In & Around Podcasting

Spotify recently announced they've ceased their membership of the IAB (Interactive Advertising Bureau), which has long been seen as the standard for the podcast industry when it comes to analytics and measurement.

This announcement means Spotify for Podcasters (previously Anchor), Megaphone, and Chartable are no longer IAB Certified.

With the industry looking to standardize podcast measurement for both podcasters and sponsors/ad buyers, what now for the industry, with such a big player leaving the current standard?

About our co-host,

Links to interesting things from this episode

• IAB Podcast Analytic Certification & Compliance Explained
• IAB “Compliance” or “Certified” - the difference
• Spotify leaves the IAB; no longer certified

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

Many podcasts don't make it past episode five, according to new data from the Podcast Index. In this episode, Mark, Danny, Dave Jackson, and Ashley Hamer discuss the challenges and misconceptions surrounding podcasting.

Takeaways

• Many podcasts don't make it past episode five, possibly due to the rise of free podcast hosting platforms like Anchor, now Spotify for Podcasters.
• The lack of immediate feedback and community engagement in podcasting can be disheartening for new podcasters.
• The influx of celebrity podcasts and the perception of difficulty in getting noticed may discourage indie podcasters.
• To overcome these challenges, podcasters should focus on their internal motivation, have a long list of episode topics, and plan for breaks or hiatuses.
• Setting realistic expectations is crucial in podcasting, as it takes time and effort to grow an audience and make money.
• Podcasting is not a quick way to make six figures, and it's important to focus on creating valuable content and building a loyal audience.

Our co-hosts this week:

Ashley Hamer

Ashley Hamer is Managing Editor at Descript, an AI-powered audio and video editor. She's also the author of the Weekly Tweak, a newsletter that helps podcasters improve their show week by week, and the creator/host of Taboo Science, a podcast that examines taboos through a scientific lens. Formerly, she was the co-creator and co-host of Curiosity Daily, a daily science podcast from Discovery. She lives in Asheville, North Carolina with her husband and toddler daughter where she plays jazz saxophone at venues around the city.

@smashleyhamer on X - Ashley on YouTube - Ashley's Website

Dave Jackson

Dave Jackson began podcasting in 2005 and launched the School of Podcasting (schoolofpodcasting.com). His School of Podcasting show has over 3.1 million downloads. He has helped hundreds of people plan, launch, and grow their podcasts. He is the author of the book Profit from your podcast and is a featured speaker at events. In 2016 Dave joined Libsyn (the largest podcast hosting company) as part of their tech support team.  In 2018 he was inducted into the Academy of Podcasters Hall of Fame.

@DaveJackson on X - @schoolofpodcasting on Instagram - Dave on YouTube - Dave's Website Dave's Facebook page

Links to interesting things from this episode

• The Podcast Launch Accelerator - Free Online Podcast Course | Captivate
• Neil Scott | National Association of Addiction Treatment Providers
• Tink Media
• Podfade: surprising reasons why podcasters give up | Ana Xavier
• Total podcasts in the index - Podcast Index
• How many episodes do podcasts have? - Podcast Index
• How many podcasts make it to 5 or more episodes? - Podnews

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

In this episode, Danny, Sam Sethi, and Garry Aylott discuss the current state of podcasting apps and the recent closures of several apps. They explore the challenges faced by podcasting apps in terms of monetization and discoverability, and question whether this means some podcast apps have a future.

The conversation also touches on the need for apps to offer more features and interactivity to both listeners and creators, and the potential for larger apps to tap into their existing platforms and open up APIs to smaller apps, creating a more diverse and innovative ecosystem.

Takeaways

• Podcasting apps face challenges in terms of monetization and discoverability.
• Apps need to offer more features and interactivity to attract and retain listeners and creators.
• Larger apps could tap into their existing platforms and open up APIs to smaller apps to create a more diverse and innovative ecosystem.
• Education and communication are key to bridging the gap between the podcasting community and the mainstream audience. Listen to your audience and be selective about which features to use in your podcasting app.
• App closures and consolidations are likely to occur in the future.
• Support your favorite podcasting apps to help them stay in the game.

