Jazz Cruises Conversations

This episode features a moving and candid listening party session with vocalist Niki Haris, recorded live during the Journey of Jazz cruise. Host Lee Mergner sets the scene as Niki plays and discusses several tracks from her deeply personal and spiritual album, Lift Thine Eyes. Niki reveals the challenging circumstances, including personal loss, her daughter’s diagnosis, and housing struggles, that led her to create this "inspirational record" as a form of self-encouragement and anchoring.

Key Takeaways

• The Album's Inspiration: Niki Haris's album, Lift Thine Eyes, is described as an "inspirational record" or her "latest spiritual release," created before the pandemic. The music served to encourage Niki through personal struggles, including moving to Georgia and facing intrusive questions about her "people" at the bank, her mother's illness, her daughter's diagnosis, and losing her house after returning from a trip to Russia. The album's title references the Bible verse, "I will lift my eyes to the hills from which cometh my help and my help cometh from the Lord".
• Track Spotlights:
  • "Optimistic" (first track on the album) is Niki's arrangement, featuring Eric Marienthal (who is the music director for all Jazz Cruises) as the musical director and Trey Mclofflin. The song encouraged her to "keep your head to the sky".
  • "It is Well with My Soul" is an arrangement by Mitch Foreman on piano. Niki shares the tragic history of the 1813 song, written by a man who lost his five daughters and home in the Chicago fires.
  • "Time After Time" is a cover of the Cyndi Lauper song, chosen because a friend, Cindy Looper, used Niki's music as an opener for her tour. The song's lyrics spoke to Niki's feeling of being alone until a couple (her daughter's pediatrician's parents) stepped in to offer support, reminding her that "the universe is conspiring for your good". Eric Marienthal also played on this track.
  • "I Got Lost" is an Irving Berlin song that Niki found spiritual. It features Mitchell Foreman on piano, whom Lee Mergner notes played in Wayne Shorter's electric band.
  • "Just Keep Going On" is a song written by Eric Bib (the blues guy), which has a slight southern influence as Niki had moved to Augusta, Georgia.
  • The final song played was the Blind Faith song (sung by Steve Winwood and featuring Eric Clapton on guitar) "Can't Find a Way to Live" (referred to as "Blind Faith song," or "In the presence" or "Find a new way to live").
• Family Background: Niki’s father was the great jazz pianist Gene Harris.
• Grandmother's Influence: Niki's paternal grandmother was adopted by a Jewish family in Chicago after her Native American and African-American mother passed away in a brothel in Pinebluff, Arkansas, around 1913. Her grandmother told Niki, "Everybody's my cousin," which is how Niki walks through life.
• Music Career and Housing: Niki worked with pop artists for nearly 20 years, including Madonna. She has a song opening for Cyndi Lauper's final tour, and she performs dance music and other genres, in addition to jazz and gospel. Niki still maintains a home in St. Joseph Benton Harbor, Michigan (where Al Capone used to vacation) and rents out property to golfers in Michigan (near a golf course built by Jack Nicklaus) and in Augusta, Georgia, which she calls "mailbox money"

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• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

Show Notes: 105: John Clayton & Jeff Hamilton with Marcus Miller

This episode of Jazz Cruises Conversations, recorded live on the Journey of Jazz '25 cruise, features an interview conducted by co-host Marcus Miller with John Clayton (bassist/arranger) and Jeff Hamilton (drummer), the longtime co-leaders of the Clayton-Hamilton Jazz Orchestra (CHJO). The conversation focused on the formation and 40-year history of their Grammy Award-winning big band, which performed on the cruise and also backed Diana Krall.

