The Burnouts with Phoebe & Sophia

If Gloria's vision resonates with you, the Gloria Foundation is continuing her work: gloriasfoundation.org

Chapters

00:00 Growing Up When Careers Weren't an Option

01:12 Why She Went to India Instead of Getting Married

03:53 Starting Ms. Magazine

04:54 Abortion Rights Then, Now, and What to Do

07:31 Responding to Workplace Sexism

09:24 Building Things With Other Strong Women

10:44 Reflections on Confidence

12:21 Fashion as a Political Statement

13:39 Why America Has Never Had a Woman President

14:36 Staying in the Fight Without Burning Out

17:40 Legacy and Advice for the Next Generation

🔗 FOLLOW US

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https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more.

How did Shelby Sapp go from selling rat poison door-to-door to becoming a 24-year-old founder making 8-figures per year? It's the same trick she uses to win arguments with her fiancé and pick the wedding venue she actually wants... In this episode, Shelby breaks down the tactics she's used that can win over anybody.

Shelby Sapp is a high-ticket sales coach who teaches sales psychology to other women. She started knocking on doors at 18 selling pest control, became the top first-year rep in the entire company, and was making $300K a summer by 21 — before going all-in on remote high-ticket sales and building a training program that turns servers, nurses, and bartenders into five-figure-a-month closers. 

Chapters 

00:00 - The Bartender Who Made $62K in Sales Her First Month 

01:16 - Why You Don't Need to Be Extroverted to Sell 

02:16 - From Zero Sales to Breaking the Company Record 

08:07 - Top Confidence Tips 

09:04 - Female-Specific Sales Tips 

10:38 - The Sales Trick That Closes Deals 

13:49 - Why She'll Never Take a Brand Deal 

14:34 - When to Quit Your 9 to 5 

16:28 - From Door Sales to High-Ticket Closing 

19:22 - Why You Have to Be a Psychopath in Sales 

20:14 - Using Sales Tactics in Your Relationships 

29:48 - Making More Than Him 

33:22 - If She Started Over at 20, What She'd Do 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/shelby.sapp 

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. 

Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

Barbara Corcoran is the founder of the Corcoran Group, one of New York's most iconic real estate brands, and a star investor on ABC's Shark Tank for 17 seasons. From being told she was stupid in school and her ex saying she'd never succeed without him to building a 1,000-person company and selling it for $66 million, she's become one of the most trusted voices in business and a fairy godmother to hundreds of entrepreneurs. 

Chapters 

00:00 - Her Biggest Failure Started in Childhood 

00:41 - 22 Jobs By 23 and Becoming Her Own Boss 

01:26 - The Boyfriend Who Loaned Her $1,000 

02:18 - The Insult That Built Her Empire 

04:37 - Marrying "Lucky Bill" and His Craziest Stunt 

07:42 - Scaling to 1,000 People and the $66M Exit 

09:18 - How She'd Rebuild With Only $1,000 Today 

10:06 - Her "Queen of New York" Vision 

11:22 - The 3 Traits Every Great Entrepreneur Has 

14:17 - Why She Bets on People With Unhealthy Childhoods 

16:52 - The Self-Tape in Her Head Until 35 

19:55 - Her Best and Worst Bosses Ever 

21:18 - How She Fires People (Always on Fridays at 10) 

22:58 - Getting Her Shark Tank Seat Back After Being Fired 

25:41 - What Makes Her Pass on a Shark Tank Deal 

27:49 - Her Advice to Her 20-Year-Old Self 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/barbaracorcoran 

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. 

Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

Michael Rubin breaks down the truth about the White Party, why relationships matter more than people realize, and how he thinks about building rooms where power, business, and culture collide. He shares how Fanatics grew into a $40 billion company, why he treats networking as a real business skill, and what most people misunderstand about success.

Michael Rubin is the founder of Fanatics and one of the most connected figures in sports, business, and culture. In this conversation, he opens up about the White Party, building authentic relationships, running philanthropy like a business, and the work ethic, resilience, and mindset behind becoming a billionaire.

Chapters

00:00 - Relationships Are Everything 

01:25 - The Meek Mill Story That Changed His Life 

05:19 - Why He Started Reform Alliance 

06:09 - Running Philanthropy Like a Business 

09:04 - The Truth About the White Party 

12:41 - Sophia’s White Party Fall & Meeting Jay-Z 

13:53 - The Only 3 Events He Throws Each Year 

15:19 - How He Learns by Talking to People 

17:16 - Spotting Young Talent Before Everyone Else 

17:54 - Dyslexia, Learning Disabilities & Starting Young 

20:10 - What His Kids Have Taught Him 

21:46 - Sleeping 4.5 Hours a Night 

22:30 - Recovery & Trying to Live Longer 

23:19 - Weight Loss, Ozempic & Not Taking Himself Too Seriously 

26:10 - If He Lost Everything, How He’d Rebuild 

28:02 - The Most Important Early Business Decisions 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/michaelrubin 

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. 

Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. 

Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

Chloe Shih breaks down all the best dating tips she wishes she knew in her 20s. Learn how to flirt, which guys to date, and how to build a relationship that lasts.

Chloe Shih is a creator, entrepreneur, and former tech operator who shares an honest look at modern ambition, relationships, and personal growth. She reflects on love, therapy, career pressure, and how the right partnership can reshape the way you think about success. 

Chapters

00:00 - Intro 

00:34 - What makes a relationship actually work 

03:32 - The biggest lesson from couples counseling 

03:55 - The “four horsemen” that predict relationship failure 

06:33 - Chloe’s advice on flirting and seduction 

07:22 - How she met Kevin 

08:39 - The disastrous first date 

11:43 - How Kevin won her over after rejection 

15:37 - The Facebook prom turning point 

16:43 - The 25-item partner checklist 

17:22 - What was actually on Chloe’s list 

18:36 - Why you should not date the person who only looks good on paper 

20:09 - How a happy relationship changes your career 

20:30 - Redefining ambition and “the bag” 

21:45 - Success without scarcity 

22:20 - Good mindset trick 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/chloe.shih 

https://www.instagram.com/jomo.pod

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

Eyebrows built a billion-dollar brand—and Anastasia Soare explains exactly why. In this episode, you’ll learn the “golden ratio” method she used to shape brows for any face, plus the business and personal decisions that turned a Hollywood brow room into Anastasia Beverly Hills. 

Anastasia Soare is the founder of Anastasia Beverly Hills and the pioneer behind modern brow shaping and the eyebrows of Oprah Winfrey, Kim Kardashian, Jennifer Lopez, and more. From leaving communist Romania with her daughter to becoming Hollywood’s “best kept secret,” she built a global beauty empire by mastering her craft, obsessing over education, and staying ahead of culture. 

Chapters 

00:00 - Why eyebrows define the face 

01:20 - The 80s tweezing mistake that started everything 

02:30 - Golden ratio brows (the pencil method) 

04:10 - Working at 12 in Romania + learning work ethic 

06:10 - Leaving communist Romania + arriving in America 

08:35 - Discovering the brow opportunity in 90s Hollywood 

10:45 - Quitting with $5,000 to start her own business 

12:10 - The early salon years + creating products clients demanded 

13:30 - Oprah: the moment that changed everything 

19:30 - Nordstrom + the live demo that sold the Brow Studio idea 

21:10 - Beginner beauty advice + how to practice products 

23:20 - Expanding beyond brows: contour + the kit that sold out fast 

28:20 - Biggest makeup mistakes and trends (over-contour, blending, laminated brows) 

29:55 - If you only have 5 minutes: the simplest routine 

31:10 - Why she refused “pencil-thin” brows (and what doesn’t grow back) 

34:50 - Building social early: Instagram, tutorials, and influencer community 

38:10 - Working with her daughter (including firing her) + running ABH together 

43:45 - Learning finances the hard way + funding growth 

45:00 - What’s next: innovation, expansion, and global markets 

48:20 - Advice for entrepreneurs: resilience, focus, and starting before you feel ready 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/anastasiasoare 

https://www.instagram.com/anastasiabeverlyhills 

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

Alex Cooper breaks down the business side nobody sees: how she and her husband Matt built Unwell up from a scrappy startup, how podcasting revenue really works, and what rules she learned the hard way negotiating $60M and $125M deals.

Alex Cooper is the creator and host of Call Her Daddy and the co-founder of Unwell, a modern media company spanning podcasts, TV/film, live events, consumer products, and a fast-growing creative agency. 

Chapters

00:00 - Alex on going “full circle” and revealing the CEO side 

02:00 - Building Unwell from Host to Founder 

02:45 - A day in the life 

05:20 - How Unwell makes money 

07:15 - The video ad revolution 

08:10 - Live events, merch, and consumer products as revenue engines 

09:05 - Launching the Unwell creative agency 

10:50 - Which division is the “cash king” (and what’s catching up fast) 

13:30 - Inside mega-deals: Spotify vs Amazon 

16:15 - Why distribution mattered 

18:30 - Agents, fees, and who should get paid first (her “wait—no” moment) 

21:10 - The hard rule: keep incentives clean (and avoid cozy backchannels) 

23:00 - The biggest mistakes: trust, documentation, and walking away from millions 

26:20 - Hiring top operators and building a high-standard culture 

31:40 - PE, acquisitions, and what it takes to go to the next level 

34:25 - Incentives for execs 

35:05 - How Alex and Matt split decision-making 

39:25 - Handling narratives about ambition, success, and being misunderstood 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/alexandracooper 

https://www.instagram.com/callherdaddy 

https://www.instagram.com/unwell 

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. 

Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

Rachel Zoe breaks down how to build a standout career in fashion before you feel ready. You’ll also learn her practical frameworks for getting dressed with less stress and more impact... 

Rachel Zoe is a celebrity stylist, fashion entrepreneur, and pop-culture icon known for shaping red-carpet style and building a major lifestyle brand. She shares the behind-the-scenes realities of creative work, ambition, and reinvention. 

