Thrive While Loving an Addict | Addiction | Sobriety | Recovery | Relapse

What happens when staying busy becomes the only way you know how to survive grief?

After losing his son Zachary to an overdose in January 2020, Jim Horton kept moving. He read more than 50 books a year, worked out almost every day, taught skiing, and devoted 60 to 80 hours a week to the foundation he created in Zachary's memory.

For years, staying busy helped keep the grief at a distance. But when Jim's wife retired and he began slowing down too, there was suddenly space for everything he had been carrying.

Jim has joined KL several times over the years. In their last conversation, he couldn't imagine ever feeling joy again. This time, something is different.

Episode Summary

In this deeply personal conversation, KL Wells welcomes Jim Horton back to Thrive While Loving an Addict to talk about what has changed in his grief since losing his son Zachary to an overdose.

Jim shares how constant activity became part of his survival. Between exercise, reading, teaching skiing, and pouring himself into the Zachary Horton Foundation, there was little room left to sit with the pain. When life finally began to slow down, Jim found himself confronting grief he had kept at arm's length for years.

KL and Jim also explore an experience that often receives far less attention: how fathers grieve the death of a child. After more than six years of co-facilitating groups for parents who have lost children, Jim has repeatedly seen rooms filled predominantly with mothers, often with only two or three fathers among a group of twelve.

They discuss the messages many men receive about being strong, returning to work, protecting their families, and keeping painful emotions private. Jim also shares how a four-day retreat with other grieving fathers at a farm for rescued animals gave him a different way to understand and experience his grief.

Most importantly, this conversation offers something Jim once wasn't sure he would experience again: the possibility of joy. Not because the grief disappeared or Zachary became less important, but because Jim began learning that grief, love, and joy can exist alongside one another.

Key Discussion Points

• Losing Zachary to an overdose and living through the years that followed
• How Jim used constant activity to keep grief at a distance
• What happened when retirement created more space and fewer distractions
• Why grief doesn't follow a predictable or linear timeline
• The difference between moving forward and being told to "move on"
• The particular challenges fathers can face after losing a child
• Cultural expectations that encourage men to suppress vulnerability
• What Jim learned during a four-day retreat with other grieving fathers
• Recognizing a grief trigger and asking, "What do I need right now?"
• The fear that allowing yourself to cry means you may never stop
• Learning to experience painful emotions rather than immediately escaping them
• Why grief and love can sit beside one another
• Finding people who understand the path instead of trying to walk it alone
• Helping children understand that saying "I'm hurting" is safe
• Jim's continued work through the Zachary Horton Foundation
• Discovering that joy can return without diminishing the love for the person who died

Some Questions KL Asks

• What changed since the last time Jim and KL spoke?
• How did staying constantly busy affect Jim's grieving process?
• What happened when Jim finally had enough space to experience his grief?
• Why do so few fathers participate in grief support groups?
• What messages do men receive about how they are "supposed" to grieve?
• What did Jim learn from spending four days with other grieving fathers?
• What happens when we stop running from painful emotions?
• Can grief and joy exist at the same time?
• How can parents teach children that vulnerability and asking for help are signs of strength?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• Why constant busyness can keep grief at arm's length for years without resolving it
• How grief after losing a child can feel more like a rollercoaster than a series of linear stages
• Why many fathers may feel they don't have permission to openly grieve
• How asking "What do I need right now?" during a triggering moment can create a different relationship with grief
• Why the fear that "if I start crying, I'll never stop" often keeps people from allowing themselves to feel
• How grief and love can exist side by side
• Why finding people who understand your experience can make grief feel less isolating
• How vulnerability and asking for help can become important lessons to model for children
• Why joy returning does not mean forgetting the person you lost

Notable Insight From The Episode

Grief does not have to disappear for joy to return.

For years, Jim stayed in motion because motion helped him survive. But slowing down eventually gave him the opportunity to experience what had been waiting underneath all that activity.

His story is a reminder that grief doesn't operate according to a schedule. There may be periods of functioning, distraction, intense pain, connection, laughter, and even joy. One does not necessarily erase the others.

The love remains. The grief may remain too. But over time, there can also be room for life again.

About the Guest

Jim Horton is the founder of the Zachary Horton Foundation in Fresno, California, which he created in memory of his son, Zachary, after Zachary died of an overdose in January 2020.

Through the foundation, Jim works to connect people with support for substance use disorder and mental health challenges. He gives drug-awareness presentations to middle school, high school, and college students, provides community education on the use of Narcan, and helps fund scholarships for people transitioning from inpatient treatment into sober living.

