If we’re the frogs, it’s getting hot in here (And no, JT hasn’t heard the 2002 Nelly hit of the same name).

Thanks to former U.S. Attorney Joyce White Vance for joining us live on Substack to dissect a plethora of headlines, why we’re (again) the frogs in the increasingly hot pot of water, and the importance of civil discourse in this moment. Plus, the individual actions that keep Vance an optimist, and why she’s confident we won’t see the nationalization of elections.

We also spend time discussing her book, Giving Up Is Unforgivable: A Manual for Keeping a Democracy, which combines lessons on history and civics and provides a roadmap for survival. Oh, and chickens—both literal and figurative.