Mariah was just shy of her third birthday when her mother left her father — a Dear John letter, and Mariah in tow. They were gone for about six months. Then her parents reconnected, tried again, and that reunion held together, in name, until she was 13. What lived inside that decade of "trying again" was anything but simple. Home was tumultuous. Home was toxic. Both parents were struggling with mental illness they didn't yet have language for and self-medicating in ways Mariah wouldn't fully understand until much later.

The role Mariah ended up in during those years is one many adult children of divorce will recognize instantly: sounding board. From the time she was small, she was the person her mother turned to — hoping, quietly, that her mom would share more with her friends and less with her. She sacrificed parts of her childhood to comfort her mother. Twice a year, like clockwork, her mother would unhinge and start planning to leave — and Mariah would get roped into the packing, the plotting, the emotional labor of an exit that then wouldn't happen. In sixth grade, Mariah did the math and realized it was a cycle. That's when she started tuning her mother out — building a shell so the emotions couldn't reach her. It kept her safe.

In seventh grade, her mother upended everything for a rekindled romance with someone who wasn't Mariah's dad. Sadly, it was during the first time Mariah remembers feeling stable — she had friends, life felt good. Her relationship with her dad, until that point, had been the relationship of a stranger. He was an addict; he was always disconnected. He was always kind about her and positive toward her — but she was starved for his attention. Later on she was sent from her mom to go live with him. By then, he was sober. In those years together, Mariah bonded with her father for the first time, and she was exposed to AA and NA meetings that had a profound impact on her life — grace, motivation, and a template for staying clean in a family that had never modeled it. Her dad later relapsed. But the connection they built in that window was something she'd never had before, and it stayed.

Mariah ended up back with her mom for part of high school, and the rollercoaster picked up right where it had left off. What she's built since is inspiring in a way that isn't loud — she's a reflective, honest, wide-open woman raising three daughters with the love, care, and support she wasn't given herself. Considering every other way her path could have gone, the joy she carries now is the whole point of this episode.

About Mariah: Mariah Sheridan Runions is a mom to three girls, an entrepreneur (author, realtor, dancer, leader), and a chaser of expansion and growth. She's navigating a messy divorce while trying to remember what it felt like to be on the "kid" end of this experience.

She's currently editing her memoir — and you can pre-order the book on her website.

Find Mariah: Website: MariahRunions.com

Instagram: @mariah_in_fernie

Facebook: facebook.com/mariah.runions

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach and mediator, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Amanda was five when her parents separated, ten when they divorced, and about twelve when she started what she calls "split living" — an early 50/50 case before that was really the norm. She has no memory of her parents happy, and today she'll tell you clearly: they were never two people who should have been together.

Life with her mother was chaotic. Amanda knew deep down she needed to live with her father, but she also knew her mother would never allow it — so she counted herself lucky to get 50/50. Looking back, Amanda names two things she wishes had gone differently. First: she wishes her parents had told her, plainly, that the divorce had nothing to do with her. Second: she wishes someone had recognized that the constant uncertainty was building a hypervigilance in her that still permeates her life today.

Triangulation was constant. As she grew, she could see the pattern clearly: her mother was the instigator, her father conflict-avoidant. Sometimes Amanda stirred it herself as a kid, asking her dad about something her mother had said — and the fire it lit taught her exactly what happens when a child is placed in the middle of a fight she never chose.

Because her mother saw her happy at her dad's, her mother targeted him — cataloging every way "he had failed". Even into her college years, Amanda was caught between them over money. Expecting a child to know how to stay out of the middle is a responsibility no child should ever have to carry.

There became a calmer place with her parents and her stepmother — Amanda credits her stepmother with much of that peace — and one of her parents' most healing gifts to her was the sentence "we did really good." Sweet validation, she says.

Amanda sees now how that childhood echoed into her adulthood: abandoning herself to manage other people, retreating because she thought her presence was such a problem. She stayed in her own marriage too long because she didn't want to be the villain in someone else's story — until she eventually accepted that role in order to get out. Now, at 59 and freshly divorced, she's doing the work every day.