For more than six years, Jim and his wife have also co-facilitated a support group for parents who have experienced the death of a child.

Resources Mentioned

• Zachary Horton Foundation
• Hinds Hospice, Center for Grief and Healing in Fresno, California
• Selah Care Farm
• On Death and Dying by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross
• Brené Brown
• Lewis Howes
• Ed Mylett
• Narcan (naloxone)

Connect With Jim Horton

Jim invites listeners who need support or would like to learn more about the foundation's work to reach out through the contact information available on the Zachary Horton Foundation website.

Zachary Horton Foundation

What does it mean to become the "fixer" in your family, and what happens when fixing stops working?

In this episode, KL Wells sits down with Justin Burgy, an author from Youngstown, Ohio, whose novel Not My Brother's Keeper grew from his family's generational experience with addiction. Justin first watched his father struggle with cocaine addiction. Roughly a decade later, he found himself confronting addiction again when his younger brother, the sibling he describes as his "shadow" growing up, began traveling a similar path.

Episode Summary

Justin and KL explore an experience many families affected by addiction recognize: beginning with advice, financial help, and attempts to solve the problem, then gradually realizing that love does not provide control over another person's choices. Justin shares how his understanding of helping and enabling changed over time and why he eventually learned to love his brother from a distance.

Their conversation also explores the enormous strain addiction can place on an entire family. Justin reflects on supporting his mother through his brother's addiction while she was battling breast cancer, the night his brother nearly died from an overdose in her living room, and the guilt and helplessness he carried afterward. Writing eventually became one way for Justin to process those experiences and give language to emotions he struggled to express elsewhere.

Key Discussion Points

• Growing up in a family already affected by addiction
• Watching addiction move from one generation of the family to another
• Justin's role as the "fixer" sibling and the responsibility that came with it
• Why advice and reasoning may have little impact during active addiction
• How genuine attempts to help can gradually become enabling
• Giving money and other forms of support before understanding their potential consequences
• The repeated cycle of treatment, relapse, and returning to treatment
• Recognizing that someone you love may not yet be ready for recovery
• Supporting his mother through her son's addiction while she was also facing breast cancer
• The night Justin's brother nearly died from an overdose in their mother's living room
• Grieving for someone who is still alive
• Reaching the point where Justin realized he could not fix or control his brother's addiction
• Learning to love someone from a distance without viewing that distance as abandonment
• The guilt that can accompany stepping back
• Writing and storytelling as an outlet for helplessness and unresolved emotions
• Discovering a wider community after speaking openly about family addiction
• Why rebuilding trust after repeated relapse takes time
• Remaining open to relationships even after trust has been broken

Some Questions I Ask

• What did helping look like for you in the beginning, before you understood what you were dealing with?
• Was there a point when you realized you couldn't fix or control what was happening?
• How do you continue loving someone from afar?
• What did you learn about yourself while trying to save someone you couldn't save?
• How do you carry the guilt associated with the times you needed to pull away?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• Why reasoning with someone during active addiction may not create the change families hope for
• How enabling can begin from a place of genuine love and concern
• Why repeated treatment and relapse can be emotionally exhausting for the entire family
• What someone's lack of readiness for recovery can look like to the people who love them
• Why creating distance can sometimes become part of loving someone through addiction
• How family members can experience grief even while their loved one is still alive
• Why speaking openly about addiction can reveal that families are less alone than they may believe
• How writing and storytelling can provide an outlet for difficult emotions
• Why boundaries do not have to be rooted in punishment
• Why trust often needs to be rebuilt gradually after addiction and repeated relapse

Resources

Not My Brother's Keeper by Justin Burgy

Evolve From Empathy

Notable Insight From The Episode

Sometimes loving someone means accepting that you cannot be the person who fixes what they are going through.

For family members who have spent years trying to help, stepping back can bring grief and guilt of its own. Justin's experience explores the possibility that distance and love can coexist, and that setting a boundary does not necessarily mean closing the door on the person behind the addiction.

About the Guest

Justin Burgy is an author from Youngstown, Ohio, whose writing explores addiction, family relationships, empathy, and the complicated experience of loving someone through substance use.

His novel, Not My Brother's Keeper, draws from his family's generational experience with addiction, including his experiences watching both his father and younger brother struggle with substance use. Through his writing, Justin gives voice to the perspective of family members who may find themselves caught between wanting to help and recognizing the limits of what they can control.