Links to interesting things from this episode

• Amazing Spider-Talk
• Tom Buck - YouTube
• Podcasting 2.0 | Dave Jones
• Guy Martin | LinkedIn
• Share of downloads by podcast apps
• 13 Podcast Statistics You Need To Know For 2024
• Our recommendations for a new podcast app to replace Google Podcasts and Stitcher
• Podcast Industry in 2024: Top Platforms, Audience Stats, & Ad Trends
• Podcast App Development - Features, Cost, and Steps
• RadioPublic is Shutting Down

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

NOTE: Some of this audio is a little sketchy because it was recorded using some Bluetooth mics on site at Podcast Movement Evolutions 2024. Probably worth an upgrade...

As the podcasting industry descended on Los Angeles for Podcast Movement Evolutions, the talk centred around YouTube, podcast downloads in mobile games and the annual geek out over data thanks to The Infinite Dial and The Podnews Report Card.

But what was Podcast Movement Evolutions 2024 like, really? Let's review...

Takeaways

• Podcast Movement Evolutions is a valuable event for both industry professionals and creators.
• There is a need to clearly differentiate between industry-focused and creator-focused content at podcasting events.
• Networking at the parties is a crucial aspect of podcasting events and can lead to valuable connections and opportunities.
• Podcast Movement is a must-attend event for podcasters looking to expand their knowledge and network with industry leaders.
• The 'Stupid Stuff in Podcasting' segment provides insights into the challenges and annoyances faced by podcasters in the industry.

Chapters

• 00:00 Sing along intro
• 00:25 Podcast Movement Evolutions 2024 Review
• 31:35 The Wave File
• 32:10 LIVE Stupid Stuff in Podcasting with Industry Leaders
• 52:07 Conclusion and Thank You to Listeners

Links to interesting things from this episode

• Evolutions by Podcast Movement 2025
• Podcast Movement 2024 | Podcast Conference | August in Washington, D.C.
• Podcaster & Podcast Industry Conference - Podcast Movement Evolutions | Los Angeles 2024

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

Let's explore the moral aspect of AI and the importance of maintaining human connection and authenticity in content creation.

Takeaways

• Maintaining human connection and authenticity is crucial in content creation, and AI should be used as a tool to enhance and streamline the process.
• Voice impersonation and the security of personal voices are valid concerns in an AI-driven world, and measures should be taken to protect creators and their content.
• Creators should be intentional in their content creation, focusing on their unique stories and expertise, and using AI to enhance their message rather than replace it.
• Platforms have a responsibility to ensure ethical use of AI and protect creators, but creators also have a role in understanding and mitigating the risks associated with AI. AI regulation is necessary to protect individuals and society from potential harm.
• Private companies, such as Apple and Spotify, should collaborate to address AI regulation collectively.
• Individuals face challenges in protecting themselves from AI, and government intervention is needed.
• AI tools, such as transcription services, can enhance accessibility and improve podcasting workflows.
• Video is not essential for podcasting success; audio-only podcasts can thrive.

Chapters

• 00:00 Sing along intro
• 00:13 Guest introductions
• 03:12 "Does AI Need Regulation in Podcasting?"
• 28:14 The Wave File
• 45:37 Stupid Stuff in Podcasting
• 48:12 The Flattering Ram
• 50:00 Wrapping up

Links to interesting things from this episode

• Capsho Next Gen
• Sounds Like Impact | Unofficial Social Chair
• Alex Sanfilippo (@AJSanfi) / X
• What Is Your Podcaster Personality Type? Take The Quiz Now! - PodScore
• Could hackers steal our voices? - by Kattie Laur
• YouTube: How we're helping creators disclose altered or synthetic content
• Content guidelines - Apple Podcasts for Creators

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

In this episode, Mark, Danny, Joe Casabona, and Daniel J. Lewis discuss the future of Podcasting 2.0 and its impact on the podcasting industry.

They explore the challenges and benefits of implementing Podcasting 2.0 features, such as transcripts and chapter markers. The conversation also touches on the complexity of value for value in Podcasting 2.0 and the need for better app support.