About Amanda: Dr. Amanda Udis-Kessler is a pastor, sociologist, ethicist, author, liturgist, hymnwriter, and sacred music composer. She also offers consulting in areas including creativity, antiracism work for white people, and inclusive liturgy for churches.

Find Amanda: Books: amandaudiskessler.com Worship music: queersacredmusic.com Church consulting: equippingthepropheticchurch.com Vista Grande Community Church UCC: vgcc.org Facebook: facebook.com/amanda.udiskessler YouTube: @amandaudiskessler

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

Cat was 14 when years of volatility in her home finally came to a head — not because her parents chose it, but because her school finally made it real. The staff had been watching Cat, and they were seeing behaviors concerning enough to reach out to her mother. That call was the catalyst. Her mom got out. And Cat's own memory is that her mom had been trying, for as long as Cat could remember, to find a way.

Leaving wasn't the end of the instability. In many ways, the divorce created a different kind of pain. Cat navigated rejection from her father. She lost a brother. Both parents continued to stir the pot of conflict from opposite sides, for years. The despair didn't end when the marriage did. Some measure of peace came only after her father passed, when Cat discovered a few items he had left behind — small proof of something she had needed for a very long time. But life with him in it was always hard.

What Cat took from all of it is what makes this episode as inspiring as it is difficult to hear: she learned how to raise her own son differently, how to do better in the very places her own parents couldn't. Her story is hard in moments and remarkable in the ways she conquered it for herself and her healing.

"What hurts the most isn't the separation — it's the shouting, the blame, the cold shoulders... What heals is choosing to protect your child's heart more than your ego." — Dr. Daniela Tempesta

Cat's book recommendation: Embrace Abundance

About Cat: Cat York is the host of the Recovery Catalyst Podcast, a space dedicated to honest conversations about addiction, recovery, and the path to healing. As a mom and storyteller, Cat strives to shine a light on these challenging topics with a focus on curiosity rather than a quick cure, fostering a deeper sense of connection and understanding.

Find Cat:

• Linktree (all links): linktr.ee/RecoveryCatalystPodcast
• Instagram & Threads: @recovery_catalyst_podcast

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

James was three when his parents divorced. In an arrangement that flipped custody conventions of the time, his dad was awarded primary custody — because between his father and his grandparents, that side of the family offered the more stable home. His mom got 35 days a year. All of it was difficult, but Dad was the anchor.

James walks us through what he calls the "hostage exchange" — the emotionally loaded handoffs when parenting time switched. His stepfather added some calm to the chaos, but the underlying relationship with his mother was volatile, and it stayed that way. Throughout his childhood, the men in his life — his dad, his grandfather, his stepfather — were the heroes. School years were unsettled: he never quite fit in, always missing enough time with friends to build the bonds other kids took for granted. When he was finally old enough to drive, the ability to choose where he was going brought a kind of comfort he hadn't felt before.

Now, James channels all of it into purpose. He talks about the breakdown he sees when very masculine men are pushed out of custody conversations by outdated gender assumptions, and the concept of parental capacity — the idea that if you know what you're good at as a parent, you should parent from there, instead of pretending to be something you're not. And he shares an insight most guests don't touch: how children of divorce, when they're consistently exposed to parental conflict, can drift into suicidal ideation — and how much it matters to name that out loud, early and often. Through Lomender's Lodge, James has become exactly what his own tagline says: the man he needed, when he needed one.

About James: James "Lomender" Wiley is the creator and host of Lomender's Lodge, where he explores masculinity and relationship dynamics through honest conversations and stories of personal growth — both his own and his guests'. His mission is to "be the man you needed when you needed one," offering a positive, authentic voice for men and boys of all ages and backgrounds seeking guidance in today's complex world.

Find James:

• Website: lonewolfspeaking.wordpress.com
• Instagram: @lonewolf902
• YouTube: @LomendersLodge
• Threads: @lonewolf902

A note on this episode: This conversation touches briefly on suicidal ideation as it relates to children exposed to ongoing parental conflict. If you or someone you love is struggling, please reach out — in the U.S., you can call or text 988 to reach the Suicide & Crisis Lifeline, 24/7.

