Immersion Nation Podcast

By now, we all know, It’s all about connection. 
So why am I coming back to this topic here? 

Because connection can be manifested in so many different ways. It struck me when going through the first section of this interview. It seems like the way Ross cultivates connection is by seeing a spark in someone else, and lending himself to that spark in order to meet that person where they are, to speak to that person in their language. Depending on what part of the immersive world you occupy, that might sound obvious…? But, to be able to do that on every level from the experience participant to the producing executive is, I think, pretty exceptional. Today we dig deeper into how this idea of connection works in every part of the immersive design process, from vetting collaborators to the money math of big brands. 

This is the second part of my conversation with immersive experience designer, Ross Tipograph but! It is okay to jump in here. (Though of course, I would suggest you listen to both.) For context: Ross was recently named on the Forbes 30 under 30 list for his work in experiential marketing and has worked on projects like the Amazon immersive experiences for the television shows The Expanse and Carnival Row at San Diego Comic-Con, in 2019. In his under 30 years, he’s been busy.


Selected Links:

• Ross Tipograph
• -Linkedin
• -Facebook
• -Instagram
• 8 Players
  
  
• Forbes 30 under 30
• Giant Spoon
• The aforementioned Amazon Activations:
  • The Expanse
  • Carnival Row
• Book: The Director’s Voice 
• Saint Anne’s warehouse
• Under the radar festival

Show Notes:

• “For guests walking out of one of your experiences, what kind of reactions are you looking for?” [2:57]
• The exclusivity of a shared moment: The good and the bad [4:21]
• If ross had one month to prepare someone for directing an immersive experience [6:54]
• 1- Reconnect with your why [7:23]
• 2- Get ready to work with actors [8:42]
• 3- Vet your collaborators [9:51]
• Preparing for collaboration [11:06]
• How Ross thinks about the macro of experiential and immersive [12:23]
• Why immersive makes sense for large brands [14:49]
• Making immersive viable, seeing the barrier clearly [17:13]
• Desperation and financially viability 101 [18:29]
• Excitement for the future [20:42]
• What needs to change; a fair but spicy take [22:35]
• Immersive about the here and now [24:21]
• Another alternative to nostalgia [25:55]
• A final note for creators [28:20]

We all have our superpowers. The set of unique experiences we have that make us uniquely suited for specific things. Often, our superpowers come from the combination of many different skills. 

Now, in our world, the world of immersive entertainment;  theater and marketing may seem like an obvious combination. But Ross is a perfect example of the way in which these skill sets can come together to become greater than the sum of their parts. Theater and Marketing, at their core, have one essential but elusive thing in common. Connection. In the next two episodes, we talk about how the combination of these two abilities led Ross Tipograph to found 8 players, work on 4 experiences for amazon studios, work with the experiential marketing powerhouse, Giant Spoon, and to represent the experiential and immersive world on the Forbes 30 under 30 list in 2020

Selected Links:

Ross Tipograph
-Linkedin
-Facebook
-Instagram
8 Players

Forbes 30 under 30
Giant Spoon
HBO’s Sharp Objects
Windy City Playhouse
Influences and inspirations: Scream
Influences and inspirations: Haunted Mansion Ride
Book: The Haunted Mansion: Imagineering 
Book: How to operate a financially successful haunted house 
New York Immersive Night

Show Notes:

Ross’ chosen Fictional world to live in [2:44]
Why we rescheduled [4:32]
Ross awarded Forbes 30 Under 30 [6:02]
Ross Tipograph: Origins [7:29]
Disneyworld and the haunted mansion [9:20]
The 2013 turning point [11:00]
Creating 8 Players [13:40]
“Sometimes it takes busting open a door” [16:23]
Make it Immersive! Sharp Objects [20:00]
2 ways to make a small audience work [27:12]

To recap, last week we left off. Jeromy had gotten a call from a local bar/beer garden asking him to produce a Halloween season show for their upstairs space. They had a month to make this show, the rabbit cage, come together. 

We talk about this adventure in creation and how one could layer experiences together, in the make it immersive segment. Jeromy tells us about an experience he had with Sleep No More, and another where he was momentarily, and thrillingly convinced he was about to be abducted into an experience. Finally, Jeromy talks about the power of being seen and what could happen when an experience is bold enough to stretch the boundary of entertainment.

The ideas that make the foundation of what we do when we create, or go out to an immersive experience are becoming more common. The language of immersive [beat] is beginning to be adopted because whether you’re designing a set, a workplace, a school, or your living room, it applies. If you’re listening to this, you’re witnessing the edge of what is likely a profound shift in the way our culture thinks about shaping the world around us. [beat] And no matter what happens, there is one thing we can be sure about the future of immersive experience… 2020 is going to be wild. Enjoy 

Selected Links:

Dino Lion
-Facebook
-Instagram
The Rabbit Cage

Festival of Disruption
David Lynch
Sleep No More
Day for night festival
Sundance Film Festival

Grey Area, San Francisco
The 21 experience
Beta Theater
Alternate Reality Game
Overlook film festival

Show Notes:

