know my husband works with me now he retired from another career And when we go to events outside of our area together they just assume he is the financial advisor and he is the owner of a campaign company. You still follow his lead. Yes, yeah, it's interesting. It's still a challenge, you know. But you know he always says, oh no, this is. You know, my wife is the brains. You know this is her company, you know, but it's definitely changed and improved through the years. I think it's much easier for women these days.

Stuart Bell

But a last couple of the shows that we've done have been talking to people where it's been much more of a struggle, much more of a real issue that they've actually had to fight to overcome. So that kind of spectrum. It's been interesting talking about the books as an extra authoritative piece that anyone can do. But it maybe goes some way to seek the box that psychologically helps people get past whatever natural bias that they've got towards establishing you as the authority And I don't think that was necessarily the reason that you did it At all, but any small element that helps overcome that. it's definitely interesting to have more conversations with people where that's been more of a thing that they've been thinking about.

Jackie Campbell

You know, and there's so much accuracy that is required in the CPA profession. You know the numbers need to be accurate. Nobody wants to overpay taxes by even a dime. You know those are all extra pressures. You know that come on someone. So it definitely provides a little bit extra challenge. But it's just, you know, if you're a fiduciary and you're confident in what you can do and really the ultimate goal is to help the client be the hero of their story, it makes it a little easier.

Stuart Bell

Again, if you look at stereotypes, the kind of bravado I'm just going to go in there and tell you what it is the kind of old, old, established career type person Going into organizations now and not even from the perspective of other things, i don't know, but coming in from the perspective of how things are changing what happened last year, what happened five years ago, the rules and the regulations and how they've interpreted all of these things are changing.

So, going in from the perspective of, hey, we're on this journey together. There are things that are always changing. We're bringing our expertise and capability around the rules and the regulations, but the interpretation and how we can maximize your individual situation is going to change by and by client Having that, being able to build that relationship with people and start the conversation from the set, from saying, hey, we're going to look at every facet, every option that we've got and really diving to make the most of it. Imagine that for clients, that's the thing that they're looking for. They're looking for that confidence and reassurance that they're in the right place and you are the person to get them to their finish line Right.

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

I'm a accountant. I mean we rely on them to know actually what the business is doing and what we're trying to achieve, not just come in and look at a number and give a view on it. It kind of transitions into the book a little bit. So the book is Be Prepared and it talks about helping people set up the Be Prepared for the worst-case scenario so they're not leaving their family with a difficult situation. When you look across the whole business and any book that you could have written, why pick that one as the starting point for conversations?

Jackie Campbell

For me I did the strategic coach. Unique ability and the way that I analyzed things is to be able to look at things from a 360 degree lens and getting at your affairs in order. That's just part of an important plan Being prepared, living in Florida with the hurricanes, we're always disaster prepared, working on that, talking about it, but also being disaster prepared for your own personal life, if you think of. We all, at the end of the day, want to be as organized as we can and be as helpful to our family, our spouses, our loved ones, and there's typically one CFO to the family, and whoever that CFO is, they have their own unique filing system, and you may think it's normal, it makes perfect sense. Yeah, but it's just about making sure that whoever comes behind you, make it as easy for them as possible and give them that, those breadcrumbs, so to speak, so that they can come right behind your financial life and just fill in if and when you're not able to do that.

Stuart Bell

I've been talking to people about going deep on a narrow subject rather than kind of superficial and broad. Really deliver value to that one thing because there's always a conversation to connect that conversation. The next kind of circle out. So what I really like about the book The Eurow is it's serving those two purposes. It's a great marketing tool because it is that people can resonate with it. Have that. I want that response. It's easy to consume, it's easy to get the feeling of progression and doing something and then there's a very clear logical progression to a further conversation and it's obviously that passion project. So, when it comes to what was included and what was included and what wasn't included, was that relatively straightforward? Do you have a kind of a clear view of what the table of contents was, what that kind of lands, and see what the landscape was when you started?

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

You know, i didn't want to be the hero, because that is not the purpose of this book at all. It's not the purpose of any of the 360 degree financial planning that I do for my clients. It's to help them be the hero of their own story. And I think that once I had that, it's like I want to be able to set someone up like my own parents, my mom, my dad, to be the hero. And you know what am I giving them? enough to be able to get that foundation started. Or you know the checklist and the important aspects of it. And once I figured that out, i'm like that's it. It was just smooth sailing from there and we got it wrapped up pretty quickly, i think after that.

Stuart Bell

So I think some people feel bad that this is happening. Could we talk about in terms of a 90-minute book and getting it to market quickly and kind of then responding and pivoting, potentially based on feedback. So I think people can feel bad about it, but it's definitely a forward. Progress is progress And as long as there's a prioritization there to make sure that it's not sat in the shelf forever, it's just kind of let it percolate long enough to get past whatever that hold up is and move forward.

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

And I think it's the benefits of a book as a marketing tool is the book has some magic to it beyond just some printed words on pieces of paper.

