Hi, everyone. I’m Sam Shirazi, and this is Federal Fallout, the 2025 Virginia elections. This episode, we will go over a ruling by the Virginia Supreme Court about redistricting and the fact that they allowed Virginia redistricting to go forward.

00:16.02

Sam Shirazi

However, they also left open the possibility that after the redistricting referendum, they might make a final ruling. This was basically an interim ruling or interim order.

00:26.74

Sam Shirazi

And so I kind of want to unpack all that. And then I want to talk about the redistricting referendum. But long story short, the short version is the Virginia Supreme Court allowed the redistricting referendum to go forward on April 21st.

00:41.72

Sam Shirazi

Early voting will start on March 6th. So really right around the corner. And so I think overall, you have to say this is a good outcome for the Democrats, at least in the short term, because in theory, the Virginia Supreme Court could have said the redistricting referendum couldn’t go forward or could have made a very complicated legal decision where really left open the doubt about whether the redistricting referendum is going to happen.

01:04.82

Sam Shirazi

I think the Virginia Supreme Court was very clear that the redistricting referendum is moving forward. I think after that, they’re a little bit less clear about what’s going to happen. But I think for now, the Democrats will just take that. They’re going to run the redistricting referendum, and then we’ll see what happens there.

01:20.70

Sam Shirazi

And ultimately, there’s still some legal questions hanging around. So it’s not like 100% certain the Democrats have won the legal case. But in the grand scheme of things, they certainly got the better end of it.

01:33.02

Sam Shirazi

And I think after this order came from the Virginia Supreme Court, I think Democrats were feeling pretty good. Republicans were a bit demoralized. And so I want to kind of unpack first all the legal issues, like what the Supreme Court actually said, why it said it, what it might do.

01:50.26

Sam Shirazi

And then after that, I’ll talk about the redistricting referendum itself, because that’s 100% going to move forward. So just to give you a little bit of background, the reason this has gotten to the Virginia Supreme Court is because a lower court in Tazewell County entered a ruling which on the merits mainly ruled for the Republicans, but significantly had a very narrow relief for the parties. And I’ll go through all what all that means, all that legalese stuff.

02:20.41

Sam Shirazi

But I guess my point is, that there there was a lower court ruling and made it to the Virginia Supreme Court. And I guess when I did my podcast on that ruling, I kind of neglected to spend time on the actual thing the court ordered. And I want to spend more time analyzing that now because I think it’s really important to understand why the Virginia Supreme Court ruled the way it did.

02:41.44

Sam Shirazi

And I think part of what I’ve been thinking about, the more I thought about the lower court decision, over the past couple of weeks, the more I kind of had a feeling this Virginia Supreme Court might go down the route they did. And i’ll kind of explain why that’s the case and i’ll kind of unpack that.

02:57.76

Sam Shirazi

So what the lower court found in the actual ruling, like on the merits of the case, you know, was the redistricting referendum process correct or not. So very clear the lower court found the Democrats didn’t follow the right process. However, I think the really strange part of that opinion is the order act the order the thing that it ordered or the actual relief that Republicans got was very, very narrow. And so you had this kind of big opinion that basically said the Democrats did everything wrong.

03:29.88

Sam Shirazi

But then the actual relief that the lower court ordered was very narrow. So I’m going to read what the lower court So, ordered in terms of the actual relief. So it said the court hereby grants a temporary and permanent injunction requiring the clerk of the circuit court of Tazewell county to pose to post the proposed constitutional amendment at least ninety days before the next ensuing election of the members of the house of delegates election so Basically, the the only thing the lower court said was the local clerk in Tazewell County has to post the redistricting referendum notices.

04:08.12

Sam Shirazi

That’s all the court said. The court didn’t say Tazewell County can’t hold a redistricting referendum, didn’t say the state state of Virginia can’t hold a redistricting referendum. Nothing applied to the Virginia Department of Elections. like it literally just told the local clerk, you have to post the notices.

04:24.60

Sam Shirazi

And I think the Virginia Supreme Court really latched on to the fact that this was a very narrow order in terms of what was actually the relief the Republicans got. Because the Virginia Supreme Court said, given the limited scope of the injunctive relief issued at the circuit court’s order, and then it it reads the circuit court order, it says, the denial of motions to say has no effect on the referendum scheduled on April 21, 2026.