Additionally, they discuss the importance of engagement and handling negative reviews in podcasting. The episode concludes with Danny's dream AI tool and a recommendation for the Knick Knack News podcast.

Takeaways

Podcasting 2.0 is an evolving movement that aims to improve the podcasting and podcast consumption experience for everyone.

Implementing Podcasting 2.0 features should be based on the goals and needs of individual podcasters and their audiences.

Reviews and ratings do not directly impact podcast rankings, but they can provide social proof and engagement opportunities.

Engaging with listeners and focusing on the positives is more important than dwelling on negative reviews.

App support for Podcasting 2.0 features is still limited, but the recent support from Apple is a positive sign for the future of the movement.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction
• 01:05 Introductions
• 04:40 Is Podcasting 2.0 pointless?
• 24:36 The Wave File
• 26:04 The Wonderfully Whimsical Podcasting Wishlist: Danny's fancy AI idea
• 28:19 The Flattering Ram: Knick Knack News from Daniel
• 30:53 Stupid Stuff in Podcasting: Reviews = rankings, argh!
• 38:14 Wrap up

Links to interesting things from this episode

• Knick Knack News - recommended by Daniel J. Lewis during The Flattering Ram segment!
• Is Podcasting 2.0 clear enough?
• Daniel J. Lewis and James Cridland Launch Podcasting2.org - Podcast Workflows
• Best Host for Podcasting 2.0
• Podcasting 2.0 - Making podcasts better for everyone!
• TrueFans | For The Fans™
• V4V - A New Way to Think about Value

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

“You can’t make money unless you have 10-20,000 downloads in the first 28 days”, and “you’re not serious podcaster if you’re not hitting those downloads, you’re just a hobbyist”

Plus! Stupid stuff from a "guru" telling us to double our output and our guest co-host drives The Flattering Ram!

Our co-host this week is , .

Connect with our co-host: , , .

Takeaways

• Monetisation opportunities in podcasting go beyond traditional sponsorships and can include direct sales, merchandise, speaking engagements, and more.
• Nurturing super fans is a long-term process that requires thoughtful work and strategy.
• The old school thinking that high download numbers are necessary for monetization is not always true, and alternative approaches can be successful.
• It's important to have a clear vision and strategy for your podcast, considering factors such as audience, goals, and values.
• The elitist mindset in the podcasting industry can discourage aspiring podcasters, but it's important to focus on your own journey and passion. Don't let the elitist mindset in podcasting discourage you from starting a podcast. Enjoy the process and focus on your own goals.
• Having a plan is important for podcasters who want to achieve specific outcomes, such as monetization or building a community.
• Starting a podcast as a hobby can lead to unexpected opportunities and growth.
• Building super fans takes time and consistency. Don't expect immediate results.
• Celebrity podcasts may have an advantage in terms of initial listenership, but building a loyal fan base takes time and effort.
• Doubling the number of episodes does not necessarily lead to increased listenership. Focus on quality and engaging content.
• Listenership is more important than download numbers. Focus on building a loyal audience.
• Shine a light on people doing great things in the podcasting industry and support their work.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Overview
• 01:03 Introducing the Guest Co-host
• 06:43 Monetization Opportunities
• 10:53 The Importance of Strategy in Podcasting
• 13:54 Nurturing Super Fans
• 15:48 Old School Thinking vs. New Approaches to Monetization
• 21:03 The Elitist Mindset in Podcasting
• 22:32 The Elitist Mindset in Podcasting
• 24:08 The Importance of Having a Plan
• 24:38 Starting a Podcast as a Hobby
• 26:08 The Long Process of Building Super Fans
• 27:39 The Reality of Celebrity Podcasts
• 29:33 Stupid Stuff in Podcasting - The Stupid Advice of Doubling Episodes
• 31:30 The Importance of Listenership over Downloads
• 36:45 The Flattering Ram - Shining a Light on People Doing Great Things
• 40:00 Wrap up

Links to interesting things from this episode

• Joe Casabona's LinkedIn Post
• KS&R Report: Podcasts are Replacing Traditional Media Consumption

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

In this bonus episode, Mark and Danny discuss the purpose and vision of the In and Around Podcasting show. They emphasize the importance of inclusivity and alternative viewpoints in the podcasting industry. They introduce the show's segments, including the Stupid Stuff in Podcasting, the Flattering Ram, the Wave File and the Whimsical Podcasting Wishlist. The hosts express their excitement for the show and their commitment to highlighting powerful podcasting perspectives.