People have expectations of what books are, and books are kind of things that sound shells and should be revered a little bit, which obviously isn't true at all. But I think people get hung up on that a little bit and want it to be perfect before it even goes out there, as opposed to putting out something out there. that's a work in progress and bringing the audience along with them and asking for feedback and seeing if it makes sense and using it as a jumping off point for lots of any conversations. Looking back now and knowing that it took a little bit longer than perhaps you thought going into it, how comfortable are you that in an idea world or doing the next one? would you possibly get out there earlier that perhaps it isn't as polished and get your own feedback and other people's feedback but have it out there doing something, or would you still prefer to take the time to being more confident of the first version that goes out there?

Jackie Campbell

So you know it's not like the book was my standalone, the only thing that I have. It's just there, you know, to inspire someone and just to remind them. You know that. You know. Hey, this is important for me. She's spot on with what she's recommending here. You know, and just you know, clean up your messes. I'm a real big fan of that And I think the book is just a way just to get that message across, instead of just you know, lecturing all the time.

Stuart Bell

I often hope that's the thing that frees people up from whatever is holding them back from getting their ideas. I mean, you've been in business for 30 years. There's probably few situations that you haven't come across in the past. If you can create assets, whether it's a book or a podcast or something else, that kind of helps people start that conversation and take the first step. I mean, as business owners, there's people who are kind of passionately involved in what we're doing.

You sometimes just want to take people and shake them a little bit and say, hey, listen, this is the piece of information you need, or, hopefully, this is the piece of information you need to unlock a further journey towards something. Whatever access, we've got to have that conversation. A book obviously is a great one, but so are all the other tools. I think it takes some of the pressure off. A lot of people get caught up on this kind of school exercise of whatever your submitted report is. It needs to be perfect. If someone with a red pen is going to market and give you a passing or failing grade where this is the complete opposite of that, it's really just a start.

Jackie Campbell

But for many people they just want to make sure they've gone through those bad experiences And they've seen and have some really hard one wisdom of what didn't work from another family member and how difficult it was. So it's just to give them that reassurance that, okay, i need to keep doing what I'm doing or maybe I can make this a little bit better. Jackie's right, i need to at least use a password tool or something. And even if something is simple is making sure and write down the login to your phone. I mean those have really important consequences if and when it is time and it's important. So just making sure and going through some of those things. if you have pets, what medications are there on, what is their, who is their veterinarian, all those things. if your family members don't live near you, they don't know what goes on a daily basis. So it's just some of those little things that might be easily overlooked. And, at the end of the day, what I find is most of us just want to have that happy, epic, hallmark kind of life and really do what we love, have the freedom to have the relationships with who we really want to spend time with, and once we get to retirement, freedom of time is so important, but we forget the business aspect of it. So this is just a little general, you know, tap on the shoulder and just a great way to kind of get your affairs in order if and when the time comes.

And my perfect example was you know our photographs. you know, when we grew up, you know we had the old what, the one 10s, the codex and the Polaroids, and you have the, your photos. if you think about it, you have them in scrapbooks, you have still some negatives, some of the film, and then today you have those things still most likely, but you also have things on your phone, things on a tablet, things on a computer, things in the cloud. So that is the exact way that our financial life is. It's just kind of all over the place. You know, 30 years ago, tracking behind somebody, if somebody was sick and in the hospital or unable to take care of their financial affairs or passed away, eventually things would come in the mail And you would know they have an account here, they have a safe deposit box here. you would be able to eventually put the puzzle together. Now it's electronic and there's no puzzle to really put together.

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

I know here in the state of Florida we have unclaimed property and I just spoke to someone recently and they had some letters.

They were some unclaimed funds of about $6,000 that they don't know if it came from a relative or they don't know the underlying what it was, but it was money at a bank and they're like well, you know, i don't think I would just walk away and leave $6,000 sitting somewhere.

But you know, life insurance policies, things like that's ultimately where it shows up and then you know you just have to. It just costs more to actually get it to who you want it to go to. So it's just picking up one little tip to make what you have in your financial life a little bit easier. You know or you know I work with clients that you they become the successor trustee, they become the power of attorney for someone's estate and that's a real challenge. I mean, that's a real job for many and the more organized and tidy it is, the easier for that successor, you know. But putting that puzzle together they often have to hire multiple professionals to kind of figure everything out and just those little tips can save a lot of money at the end of the day.

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

Because talking with your parents about you know, hey, what's going to happen, you know when the time comes and you know, not everyone is open about the assets they have, where things are, you know how to kind of come behind and who's going to get what. So it just is a chance to actually start having those conversations before it's too late and then, even if it's just referring them to a professional, you know, i've always told my children. You know, if anything ever happens to me and your dad, you know this person is our trusted you know friend that's going to handle everything and this is the attorney that you need to talk to so they'll help you. You know, figure everything out. But not everyone is open and shares everything.

