This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora spiral from Mark Zuckerberg's $300 million "Launch Pad" yacht docking in Seattle, conveniently timed with 1,400 local layoffs, into a searching, deeply human conversation with housing advocate and legislative candidate Jaelynn Scott. Together, they unpack trans safety, housing justice, coalition-building, and what it means to practice 'grace in the streets' while communities face escalating political attacks. Along the way, Jaelynn offers a powerful vision of leadership rooted not in optics or ambition, but in care, urgency, and the belief that government should actually protect the people most vulnerable to harm. This episode offers all of us a view of what it looks like to actually govern like people's lives matter.

Mentioned in the episode:

Zuckerberg's dumb yacht | Careless People | The Social Network (2010) | US justice department launches criminal investigation into Trump accuser E Jean Carroll | City of Seattle poised to declare a civil emergency for LGBTQIA+ refugees fleeing red states | No New Youth Jail | Estelita's Library | Fannie Lou Hamer | Juniper Blessing | Graystar | Republicans in South Carolina defy Trump to reject voting map changes | The Needling: Millionaires Tax Erases Only Advantage of Living in Sad, Barren Wasteland

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Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with worker-owner Mark Paschal of Seattle co-ops Jude's Old Town and Rosette for a conversation about what happens when workers stop asking capitalism for dignity and start building alternatives themselves. Between billionaire slush funds, Jeff Bezos embarrassment, and the slow collapse of the "customer is always right" economy, Mark lays out a radically practical vision of worker power, mutual aid, and community-owned futures: one shared meal, one workplace, and one neighborhood at a time.

Mentioned in the episode:

Jude's | Rosette | REI Union | Dean Spade episode | The Boys | NAACP Boycott |

Support the pod:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Fifty-one episodes. Countless headlines. Several existential spirals. At least one national meltdown per week. And somehow, against all odds and several algorithms designed to emotionally flatten us into paste, we're still here. A year ago, Nora and Marcus started asking a deceptively simple question: what does it mean to live through this, and still remain human? Fifty-one episodes later, they're still asking. Because somewhere between the ICE raids and the mutual aid networks, the authoritarian absurdity and the small, stubborn acts of civic courage, In The Meanwhile accidentally became less of a podcast and more of a survival guide for people trying not to lose themselves in history's group chat from hell.

In this retrospective, Marcus and Nora return to the conversations, guests, grief, jokes, and stubborn flashes of joy that shaped the show's first year: the voices that cracked them open, and the ones that quietly stitched them back together. The everyday people who reminded them that survival and surrender are not the same thing, and that the difference between them is often the people you choose to stay present with.

This isn't just a look back. It's a reckoning with what it means to remain emotionally awake in a world that rewards numbness, commodifies despair, and teaches people to survive by disconnecting from one another. This episode is for anyone still trying to find their footing in the meanwhile. Because maybe the real point of all of this is that in the face of everything urging us to retreat into fear, cynicism, or isolation, we kept reaching for each other anyway. Even here. Even now. Especially now.

Mentioned in the episode:

Marketplace: impact of gas shortage still to come | Gina Baskin | Minneapolis episode | Civic Bravery | Nilu Jenks | Gabriel Teodros | Douglas Rushkoff | Ijeoma Oluo | South Seattle Emerald | Amelia Maris Bonow | Daudi Abe | Maggie Humphreys | A People's History of the United States | Howard Zinn on hope | Chelsea Handler roast |

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with policy powerhouse Maggie Humphreys for a conversation about motherhood, caregiving, misogyny, and why American families are forced to hold themselves together with duct tape and unpaid labor. From childcare that costs more than college tuition to the fight for paid family leave, Maggie breaks down why the U.S. doesn't actually have "family values" so much as a habit of expecting women to absorb societal collapse with a smile.

It's a sharp, funny, deeply human episode about care work, policy victories, billionaire absurdity, and why Norway decided "zero maternal deaths" was, in fact, achievable. Plus: the Met Gala gets dragged, Jeff Bezos gets projected on, and Spirit Airlines becomes a co-op meme.