Takeaways

• Inclusivity and alternative viewpoints are crucial in the podcasting industry.
• The industry should strive to be more accessible and welcoming to all podcasters.
• Recognizing and highlighting good people and their contributions in the industry is important.
• Sharing ideas and giving credit to all podcasters, regardless of their status, can lead to industry progress.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Purpose of the Show
• 01:21 The Love for Podcasting
• 02:38 Challenges of Being a Solo Podcaster
• 04:15 The Importance of Inclusivity in the Podcasting Industry
• 06:03 The Need for Alternative Viewpoints
• 08:21 The Vision of In and Around Podcasting
• 09:18 The Trend Towards Inclusivity in the Podcasting Community
• 10:14 The Importance of Making Podcasting Accessible
• 11:05 The Divide in the Podcasting Industry
• 12:03 Introduction to Show Segments
• 13:23 The Stupid Stuff in Podcasting
• 14:28 The Flattering Ram
• 15:23 Highlighting Good People in the Industry
• 16:25 The Whimsical Podcasting Wishlist
• 19:01 Equalizing Ideas and Giving Credit
• 20:18 Excitement for the Show
• 21:08 Closing Remarks

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

Want to sing along to the intro? We made you some lyric sheets! Download them here: https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/lyrics (no email required).

It was essential to get the music of In & Around Podcasting right in order to create a brand that is lighthearted yet authoritative; a brand focused on making subjects that can be quite dry, accessible to anyone interested in the podcasting space.

Having gone through the designer brief to create the various cover art (yes, we have more than one!) we started the process of finding a musician and producer that could capture the brand in audio form and elevate it to a high level.

Our guest, Catherine Rannus, did just that and crafted an audio brand that stands out in the podcasting industry and creates an unforgettable "earworm" experience and a range of useful segment drops that embody the vibe of the hosts and the segments themselves.

About our guest, Catherine Rannus

With an extensive repertoire from pop to jazz and classical to traditional, Catherine has been providing live music for weddings and functions for over 20 years. Whether playing piano solo, or singing as well Catherine creates a lovely backdrop to conversations in sophisticated and romantic settings, quietly creating a sense of occasion unique to your special requirements.

Catherine can be found online at Catherine's Website; her Instagram is @catherinerannus on Instagram and her X (Twitter) is @catherinerannus on X.

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In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.

We love podcast industry podcasts - there are a lot of them and they're run by smart, passionate people who live and breathe podcasting and who are usually industry professionals.

Sometimes though, they don't give the day-to-day enthusiast, creator or indie podcaster a platform to have their say, often taking "the view from the top" as delivered by the "podcasting professionals".

In & Around Podcasting has been designed to respect and live alongside those shows and to be an accessible, inclusive podcast for every single podcaster; a show that allows everyone with an interest in the medium to have a fair, open and transparent view on the podcasting industry and how it affects them - this is your place to be heard.

The podcasting industry belongs to us all, not just the elite and it doesn't matter how long you've been in the industry, your voice is valuable.

In & Around Podcasting is a podcast industry podcast started by Mark Asquith and Danny Brown and now hosted by Elsie Escobar and Rob Walch, continuing its mission as an industry show that belongs to the whole community.

If you enjoy the show, we'd love for you to leave us a rating or review on your favourite podcast app! You can also drop us a tip at https://www.inandaroundpodcasting.com/support, too!

If you're an independent creator who would like to co-host with us, please let us know by emailing the show! [email protected].

Please tell your friends that the show is available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, and YouTube, plus wherever else they may listen to their podcasts.

If you'd like your podcast trailer featuring in our "Wave File" segment, submit it via this quick contact form, please.

The podcast is also available at In & Around Podcasting.