I have some clients who just have a family meeting once a year and they go through their my when file and they kind of tell them everything. Okay, if anything happens, here's where things are. They just don't want them to be surprised and caught off guard. A lot of that comes from their own experiences. But I think for that reason and just to you know, have an opportunity to continue talking to people we love. You know working with people, and now it's no longer with the internet, with zoom, and you're not restricted to just one county, one state, one community, it's pretty much worldwide and you know any little bit of impact and influence that we can have just to make somebody's life or confidence a little bit better. That's really the goal here.

Stuart Bell

You mentioned there people use the book as an opportunity for them to have conversations And I think that's a little thought of fact, particularly for financial planners, wealth management people, anyone who's dealing with that legacy conversations the opportunity now that you've given them something that they can use as a jumping off the conversations in their own family, whether it's the book or the folder. It's just having a reason for them to talk about it in a story where either they might forget or not have the confidence or the language or the comfort in raising it just at the dinner table. Now there's a reason to have that conversation, which is obviously just going to be beneficial because it gets their conversation going. I think that's a very underlooked opportunity or benefit of having the books that start that conversation. So time's gone fast. I really appreciate you telling me. Thank you for sharing your story with people. Where can people go to find out more? I want to make sure they've got opportunities to check out what you guys are doing.

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell

Stuart Bell

Jackie Campbell runs her own CPA and financial planning practice for 30 years. She's also one of the youngest female business owners in Tampa Bay's financial services industry when she started.

Her new book "Be Prepared" tackles something most people don't want to think about: what happens to your family's finances when you're not around to explain where everything is.

Jackie walks through why traditional estate planning misses a huge piece, how blended families make financial organization even trickier, and why your book doesn't need to solve everything, it just needs to start the right conversations.

You'll hear how she uses her book as a conversation starter with clients, why document storage systems matter more than you think, and her perspective on building authority as a young female business owner in a male-dominated industry.

Show notes: https://mrstuartbell.com/podcasts/htb/141-be-prepared-with-jackie-campbell/

About Jackie Campbell: Website | LinkedIn

30 Strategies to Build Your Business with a Book — The playbook behind 1,200+ books that start conversations and bring in clients. Yours free. Get a Free Copy

Today on the Book More show, we're talking with Vanessa Vasquez de Lara, a family attorney in Miami, Florida, about her new book The Florida Man's Guide to Getting Divorced.

Vanessa's expertise in family law and her passion for helping dads navigate this difficult time comes through in the book as she looks to provide support in the divorce process and resources to help much more holistically.

It's a great conversation that highlights the opportunity to engage with potential clients and the people supporting them by leading with something that genuinely adds value.

Her approach in working with other experts to create the book is also a fascinating example of the synergy of working with complementary, non-competing professionals to create a win-win for everyone.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

(AI transcript provided as supporting material and may contain errors)

Stuart

Vanessa

Stuart

Vanessa

So I've been practicing and doing only family life for quite a bit now and we love helping families, but we especially love helping men and helping and being able to bring some of the different issues that they particularly have to the forefront, which is why, when I decided to write a book, we decided to niche it down and have it be specifically to that target audience. They do tend to be a little bit more concerned, a little bit more surprised. The statistics are that women tend to file more often to start a divorce case. So it's actually something that men sort of sit back and sit around and are a little bit unhappy, but they're not necessarily taking that action and moving forward. So we've actually seen that a lot in our practice and that's why I thought that would be a good way of sort of giving them some of the information that they don't always know to ask and some of the information that they may not realize that they don't know.

Stuart

I can imagine I was divorced myself in the UK and unfortunately it was as amicable as it could be, but you definitely see situations where it's absolutely not and I can imagine the person being caught on the back foot of a less than amicable separation. There's so many questions and so many specifics to the individual circumstance. When thinking about writing a book, then how do you decide which is the right level of information to go with? because oftentimes we'll talk to people and we're trying to say or suggest being specific and target it for that perfect avatar and a lot of times the initial response is always well, it depends, this situation, it could be one and this situation could be another. Obviously, we know that people just consuming that information at the first level they're just really after the lay of the land. But did you have a similar challenge? You're deciding what the right level was to write.

Vanessa

But it's something that's important to think about. We don't always. We sometimes, as attorneys because we do this all the time think well, but it's common sense, you shouldn't be in your pajamas, sitting in your bed, court hearing. But you know, this is a really stressful process for a lot of people, and so sometimes what I think of is common sense. You're so stressed out and anxious about it that you may not realize crap, i really shouldn't be sitting in my pajamas, not my bed, during my court hearing. So sometimes it's about, you know, just kind of giving that reminder about some of the things that you really want to be thinking about, but maybe you haven't thought about.

Stuart

Because, just to say, it's common sense to you, because you're in it every day, and even if it's not the most complicated of things, like someone taking two seconds to think about it understands that you should probably put a shirt if they were going to court, then have the same approach of doing on Zoom, but people don't think about it because this is their first-time experience and get and then layer on all the stress as well.