04:54.17

Sam Shirazi

So what that basically means in a lot of legal language is the April 21st redistricting referendum is allowed to move forward because the lower court didn’t say anything about the redistricting referendum itself.

05:06.90

Sam Shirazi

And you know it’s kind of odd that that the lower court issued such a very narrow relief in terms of what the Republicans were trying to get. So I wanted to just kind of break that down for the non-lawyers out there. So i mentioned this before, I’m an attorney, and so I like to think about legal issues.

05:26.49

Sam Shirazi

And one of my favorite classes in law school was called Remedies. And Remedies is basically what do you get after you win a lawsuit because you can win something on the merits. So you might be right legally, like, yes, your position is correct. You win on the law.

05:42.16

Sam Shirazi

But then the rubber hits the road in what you get. And so in some things like a car accident, it’s pretty straightforward. You’re going to get money. If you get in a car accident, you get hurt and you win your lawsuit, you’re going money. And that’s not super complicated.

05:57.26

Sam Shirazi

I think where it gets complicated is in non-monetary cases and what are called equitable cases where the Virginia Republicans are going to the court and are asking for something. And I think as a lawyer, it’s very important, one, to make sure you ask for the right thing, and two, to always keep in mind what did the court give you. Because what happened in the Tazewell County Court is that the judge basically, in the opinion, said all these things. Yeah, the Republicans are right.

06:26.67

Sam Shirazi

Democrats did everything wrong. But at the end of the day, he didn’t give the Republicans that much. He literally just told the local clerk, post the notice. And what the Virginia Supreme Court is saying This is being appealed. We’re taking the appeal and we’re going to create a scheduling order for when we’re going to get briefs and all that.

06:45.25

Sam Shirazi

But there’s nothing about the redistricting referendum itself that we need to rule on right now because the lower court didn’t make any sort of finding about the redistricting referendum. So whatever we’re ruling on today in this order, it does not stop the redistricting referendum. And you can make an argument.

07:03.03

Sam Shirazi

That’s because the Virginia Supreme Court is basically saying, like we don’t have the power to stop the redistricting referendum because that’s not what’s before us. But what before what’s before us is the lower court order. Lower court order is ordering the Tazewell County clerk to post the notices.

07:16.76

Sam Shirazi

We’ll review that, but we’re not reviewing the actual referendum itself. And so we have no power to say yes or no to the referendum at this stage. However, I think the other odd thing about the Virginia Supreme Court opinion was at the very end, they put the last sentence of this ruling. It said, nothing in this order shall prevent the parties from raising the underlying arguments and issues as this matter goes forward. And so that kind of vague statement is telling me Virginia Supreme Court’s leaving the door open.

07:46.20

Sam Shirazi

to kind of a final ruling after the redistricting referendum. And if you look at the the briefing schedule that the Virginia Supreme Court has laid out, basically the briefing will be done a couple days after the redistricting referendum.

08:00.91

Sam Shirazi

So basically, the Virginia Supreme Court is saying we’re not going to be rushed into this. We’re going to let the redistricting referendum happen. And then we’ll get some briefs. And if we want oral arguments, we’ll ask for oral arguments. But basically, expect a ruling from us sometime, probably in May.

08:16.91

Sam Shirazi

And we’ll let you know later. And we’re not going to stop the redistricting referendum. So again, overall, I would say good news for the Democrats, but they’re not 100% out of the woods yet because the Virginia Supreme Court has left open the possibility about a final ruling.

08:31.37

Sam Shirazi

And I think there are essentially three possibilities about how the Virginia Supreme Court. One possibility is the redistricting referendum is not approved by the voters. And that’s kind of the easy case for the Virginia Supreme Court, because if the voters don’t approve it, they can just say the case is moot.

08:47.50

Sam Shirazi

You know, there’s no point for us to rule because this isn’t going happen and there’s nothing for us to rule on. I think where it gets more complicated is if the voters say, yes, we approve this referendum.

08:59.21

Sam Shirazi

And then the Virginia Supreme Court has to make a final call. I think they could say, be basically buy all the Democrats’ arguments. The Democrats are right on the law and everything was valid with the redistricting referendum and there’s no problem.

09:11.18

Sam Shirazi

I think that’s one way it could end. the other. The other way it could end is kind of a trickier version of that, which is essentially, yeah it’s futile, the redistricting referendum was already granted, or approved, so there’s no point in us, you know, striking it down at this stage, it’s basically too late.

