Few TV heavyweights have done as much to tell thoughtful, moving stories about teenagers as Jason Katims. While he was a young playwright, Katims broke into the television industry as a staff writer for My So-Called Life — ground zero for realistic depictions of adolescence on TV — then quickly went on to work on any number of iconic teen shows, culminating in his five-season stint as the showrunner of the gorgeous small-town drama Friday Night Lights, following football players in a Texas town.

Katims has, of course, written about non-teenagers too. For six seasons, his Parenthood told thoughtful stories about people struggling with very mundane, very real problems. (It was great.) But he’s gone back to high school with his latest series, Rise. The NBC drama follows teenagers involved with a drama program in a dying Pennsylvania steel town. 

Todd has been hoping to talk to Katims for years now, which made this discussion all the better. Katims touches on the differences between high school football coaches and high school drama directors, the lessons he learned from the legendary creator and producers of My So-Called Life, and how he learned to be judicious in using Friday Night Lights’ most famous catchphrase.