Justin also writes about addiction and family life through his blog, Evolve From Empathy, where he shares reflections shaped by his experience loving a brother through active addiction.

Connect With the Guest

Evolve From Empathy

What happens when the good news carries its own emotional weight?

Three and a half years into her son Sam's recovery, KL Wells is watching him experience milestones that once felt far away: a new home, a new job, and the possibility of a promotion. These are moments worth celebrating. They have also taught KL something she did not initially expect. Recovery is not only about learning how to move through pain. It can also mean learning how to experience joy, pride, change, and possibility without returning to old ways of coping.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Thrive While Loving an Addict, producer Steve Cary turns the microphone around and interviews KL Wells about what she continues to learn as her son Sam moves through three and a half years of sustained recovery. KL reflects on why positive milestones can bring complicated emotions to the surface and why families may need to remain emotionally present during the good seasons as well as the difficult ones.

Together, Steve and KL explore what it means to redefine success in recovery, move beyond "he stopped using" as the finish line, and recognize the quiet worry families may continue to carry even when life appears stable. KL also shares how she interrupts her own worry loops, asks more meaningful questions, and makes room for grief and joy to exist together.

Key Discussion Points

• Why active addiction can numb joy alongside pain
• The emotional complexity of experiencing positive change in recovery
• How milestones such as a new home, job, promotion, or relationship can bring unexpected emotions to the surface
• The question of worthiness that may emerge when life begins going well
• Why KL now asks more layered questions instead of checking in only during difficult moments
• Moving beyond "he stopped using" as the definition of success
• Redefining recovery as an ongoing process rather than a finish line
• The invisible emotional cost of persistent, low-grade worry
• How KL recognizes and interrupts her own worry loops
• Choosing gratitude while still acknowledging difficult emotions
• The relationship between addiction and grief
• Making space for grief and joy to exist on the same day
• What continuing to show up can look like years into a loved one's recovery

Some Questions I Ask

• What are you still paying attention to now that everything looks good?
• Why can a joyful moment carry emotional risk alongside a crisis?
• How do you check in with someone who is finally allowing themselves to feel proud?
• What does it mean to redefine success in recovery rather than stopping at "they got clean"?
• How do you hold grief and joy in the same day without allowing either one to take over?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• Why recovery can involve relearning how to experience positive emotions as well as difficult ones
• How good news and major life changes may bring complicated feelings to the surface
• Why feelings of worthiness can become relevant during positive milestones
• How families can remain connected during stable periods rather than waiting for a crisis
• Why stopping substance use may be one part of a much longer recovery process
• How KL approaches the worry that can remain even after years of stability
• Why redefining success can help families recognize growth beyond a single outcome
• How gratitude, grief, and joy can coexist
• What it can mean to continue supporting a loved one without allowing their recovery to determine your own emotional well-being

Notable Insight From The Episode

Recovery does not only ask someone to learn how to survive the difficult moments. It can also ask them to learn how to receive the good ones.

For families, that can mean expanding what support looks like. Showing up may involve being present not only during relapse, fear, or crisis, but also during the moments when a loved one is learning how to experience stability, accomplishment, and joy.

About KL Wells

KL Wells is the creator and host of Thrive While Loving an Addict, a podcast and platform supporting parents, partners, and families navigating a loved one's addiction. Her work is informed by her own experience loving her son Sam through addiction, multiple relapses, and now three and a half years of sustained recovery.

Through the podcast, KL shares conversations about addiction, boundaries, grief, recovery, family dynamics, and what it means for loved ones to pursue their own healing and well-being alongside someone else's recovery journey.

Resources

Connect with KL Wells and Thrive While Loving an Addict:

https://voicesincourage.com

What happens when the person who taught you how to survive chaos is also part of the reason you never learned to feel safe?

Richard Lynch spent his childhood learning to read his father's voice for warning signs, sometimes recognizing days in advance that another crisis was coming. He grew up quickly, did well in school, and eventually built a life that appeared to be working. Then his father died, and the grief that followed changed the direction of Richard's life.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Thrive While Loving an Addict, KL Wells sits down with Richard Lynch to explore a story that moves across generations of addiction, mental illness, grief, trauma, and recovery. Richard grew up with an alcoholic father who was later diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder. As a child, he learned to anticipate instability, take on responsibilities beyond his years, and navigate an environment where safety could change quickly.

