There is a strange intersection between magic and belief. On one hand, magic requires a suspension of disbelief. On the other hand, magicians ought to know better than most that we humans are easy to deceive. This episode is all about real magic. Does it exist? Why do people believe in it? Jay speaks with magic essayist and consummate skeptic, Jamy Ian Swiss.

Werner Reich was sixteen years old when his life was turned upside down. His father passed, his mother perished in a concentration camp, and he found himself in Auschwitz. His peculiar bunkmate there turned out to be... a magician. That man--The Great Nivelli--taught Werner a card trick. And in doing so, he saved his life. Werner Reich has been a magician ever since. Joshua Jay delves into the fascinating life of ninety-four-year-old Reich in this riveting conversation.

Rafiel Torre will spend the rest of his life in prison. David Garza is free after spending 12 years behind bars. Both came to magic after being sentenced for their crimes. Now, they perform for audiences—one inside prison walls and one outside. How does magic look when stage props are contraband? When your cellmates don’t want to look foolish?  Or when the correctional officers think you’re up to no good? In this fascinating episode, Jay speaks with Rafiel from a prison phone, and with David Garza from his new life back in the real world.

The How Magicians Think podcast is a fascinating deep dive into one of the most elusive and secretive performing arts: magic. Join Joshua Jay, one of the world's most accomplished magicians, as he reveals the artistry and obsessiveness of magicians. Jay takes listeners around the globe to speak to the biggest names in magic, always in search of creative techniques and insights that anyone can apply to their own lives and passions. Joshua Jay--a masterful storyteller--will regale listeners with esoteric moments in magic history and quirky secrets of psychology. Through it all, this podcast attempts to answer this all-important question: what does it take to follow your heart and achieve excellence?