Chapters

00:00 Intro + the pressure of “no margin for error” 

00:12 The Tommy Hilfiger break that changed everything 

04:12 Huge shoots and learning on the job 

05:12 The realities of styling high-profile clients 

07:07 Styling for *them*, not for you 

10:14 Psychology of styling 

13:21 The “uniform” method 

15:54 Top fashion essentials for all women 

18:24 Dressing for the job you want 

20:32 Photographic memory + how Rachel thinks visually 

22:43 Breaking into fashion today 

26:49 Relationship advice 

33:57 Work-life balance 

35:07 Why she joined Real Housewives 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/rachelzoe 

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. 

Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

Sahil Bloom had everything society tells you to want: Stanford degree, private equity job, money, status — but he was miserable. Drinking seven nights a week. 40 pounds overweight. Seeing his parents once a year. 

In this episode, Sahil breaks down the moment that changed everything: a friend calculating he’d only see his parents 15 more times before they died. Within 45 days, he quit his high-paying job, sold his house, and moved across the country to redesign his life around what actually mattered. 

Now the New York Times bestselling author of The 5 Types of Wealth, Sahil shares why money only buys happiness up to a point, how to build real wealth beyond just finances, and why “nobody is thinking about you” might be the most freeing advice for your 20s. We talk about quitting safely, replacing your salary with side hustles, AI as the biggest mispriced opportunity right now, finding a mentor (yes, including Tim Cook), building leverage through content, and how to design a life you won’t regret. 

If you’ve ever felt successful on paper but empty in real life, this episode is for you. 

Chapters

00:00 The Life That Looked Perfect (But Wasn’t) 

02:40 Private Equity, Status & Silent Burnout 

05:55 The “15 Times Left” Wake-Up Call 

09:30 Quitting a High-Paying Job in 45 Days 

13:15 Redefining Wealth Beyond Money 

17:05 The 5 Types of Wealth Explained 

21:20 Measuring Yourself on the Wrong Scoreboard 

25:10 Does Money Actually Buy Happiness? 

29:00 Replacing Your Salary Before You Quit 

33:10 AI as the Biggest Mispriced Opportunity 

37:00 How to Find (and Earn) a Great Mentor 

41:10 “Nobody Is Thinking About You” & Designing Your Life 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/sahilbloom 

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts 

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. 

Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.

Rebecca Minkoff built a global fashion brand from a $3.25/hour internship, a scrappy “I ❤️ NY” tee after 9/11, and one breakout bag that women literally stopped her on the street to ask about. With no connections and no safety net, she moved to New York at 18, figured it out in real time, and turned hustle into a multi-million-dollar brand worn by celebrities and carried everywhere. 

In this episode, Rebecca walks through the real story behind the “Morning After” bag, what it was like losing 70% of revenue overnight during COVID, and why most founders should think twice before raising venture capital. She shares hard-earned lessons on hiring and firing, betting on yourself, building a brand in the age of social media, and navigating fame through Real Housewives. 

If you’ve ever wanted to start something from scratch, pivot when everything falls apart, or build a brand that lasts longer than trends — this episode is your blueprint. 

Chapters

00:00 From No Connections to Fashion Icon 

00:18 Moving to NYC With $3.25/Hour 

01:19 Intern to Founder, Starting Her Own Line 

02:00 I ❤️ NY Shirt Breakthrough 

03:17 Betting It All on Bags 

05:43 Going All In, Quitting Styling for Good 

06:11 Networking Like Cash 

09:29 Building a Brand in 2025 vs. 2005 

10:17 Hiring, Firing & Learning to Let Go 

19:52 COVID, 70% Revenue Drop & Rebuilding the Business 

31:15 Real Housewives, Brand Impact & Mental Toll 

35:04 NFL, Amazon & Building Strategic Partnerships 

36:55 What’s Next 

🔗 FOLLOW US 

https://www.instagram.com/phoebegates 

https://www.instagram.com/sophiakianni 

https://www.instagram.com/beckyminkoff 

https://www.instagram.com/rebeccaminkoff 

🔥 FOLLOW THE BURNOUTS 

https://www.instagram.com/theburnouts 

https://www.tiktok.com/@theburnouts 

https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-burnouts 

📲 Support What We’re Building 

Phoebe and Sophia aren’t just your hosts—they’re the founders of Phia, a fashion-tech app helping shoppers find the best prices across retail and resale. Download the app and help us grow → https://www.phia.com 

About The Burnouts

The Burnouts brings you raw, unfiltered conversations with today’s top founders, creators, athletes, and culture-shaping entrepreneurs. Hosted by Stanford roommates turned startup co-founders Phoebe Gates and Sophia Kianni, the show goes beyond the headlines to reveal the real stories behind ambitious careers. 

Past guests include Paris Hilton, Chelsea Handler, Kris Jenner, Karlie Kloss, and more. 

Subscribe for the insider playbook to build your dream career.