After his father's death, Richard's unresolved grief became intertwined with his own opioid addiction, eventually leading to incarceration. Today, he works within Kentucky's correctional system, helping train counselors to look beyond behavior and address the trauma that can exist beneath addiction. Richard shares what helped him rebuild his life, reconnect with his children, find faith, and use his lived experience to support others walking through recovery.

Key Discussion Points

• Growing up with an alcoholic father who was also living with serious mental illness
• How children raised in chaotic environments can learn to anticipate danger before they understand what they are experiencing
• Parentification and the impact of taking on adult responsibilities during childhood
• How seeing other families helped Richard recognize that what felt normal at home was not universal
• The lasting impact of being told that his grief was too much for others
• Why Richard stopped allowing himself to cry for twelve years
• The connection between his father's death, unresolved grief, and the beginning of Richard's opioid addiction
• Richard's experience with incarceration and how it changed the direction of his life
• The difference between simply stopping substance use and addressing the underlying emotional pain
• Why Richard believes trauma-informed addiction treatment is essential within correctional settings
• His perspective that substance use can interrupt emotional development and leave unresolved pain beneath the addiction
• Finding faith while incarcerated and the role it has played in his long-term recovery
• Rebuilding relationships with his children after years of separation
• Learning to become the father his son needed in the present rather than remaining defined by missed years
• The idea of becoming a "wounded healer" and using lived experience in service of others

Some Questions I Ask

• What does it cost someone emotionally when they are taught that their grief is a burden?
• How do you begin forgiving yourself for the years when you were not able to be present?
• What does being a "wounded healer" mean to you?
• At what point can someone begin separating who they are from what happened to them?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• Why children growing up in chaotic homes may not recognize their environment as unusual until they experience something different
• How childhood hypervigilance can develop as a way of anticipating instability
• Why silencing or minimizing grief can have lasting emotional consequences
• How unresolved grief became connected to Richard's own substance use
• Why stopping substance use and healing the pain underneath it are not necessarily the same process
• How trauma can influence emotional development and patterns of addiction
• Why trauma-informed approaches may offer a deeper understanding of behavior within addiction treatment
• How faith and connection became meaningful parts of Richard's recovery
• What rebuilding relationships with children can look like after addiction and separation
• Why healing may involve learning to show up differently in the present rather than trying to undo the past
• How lived experience can become a source of empathy and purpose

Resources & Guest Links

QPR Institute: Question, Persuade, Refer Suicide Prevention Training

QPR Institute

Seeking Safety: Trauma and Addiction Treatment Model

Developed by Lisa M. Najavits, PhD

Seeking Safety Official Information

The Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk

Bessel van der Kolk Official Website

EMDR: Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing

EMDR International Association

Internal Family Systems (IFS) and Parts Work

IFS Institute

Connect With Richard Lynch

Facebook

Richard Lynch on Facebook

Instagram

@leanonyourpeople on Instagram

TikTok

@leanonyourpeople on TikTok

Email

[email protected]

What happens when life changes in an instant?

Within just ten days, Elizabeth Grandinetti lost both her grandfather and her fiancé while recovering from major surgery. The losses were overwhelming, and for a time, grief became the center of her world. This conversation explores what came next: the slow work of healing, rediscovering herself, and learning that while grief changes us, it does not have to define who we become.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Thrive While Loving an Addict, KL Wells sits down with Elizabeth Grandinetti to talk about navigating profound loss, rebuilding trust in herself, and finding hope after addiction and grief reshaped her life. Elizabeth shares the story of losing her fiancé to an overdose after his relapse following years of recovery, just days after losing the grandfather who helped raise her.

Together, KL and Elizabeth explore the importance of community, stillness, self-trust, and the small daily choices that gradually make healing possible. This conversation offers encouragement for anyone grieving a loved one or trying to reconnect with themselves after life has been turned upside down.

Key Discussion Points

• Losing multiple loved ones within days of each other
• Grieving the loss of a partner to addiction and overdose
• Recovering physically while navigating overwhelming emotional loss
• The role of grief support groups and community in healing
• Friends who showed up with consistent care during difficult seasons
• How busyness can become a form of emotional avoidance
• Learning to trust yourself and your instincts again
• Rebuilding life after profound loss
• Leaving a successful career to pursue a more meaningful path
• Reconnecting with joy through intentional daily practices
• Choosing how grief will shape, but not define, your future

Some Questions I Ask

• What are three to five things you would share with someone who feels lost in grief or in someone else's addiction?
• When did you begin to realize that the strength you were looking for was already within you?
• What helped you learn to trust yourself again after everything you experienced?
• What patterns do you commonly see in the women you coach today?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• Why grief does not have to determine the rest of your life
• How community and support groups can provide hope during difficult seasons
• Why slowing down can reveal what constant busyness often hides
• How rebuilding trust in yourself happens one step at a time
• Why reconnecting with joy can become part of the healing process
• How childhood memories can help reconnect you with feelings of hope and possibility
• Why major life changes can sometimes lead to greater clarity about purpose
• How healing can create space for new relationships, new experiences, and a renewed sense of self

Resources

Learn more about This Way to Joy

http://www.elizabeth-grand.com

Notable Insight From The Episode

"Grief doesn't get to decide who you become."