It's an example of providing that friendly information that starts the conversation. So I often talk to people about going deep on one subject rather than superficially broad, because going too superficially broad it seems a bit bait and switch into. Well. Now the next step is you need to come into the office. Well, obviously that's the case, but you want to present it in a friendly way. I think what you've done is walk that line very well between. It is a longer book than traditionally do and the breadth of subjects is maybe slightly wider, but you've still walked the line very well in providing great information at a level that sits well and doesn't feel bait and switchy into well. Here's a couple of throwaway comments, but the only answer is to come in and see us. There's really value provided in the book itself.

Vanessa

So it might just be something that it is a broad swatch of topics so that you can kind of hit the different things that are sort of surrounded, from mental health to coaching, to image, to selling your house, to your bank accounts, to your credit, to your estate planning. There's really a lot of things that people don't always associate with a divorce or haven't kind of thought through that process, and that's what we thought to do is to continue that educational journey for people who are going through such a difficult time that sometimes you don't want to ask your friends, you don't want to ask people that you know you want to understand it better. So that's kind of what we wanted to make sure that we could provide that ability to get that information, send you to a place where you can get more resources and be able to really understand a little bit better about what you're getting yourself into.

Stuart

You're coming in with a lot of assets and a lot of resources and a lot of directions that you can support people coming in to the divorce world, but for many different entry points whether it's, like you say, dealing with the kids situation now, or dealing with their asset allocation, or even down to the image and getting back out of their dating I think not only do you have the opportunity to show people, no matter which direction they came in, show people the next step and the next step in this idea of the minimum viable commitment, these small little steps before they become a client. You've got lots of additional resources to put them in that direction. We've also got the opportunity now to reach people in many different ways. So now that the book exists, running ads or having talking points about any of those six or seven core subjects that covered it just gives you such a kind of a tentpole asset to talk about in lots of different environments.

Vanessa

I need to do better, i need to, i want to get out there. We gave you the information for the image consultant so that maybe you know you already passed your divorce and you don't need an attorney to help you right now. But you kind of wanted to figure out what you maybe you didn't know or what you should have known And that might be a resource that would be really helpful for you. So we provide the contact information for all of the experts in our book so that perhaps, if you don't need an attorney, maybe you already have one. You know that's fine, but now there might be other pieces that you know that you could really use, and we provide access to those experts that maybe you wouldn't have known about or that you would have encountered. You know, because that's not your world. It is my world, but it's not your world.

Stuart

Vanessa

And so we started from, you know, from the point of being able to provide that sort of wrap around service where I spoke about, you know the specifics and some of the different things that you need to be considering about during a divorce. But then we sort of wrapped around all the services with all of the experts, so it was one of those things that I thought would be a quick project. It did not turn out to be as quick as I had hoped, but I am super excited that we're finally we have it. I've got my copies that you guys sent me. I've ordered Amazon copies and we are getting ready to launch in two weeks.

Stuart

Vanessa

I am, i am very hopeful and expectant that we'll be able to reach Amazon bestseller. So, you know, we'll be able to kind of be able to share that with not just our potential clients, our current clients, people who just you know are in our community, but also all of the other co-authors and contributors with their clients as well. So it's kind of a really cool what I'm, what I'm hoping for, a really cool ripple effect.

Stuart

Vanessa

I only practice really in South Florida, which is Miami-Dade County and Brownwood County, but we can help on certain issues. We can help in all of Florida, like prenuptial agreements, things where the location as long as you have Florida law, the location doesn't matter. But the reality is that this is the useful book for anybody in Florida because it is based on what you know, what our laws are with respect to a lot of things, and it relates to things that are outside of the law, like I mentioned, you know, about selling your home and about your image, about your health, about your mental health, which are things that are not specific to and that's really to Florida. It's just sort of tailored to Florida because that's where we are and that's where my experts are.

Stuart

I was going to ask about something that's got in my mind but it will come back.

But one of the things he did mention.

It got pushed out by this idea of the law changes later, potentially later in the month or next month, even without the book being specifically written on, whatever the previous laws were or the new laws, the fact that the Rawson family law and the changes are going to be out there as a conversation to be able to topic, bridge off those changes and into the specific book. There's going to be a lot of people who are the subject's going to be front of mind now because of the changes And even though the book doesn't specifically cover those, to bridge off those conversations to have social media posts and videos and send emails out. I mean, you can imagine a scenario where sending an email out to all of the existing lists that you've got, talking in brief about the changes that are coming up or the fact that there are changes coming up, but hey, we just wrote a book that covers all of the fundamental laws or the basics just an opportunity to bridge in those conversations into something that you've got and starts that conversation.

