Several times a year I get the privilege of catching up with John Nichols. John is editor of The Nation. He is also the associate editor of the Cap Times in the important and beautiful state of Wisconsin. He is somehow also the author of books that go right at the essential questions of money and power in America. This week he joined me from the stacks of the Library of Congress where he is doing research for a new book.
I began by describing the way Republicans and some Democrats are reacting to the results of the recent primary in New York, both saying the party is nominating people too far to the left to win. I knew John would want to set them straight and he did.
There’s an interesting thing that happens when progressives start to do well in primaries. Initially it was unimaginable that an immigrant from Africa who was Muslim and who was 33 years old could be elected mayor of New York City. And whoop, there you go. Mamdani is elected mayor of New York City.
Then there’s, okay well that happened because he’s got a remarkable personality or something. He’s a great communicator whatever, but it can’t it can’t be replicated. It can’t happen again. And then, of course, you saw in all sorts of special elections over the last year, and now in these primary elections, people who Mamdani has backed have won a bunch of races.
You say, oh, well, okay, then that can only happen in New York. But then Chris Rabb won down in Philadelphia.
John is not handwringing about primary results. Nor is he fooled that the results in these elections are a sign of a takeover of the Democratic Party.
The Democratic Party is a great big party. It’s a national party and you will have folks who come from different perspectives in different places.
It’s very funny to me that many of the people who say, oh, the party’s going off the rails, or it’s going to extremes or say that we’ve got to get back to the FDR, to the progressive coalition.
But if you remember the FDR coalition, it included radical folks from New York City, as well as some pretty nasty folks from, you know, some southern states. It included prairie populists from out in the Midwest. It was a very ideologically diverse party.
John provided some history going back to the founding of the Republican Party in Ripon, Wisconsin. He talked about the kind of politics that worked in America when there were two big tent parties. He described the mode of evolution that contributed to the growth of both parties and to social progress in the United States.
Then he contrasted that with the present moment where we no longer have two big tent parties. Today’s GOP is a smaller, ideological or perhaps personalists party. So, when Democrats look to compromise, John explains,
it’s compromising with extremism on the other side. It’s not compromising with the old Republican Party. It’s compromising with people who are taking very, very extreme stances, often stances that are at odds with, a fair distribution of our resources that are wrongheaded on issues of foreign policy and are very troubling as regards democracy.
As a man who writes about politics and cares passionately about America’s future, it’s no surprise that he is a fan of Thomas Paine. I asked him why Paine is still relevant on our 250th birthday.
If you read Common Sense, which I really recommend as a good activity for July 4th, it is an argument against monarchy. It’s an argument against oligarchy. It’s basically saying there’s a better way to do things.
If you read his American crisis, which is what the pamphlet that that Washington had read to the troops, it’s an argument for a patriotism that that can be difficult and demanding and challenging, but you do it because you want to achieve great things.
And if you read his pamphlet, less known Agrarian Justice, which was written in the 1790s, you find you he argued for something, that you might call Social Security. He said that we should tax wealthy people and make sure that we had a country where older people could get the care they needed, younger people could get access to education.
And why did he argue for that? because he said that’s how you achieve democracy when people have, at least some level of security so that then they can go into the great debates about the future of this country, not, in the worst of circumstances, but with a place at the table.
John sees evolution in our big political parties and in our national politics. And he sees the political fights along, brutal as they often are, as the necessary struggle to build a more just nation.
Give a listen, and as always, let us know what you think.
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