Grief can change the course of our lives, but it does not have to define our identity. Healing often begins through small, intentional choices that gradually help us reconnect with hope, purpose, and ourselves.

About the Guest

Elizabeth Grandinetti is a Tampa-based coach and founder of This Way to Joy, where she helps women reconnect with themselves after seasons of grief, overwhelm, and life transition. Drawing from her own experiences with profound loss, Elizabeth encourages others to cultivate self-trust, embrace stillness, and intentionally reconnect with joy.

Her coaching focuses on helping women move beyond survival and create lives rooted in authenticity, resilience, and purpose.

Connect With the Guest

Website

http://www.elizabeth-grand.com

Facebook

Elizabeth Grandinetti

Instagram

@coach_elizabeth_g

What happens to the eight-year-old boy who finds his aunt collapsed on the floor, pills beneath his feet, and has to call for someone to help her? What happens when, years later, he discovers that the childhood memory he questioned was real?

For Mark Manderson, that experience became part of a much larger story. His aunt died from a drug overdose when he was young, but the memory remained buried until therapy helped him revisit it years later. The grief and understanding that followed would eventually influence a career dedicated to helping people and families affected by addiction.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Thrive While Loving an Addict, KL Wells sits down with Mark Manderson, CEO and founder of Pacific Shores Recovery, to explore what more than two decades of working in addiction recovery have taught him about pain, substance use, family dynamics, and healing.

Mark shares his belief that substance use often serves as an attempt to escape or numb deeper pain, and explains why focusing only on the substance can leave important underlying issues unaddressed. Together, KL and Mark discuss anger and grief, the limits of trying to control someone else's recovery, emotional literacy, generational patterns, and what it can mean to love someone without losing yourself in the process.

Key Discussion Points

• Mark's childhood experience of losing his aunt to a drug overdose and how that loss influenced his life's work
• Revisiting a buried childhood memory through EMDR therapy
• Why substance use can become a way of numbing or escaping deeper emotional pain
• The difference between pain that keeps someone stuck and pain that becomes a source of meaning or purpose
• Why trying to control, fix, or change someone struggling with addiction can exhaust families
• The grief that may exist underneath anger for parents and loved ones
• Mark's five foundational freedoms and the patterns he observed among people who sustained recovery
• Addiction as isolation and the importance of connection and community in recovery
• Emotional literacy and why understanding feelings can be difficult when those skills were never taught
• How generational patterns can influence substance use and family relationships
• Loving someone with an open hand rather than attaching love to a specific outcome
• How the questions we repeatedly ask ourselves can shape our perspective and beliefs
• A Gestalt-based exercise Mark uses to explore guilt and shame carried by family members

Some Questions I Ask

• Can you say more about the idea that pain may have something to teach or show us?
• What does "doing the work" actually look like for someone who has never begun that process?
• What might be a first step for a parent who feels trapped in anger?
• Do you see the addiction crisis as an invitation for people and families to become more aware of deeper patterns?
• How do you continue loving the person while struggling with what addiction is doing?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• Why addiction may be connected to an attempt to numb underlying emotional pain rather than simply a relationship with a substance
• How trying to control another person's choices can affect families emotionally
• Why grief may sit underneath anger, frustration, and exhaustion
• How pain can be explored and integrated rather than continually avoided
• The five foundational freedoms Mark identified through his work with people in recovery
• Why connection and community can play an important role in recovery
• How emotional literacy can help people better understand what they are experiencing
• How generational patterns may influence addiction and family dynamics
• Why the questions we ask ourselves can influence the answers and perspectives our minds repeatedly return to
• How families can begin examining guilt and shame they may have taken on as their own
• What it can mean to love someone without making your own well-being dependent on their recovery

Resources

The Recovery Way by Mark Manderson

A New Earth by Eckhart Tolle

TED Talk by Mark Manderson

About the Guest

Mark Manderson is the CEO and founder of Pacific Shores Recovery in Newport Beach, California, and has worked in addiction treatment for more than two decades. His work with individuals and families is informed by both professional experience and his own childhood experience of losing his aunt to addiction.