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

Heather was an only child whose parents divorced when she was very young — too young to remember the before, with no real memories until the age of awareness, when she began to realize she lived differently from her friends. What sets her story apart on In Between Them is what came next: she successfully navigated a 2-2-3 schedule for her entire childhood. Why it worked is the part most adult children of divorce never get to experience. Her parents were friendly. They accepted each other. Her father's extended family welcomed her mother. Much of her childhood was done together, even when technically it wasn't as a family. There were still ups and downs — nothing is perfect — but her parents did this well.

Heather connects clear dots between that childhood and the adult patterns she's spent years untangling: people-pleasing, abandonment fears, the low-key vigilance that comes from constant transitions, even amicable ones. Hers is the story that proves something important: even when divorce is done well, it still breeds insecurities and difficulties that go beyond the normal stuff of childhood. Being an only child layered on top of it — beautiful in many ways, lonely in others. Both can be true.

That lived experience is exactly what shaped Heather into the toxic-relationships coach she is today. She sees the clear thread from her parents' two homes to the women she now helps reclaim their self-worth and build emotionally healthy relationships. The joy and lightness she brings to this conversation is a testament to both the foundation her parents built and the deep self-reflection she's done on her own.

Heather's book recommendations: Radical Acceptance by Tara Brach and The Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera.

About Heather: Heather Melville is a relationship coach, speaker, and founder of Healthy Relationships, where she helps women heal from toxic relationship patterns and reclaim self-worth so they can create emotionally healthy relationships. Known for her lighthearted, engaging, and refreshingly honest speaking style, she blends humor, storytelling, and practical psychology to make deep emotional topics approachable and actionable.

Find Heather:

Website: healthyrelationships.info

Instagram: @healthyrelationships.coach

Facebook: Healthy Relationships Coaching

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/heathermelville756

Email: [email protected]

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

Kelly was 14 when her parents' divorce arrived out of nowhere. The oldest of five — a mix of biological and adopted siblings — she watched the family split down a line that would shape the next decade: Dad took the older girls, Mom took the younger children. Both parents had new partners almost immediately, and Dad moved Kelly and her sister four hours away from everything they had known.

What followed is a pattern adult children of divorce will recognize: alienation by way of narrative. Dad made sure the older daughters saw their mother as the villain and him as the victim — and so Kelly and her sister protected him, took care of him, and stepped into a kind of premature adulthood. She didn't speak to her mom from 14 to 24. Her coping mechanism was work — she started as soon as she could, anything to get out of the house. The way back to her mother didn't come until adulthood, when Kelly reached out slowly on her own terms. Her mom was receptive but respected Kelly's boundaries — and that, Kelly is clear, is exactly why it worked.

Then came the parallel she didn't see coming. The girl who spent ten years estranged from her mother is now, in her own divorce, the mother of an estranged son. It feels, she says honestly, like a kind of karma — and it has changed everything about how she understands what her own mom went through. What she's learning is hard and clear: when a child blames you, don't force yourself on them. But don't disappear, either. Check in. Kelly sends her son a text every single week. It goes unanswered. She'll keep sending them anyway, until he comes back — the same steady, unforced presence her mom once gave her, now offered forward.

About Kelly: Dr. Kelly Barron is a chiropractor, menopause specialist, and sexual wellness educator who founded the women's health platform Tempesta. As host of The KellFire Show, she amplifies the voices of midlife women, exploring how navigating major life transitions can serve as a powerful catalyst for healing past trauma.

Find Kelly:

• Website: thekellfireshow.com
• Instagram: @iamkellfire and @thekellfireshow

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

Ashlynn's parents were never married. She grew up full-time with her mom — one of four kids by four different dads, in a household supported by welfare and church. Her dad was in her life, but shockingly not on her birth certificate and not until she was two. Her entire childhood was built on the foundation of two people who had never been together and never got along. Both parents spoke badly about the other, and Ashlynn has no memory of them interacting.

