In Defense of Fandom

Alright, let's wrap up everything we've learned on endings: from the fan experience to the changes in how TV is made. And of course, we'll try to answer the question of whether we think Supernatural will ever be back for a season 16th.

Support the show on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom

Thanks to the voices you heard in this episode (in order of appearance):

Mark Hampton: NA

Rob Benedict: @RobBenedict

Jeffery Bell: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0068272/ 

Craig Titely: @CraigTitley741 

Ben Edlund: @ben_edlund

Richard Speight Jr: @dicksp8jr

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie

Additional Links of Interest:

Can Hollywood sequel its way to box office success?

AO3 collection of how Chuck won theories

Will Supernatural get a 16th season?!

Also, apologies for the potato-sound quality from my end. A confluence of covid + mic issues = my final audio quality. I promise next season will sound better!

Howdy Y'all! I hope to see some of you at the Austin, Texas Supernatural convention this weekend. Please don't feel shy, come say hi to me. I'll have stickers!

Nothing ever really dies in the land of Hollywood! Reboots, revivals, and resurrections are all possible returns of fan favorite shows. Not that fans always want more of the story...

Support the show on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom

Thanks to the voices you heard in this episode (in order of appearance):

Kevin Grazier: @kevingrazier

Matt Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saintmort/

Gabe Garza: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm4509179/?ref_=ttfc_fc_wr6

Paul Booth: @pbooth81

Elizabeth Minkel: @elizabethminkel

Rebecca Williams: @augustaquarius

Have thoughts on TV endings? I want to hear them!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeuaL485NpQ3iqinVjq7GUAoId0gPqKU26LpQCntngiGhVHgQ/viewform

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie

Additional Links of Interest:

Richard Hatch's support of new BSG: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/tv/la-et-hc-richard-hatch-battlestar-20090105-story.html

Twin Peaks return: https://www.ign.com/articles/2017/09/11/twin-peaks-the-return-review

Twin Peaks revival review: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-reviews/twin-peaks-2017-review-1005878/

Fan euthanasia: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctt22h6qtt

Spring of 2020 was a rough time for basically every industry, and television was no different. COVID-19 restrictions changed the way that television was made and what could be possible; unfortunately, this was at the perfect moment to completely alter the ending of Supernatural.

9:55 and onward contains spoilers for the last 3 episodes of Supernatural, so beware!

Support the show on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom

Thanks to the voices you heard in this episode (in order of appearance):

Rob Benedict: @RobBenedict

Richard Speight Jr: @dicksp8jr

Georgia Carroll: @fansumption

Have thoughts on TV endings? I want to hear them!

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeuaL485NpQ3iqinVjq7GUAoId0gPqKU26LpQCntngiGhVHgQ/viewform

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie

Additional Links of Interest:

Filming supernatural during covid: https://variety.com/2020/tv/news/how-supernatural-filmed-during-covid-19-1234772638/

How covid changed the planned ending: https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2020/11/supernatural-finale-recap-covid-destiel-deans-death-castiel

Look, this is the episode we all knew I was going to do. I can't talk about endings without talking about the different perspectives on Supernatural's finale. Lynn Zubernis joins me for a conversation on the last season, the last episodes, and how different fans interpreted the ending vastly differently from each other.

Spoiler Warnings! Want to avoid all spoilers? Use these timestamps to skip them completely:

Well... in this conversation you wont be able to. Lynn and I discuss multiple aspects of the Supernatural finale, from the general arc of the season to specifics in the last three episodes. If you don't want to be spoiled, you'll have to skip this one.

Support the show on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom

Thanks to Lynn Zubernis for speaking with me on this episode! (@fangasmSPN)

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie

Additional Links of Interest:

Find Lynn's writing here: https://fangasmthebook.com/

Book on how fangirls created the internet: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374539184/everythingineedigetfromyou

Research on the narratives we tell ourselves about our lives: https://www.amazon.com/Redemptive-Self-Stories-Americans-Live/dp/0195176936

Hannah Gadsby's Nannette: https://www.netflix.com/title/80233611

Not all shows end. Or, at least they don't conform to what we tend to think of as an ending. This episode is an exploration of three short vignettes.

Oh! And no need to worry about a spoiler during this episode!

Support the show on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom

Thanks to the voices you heard in this episode (in order of appearance):

Mark Hampton:

Maggie O'Connor: @maggie.in.the.middle

Katie Hampton: @ElSassyPants

Rebecca Williams: @augustaquarius

Paul Booth: @pbooth81

Elizabeth Minkel: @elizabethminkel

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie

Additional Links of Interest:

popularity of reality tv: https://civicscience.com/5-things-you-didnt-know-about-people-who-watch-reality-tv/

How many hours of Star Wars: https://financebuzz.com/star-wars-content-disney-plus

I’m taking a short break to get caught up on writing the scripts for the second half of the season. But, I didn’t want to leave your podcast playlist empty, so I decided to share this conversation I had back in early May with writer, cartoonist, and TV director Ben Edlund!

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie

Additional Links of Interest:

TV creators face the unique challenge of not knowing how long a particular show will last. Knowing if you’ll have 13 episodes or 13 seasons can radically alter how they’re able to approach the end, but it's a rarity to know when a show has reached the end of the road.