Vanessa

Right now our law says that a dad only an unwed mother is the natural guardian of a minor child. Now they're changing that potentially to the unwed mother and the father who has signed the birth certificate are the natural guardians of a minor child. So that's really revolutionary and it's really kind of catching up to what the reality is, which is that many couples now are not married And so that has caused a big issue for our dads where moms could just, you know, sort of have all the rights to the child and the father has to go to court in order to get those rights. So we do expect that those conversations are going to be amplified if those statutes, you know, pass. And we're hopeful that this book, although it's for divorcing dads, it's really for anybody. It is just that we want it to make sure that the people who really need it and who are really, i think, searching for this type of material, would find it and it would call their names, because it is the Florida man's guide to getting divorced.

Stuart

So whether they're on Facebook or Instagram and they're seeing an ad, or whether they see a piece of material at one of the co-authors place of work, or an email that they send out, something that stops them, that says I want that.

the talent that you've got is nicely specific enough to be very there's no ambiguity about who it's for and to be able to stop that conversation.

Some things that are springing to mind around the law changes and the fact that the book now exists.

there's going to be a demand out there for experts talking about this thing, because news channels and other outlets have to fill a news cycle with something relevant to the moment, so they're going to be looking around for experts to be able to have a commentary on the things that are changing. So the fact that a book exists now reaffirms your establishes you even more as an expert, let alone the 11 years of history of the company and all of the people that you've helped. the niche set up of the title and the book and the fact that it is targeting it maybe not the group of people it's almost like the second group of people everyone kind of thinks I think primarily about the women in the situation which is maybe why you see dance court on the back foot but the fact that you are talking to these people. there's going to be a new cycle coming up in the next couple of weeks that is going to be desperately looking for people, So there's a huge opportunity to actively outreach on things like HR app, the journalists website.

Let's help a reporter out, right, exactly. So all of those opportunities. I mean the timing is almost perfect to bridge off some of those examples. You were talking quickly, a bunch of time. I know you're busy with the day-to-day work, not just chatting to me. So one last question quickly. then You mentioned that writing the book was the idea from the workshop and you jumped on it and ran with it very quickly. The process, as many things, is never quite straightforward as we hope. going into things, did you start the project and now that it's complete, the hope of reaching out to certain groups and engaging in a funnel type thought of reaching out to certain groups of people and engaging with them and then taking them on to the next step? Do you have that funnel kind of clear in your mind about how you use in the book and where you're leading people to the next step? Or is that kind of laid the track as it goes and kind of see what happens over the next few weeks now that it's out there?

Vanessa

Our firm, our initiatives, are really intended to although it seems kind of strange for a family firm, but I'd love to see people stay married.

That's typically not going to be something that I can help with once you get to me, but we have resources and we're trying to make sure that we're offering resources that are not just legal services. We've got a parenting support group that we offer as a free service to the community once a month. It's led by an expert therapist that's able to help parents, clients, non-clients, divorce, non-divorce anybody who's struggling with a parenting issue. We have that resource available for parents to be able to get that kind of support, with other parents having with the therapist and with other parents being available. We strive to really make sure that we are supporting not just our community of clients but really our community as a whole. We're aligned with a foundation that provides scholarships to underprivileged kids. We've got the Supreme Scholars Foundation. I created that after I lost my little brother during COVID. Our firm's mission is not only to impact people as they're coming into our doors but really impact in a much broader way.

Stuart

Vanessa

Stuart

Vanessa

Stuart

Vanessa Vasquez de Lara runs a family law practice in Miami and noticed something specific about her clients. While women typically initiate divorce proceedings, men often get caught off guard and don't know what questions to ask.

Instead of writing another generic divorce guide, she created The Florida Man's Guide to Getting Divorced specifically for dads navigating this process. But here's what makes her approach different.

She brought in experts from completely different fields. Mental health professionals, image consultants, real estate specialists. People who address the problems divorcing dads face that aren't obvious legal issues. Like how you present yourself in Zoom court hearings or what happens to your living situation.

This conversation shows you how to think beyond your immediate expertise when creating something valuable for your audience. Vanessa's book works because it acknowledges that divorce isn't just a legal problem.

Show notes: https://mrstuartbell.com/podcasts/htb/140-leading-with-value-with-vanessa-vasquez-de-lara/

About Vanessa Vasquez de Lara: Website | LinkedIn

Your Book Is Closer Than You Think — You already say everything that needs to be in your book. 90-Minute Books turns it into a done-for-you lead generation tool. Get the Free Book

Today on the Book More Show, we're talking with Rob Marr, business coach and author of a great new book, The Lost 90%.

We had a great conversation about his business and how he was able to use the work he's done with clients and the questions they often have as inspiration, and how it's a culmination of years of his experiences and insights in business. He also gives us a peek into his new venture, Finding90, and how it ties in with his book's philosophy.

It was also insightful to hear Rob talk about the power of iterative book publishing, and we discussed how the traditional publishing model can be laborious and costly and not allow for an iterative or adaptive process that comes from actually using your book to engage new clients.

Finally, Rob and I explore how to maximize the marketing of your book by creating downstream assets and amplifying the content in the most effective ways possible. We discuss writing for various social channels, bridging topical conversations to evergreen content, and reinforcing your book's message from the stage.