Through his work, Mark focuses on understanding the pain and emotional patterns that can exist beneath substance use while helping individuals and families develop greater awareness, connection, and emotional understanding. His experience includes working with both veterans and civilians navigating addiction and recovery.

Mark is also the author of The Recovery Way, a speaker, and a confidence coach who offers educational master classes for individuals and families navigating recovery.

Connect With Mark

Instagram

@markcmanderson

Pacific Shores Recovery

Newport Beach, California

Loving someone through addiction or mental illness can slowly consume every part of your life. The focus shifts to crisis after crisis, while your own well-being quietly slips into the background.

In this episode, KL Wells sits down with Lisa Taylor to share the deeply personal story of reaching that breaking point. Together, they explore the difficult decision to step back, the courage it took to rebuild, and how caring for yourself can become an important part of loving someone else.

Lisa Taylor is a former corporate sales executive and single mother from Ontario, Canada, whose daughter was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder as a teenager before experiencing a traumatic brain injury the following year. As the challenges continued to grow, Lisa found herself carrying the emotional, financial, and physical weight of trying to keep everything together while gradually losing herself in the process.

In this conversation, Lisa reflects on the moment she realized something had to change. She shares how creating healthy boundaries, slowing down, and focusing on her own healing allowed her to rediscover herself while continuing to love her daughter. Together, KL and Lisa explore burnout, generational patterns, spirituality, and the quiet ways healing can influence the people we love.

• Parenting through both mental illness and addiction
• The emotional and physical exhaustion of long-term caregiving
• Burnout, financial stress, and losing your sense of self
• Why setting boundaries is different from abandoning someone you love
• The difficult decision to create distance for everyone's well-being
• Rebuilding life after years of crisis management
• Slowing down and discovering deeper patterns beneath constant busyness
• How generational patterns become visible through self-reflection
• Spirituality, stillness, and personal growth during recovery
• The unexpected ways personal healing can influence family relationships
• Loving from a distance while remaining connected with compassion

• At what point did you begin taking your life back?
• What did slowing down teach you about yourself?
• How has your daughter become one of your greatest teachers?
• Was reaching your breaking point what finally opened the door to your own healing?

• Why setting boundaries with a child is not the same as abandoning them
• How chronic caregiving can lead to emotional and physical burnout
• What rebuilding life can look like after losing stability and identity
• Why personal healing may influence family relationships in unexpected ways
• How slowing down creates space to recognize generational patterns
• What loving someone from a healthy distance can look like
• Why caring for yourself is an important part of supporting someone else
• How healing often begins by turning inward rather than trying to change another person

Sashbear Foundation

https://sashbear.org

Turn the Lens Inward Podcast

Sometimes the most loving decision is also the hardest one.

Creating distance from someone you love does not always mean giving up. For many families, it can become the boundary that allows both people the opportunity to begin healing.

Lisa Taylor is a confidence coach based in Ontario, Canada, who helps people move beyond living for the expectations of others and build lives rooted in authenticity and self-trust.

After navigating years of supporting her daughter through mental health challenges and addiction, Lisa turned her own healing journey into a source of support for others. She is the co-host of the Turn the Lens Inward podcast, where she shares conversations about mental health, addiction, personal growth, and resilience. Today, she and her daughter also co-own a residential cleaning business, reflecting the new chapter they have built together.

Website

https://glowingconfidence.com

Healing from trauma rarely happens all at once. It unfolds over time, often in ways that are difficult to recognize while you're living through them. The journey beyond survival can be uncertain, filled with moments of growth, grief, and unexpected clarity.

In Part 2 of this conversation, Jason Prokowiew returns to continue sharing his story. Building on the experiences explored in Part 1, he reflects on what came after the interviews with his father, the grief that followed his father's death, and the ongoing work of building a life beyond inherited trauma.

Episode Summary

This episode continues KL Wells' conversation with Jason Prokowiew, author of War Boys. After spending years trying to understand the effects of growing up in an alcoholic home shaped by generational trauma, Jason found himself facing a new chapter after recording more than fifty hours of conversations with his father and then losing him just months later.

Together, KL and Jason explore what healing looks like after understanding begins. They discuss grief, difficult family decisions, the importance of recognizing personal strengths, and how purpose can gradually emerge alongside life's most painful experiences. This conversation offers an honest perspective on the ongoing nature of recovery and the possibility of building a meaningful life beyond survival.