The teen years were the hardest. No male figure at her mom's. No real sense of welcome at her dad's, where her step-mother made no effort to help her feel like she fit in. She carried deep shame because, as far as she could tell, all of her friends' parents were together. That experience fuels something Ashlynn has now reclaimed on her own terms: she insists on being called "bonus mom" — never step-parent — in her own blended family. And the two worlds she lived between — welfare and church on one side, affluence on the other — taught her something she now considers a gift: how to see across realities most people never get close to.

In her early teens her mom moved to Florida, and Ashlynn stayed with her dad on a trial that quickly blew up. After an incident during a visit with her mother at 14, she effectively stopped speaking to her mom — and hasn't, in any meaningful way, since. Her dad fought for custody to stabilize her life, and she lived with him full-time from 14 through college. The trauma was real, but it resolved with distance, not repair.

As an adult, Ashlynn can name something most people can't yet say out loud about a parent: she understands her mom's desire to control a situation that was never going to be controllable, and she sees the wound underneath it — but understanding has never been the same as excusing. Over time the walls came down through forgiveness — but, importantly, not reconnection. She's clear: there's no place for a relationship when a person's capacity isn't there. The throughline of her story is a wildly undervalued quality — the ability to self-reflect — and the conviction that adults parenting through their own unhealed wounds will pass those wounds along unless they do the work. Ashlynn has done the work, and it is beautiful to see in her own family, but also in how she helps others through her daily work.

Ashlynn's book recommendations: Ego Is the Enemy by Ryan Holiday and Upsiders by Bobby Castro.

Find Ashlynn:

• Website: pivotnexecute.com
• Instagram: @ashlynndohman
• Free Resources to help you THRIVE

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

Becca's earliest memories aren't of her parents fighting — they're of a quieter kind of disconnect, and of hiding, every so often, for reasons she couldn't name at the time. Her parents divorced when she was around three. In an unusual twist, her mom initially kept the family home, then later moved out and her dad moved back in. The same-neighborhood logistics made the back-and-forth easier — but the houses themselves couldn't have been more different. At her mom's, it was mac n cheese. At her dad's, it was filet mignon. Two homes, two worlds, two versions of childhood.

The harder thread Becca pulls on is the disconnect she felt with her father — something she believes came from how much she reminded him of her mother. He was deeply critical, and she spent years chasing validation she couldn't quite catch. Her mom, meanwhile, was on overdrive, running the show so completely that Becca felt she missed out on doing things for herself. Two well-meaning parents, two different overcorrections, and a kid stuck negotiating the space between them.

The redemptive layer of her story: her step-parents turned out to be some of the healthiest influences in her childhood. She had easier, warmer relationships with them than she did with her own parents. And later, the validation she'd waited so long for from her dad finally arrived — through how completely he showed up as a grandfather. He acknowledged that he had missed much of Becca's life, though he attributed much of that to her mother. Imperfect closure, but closure nonetheless.

Becca is candid about the dots she's connected between her childhood and what she now calls the "successful failure" of her own 23-year marriage — and she beautifully exemplifies how she is consciously doing divorce better for her own daughter. A story of deep self-worth questions rooted in childhood, paired with the inspiring adult work of processing, evolving, and arriving somewhere she's genuinely happy with.

Becca's book recommendations: A Good Neighborhood by Therese Anne Fowler and By Any Other Name by Jodi Picoult

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 07:09 Differences in Homes
• 16:15 Impact of Childhood Experience
• 22:03 Revelation and Reflection
• 28:58 Therapy and Understanding
• 35:50 Understanding Divorce and Its Impact
• 45:50 Parental Relationships and Their Impact
• 52:14 Impact of Childhood Experiences on Adulthood
• 59:06 The Impact of Divorce on Children
• 01:05:21 Responsibility in Divorce and Parenting

Tara grew up in Texas, one of many siblings, inside a relationship that broke and rebuilt itself again and again. Her parents split and got back together several times — a cycle marked by volatile fights and an underlying fear her mother carried, even when Tara, as a kid, didn't fully feel or understand it. What she did experience, several times, was the middle-of-the-night pack-up. The quick gathering of things. The leaving. And eventually, a leaving they didn't come back from.

The layer that makes Tara's story so powerful is the incongruence she had to hold: her father had a volatile relationship with her mother, but his relationship with her was warm, steady, and connected. She loved him. Trying to make sense of both truths at once shaped how she sees people, conflict, and family to this day.

