The Vital Center

How government can succeed in the digital age, with Jennifer Pahlka


Listen Later

Why does government so often fall short of its goals — or even fail catastrophically? Jennifer Pahlka, in her important new book Recoding America: Why Government Is Failing in the Digital Age and How We Can Do Better, offers what is perhaps the most incisive explanation yet for government failure, particularly in the realm of technology. This is a book that every policymaker should read and take to heart. 
In Pahlka’s view, declining state capacity has resulted from a political culture that prioritizes politics and policymaking over implementation. And government especially falls short of its potential for good when well-intentioned policymakers fail to understand technology, pay attention to citizens who suffer the consequences of poor delivery of government services, or emphasize outcomes over processes. She writes, “When systems or organizations don’t work as you think they should, it is generally not because the people in them are stupid or evil. It is because they are operating according to structures and incentives that aren’t obvious from the outside.”
Jennifer Pahlka comes to her granular understanding of government failures through long experience with the digital delivery of government service at the federal, state, and local levels. In 2009, she founded Code for America to attract technology experts to work on public problems. In 2013, she became the U.S. Deputy Chief Technology Officer in the Obama administration. She played a significant role in rescuing the healthcare.gov website after its botched rollout and helped to create the U.S. Digital Service. In 2020, California Governor Gavin Newsom appointed her to a task force to salvage the state’s unemployment insurance program when it collapsed under the weight of a tenfold increase in claims during the Covid pandemic. 
In this podcast interview, Pahlka discusses the complexity of government computer systems that become unworkable through decades of layering-on of technologies and policies, policymakers’ failure to understand why they pass laws that can’t be implemented, and the dilemma of civil servants caught between contradictory pressures to deliver outcomes while also adhering to the rigid processes on which their jobs depend. She describes how the government is caught in a hierarchical “waterfall model” of program management while the software industry has moved on to a decentralized model of agile development, and how technological developments are doomed by unworkable technical requirements that aren’t actually mandated by government policy — even though bureaucrats and contractors have come to believe that they are. And although listeners will share Pahlka’s evident frustration at the many examples of government failure that she cites, she also shares numerous examples of courageous leaders who have overcome structural obstacles and outdated thinking to deliver results and show what government can be at its best.
...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

The Vital CenterBy The Niskanen Center

  • 4.9
  • 4.9
  • 4.9
  • 4.9
  • 4.9

4.9

43 ratings


More shows like The Vital Center

View all
Conversations with Bill Kristol by Bill Kristol

Conversations with Bill Kristol

2,011 Listeners

The Lawfare Podcast by The Lawfare Institute

The Lawfare Podcast

6,285 Listeners

The Good Fight by Yascha Mounk

The Good Fight

903 Listeners

The Bulwark Podcast by The Bulwark

The Bulwark Podcast

12,218 Listeners

Hacks On Tap by Vox Media

Hacks On Tap

8,049 Listeners

The Realignment by The Realignment

The Realignment

2,433 Listeners

The Mona Charen Show by The Bulwark

The Mona Charen Show

1,341 Listeners

The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan by Andrew Sullivan

The Dishcast with Andrew Sullivan

820 Listeners

The Ezra Klein Show by New York Times Opinion

The Ezra Klein Show

15,966 Listeners

The Focus Group Podcast by The Bulwark

The Focus Group Podcast

2,546 Listeners

Shield of the Republic by The Bulwark

Shield of the Republic

487 Listeners

The Next Level by The Bulwark

The Next Level

3,040 Listeners

George Conway Explains It All (To Sarah Longwell) by The Bulwark

George Conway Explains It All (To Sarah Longwell)

3,507 Listeners

Bulwark Takes by The Bulwark

Bulwark Takes

875 Listeners

To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes by Charlie Sykes

To The Contrary with Charlie Sykes

729 Listeners