In an interview recorded on July 29, Greg Olear talks to fascism expert Ruth Ben-Ghiat, author of “Strongmen: Mussolini to the Present” and the “Lucid” Substack, about the nature of coups, lessons from Berlusconi, the rise of Hitler, DeSantis as fascist, the extremist Texas GOP, secessions, the trucker convoy and the fascist threats in Canada, Meloni in Italy, the Vox party in Spain, and the power of nonviolent protest. Plus: Clash of the titan.

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