In this episode of Thrive, host KL Wells sits down with Ian Vassilaros—a licensed therapist, business consultant, and coach—to explore the destructive power of shame and its hidden role in addiction and disconnection. Ian shares his professional journey into the heart of shame, unpacking how this often-overlooked emotion corrodes self-worth and drives human suffering.

Listeners will learn the critical distinction between guilt and shame—how guilt can inspire integrity-driven action, while shame depletes hope by attacking the self. Ian also explains how trauma and shame become interlinked, shaping limiting beliefs like "I'm unlovable" or "I deserve pain." Most importantly, this conversation reveals practical, empowering tools for "deshaming" shame—opening a path to healing, growth, and connection.

Key Discussion Points

• The concept of “seeing people as objects” and how it creates shame-based thinking.
• The crucial difference between guilt and shame—and why one motivates while the other debilitates.
• Guilt as a signal of misalignment with our values, and shame as an inherited lie about who we are.
• The connection between unresolved trauma and toxic shame narratives.
• How shame fuels addiction and self-destructive behavior patterns.
• The intense loneliness and isolation shame creates—and how sharing breaks that cycle.
• Techniques for recognizing shame-based thinking and developing self-compassion.
• How to support loved ones by breaking the silence around shame and offering presence instead of fixing.

Some Questions I Ask:

• What drew you into exploring shame on such a deep level?
• How does shame differ from guilt in terms of our internal experience and behavior?
• In what ways does shame connect with trauma and addictive behavior?
• What does it actually mean to “deshame” shame?
• How can those who love someone in addiction begin to release their own shame?

In This Episode, You Will Learn:

• How shame operates as a root cause of addiction, disconnection, and emotional paralysis.
• How to separate guilt (helpful) from shame (harmful) and reframe painful experiences.
• Why sharing your shame story with safe people can neutralize its power.
• The importance of self-awareness and internal dialogue in overcoming shame-based beliefs.
• How to become a more grounded support system for someone struggling with substance use.
• Why your struggles or mistakes do not define your worth—and how to reclaim your narrative.

Resources & Links:Connect with Ian Vassilaros

• 🌐 Website: learnmoveheal.com
• 📩 Email: [email protected]

📘 Books Mentioned by Ian

• Leadership and Self-Deception by The Arbinger Institute
• The Anatomy of Peace by The Arbinger Institute
• Bonds That Make Us Free by C. Terry Warner