Andy Cam and Todd Glister talk about how apprenticeships have become so much of a burden in terms of cost and effort that many small to medium sized businesses in construction are now turning away from the system. They talk to a Carpenter who has gone from 16 apprentices in 2019 to 0 today - to find out what's going wrong. They catch up with a Plumbing & Heating business owner that still can't justify the cost to the business and find out what JTL think about the current system. Guests: Andrew Green, Darren Dimmock, Clair Bradley.