Steve Palmer here - I'm joined by our resident law student, Troy Hendrickson, who’s here to bring a fresh perspective and some real-life questions from the trenches.

Today, Troy brings up a hot topic that’s been making waves among his fellow clerks and across legal social media: Can courts stop ICE agents from making arrests inside the courtroom?

We look into real cases—including one where a judge faced criminal charges for attempting to help a defendant evade ICE—and discuss candidly the legal and ethical limits for lawyers and judges when it comes to federal agents and immigration enforcement.

We’ll cover important concepts like the supremacy of federal law, what attorneys can and can’t do when it comes to clients facing arrest, and where the line is between standing up for your beliefs and risking your career. Whether you’re a law student, a practicing attorney, or just curious about the realities behind courtroom doors, you’ll find plenty to chew on in this episode.

Key Moments

00:00 Judge Aids Defendant's Escape

05:19 "Unpleasant Ethical Duties in Law"

08:27 Legal Ethics: No Crime Assistance

12:20 Arguing Both Sides Skillfully

13:06 Mastering Argument: Embrace All Sides

Here are my top 3 takeaways:

• Ethics over Emotion: As attorneys, our personal views can’t trump ethical and legal obligations. Even if you disagree with the government’s actions, taking active measures to help clients evade arrest (like sneaking them out the back) can cross into obstruction of justice—and carry real consequences.
• Know Where the Line Is: There’s a critical difference between informing a client of a warrant and helping them hide or avoid law enforcement. Advising is part of the job; aiding in evasion is not.
• Federal vs. State Authority: The courtroom is a public forum, and ICE—as federal agents—cannot easily be banned from the space by local judges. The Supremacy Clause puts federal law above state, meaning local attempts to keep ICE out could backfire.

Submit your questions to www.lawyertalkpodcast.com.

Recorded at Channel 511.

Stephen E. Palmer, Esq. has been practicing criminal defense almost exclusively since 1995. He has represented people in federal, state, and local courts in Ohio and elsewhere.

Though he focuses on all areas of criminal defense, he particularly enjoys complex cases in state and federal courts.

He has unique experience handling and assembling top defense teams of attorneys and experts in cases involving allegations of child abuse (false sexual allegations, false physical abuse allegations), complex scientific cases involving allegations of DUI and vehicular homicide cases with blood alcohol tests, and any other criminal cases that demand jury trial experience.

Steve has unique experience handling numerous high publicity cases that have garnered national attention.

For more information about Steve and his law firm, visit Palmer Legal Defense.

Copyright 2025 Stephen E. Palmer - Attorney At Law

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Circle 270 Media® is a podcast consulting firm based in Columbus, Ohio, specializing in helping businesses develop, launch, and optimize podcasts as part of their marketing strategy. The firm emphasizes the importance of storytelling through podcasting to differentiate businesses and engage with their audiences effectively. www.circle270media.com