SHOW HIGHLIGHTS

Stuart Bell

Rob Marr

Stuart Bell

Rob Marr

The business kind of developed and then it's actually kind of split into two different spaces now. So there's my space, the Rob Marr business, where people bought me to come and deliver workshops and seminars and sessions and there's coaching and mentoring and so on. And then there's our large, mostly multinational corporations, typically in the US and Canada, and then the other side of the business, there's a new company that we formed last year called Finding90, which kind of relates to the book, and the thesis or the idea is that most organizations are missing that 90% of people's development, which is mentoring and coaching, and often the training element is that it actually should only be 10% of the development journey is actually treated like 100% of the journey. So what we end up with this situation is like a lot of training is used to manage performance or because there's a shortfall, or it's a kind of we better do some training kind of a thing, and then ends up being this cliff edge scenario where you were given some training, the training is done, therefore the person has learned their stuff, but actually we all know in reality, just receiving information doesn't manifest any skills at all.

So really I just wanted to kind of capture the idea that really we're doing a disservice to our colleagues in companies and corporations all over the world by not factoring in this mentoring and coaching piece. So really, that new business, finding90.com we're really being laser focused into a market that I've been working in for several years now with some really quite wonderful colleagues. Actually, our next book, with 90 Minutes Books, is going to be very focused on a particular niche that we want to use this incredible model to share some guidance, some suggestions, some structure to a particular market. So it's been a brilliant journey and it's been incredible to see something I've been talking about for so long, actually in book format, and being able to share that with other people.

Stuart Bell

We're doing a book titles workshop next week, which I need to send an email about, actually, but that idea of oftentimes it's that's the first step knowing kind of at a high level what you want to write about, what you want to engage people on, gets people thinking in the right direction.

But the next level to that, if you can tie it into a model that you've got your particular way of thinking, i think it just amplifies it so much because not only are you talking about training and development, not only are you talking about mentoring the only you're talking about some of the corporate values and benefits of doing it in this way but the fact that you can tie it into your model so that when you are eventually speaking with people there's some touch points all the way through the book. It's not just at a high level on the same page, but really all the way down. The elements that you're talking about and the way that you present it, the language and the references that you make. It's almost like self-reinforcing. Did you find that came naturally? Was it was a pretty straightforward? you were building the book to the framework, or did you start with the bigger ideas and then you had to kind of retrofit the framework in it to make it really gel?

Rob Marr

So we put the book out there. And then there was a few things I was challenged by of some of those points you just mentioned here around how focused is the book? how clear is it on its message? does the branding align to the business? does it really is it a good foil for what I'm trying to sell? and I thought there was some things we can improve.

Came back to you guys again, i have to say the service has been incredible. Just we're really well looked after, great support. We changed the color scheme, we changed the font, we changed even the texture of the paint. Everything was kind of just moved on another level. And then, even from talking to yourself just as recently I think it was this week just even sharing some ideas with you and getting your expertise, but how we can use this book and then the subsequent book to really focus in on our markets. When I thought about that, it's interesting what I started out with was this really broad idea and then I realized that some of the challenges with that are then you've got to find a really big market to sell a really broad idea to and The value of then coming back almost like we're bounding off that Massive barrier and then coming back and to go well, who is this for exactly? and instead of, i suppose, the question, end of being well, who do I want it to be for? which then brought us it into kind of a more narrow market, and then again, as you kind of gave me some great guidance this week, you can go more niche. So it's been a really interesting process.

I thoroughly enjoyed it. I have to say it's I've been a bit fits and starts with it and probably would have liked to have executed it a bit quicker, but that was all on me. But that time period stew I don't know if you've seen that with other authors or not, but the fact it took a bit longer was to its benefit in a way, because the actual creation of the book was quite quick. I mean, that's the whole point of the business. That was good. But because that was quick, that was nearly the golden it. Because it was fast, it allowed me to then use the other bits of time Which you could spend laboriously pouring over the message of the content. It allowed That to happen much more organically. So it's been just a really interesting learning process actually.

Stuart Bell

My kind of oil, as I'm talking to people, is traditional publishing and I keep air quoting all the time. But traditional publishing as the counter and the most the least effective way for most business owners to create something that benefits the business. Because the traditional publishing model is this big, laborious project That's almost carved in stone. It's a one-shot deal. All the money is put into that upfront And there's no kind of limbic time to think about how it changes and varies or to dial in the message. It's kind of like branding. When you go out to like a branding agency, there's so much work put into this big effort to get From beginning to end all of the elements the logo, the website, the email, the social media But like there's such a big thing that it doesn't allow for this iterative process of. Hey, i think I'm starting here, but I won't need the opportunity to dial this piece in. Yeah, i'll kind of of getting the 80% version out there was quick as possible, and then I Keep making the.