•A month to create a show [4:03]
•All ideas beget other ideas [5:54]
•A brilliant spoiler (for The Rabbit Cage) [7:01]
•Make it immersive [8:47]
•The festival of disruption: Dino Lion Style [6:38]
•Immersive is…. [11:30]
•The in-between could also be an immersive experience! [15:25]
•A Sleep No More Story [16:10]
•An experience within an experience. Where the experience ends [18:31]
•A story about the twenty-one experience. “These guys are going to get out and bag me and throw me this van” [20:24]
•Jeromy Barber on exciting new things in immersive creation [23:01]
•“I want to make work that authentically knows people… There’s a lot of power in being known” [25:24]
•The lattice effect; on being a supportive structure [27:16]
•Being seen; when fiction looks at you [30:13]

In 2005, Jeromy Barber moved from New York City to a small town in Texas.

If Jeromy's life was a screenplay, and I was editing? I would probably advise the writer to make it just a touch less formulaic. It is fantastic. Jeromy has trained with the comedy monolith, Second City. Founded the improv focused Beta Theater in Houston and, of course, owns and operates Dinolion, a quote “Creative video house” which rocks the tagline “Projects we love with people we love.” and does everything from video marketing to, of course, immersive experience design. 

My read on The Dinolion brand, as a creative expression of Jeromy’s style, is bright and brash and I think can only really be described as brilliantly refined chaos. But that’s just my read on it, go check out their reel for yourself after the show; also, fantastic. 

Jeromy’s way of thinking about the creation of immersive experiences is incredibly innovative. So, again for you practicing or aspiring immersive creators out there, these two episodes will hopefully likely spark the same kind of curiosity and excitement that I walked away with. And for the immersive fans, adventurers, connoisseurs? Have you ever heard of a one-person immersive experience in a plane? 

Once again, fantastic.

Selected Links:

Dinolion
-Facebook
-Instagram
The Rabbit Cage

Beta Theater
Bill Callahan
David lynch
Festival of Disruption
Transcendental Meditation
Second City
The Steam Powered Hour
Pollok Texas
Lonely girl 15
Cassie is Watching
Alternate Reality Game
Overlook film festival
The Axelrad Beer Garden

Show Notes:

Jeromy’s fictional world [3:08]
What is Dinolion? [7:16]
The path from video to immersive [9:25]
New York to Texas & discovering ARG [10:42]
Consuming to create in a new medium [13:25]
Starting with easter eggs [14:34]
Cross-discipline: Video and immersive [17:18]
Video in immersive experience [19:14]
Spoilers and marketing for immersive productions [21:33]
The ONLY person who has said the marketing is easy and the complexity ceiling
[23:31]
The golden ratio of immersive: post-experience interest is a champagne problem. 
[26:23]
The draw to the haunt genera [28:14]
The inception of The Rabbit Cage [30:29]

This episode is brimming, overflowing even with tips and techniques for those who like to look behind the curtain. If you didn’t catch last week’s episode, it gives some background on our guest Niyia Mack’s experience producing and consulting on immersive experience design. 

This week, Niyia answers questions about creating immersive experiences when you’re not based in LA, New York, or Chicago, what she’s excited about in the changing world of immersive, and how it’s possible to make more intimate immersive productions financially viable. 

Whether or not you’re a creative in immersive entertainment, getting a window into the world of those who carefully craft experiences for others can be incredibly eye-opening to the end of understanding the ways in which the world around you might be changeable, designable, and resoundingly story-worthy. Enjoy

Selected Links:

Niyia Mack
Niyia Mack’s projects
Janell Langford’s Obsidiopolis
SXSW panel

Some of Niyia Mack’s work and collaborations:

Meow Wolf Denver
Delusion
Spy Brunch’s “Safehouse’
Speakeasy Society’s ‘Johnny cycle’
CoAct Production’s ‘Sideshow’
LEIA
Pasadena Playhouse

Show Notes:

Creating a space of safety [2:41]
Creating when you’re not in LA, NY, or Chicago [7:46]
Finding the community [11:17]
What Niyia is excited about in immersive? [12:48]
LARPing and immersive rookies [16:47]
Financially viable small shows [18:31]
Surprised by the effects of immersive [24:18]

How does it all come together? How does one take a multitude of moving parts; actors, and scripts, and settings, varying degrees of audience agency and assemble them into emotionally evocative experiences? 

If you are the creator, the producer, the director, the writer venturing into unknown territories; the prospect of working in a medium where you are intentionally giving the audience an opportunity to exert their own philistine agency on your creation… Might sound like an undisguised nightmare. 

But, as it turns out, there is some methodology to this and! A select few brilliant producers with more than a little experience in the subtle art of immersive experience. Niyia Mack is an LA-based producer and consultant who has worked with Meow Wolf, Safehouse 77’, and 82’, Delusion, and CoAct Productions to name just a few. Niyia is here to share her experience creating in the immersive realm with all of you.