09:28.45

Sam Shirazi

So what the circuit court ordered was essentially so narrow that there’s really nothing for us to do. We can’t, on appeal, you know undo the referendum. I think that’s also a possibility. They basically just find a procedural way to get out of it, and or they just kind of lean on the fact that the voters approved it, and we as a court, we’re not going to come in and overturn what the voters approved.

09:50.92

Sam Shirazi

I think that is a possibility as well. I think the last possibility, which is kind of the Hardest one to imagine, but I don’t think the Virginia Supreme Court has foreclosed it, is that they say basically the Republicans are right, the redistricting referendum never should have happened, and so we’re going to declare it null and void.

10:08.52

Sam Shirazi

I think that’s going to be really – you know Unlikely in some ways, because I think it’s just going to be so strange for a court to allow referendum to go forward that costs millions of dollars and then to just say, actually, we shouldn’t have allowed it to go forward or it shouldn’t have been held.

10:23.45

Sam Shirazi

Not saying that it’s impossible that that would happen because the Virginia Supreme Court did leave open that possibility. However, I think most people rightly assume, you know, the Virginia Supreme Court, if if they really thought that this referendum was illegitimate and invalid, they would have stopped it from happening.

10:41.92

Sam Shirazi

And it’s kind of unfair to the voters to make them go through this whole hassle to vote, potentially approve it. And then at the end, the Virginia Supreme Court basically says, you know what, we were kidding. The referendum shouldn’t have happened. And so that was a complete waste of time.

10:55.95

Sam Shirazi

I mean, I don’t want to say that’s impossible, but I think it seems somewhat unlikely that the Virginia Supreme Court would do that. So long story short, we’re just going have to wait and see. I think the legal stuff for now is going to take a backseat because obviously redistricting referendum is going to happen.

11:11.62

Sam Shirazi

And that’s going to be the main focus of what’s going to be going on forward. So anyway, super interesting stuff. I mean, i think me for me as a lawyer, I find it interesting thinking about this stuff. Most non-lawyers are probably thinking, you know, this is all a little bit crazy. The the lower court opinion with such a narrow relief granted to the Republicans, the Virginia Supreme Court punting all this to later until after the referendum.

11:36.88

Sam Shirazi

But I do think, you know, I’ll stop talking about legal stuff in a second. But the last point is just really, it is really important to think about what is the relief that is being sought? What is the relief that is being granted? Just because you win a case on the merits doesn’t mean you’re going get what you want.

11:53.62

Sam Shirazi

And there’s a lot of ways, both at the lower court and the appellate court, courts can use kind of procedural things or all these different tactics to kind of get to a ruling eventually, even if they don’t rule on the underlying case. So I think the Virginia Supreme Court may be playing a little bit of that game here. And, you know, at the, at the US Supreme court, there’s something called the shadow docket where basically the Supreme court is making rulings without hearing the entire case. And I do think this was a little bit of Virginia Supreme court shadow docket ruling where they didn’t make the final decision about the case, but I think,

12:30.59

Sam Shirazi

it’s a signal letting the redistricting referendum going forward that maybe they are more likely to vote to side with the Democrats because I think if they thought the Republicans had a really strong case, you know, you would imagine they might try to stop the referendum.

12:45.29

Sam Shirazi

But again, courts are unpredictable. I think this was, kind of an unlikely outcome that happened in this interim ruling. And so it goes to show you, we don’t know what the Supreme Court’s going to do.

12:56.84

Sam Shirazi

I think there’s a lot of different ways this could go. And so we’ll just have to keep an eye on it. But I do think in the short term, things are definitely going to be shifting away from the Virginia Supreme Court and to the actual redistricting referendum itself.

13:09.09

Sam Shirazi

Okay, now let’s turn to the politics of the redistricting referendum. Because Now we know for certain there will be a redistricting referendum on April 21st. And we also know that early voting will be starting on March 6th. So that is very soon. That’s definitely coming up and not a whole lot of time for both sides to organize, to educate their voters, to convince voters, to get out their voters.

13:33.46

Sam Shirazi

This isn’t like a general election where everyone knows this is happening, you know, months and years beforehand. We’ve known basically since the end of October, this might be happening.

