Anthony Foxx, Secretary of Transportation in the Obama Administration and Margaret Spellings, Secretary of Education in the Bush Administration, join Governors Bredesen and Haslam for a wide-ranging conversation, reflecting on experiences navigating divisions then and the changes they see today. They also share lessons learned while in office, from navigating relationships with the White House and Congress to memorable encounters with Dick Cheney and Grover Norquist. This episode was recorded live at Davidson College in September 2024.