Selected Links

Niyia Mack
Niyia Mack’s projects

Janell Langford’s Obsidiopolis
SXSW panel

Some of Niyia’s work and collaborations:
Meow Wolf Denver
Delusion
Spy Brunch’s “Safehouse’
Speakeasy Society’s ‘Johnny cycle’
CoAct Production’s ‘Sideshow’
LEIA
Pasadena Playhouse

What is immersive entertainment? Oh my word, does anybody know?? When someone asks you what you did Saturday night, what is the 2 second explanation? I went to see this movie, I went to dinner at x place, I went to this concert. These work because everyone knows what the movie, dinner, the concert experience is. The experience is the medium, the method of communication. You don’t have to work to come up with that mental image. 

This reeeeally doesn’t work with immersive entertainment, which puts Immersion Nation, and our guest in a genuinely difficult position. Because we’re both on a mutual mission to explain the unexplainable. Our guest is the founder of No Proscenium, an immersive entertainment publication and hotbed of wisdom and support for the immersive community. Noah Nelson is here to help you and me understand why Immersive entertainment is so hard to define, and ultimately, why that might not event the goal we should be trying for.

Selected Links:

No Proscenium
Instagram
Twitter
Facebook

Everything Immersive Facebook Group
No Proscenium Podcast

HERE summit
The Rendon
Vampire of the masquerade
Jay Bushman
Sarah Thacher
Candle House Collective
Dead Play

Show Notes:

HERE summit [2:39]
Immersive music proper [3:10]
Chosen fictional world [8:43]
Wreck it Ralph Breaks VR [12:11]
*Spoiler* Into the Spider Verse [13:43]
The ‘I’ word: Immersive [15:26]
The Transmedia wars [17:04]
The Origins of Noah the Nelson [20:04]
“What I like about the field right now… What I worry about” [21:32]
What is immersive? real for just a moment [22:57]
The medium doesn’t matter [24:07]
Lowering the impedance[27:22]

Now this is where things change. One small group of people, one small room, one unexpectedly vulnerable interaction at a time. And it’s not easy. It’s hard to just be present, let alone open up to strangers.

And this is where Siobhan comes in. Someone who can take something serious, and turn it into laughter. Someone who can take something that is so hard to explain, a performance in a bathroom? And not leave you feeling like it makes sense, but like it’s the only thing that makes sense. Siobhan O’Loughlin has crafted and refined and created something in Broken Bone Bathtub that redefines what immersive entertainment can be. 

What is Broken Bone Bathtub?

Broken Bone Bathtub is an immersive theater experience performed -typically- for a small group, in a bathroom.  Siobhan O’Loughlin casts the audience as close friends, letting her borrow their bathtub after breaking her hand in a bicycle accident. In the name of keeping her cast dry, and finding some much needed human connection, she hops in the tub; over the course of the 60-90 minute performance, she interacts with the audience in a way that perfectly walks the line between the topical gravity of the story and the situational levity of the scenario. 

Selected Links:

Siobhan O’loughlin
Broken Bone Bathtub
-Instagram
-Facebook
-Twitter

Press and reviews of Broken Bone Bathtub through the years. 
Siobhan’s Patreon
Siobhan’s Moth Grandslam and other videos

-*Editorial favorite from clips in above link is ‘Every Time I Try’

Show Notes:

Siobahn’s fictional world: artistic renaissance [4:23]
Are Patreon and crowdfunding platforms helping? [6:26]
What is Broken Bone Bathtub? [10:55]
Vulnerability and beginning the bath [15:00]
Japan to LA, meeting the audience where they’re at [19:53]
Spacial improv and staying on your toes [22:44]
The language barrier in immersive performance [24:12]
Moving with and through cultural barriers [26:05]
The impact of immersive experience [28:25]
Building the immersive community [30:55]

We often think of people as so individual, so removed from their context. As individuals.  But try as we might, we are.. the constantly shifting point that sits at the intersection of our internal identity and our external environment.  

And if you think about the curve of human history, this fact has been the point *pause* of thousands of years of frustration. It’s a little bit of an adversarial  relationship. Most of what we categorize as necessities, clothing, shelter, access to clean water are acts of environmental design

But on this episode, we’re discussing how this is changing. How shaping an external environment can enable changes in our internal environment, rather than prevent them. This is part two of a conversation with Risa Puno, creator of The Privilege of escape. An escape room, that uses environmental design to explore the concept of privilege.

This portion of the conversation is by itself fantastic and illuminating and illustrative but if you find yourself wanting to know a little more about the context of the piece, you should go check out the first part of the interview, episode 23 which you can find wherever you might be listening right now. Beyond that, I hope you enjoy this window into the world of escape rooms, social dynamics, and the way our environment shapes our awareness. 

Selected Links:
The Privilege of Escape

Risa Puno
•@risapuno
•On twitter
•On Vimeo

Creative time
-Sugar Sphinx
-Pigeon lights performance

The Onassis foundation
The olympic tower building
On Post Game Frothing

Show Notes:

The original room design [2:37]
Harvesting spines, you know, the usual [3:42]
The concept of neutral authority [4:14]
The issue of provoking thought [5:26]
The puzzles and the flow and easter eggs [7:20]
Escape room life: Confusion and frustration [9:43]
Privilege is everything you don’t have to deal with [12:23]
Hacking empathy [16:19]
You have to listen [17:04]
Part refrigerator, part escape room [19:10]