13:44.57

Sam Shirazi

But I think the Republicans particularly had been waiting for the ruling for the Virginia Supreme Court. I think they really didn’t want to run a redistricting referendum. I think when the ruling for the Virginia Supreme Court came out, I think it was pretty obvious the Republicans were pretty demoralized.

14:01.19

Sam Shirazi

Democrats were happy. Now that might be short lived, but at least in the short term, very clearly Republicans are not happy. They don’t want to run a redistricting referendum. I think they know it’s going to be very difficult for them.

14:13.30

Sam Shirazi

And so I kind of want to game out. you know what is the Democratic path, path what is the Republican path? I think the Democratic path is pretty straightforward, and I think it’s probably the one that the side that has the advantage right now. I would say the Democrats have an advantage. And you know there was some polling that suggested that a majority of Virginians supported the redistricting referendum. And I think it’s a pretty straightforward playbook for the Virginia Democrats.

14:41.91

Sam Shirazi

You basically, from their perspective, turn this into a referendum on Trump. You know, if you don’t like Trump or you want to send a message to Trump or you don’t like redistricting in other states, vote for the referendum. Yes.

14:54.68

Sam Shirazi

And that way, Virginia Democrats will redistrict and that will be a way to push back on Trump. And I think that’s a very straightforward message. Donald Trump’s never won Virginia.

15:21.96

Sam Shirazi

You can debate whether it makes more sense to focus it on the redistricting angle versus just generally making it about Trump. But I think very clearly that’s a Democratic strategy. And given the results last November where Democrats got big win, blue wave came to Virginia, I think you have to say the Democrats right now are in the driver’s seat for the redistricting referendum.

15:42.99

Sam Shirazi

However, doesn’t mean the Republicans have no path whatsoever. I think the Republican path is pretty straightforward from their perspective in terms of what they have to do. Not to say that it’s easy, but I think that the the plan is pretty straightforward in that you have to get out your base. You have to fire up your your your Republican supporters, get them out.

16:02.86

Sam Shirazi

I mean, on a really good night, that might get you close to 45%. And then, you know, you just have to convince enough independents in the middle that you know you might not like Trump, but this is you know politics at its worst, and the Democrats are trying to steal these seats and rig the elections and change the maps that are fair maps. And so you make all those arguments and you hope you can get up to 50% based on just getting a good margin with independents.

16:30.06

Sam Shirazi

And not to say that’s impossible, but I think the Republicans just fundamentally have two problems. One is I think the Democrats are going to have a turnout advantage. I think they’re really fired up. They really want to send a message to Trump. And the Republicans after last year’s elections in Virginia have been pretty demoralized, pretty, you know, shell shocked, for lack of better word. So it’s going to be hard for them to turn out all their supporters.

16:52.49

Sam Shirazi

And then with the independents, mean, I think certainly some independents are going to vote against this because they just don’t like the concept of gerrymandering. But I think a lot of independents, I mean, their top priority is Trump and maybe sending a message to Trump. And so for those independents, you know, they’re they’re going to vote for the referendum.

17:11.04

Sam Shirazi

And I think, you know, I talked about this before, know, this could be something similar to the attorney general race where that was Jason Miyares strategy. Jason Miyares’ strategy was I’m going win all the Republicans and then win enough independents and win.

17:22.44

Sam Shirazi

And, you know, he did better than the top of the ticket. But at the end of the day, like most independents didn’t want to vote for Jason Miyares or at least enough of them didn’t want to vote for Jason Miyares because they wanted to send a message immediately.

17:34.42

Sam Shirazi

about Trump. And so that’s why Jay Jones was able to win the attorney general race in a pretty comfortable margin. And it really wasn’t that close at the end. And so I could see something like that happening again. Another example we have is the California redistricting referendum. So last year, California did the same thing that Virginia Democrats have done. The California Democrats wanted to redistrict.

17:53.04

Sam Shirazi

They needed a referendum because they had they needed to change the state constitution. And, you know, at the beginning of that referendum, it it looked like maybe it’s going to be close, but by the end, it was just complete blowout. And,

18:04.43

Sam Shirazi

California Democrats won by a bigger margin than Harris won in 2024. Now, obviously, California a very blue state. So you could make the argument that Trump’s even more unpopular and in California. and But at the end of the day, like that referendum became a referendum on Trump. And I don’t think it’s too far of a stretch to say the Virginia redistricting referendum, there’s decent chance it’s just going to become a referendum on Trump.