Key Discussion Points

• Healing from trauma as a lifelong process rather than a single breakthrough
• Returning to old triggers years later and responding with greater awareness
• Listening to his father's recorded voice decades later and revisiting unresolved emotions
• The difficult decision to step away from family relationships that no longer supported growth
• Estrangement, grief, and making painful choices while honoring personal well-being
• Grief as a companion to healing rather than evidence that healing has failed
• The "emotional bank account" and the value of intentionally building positive experiences
• Discovering purpose alongside life's most painful experiences
• Learning to recognize long-held survival skills as strengths rather than flaws
• Viewing mental health as an ongoing journey instead of a destination

Some Questions I Ask

• After your father passed away, how did you begin discovering who you were becoming?
• What did that conversation with your older siblings reveal about your own healing?
• Why was stepping away from your mother different from leaving other family relationships?
• What was it like hearing your father's voice again after twenty years?
• Do you believe your life's purpose sits alongside the most difficult experiences you've lived through?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• Why healing from trauma often unfolds over many years
• How old triggers can reappear even after significant personal growth
• The emotional complexity of creating distance from unhealthy family systems
• Why grief and healing can exist at the same time
• How intentionally creating positive experiences can strengthen emotional resilience
• The difference between survival strategies and personal strengths
• Why understanding yourself may matter more than reaching a perfect destination
• How purpose can emerge from experiences that once felt only painful

Resources

War Boys by Jason Prokowiew

Available July 1, 2026

Learn more about War Boys

https://warboysbook.com

Al-Anon Family Groups

https://al-anon.org

Notable Insight From The Episode

"What we are not going to do is pathologize our strengths."

Jason recalls this powerful moment with his therapist as an invitation to reconsider qualities he had spent years viewing as flaws. Many of the traits developed while surviving difficult childhoods can become valuable strengths when they are understood, supported, and used with intention rather than driven by fear.

About the Guest

Jason Prokowiew is a writer, storyteller, and author of War Boys, a father-and-son memoir exploring generational trauma, addiction, and healing through the lens of his family's history. His work traces his father's survival during World War II, the lasting effects of wartime trauma, and Jason's own journey toward understanding life in an alcoholic family.

Drawing from his experiences with Al-Anon, storytelling, and years of personal reflection, Jason writes about resilience, identity, and the possibility of healing across generations. He has appeared on Stories from the Stage and has shared readings from War Boys through literary and educational communities.

Connect With the Guest

Website

https://www.jasonwprokowiew.com/

Instagram

https://www.instagram.com/jasonprokowiew/

What does it take to understand a parent who hurt you?

Not excuse them. Not justify what happened. Simply understand them in a way that helps make sense of wounds that have been carried for years.

In this episode, KL Wells sits down with Jason Prokowiew, author of War Boys, to explore the lasting impact of addiction, generational trauma, and the possibility of finding healing through understanding.

Episode Summary

Jason Prokowiew grew up as the youngest of thirteen children in a Massachusetts family shaped by alcoholism, silence, and the lingering effects of war. His father survived extraordinary hardship as a child during World War II, carrying experiences of loss, displacement, and trauma that would continue to influence his family for decades.

Together, KL and Jason explore what it was like to grow up in an alcoholic home, how childhood survival strategies followed him into adulthood, and the journey that eventually led him to record more than fifty hours of conversations with his father. Through those conversations, Jason gained a deeper understanding of both his father's story and his own.

Key Discussion Points

• Growing up in a household affected by alcoholism and unprocessed trauma
• The impact of wartime experiences across multiple generations
• The lasting effects of emotional messages received during childhood
• The concept of the "dry drunk" and what happens when drinking stops but healing does not
• Finding your voice after years of learning to stay invisible
• The influence of teachers, mentors, and supportive communities
• Panic attacks, emotional overwhelm, and the body's response to unresolved pain
• The role of Al-Anon in providing language and understanding
• Curiosity as a pathway toward healing and understanding
• Understanding a parent's history without minimizing its impact

Some Questions I Ask

• When your father stopped drinking, what was happening inside you that still needed attention?
• When did you realize that what you thought was shyness might actually have been something else?
• What helped you continue rewriting your story as new understanding emerged?
• What motivated you to begin interviewing your father about his experiences?
• Before your father passed away, did you find your own experience of forgiveness?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• How growing up in an alcoholic home can shape identity and survival strategies
• Why childhood coping mechanisms often continue into adulthood
• The impact of generational trauma on families
• How mentors and supportive relationships can create new possibilities
• Why understanding and forgiveness are not always the same thing
• How curiosity can open doors to healing and connection
• The value of hearing a loved one's full story
• How community support can help individuals make sense of experiences that once felt isolating