I can't remember who said Colin Powell or someone like that, or General Schwartzkopf or something like that. They're saying that no plan survives contact with the enemy, or Mike Tyson's version of everyone's got a plan, until they get punched in the face. It's not actually get it out there when we start using it. If you go with a more cost-effective first version that gives you like Mental time and financial budget changes down the track, so much more effective for most people Because we're not writers. Our job isn't to write a book that then sells for money and The book being the project, the product. Our job is running the business and this is just a very effective Lea generation and rapport building tool. So the opportunity that it gives, just as you said, to get it dialed in Now it's the response been. So.

You said that there was some feedback on the clarity of message in the first version. That feedback as it comes in. I think some people are kind of apprehensive of that And they almost want it perfect before it goes out there, whereas my view is definitely get it out there and then be collaborative with the audience, like this is a group We're all trying to be. We're trying to move the training game forward together. So I appreciate the feedback and, look, I'm trying to incorporate it here. Was that your experience, or did you have that apprehension that you wanted it perfect first time, and how did that?

Rob Marr

I've actually done a series of the series of conferences there in Canada just over the last couple of months, which is huge fun and just being able to buy a bunch of books myself, i bring them over, hand them out, and I was just really delighted with how people were grabbing them off the table and you know I was just giving the books away and and then people afterwards emailing me saying could you send me five copies, could you send me ten copies for our management team? and in some ways I won't know what they think of it because I'm no one's going to take the time unless I ask them to come back and feedback to me at this stage, but the credibility of having your message in a book and having you taking the time to do that is hugely powerful. So I think the feedback was helpful to getting it to a level where I felt super proud of it, and I am proud of it for what I wanted it to be. I'm not proud of it in context to eulises, but I'm proud of it in the context of did it capture my thoughts? does it share a simple message? is it easy to read? can someone pick it up and put it down and get a sense of what it is to work with me? or to some of the themes. It's been really powerful from that perspective.

So I suppose I would have been more apprehensive about the risk of doing a book but then working with yourself, your team. That that kind of left me then because it's like actually, do you know what? this is a really brilliant way to get into the market. As you say, get the 80%, don't get it out there, get the reaction to it. Because then your enthusiasm for the next one is like you're like, yeah, let's do it again.

Stuart Bell

So eventually having ones for different campaigns and whether it's as close as that or whether it's a little bit more diverse, like the different companies, the different organizations, different industries that you might be speaking to this idea of thinking about in the book as a conversation, starting point to a campaign, and I almost think that this day and age there's something more rapport building or relationship building with something that's imperfect.

I always wanted to call the company like practically imperfect books, because that kind of realism of, hey, we've got this model that works so well. I just wanted to quickly in and without all that overhead and the pomp and circumstance of a traditional book, just get this thought to you so we can start a conversation. It makes you much more accessible, yeah, and sets that tone that this is step one in a conversation. But obviously the next thing is we need to jump on a call or you need to check out this video where I'm going into more detail. So I think that's the second benefit as well the accessibility and the idea of building that relationship it's momentum too, isn't it?

Rob Marr

Stuart Bell

It's okay, I've got this thing, what can I do to amplify it in the most effective way possible? and I think for some people they come to it from the perspective of they're the people who wrote it. So you've got all of the subconscious stuff in your head, the stuff that didn't make it in the book, the bigger picture stuff that fills in the blanks. You've got the book itself, which is 10,000 words of actual detail and it's very easy to think about. Okay, well, i can, maybe I can do one post there on this and one video here on this, but then I've kind of exhausted it because I've talked about the one things. When the reality is from the receiver's point of view, the person on the other end of the social channel there may be seeing one in 10 things. If that would be a good result. So the opportunity you've got to write five things on there and five things on this and five things on this, the fear of repetition that we've got as the creators really isn't the same on the recipient side, because they just don't get the same exposure. So that amplification is very easy to generate a year's worth of stuff, a year's worth of evergreen stuff that can then be repeated. So you've got kind of like a perpetual cycle based on the content that you've now got And the unlimited opportunity to elaborate on an individual post or do what I'd heard I always call it topic bridging. I'm assuming I heard that from somewhere else, but the idea of topic bridging, so something timely might happen, but then you can bridge it into something evergreen that's in the book, that opportunity is really quite special.

The other thing I was thinking, as you were talking about using the books, as you were speaking at different events, the opportunity to reinforce that from the stage. So so many people will say, okay, there's books at the back of the room, go grab a copy. Or there's the bags that people sometimes get, there's a copy in there. But if you're really trying to reinforce the piece that you're talking about again, do it in a classy way, not kind of cheesy, overregging it kind of way, having the book there and say, okay, everyone, now we're going to turn to page five. See what we say there. We talk about this being a key element. Get your pen out, circle it, because I know that you're going to leave.

When we talk today, we're here for 20 minutes. You're going to see 10 other people speaking, but these things are really going to make a difference when you get back to the office. So we're going to have fun exercise together. Circle this take two seconds to write in the blank space what you're thinking is the key thing to make a change so that when you get back to the office next week you're not thinking all you know what. I really enjoyed speaking to Rob, but what was it that he says? we're going to fall down the edge of the page.