18:27.66

Sam Shirazi

And I think the Virginia Republicans just have to be honest about them with with themselves about how are they’re going to convince people. Because I think there’s this elephant in the room about Trump and they don’t want to talk about it And they didn’t want to talk about it in 2025. It didn’t work in 2025.

18:42.66

Sam Shirazi

And I saw something interesting from Delegate Tom Garrett, who used to be a congressman, which is kind of interesting. He used to represent the 5th District. He made a political comeback and is now a delegate in the Virginia House of Delegates. So he’s obviously still involved in Virginia politics. And I saw him basically say something along the lines of, you know, tell me why we should support this redistricting referendum without mentioning Trump and without mentioning any other states.

19:08.18

Sam Shirazi

And I think that’s sometimes this rhetorical device that people use, but it’s like not that convincing because it’s like, yeah, okay, well, the reason we’re having this is because of Trump and because he asked other states, Republican states, to gerrymander. And so like if you don’t want to have that conversation like and you as a Republican and you just kind of want to say the Democrats are bad and it’s not fair they’re doing this, like that’s fine, but that’s not going to convince anyone because if someone is in the middle and they’re like,

19:36.73

Sam Shirazi

I don’t like Trump. I don’t like he told Texas and North Carolina and Missouri they’re gerrymandering their maps. Like, I don’t want to just sit here in Virginia and do nothing. And if you’re the Republicans and you’re like, we’re not going to talk about Trump, we’re not going to talk about other states.

19:49.45

Sam Shirazi

We’re just going to say the Democrats are bad and we’re going to say that this is not fair. That’s not going to convince someone who’s like, yeah, I’m worried about Trump. What are you doing to convince that person? And I don’t think the Republicans really want to admit that that’s the fundamental problem they’re facing. They don’t want to admit that’s what the referendum is going to be about. And I don’t really know what defense they could make other than, you know, Virginia is different. It’s more of a middle state. It doesn’t it’s it’s not fair or i mean, I think the only thing I’ve heard is this gerrymander is like even more extreme than a Republican ones, because

20:22.59

Sam Shirazi

It would create a 10-1 map and basically Virginia is kind of this middle of the road state. So it doesn’t make sense to have a 10-1 map in the middle of the road state. But then there’s other middle of the road states that the Republicans in the past have gerrymandered.

20:35.11

Sam Shirazi

And so I think it’s just a difficult argument. Like North Carolina is also a middle of the road state and it was already gerrymandered to begin with. And then the Republicans gerrymandered again to try to get one more seat out of North Carolina.

20:49.03

Sam Shirazi

Like, you know, you can make in this argument that in North Carolina is basically a light red state and like Virginia is a light blue state. In 2024, know, the state,

20:59.24

Sam Shirazi

very narrowly for Donald Trump, but the House said the the house of Representatives seats, the Republicans won 10 of them, the Democrats only won four of them. And you know you could argue maybe the that de the Virginia gerrymander is even more extreme than that. But at the end of the day, like it might not be that convincing or the people in the middle might not feel that sympathetic to the Republican position because they’re just like, look Republicans have gerrymandered these other states. And for sure, Democrats have also gerrymandered certain states like Illinois. And you know I get that there is this sense of you know we don’t like gerrymandering. People are sick of gerrymandering. But at the end of the day, like I think the fact that this is temporary, what I hear from a lot of people is

21:39.93

Sam Shirazi

who who are leaning towards supporting this is just like Virginia Democrats need to do something and they can’t just allow these other states to be doing this. And anyway, so I do think it’s a difficult position.

21:51.38

Sam Shirazi

And I do think just kind of sitting around all day saying this is not fair without addressing why the Virginia Democrats are doing this, what’s going on in other states, what’s going on with Trump. Like I do think that’s going to be a losing strategy for the Virginia Republicans. It, it,

22:06.92

Sam Shirazi

That’s what kind of what they tried in 2025. They just didn’t want to talk about Doge. They didn’t want to talk about the federal cuts. They didn’t want to talk about Trump. And it’s like, look, at the end of the day, like there’s an elephant in the room. In politics, you have to talk about it. You can’t just ignore it. You can’t just wish it away. You can’t put your head in the sand.