Mentioned in the episode:

Met Gala pranks | Insta message from Mary Hill | Tax dollars on ballroom | Seattle Children's helicopters | Brianna Thomas episode | US is last for maternal mortality | Zero maternal deaths in Norway in 2022 | Washington's PFMLA | Jess Calarco | Mifepristone | Mary Hill on BlueSky |

Support the pod:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora sit down with Peter Beinart for a searching conversation about identity, power, and moral reckoning in the wake of Gaza.

Drawing from his book Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza, Beinart challenges the narratives that bind community to state, and asks what it means to confront complicity: honestly, publicly, and at personal cost. From apartheid South Africa to the American South, he traces how systems of supremacy justify themselves, and how they can be undone.

This isn't just a conversation about Israel and Palestine. It's about the stories we inherit, the ones we tell ourselves, and what it takes to change them.

Mentioned in the episode:

Voting Rights Act decision | Shelby County v. Holder, 2013 | Rusho v. Common Cause | Hannah Fried episode | Power Coalition for Equality and Justice in Louisiana | Being Jewish After the Destruction of Gaza | Peter Beinart at Town Hall Seattle May 18 | Keeanga-Yamahtta Taylor |

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with Professor Emily M. Bender for a reality check that cuts through the Silicon Valley fever dream.

Because apparently we're all supposed to believe "AI" is either our robot overlord or our climate-saving bestie, and Bender's like: absolutely not, please log off. She dismantles the doomers and the boosters in one clean sweep, exposing how both camps are basically running PR for the same hype machine.

The truth? These systems don't understand you. They're not your friend. They're not your therapist. They're a mirror with a marketing budget. From "stochastic parrots" to the deeply cursed illusion of machine empathy, this conversation drags the tech narrative out of its TED Talk haze and into the real world, where power, profit, and some very human decisions are shaping what comes next. It's a reminder that if we're going to fight for the future, we should probably start by understanding what's actually in front of us.

Mentioned in the episode:

Atlantic: the FBI DIrector is MIA | TMZ Gets Political | Idiocracy (2006) | Palantir Manifesto | Time AI 100 (2023) | The AI Con | Mystery AI Hype Theater 3000 | Sparks of AGI paper | Octopus Thought Experiment Paper | Using Language by Herb Clark | The Conduit Metaphor by Michael J. Reddy | De-anthropomorphizing AI paper | Abeba Berhane - inherently conservative machine learning | Sam Altman May Control Our Future—Can He Be Trusted? | The 'Stochastic Parrots Paper' | Emma Strubell | William Agnew | Five New Data Centers Eyed for Seattle | Sonya Drimmer Essay | Empire of AI | Emily Bender's Katz Lecture | Chris Gilliard | MJ Crockett | Carmen Maria Machado | Near- Life Experiences: The Pillow Writers Anthology, Issue 2 | The Power of the River

Support the pod:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

As headlines spiral from burning warehouses to unholy warfare between the Vatican and White House, Nora and Marcus sit down with civil rights attorney and Copaganda author Alec Karakatsanis to ask a sharper question: what if the story we're being told about crime, safety, and justice is the real manipulation?

Karakatsanis pulls back the curtain on how media, political power, and what he calls the "punishment bureaucracy" don't just report reality, but shape it. From the selective storytelling that fuels fear to the bipartisan narratives that quietly expand surveillance and incarceration, this conversation challenges not just what we believe, but how we came to believe it. It's a bracing, necessary deep dive into the machinery behind the headlines, and a reminder that the most effective propaganda doesn't lie. Instead, it decides what truths you're allowed to see.

Mentioned in the episode:

Charles Douglass III episode | Worker who allegedly set fire to California warehouse compares self to Luigi Mangione | molotov cocktail at Sam Altman's house | Is it normal for the U.S. president to spar with the Pope? | Eric Swalwell and Tony Gonzales resign from Congress amid sexual misconduct allegations | Civil Rights Corps | Copaganda: How Police and the Media Manipulate Our News | BlueSky thread related to Katie Wilson's surveillance town hall | Anand Pandian episode | Beacon Hill Light Rail Elevator friends | Hungary election celebrations following Viktor Orban ouster |

Follow Alec:

BlueSky

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In the Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora wade through a truly unhinged news cycle: war threats, political absurdity, late-stage empire vibes, and land on something rare: a conversation that actually feels like it offers hope.