Okay, now we're going to move to page 10, we're going to do the same, and you can make a joke about it as well, or not a joke, but you can do it in a fun way. Hey, look, we're coming up on lunchtime. You've listened to a lot of people speaking. You want to get to food. I want to make this as easy as possible. Today here in the room isn't going to be a game changer for your business. Monday, when you get back in the office, all of the emails are going to come back in. A week's going to disappear. A month's going to get disappear. So there's ways of like gamifying it a little bit, and it's always exciting or interesting when you see people thinking about using things in these different ways.

Rob Marr

Stuart Bell

That guy said it. So there's some authorities. In fact, he said it and he's on stage. But now, okay, he said it and it's written in a book And in a week's time I've got the book on my shelf and I can refer back to it. So it kind of subconsciously Those kind of persuasion type elements of reinforcing it I think there's an element of that as well Could be used for good or for evil. So we're going to use it for good.

Rob Marr

Stuart Bell

Rob Marr

Stuart Bell

Rob Marr

Stuart Bell

Rob Marr

I do love working, i genuinely love working in America and Canada. I find that the enthusiasm towards learning, towards growth and development, is just incredible, and the positivity, the attitudes towards learning, implementation of the learning. It's really a different experience altogether, and I think when I was talking to one of my coaches very early on about this change and I was describing this event that I run and it was just completely like you know, those career high moments where you go, that was just phenomenal experience. And he said, see, you've had a taste of how you want to feel. And I was like that's exactly what it is. Just have a taste of that And I want to. I want more of that on a regular basis. So that's the plan really.

I do a tremendous amount of video calls, which is one of the advantages of Zoom. I mean, you're over there and I'm over here, and it's still able to kind of communicate seamlessly. So that is a very effective tool. But still, i love I probably do 10 trips over there during the year And they're always highlights, they're always memorable experiences, yeah.

Stuart Bell

Rob Marr

We tend to try and make sure that the cadence is more frequent for the coaching and mentoring, just to try and really transition the skills. The quarterly calls tend to be more problem solving. You know, like right, we've got this situation now. This is what we did last quarter, this is what we need to focus on this quarter. But no, it's this exclusively yeah, nearly exclusively the corporation. I tend to.

Some of it is by design, but I try to target companies that are international. So my clients literally range from Asia Pacific right the way across to the West Coast of the USA and Canada and kind of everywhere and everything in between. So there's a lot of diversity of people, of cultures, which I find fascinating. But it's the company have different objectives or the companies have different objectives, but my target is always to work with companies with great scope but also great internal similarity, so they could be usually typically multi divisional. So there might be there's a sales team here, there's a sales team there. There's a leadership team here there's. So the work is easily replicate not easily replicated, the people are all different, of course, but that there's synergy to it There's a channel I treat.

Yeah, i think the way I think about it is the. They're wonderful channels because you get to start to learn the culture of the organization. You start to see what's the way they work, what way they operate, how that differs in different territories And it allows it to feel, even though you could be working to two, three, four, five years at a time, you can feel part of that team, part of that business And you know it's lovely sometimes I mean I've had it said recently you know you're part of the family, you're part of the group And it's to me that feels very gratifying, being not just as culture consultant, being dropped into do a piece of work. But when you're someone that people lean on to talk about sometimes talk about nearly anything and feel that you can be helpful in some way, it's incredible.

I'm sure that's not the core to go back to your original point, that I'm sure that's not the overarching core, but gold businesses want to grow sales, they want to develop leaders, they want things to move forward. But I'm so blessed with the people that I work with that their overriding motivation is always towards their people. That is That really for me. That would be a cultural misfit if the company wasn't. Ultimately, it's all about my team, it's all about my people, the investment in those people. I'm very privileged to work with companies that have that focus the global organization. They don't get it right every time, of course, they don't not saying that, but The drive is there to want to do a good job for their people.

Yeah and then To be part of that is is incredible. So, yeah, they're nowhere better than North America in many ways, although, of course, there are exceptions. It's incredible companies in the UK, credible companies across Europe and into Asia, where they're, of course, exactly the same, but I find, on the whole, the culture in North America towards training, learning, development is, it's, untouchable.

Stuart Bell

Rob Marr

It's not just about delivering content. It's about actually manifesting a change of behavior in teams, in leaders and their attitudes and so on, and that's the work I love to do the most. So, first of all, have a think about where those changes might need to be, and then, of course, you could reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm usually pretty responsive on there with you'll find it less than 24 hours. I can shout out my mobile number if you like. I'm here if that's it. So that's 353-87-689-4928, and then email Rob Marr or rob at finding90.com. Any of those places are good to get hold of me, fantastic.

Stuart Bell

Rob Marr

Stuart Bell

So yeah, we definitely do that again.

Rob Marr

Stuart Bell