22:24.25

Sam Shirazi

That’s kind of what Winsome Earle-Sears did. And it didn’t really work out for her. And she lost by 15 points. So I do think there’s a world where the Virginia Republicans just ignore the fundamental problem and the reason why the Democrats feel like they need to do this, then you know i think that I think there’s a good chance they’re going to lose. I don’t know if they’re going to lose by 15 points but or maybe just closer to the governor number, sorry, the attorney general number, about 7%.

22:49.57

Sam Shirazi

But I do think it’s hard for the Virginia Republicans to get 50.1% of Virginians to vote against this. If all they’re talking about is this this is unfair. I mean, you know, and I get it. I get it from a Republican perspective.

23:02.18

Sam Shirazi

This seems unfair. But I think from my what the Republicans may be missing is if you’re a Democrat or you’re middle the road voter who’s sitting in Virginia. you know You might be thinking, i don’t want to do this, but we kind of have no choice because of what Donald Trump did in Texas and Missouri and North Carolina by asking these other states to redistrict.

23:24.80

Sam Shirazi

And you know I think it’s not that much of a leap to say if Texas and Missouri and North Carolina didn’t redistrict, Virginia wouldn’t have redistricted. I mean, there are valid arguments to be made, but just ignoring the problem and just saying you know this is 100% the fault of Virginia Democrats, I think is just missing the bigger picture. And and I don’t think it’s going to be persuasive at the end of the day. And I and i really do think that

23:48.65

Sam Shirazi

this is you know going to be a very important redistricting referendum. I think both sides know that. I think there’s going to be a lot of money being poured in. you know I think it’s going to be interesting to see how the campaign plays out, what arguments both sides make.

24:03.78

Sam Shirazi

But at the end of the day, you know this could decide the House of Representatives. I mean, my sense is Democrats are doing pretty well. And so I don’t know if they strictly need the additional seats from Virginia, but it definitely pad their margins, make it easier to take back the House, make it easier for Democrats to flip these seats and spend less money in Virginia than they would have otherwise.

24:25.54

Sam Shirazi

So I think from their perspective, they definitely want to do this. And I think from a Republican perspective, it’s going to be pretty demoralizing if this passes, if the Virginia Supreme Court allows it to happen. I don’t think in Florida there will be enough seats that the Florida Republicans will be able to gerrymander to kind of make up for Virginia. And so it’s possible at the end of the day, after all the redistricting fights in all the states play out, it’s possible the Democrats could come out ahead, which is kind of crazy to think about when this all began. And I think specifically for the Virginia Republicans, it’s going to be very demoralizing if after what happened in 2025,

25:01.62

Sam Shirazi

They lose probably four seats in the House of Representatives. That’s going to be really, really demoralizing. And then in 2027, they’re going to have to face another state Senate and House of Delegates elections where they’re going to be pretty low, low and feeling like they’re not a lot of things are going their way. So right now things are going well for the Virginia Democrats. Not to say that things can’t change in the future.

25:25.75

Sam Shirazi

and I do think the Virginia Republicans will remember this and potentially down the line. I don’t know if they’ll try something similar, but certainly I think they feel very bitter at what the Virginia Democrats are doing.

25:37.75

Sam Shirazi

And, you know, probably for as a country, it would be best if both sides kind of come together, come up with a solution, basically end the gerrymandering wars. I don’t think that’s going to happen in the short term, but maybe in the medium and long term.

25:51.87

Sam Shirazi

That might be able to happen. But anyways, long story short, Virginia redistricting referendum is going to happen April 21st. We will have to wait and see what the Virginia Republicans end up doing in terms of a campaign. We’ll see what the Virginia Democrats end up doing. Then we’ll have to wait for the final election.

26:11.07

Sam Shirazi

a ruling for the Virginia Supreme Court. I’m sure that will be really interesting. if If the maps go into place, then we’ll have to do the primary and then the general election. So still a lot, a lot of stuff to cover. I enjoy following all this stuff. Hopefully people have enjoyed my commentary on it.

26:26.56

Sam Shirazi

I will probably in the next few episodes talk more about the redistricting referendum, talk about some of the dynamics, See what I’m, you know, explain what I’m seeing out there. And yeah, we’ll have to start it all over again in terms of a statewide campaign. Should be really interesting. Never a dull moment in Virginia election. So I appreciate everyone who’s been listening. And this has been a Federal Fallout and i’ll join you next time.

This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit samshirazi.substack.com