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What if heartbreak was the beginning of your empire?

In this episode of The Burnouts, entrepreneur and creative director Chriselle Lim sits down with Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni to unpack how she went from TikTok’s “rich mom” to co-owning Phlur, a $100M+ fragrance brand.

From the ashes of burnout and divorce, Chriselle rebuilt her life—and helped reshape how fragrance is built, branded, and sold. She shares the story behind Missing Person (the perfume with a 250K waitlist that changed everything) and how reinvention became her real superpower. 

Also: the bamboo tree metaphor that will stick with you forever.

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Phoebe Gates

Sophia Kianni

Chriselle Lim

Phlur

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About The Burnouts

As former Stanford roommates turned startup founders, Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni are building more than a business—they’re building a bold new conversation. The Burnouts dives into the chaos of creation, covering everything from personal reinvention and product meltdowns to friendship, finances, and fear. With top guests like Kris Jenner, Danielle Guizio, and Whitney Wolfe Herd, this is your behind-the-scenes playbook for building on your own terms.