*NOTE: Steph Dizon is no longer employed with Creation Entertainment*

Spoiler Warnings! Want to avoid all spoilers? Use these timestamps to skip them completely:

ALF: 6:07-7:07

The Flash: 17:33-20:52

The Avengers: 23:05-23:44

Agents of Shield: 23:05-26:26

Support the show on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom

Thanks to the voices you heard in this episode (in order of appearance):

Mike Fisher: @fishstandsup

Steph Dizon, Creation Entertainment: @CreationEnt

Rob Benedict: @RobBenedict

Jeff Hersh: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3354593/ 

Craig Titley: @CraigTitley741 

Jeffery Bell: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0068272/ 

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie

Additional Links of Interest:

Video of Jared, Jensen, & Misha announcing the end: https://youtu.be/YVVFZQymnq4?si=8iReLZpIGEZqZnek 

The ending of ALF, explained: https://www.syfy.com/syfy-wire/alf-nbc-alien-comedy-ending-explained

Threshold TV show’s premature end: http://www.bullz-eye.com/television/interviews/2009/david_goyer.htm

Why Firefly was canceled: https://www.cinemablend.com/television/why-did-firefly-get-cancelled-what-happened-to-the-sci-fi-series

How to watch the Arrowverse crossover events: https://www.themarysue.com/heres-a-detailed-guide-to-watching-the-arrowverse-crossovers-in-order/

Does it matter if the show is more episodic vs narrative for how the ending is perceived by the fandom? How much does a show have to set up in earlier seasons to earn its payoff at the end? Let’s talk about TJLC, or The JohnLock Conspiracy in BBC’s Sherlock fandom, and the Chekov’s gun that was the premise for How I Met Your Mother.

Spoiler Warnings! Want to avoid all spoilers? Use these timestamps to skip them completely:

How I met your mother: 8:51-11:50

Sherlock: 17:25-19:07

**CLARIFICATION**

First, in the previous episode I said that Banana Fish has the highest percentage of works tagged fix it. Although Toast did their best to pull a representative sample, we still can’t say Banana Fish is definitively the top show in this metric. There could well be other fandoms with even higher percentage, but that weren’t captured in that review.

Second, I misspoke and implied that tag wranglers on AO3 add tags to works. That’s not accurate. Wranglers organize tags and sometimes create metatags that can be used to search or filter for subtags, but it’s only authors who can add tags to their own works.

Sorry for the confusion!

***

Support the show on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom

Have thoughts on TV endings? I want to hear them! 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeuaL485NpQ3iqinVjq7GUAoId0gPqKU26LpQCntngiGhVHgQ/viewform

Thanks to the voices you heard in this episode (in order of appearance):

Mike Fisher: @fishstandsup

Casey Mendoza: @CaseyMdoza

Matt Kelly: https://www.linkedin.com/in/saintmort/

Elizabeth Minkel: @elizabethminkel

Georgia Carroll: @fansumption

Rob Benedict: @RobBenedict

Richard Speight Jr: @dicksp8jr

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie

Additional Links of Interest:

The Guardian, on the end of Sherlock: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2017/jan/16/sherlock-finale-smallest-audience-bbc-benedict-cumberbatch-martin-freeman

Vox, on the end of Sherlock: https://www.vox.com/2017/1/16/14279588/sherlock-finale-final-problem-review

Screenrant, on the end of Sherlock: https://screenrant.com/sherlock-season-finale-cliffhanger-ending-problem/

Fanlore’s entry on TJLC: https://fanlore.org/wiki/The_Johnlock_Conspiracy

Rob’s line read of “Welcome to the end” (S14E23)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0q4atKVpNOg

**CLARIFICATION**

First, in this episode I said that Banana Fish has the highest percentage of works tagged fix it. Although Toast did their best to pull a representative sample, we still can’t say Banana Fish is definitively the top show in this metric. There could well be other fandoms with even higher percentage, but that weren’t captured in that review.

Second, I misspoke and implied that tag wranglers on AO3 add tags to works. That’s not accurate. Wranglers organize tags and sometimes create metatags that can be used to search or filter for subtags, but it’s only authors who can add tags to their own works.

Sorry for the confusion!

Thanks to my background as a scientist, I’m always trying to answer questions with data. And wouldn’t you know it? Destination Toast was happy to answer the call! In this episode, we look into fanfiction on AO3 and see which tv fandoms are still trying to rewrite (or right?) the ending of their favorite shows.

Spoiler Warnings! Want to avoid all spoilers? Use these timestamps to skip them completely:

Banana Fish: 10:02-10:28

Support the show on Ko-Fi: https://ko-fi.com/in_defense_of_fandom

Have thoughts on TV endings? I want to hear them! 

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSeuaL485NpQ3iqinVjq7GUAoId0gPqKU26LpQCntngiGhVHgQ/viewform

 Toast’s Graphs: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1wZbzYs7XpizYHXCKWt4Ntz2RYfVi-wvZ9dkV7fOLvd0/edit#slide=id.g2cb2539deb7_0_214 

Toast’s deep dive into Supernatural: https://archiveofourown.org/works/54262792/chapters/140386390#main

where Toast blogs about fandom data and many other things: destinationtoast.tumblr.com 

Just fandom data: toastystats.tumblr.com

Thanks to the voices you heard in this episode (in order of appearance):

Destination Toast: https://toastystats.tumblr.com/

Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Editorial Support by Dr. Anna Funk: @DrAnnaFunk

Music written & performed by Chris Scott: @Chrispscott

Cover art by Liz Hand: @__ellie