Jay Brave is a spoken word artist and entrepreneur who doesn't identify as "black", arguing that an understanding of ethnic background is far more important than race. But actress, director and fitness instructor Kelechi Okafor has an almost opposite approach to identity and is proud to be, and to identify as, "black".

Here they meet and discuss why they think the way they do, what their experiences have been, where their views meet, and how they see themselves as agents for change.

Producer: Toby Field.