Resources

War Boys by Jason Prokowiew

https://www.jasonwprokowiew.com/war-boys-praise

Al-Anon Family Groups

https://al-anon.org

The Awakening by Kate Chopin

Come and See (1985 film directed by Elem Klimov)

Stories from the Stage (PBS)

Notable Insight From The Episode

"In order to understand what was still hemorrhaging inside of me, I had to hear my dad's stories."

This reflection speaks to something many families experience. Understanding the history behind someone's behavior does not erase the pain it caused, but it can offer context, perspective, and a different path toward healing.

About the Guest

Jason Prokowiew is the author of War Boys, a father-and-son memoir that traces his father's survival during World War II, his immigration to the United States, and the lasting impact of wartime trauma on their family. Through storytelling, writing, and public speaking, Jason explores themes of family, resilience, addiction, and generational healing.

He has appeared on Stories from the Stage and has shared readings and presentations about War Boys, including appearances connected to Oberlin College, where he first began recording his father's history.

Connect With the Guest

Learn more about Jason Prokowiew and War Boys

https://www.jasonwprokowiew.com

For years, Sherry Ehrin grieved a sister who was still alive. When her sister eventually died after decades of addiction, that grief did not end. In many ways, it began again.

This conversation explores the kind of loss that families often carry quietly: the grief that accumulates through years of relapse, hope, disappointment, and difficult choices. It is a story about love, capacity, boundaries, and what it means to keep moving forward after profound loss.

Episode Summary

In this episode of Thrive While Loving an Addict, KL Wells sits down with Sherry Ehrin to discuss the often-overlooked sibling experience of addiction. Over more than twenty years, Sherry watched her sister move in and out of addiction, recovery, and crisis. Along the way, she adopted her sister's four children, navigated serious health challenges of her own, and carried the emotional weight that so many family members know intimately.

Sherry shares the reality of grieving someone who is still alive, the difficult decisions families sometimes face when support and capacity run out, and the perspective that has helped her make sense of her journey. This conversation offers a compassionate look at ambiguous grief, boundaries, and the difference between stepping back and giving up.

Key Discussion Points

• The sibling experience and why it is often overlooked in conversations about addiction
• Ambiguous grief and the experience of losing someone in stages over many years
• The emotional and physical toll of loving someone through addiction
• Adopting a sibling's children while navigating complex family dynamics
• The difference between abandoning someone and reaching the limits of your capacity
• Boundaries as an act of care rather than rejection
• Managing guilt, grief, and responsibility in the face of addiction
• Rebuilding life and meaning after loss

Some Questions I Ask

• What does it feel like to grieve someone while they are still alive?
• How did you care for yourself while loving your sister through two decades of addiction?
• How do you navigate judgment from others when you choose to step back?
• How are you rewriting your story now, one year after losing your sister?

In This Episode, You Will Learn

• Why grief often begins long before a loved one dies
• How ambiguous loss affects families living alongside addiction
• The difference between running out of capacity and abandoning someone you love
• What prolonged caregiving and chronic stress can cost emotionally and physically
• Why siblings may feel unseen in addiction and recovery conversations
• How boundaries can coexist with deep love and compassion
• Why choosing yourself is not the same as giving up on someone else
• How grief, hope, and responsibility can exist at the same time

Resources

Learn more about Thriving Yinzers

https://thrivingyinzers.com

Listen to This Is It by Thriving Yinzers

https://thrivingyinzers.com

Notable Insight From The Episode

“I didn't abandon her. I ran out of capacity.”

For many families, those words capture a painful reality. There is a difference between choosing not to care and reaching the limits of what you are physically, emotionally, or mentally able to give. Recognizing that distinction can be an important part of healing.

About the Guest

Sherry Ehrin is a Pittsburgh-based writer, advocate, and host of the podcast This Is It by Thriving Yinzers. After losing her sister to addiction, she became the primary caregiver for her sister's four children while continuing to build a life for her own family.

Through Thriving Yinzers, Sherry creates space for honest conversations about resilience, healing, and finding meaning after difficult life experiences. Her work reflects the belief that people can continue moving forward even while carrying grief, loss, and uncertainty.

Connect With the Guest

Website

https://thrivingyinzers.com