Enter Washington State Representative Brianna Thomas, who joins the show to talk about the state's new "millionaires' tax", and, more importantly, who it's for, who it's not for, and why the people who've been carrying this system on their backs for decades are finally asking for a little redistribution of the load.

What follows is part policy breakdown, part reality check, part "why are we like this as a country?" Thomas is refreshingly uninterested in pretending that extreme inequality is either normal or inevitable. She names the obvious: working people are paying more, getting less, and being told to be grateful for it. She then walks through what it actually looks like to try to change that, in real time, inside a system that resists change at every turn.

There's talk of greed, of course. But also of courage, organizing, and the very radical idea that maybe, just maybe, the wealthiest among us can afford to contribute to the society that made their wealth possible.

Mentioned in the episode:

Trump claims the last 7 presidents are praising him | Politico: Republicans losing clout | Wisconsin flip | CNN: real polling shifts happening | Charles Douglas III episodes | Gina Baskin episode | Millionaire's Tax | 25 hour debate about millionaire tax | Artemis mission | Ijeoma Oluo episode |

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Laura Marquez-Garrett, a plaintiff's attorney at the forefront of a landmark legal battle against Big Tech. Fresh off two historic court victories, Laura pulls back the curtain on how social media companies design products to addict and harm young users, and what it took for families to finally start holding them accountable.

What emerges is both chilling and clarifying: a system built not by accident, but by design. And yet, through the tenacity of parents, survivors, and a handful of relentless lawyers, a long-impossible fight is beginning to turn.

It's a conversation about power, profit, and the cost our kids are paying, but also about what it looks like to refuse defeat, and to believe that even the most entrenched systems can be challenged, and changed.

Mentioned in the episode:

BBC: No Kings protests draw large crowds to rally against Donald Trump | Judge temporarily halts construction of Trump's White House ballroom | NPR: No Kings rallies across the U.S., more troops deployed | Gina Baskin episode | Supreme Court seems poised to reject Trump's birthright citizenship limts | New Mexico Social Media Verdict | California Verdict against Instagram and Google | Laura on Democracy Now | Laura on Time 100 list for Health in 2026 | Social Media Victims Law Center | The Social Dilemma | Frances Haugen | Careless People | Parents Rise | Heat | Kids Online Safety Act (KOSA) | World's First Known Dog | Aldis Hodge | Louis Theroux: Inside the Manosphere | Gabriel Teodros episode

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

Instagram | BlueSky | Website

Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

In this week's episode of In The Meanwhile, we do that uncomfortable, but necessary, thing where the abstractions of war fall away, and the human cost steps all the way into the room.

Nora and Marcus sit down with Gina Baskin, fresh out of the military and bringing a level of clarity that cuts clean through the usual talking points. She unpacks what war actually asks of the people sent to fight it, and what it takes from them in return. Not strategy nor geopolitics. But the intimate, irreversible weight of being asked to kill in a war you don't believe in.

Gina brings us inside the lived reality behind the headlines: the weight of service, the myth of protection, and the quiet ways systems, from foster care to the military, promise belonging while demanding sacrifice. And she does it with a mix of honesty, bite, and just enough humor to keep you from fully spiraling. As a queer veteran and organizer, she's not just challenging the narratives we've inherited about safety and power, but flipping them and asking who gets protected, who gets used, and who we've decided is expendable.

If you've only ever understood war from a safe, scrollable distance, this episode closes that gap, and doesn't let you look away.

Mentioned in the episode:

ID bathroom law | IOC trans women ruling | War is a Racket | ASVAB Waivers | Study: seeing a woman as a collection of body parts | Queer gun clubs | MAHA and public health scientists collaborate

Support the pod:

Donate here to support In The Meanwhile

Follow us:

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Read Nora and Marcus's Books:

Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise

Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission.

Logo by Nikki Barron.

Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.

Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.