Life after the last leaving was anything but stable — the marital home, then the projects, then women's shelters, a trailer park, a string of apartments. And then the part that may hit hardest for anyone who grew up in financial chaos: at 16, Tara started working. Not only for a cell phone bill. She was contributing to her mother for family necessities, an expectation that was never spoken aloud but absolutely understood. That kind of early adultification leaves marks, and she names them clearly.

She married young, and in the ten years that followed, did the slow, real work of growing inside a marriage — coming out the other side stronger, clearer, and remarkably self-aware. Tara's is a story of grit in the truest sense of the word: the quiet, daily kind that builds a whole life one decision at a time.

Find Tara:

• Website: RepandEat.com
• Instagram: @TrainerTara_Fit

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

Chapters

• 00:00 Introduction and Background
• 06:05 Repetitive Separations
• 11:12 Impact on Siblings
• 16:24 Life Before and After Divorce
• 24:23 Life After Divorce
• 34:06 Parents' Relationship After Divorce
• 40:00 Childhood Perceptions of Fear
• 49:42 Revelations and Admissions
• 59:05 Impact of Parental Communication
• 01:14:21 Life-Changing Books

Mark was under two years old when his parents divorced — too young to remember the before, but old enough to spend the rest of his childhood inside the after. In this episode, Mark walks us through one of the most unconventional family arrangements we've featured on the show: a split where his dad first took the two younger siblings and his mom took the two older ones — and then, on what Mark calls "draft day," the family reshuffled again, with his mom taking his sister and his dad taking all three boys.

It's a story that sounds almost impossible to imagine living through, and yet Mark tells it with the matter-of-factness of someone who simply grew up that way. He saw his mom on weekends, but remembers her as deeply present for the things that mattered to him as a kid. His dad remarried a woman who was strict but kind, and Mark got along with her well.

What stays with you in this conversation isn't loud conflict — it's the quiet kind. Mark's parents never fought openly, but there was an underlying tension that was palpable, and he felt it early. He talks about the thing so many kids of divorce will recognize instantly: standing on the field after his games and watching other families gather and chat easily, while his own parents waited in a kind of line-up to talk to him separately. He just wished, simply, that they could have stood there together.

In his later years, an unfortunate conflict at his dad's house moved Mark to his mom's — beginning years of living with her, and years of slow, quiet repair work with his dad. That repair was made harder by the fact that neither parent was a natural communicator of feelings; little things have been acknowledged over the years, but not much, and not loudly.

Mark's is not a story of an overtly contentious childhood — and that's part of what makes it valuable. He's honest about the residual effects he still sees showing up in his own parenting: the ways he's like his dad, and the specific ways he's working to do things differently. His awareness is the through-line.

This episode is a thoughtful look at how childhood experience quietly shapes the parent you become, the lessons pulled from early choices, the importance of unity and non-negotiable values in co-parenting, and how the influence of how parents work together (or don't) lands on the kids.

The conversation closes, as always, with a book recommendation and a lighter note to send you off.

Mark's book recommendation: Band of Brothers

In Between Them is a podcast about what it really feels like to grow up between two homes — hosted by Shannon Darrow, divorce coach, mediator, and adult child of divorce, featuring honest conversations with people about what their parents' divorce shaped, broke, and built in them.

Have a question, a story to share, or interested in being a guest? Reach Shannon directly at [email protected].

Follow the show on Instagram @inbetweenthempod, and if this episode resonated, please rate and review In Between Them on Apple Podcasts or Spotify — it's the single most helpful thing you can do to help other adult children of divorce find the show.

Chapters

• 00:00 Early Life and Family Dynamics
• 05:41 Impact of Divorce
• 15:45 Living Arrangements and Relationships
• 22:14 Moving to Mother's Home
• 31:19 Life Changes and Rapid Transitions
• 37:18 Co-Parenting and Its Impact on Children
• 43:14 The Importance of Co-Parenting and Unity
• 51:43 The Value of Non-Negotiable Parenting Values
• 57:02 Book Recommendations and Lighter Note