• Formation and Longevity: Clayton and Hamilton first discussed starting a big band in 1972 while in college at Indiana University, but officially began the orchestra in 1985. Keeping the band together for 40 years involved delegating tasks: John was responsible for writing the charts and arranging, while Jeff managed the finances and knew which musicians in Los Angeles to call and who would "get along together and played great".
• Musician Selection and Personality: The CHJO intentionally seeks out musicians who bring personality and "gravy" to their playing, rejecting the "clean studio precision" typical of many Los Angeles "reading bands" and "rehearsal bands". John Clayton's arrangements are often written specifically for the personalities of the musicians, much like Duke Ellington did.
• Integration and Inclusivity: The co-leaders were determined to have a "rainbow colored band" and were both vocal about wanting an integrated band, contrasting with the predominantly white or all-white bands historically prevalent in jazz. They continue to be open to musicians regardless of sex or definition, provided they maintain the band’s quality. 
• Working with Vocalists: The band has successfully collaborated with singers such as Joe Williams, Dee Dee Bridgewater, Cécile McLorin Salvant, Barbara Morrison, and Ernie Andrews. When arranging for a vocalist like Diana Krall, John Clayton writes for the individual person.
• Program Selection: The CHJO prioritizes playing music that makes the band happy, rather than catering to audience requests.
• Big Band Challenges: The challenges for big bands have changed over the decades. Unlike the past where touring was common via bus, big bands now rely on opportunities like music series in concert halls across the US and may fly to do single concerts.
• Drummer's Role: Jeff Hamilton (the drummer) adheres to the philosophy of Mel Lewis that a musician should not change their style for the group but rather "serve the music" and invite others into their beat. John Clayton praised Jeff's ability to achieve a sound that is "not loud but it's full," allowing the music to reach all parts of the bandstand without monitors.
• Arranging Style: To keep his compositions contemporary and avoid being in a "rut," John Clayton actively seeks out different resources to expand his writing vocabulary, colors, and ideas. The CHJO's arrangements include John's unique sound, or "gravy," often written with specific musicians in mind, like Mel Lewis's loose relaxation or Oscar Brashear's personality.
• Mentorship and Education: Both Clayton and Hamilton actively teach and share their knowledge. John Clayton received guidance from Ray Brown when he was 16, who instilled the responsibility of "passing it on" to others. Jeff Hamilton noted that they had a CHJO youth orchestra for about three years in Los Angeles and have mentored many successful musicians, including Diana Krall, Sullivan Fortner and Benny Benack III, who were also on the cruise.

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• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

This episode captures a coffee talk session from the recent Journey of Jazz Cruise, where host Lee Mergner interviews the great pianist Sullivan Fortner ("Sully"). Since Fortner does not enjoy talking about himself, the interview uses prompts featuring names of influential people in his life. Fortner, an adept mimic and great storyteller, shared profound lessons from his mentors and even played the piano for the audience in the mode of Oscar Peterson.

Key Takeaways

• Musical Beginnings: Fortner's mother was his first music teacher. He and his two younger sisters were "weaned on gospel music" and learned ear training by singing in three-part harmony. His father, who played trumpet in high school, taught him about responsibility.
• A Stern Mentor: Fortner attended the New Orleans Center for Creative Arts (NOCCA). During a lesson with Ellis Marsalis, after playing "Lush Life" and making a mistake, Marsalis retrieved the sheet music, threw the chart in his face, and asked, "Any questions," ending the lesson.
• The Oberlin Shift: Fortner studied at Oberlin Conservatory of Music in Ohio. He describes the food as a "culture shock" but the experience as the best thing he could have done, as he "wasn't ready for place like New York". He had to "pretty much relearn how to play the piano" in Ohio. His teacher, Dan Wall, was his "musical father".
• Learning from Masters:
  • Jason Moran instructed him to focus on stride, boogie woogie, rag time, and solo piano, rather than the more common influences of Herbie Hancock or Keith Jarrett.
  • Barry Harris's workshop, which he attended every Tuesday, was held in the Baroness Pannonica's old house. Fortner recounts the story of receiving his first and only 30-minute lesson from Harris after playing a Thelonious Monk tune on Thelonious Monk's piano (which Harris refused to touch).
• Seven Years with Roy Hargrove: Fortner spent seven years in Roy Hargrove's band, describing the experience as a "doctor's diploma and road chops". He witnessed Hargrove's dedication despite intense physical struggles, including an incident in Italy where a "geyser of blood" shot out of Hargrove's arm during a gig, yet Roy continued to play.
• Vocal Collaborations: He met Samara Joy as a scared freshman at Barry Harris's class and contributed to her Grammy-winning holiday album. He has played with Cécile McLorin Salvant for 10 years. Salvant's repertoire is wide, including music from 500 BC and songs sung in five languages. He described Dee Dee Bridgewater as "fearless" and a "triple quadruple threat".
• The Oscar Peterson Challenge: Fortner participated in a tour playing Oscar Peterson's music with John Clayton and Jeff Hamilton, noting that Oscar's playing was "demanding," "relentless," and "very complicated and complex".
• Awards and Albums: Fortner's albums include the Grammy-nominated Solo Game (the one with the upside-down cover) and Southern Nights. He recently received the inaugural Larry J. Bell Jazz Artist Award ($300,000 over four years).

Host and Guest Information

Guest | Sullivan Fortner | Pianist, Grammy-nominated artist, recent recipient of the Larry J. Bell Jazz Artist Award. Named Peter Martin (founder of Open Studio) as his first piano teacher.
Interviewer/Host | Lee Mergner | Host of Jazz Cruises Conversations.
Collaborators Mentioned | Roy Hargrove | Fortner spent seven years in his band.
| Cécile McLorin Salvant | Fortner has worked with her for 10 years.
| Dee Dee Bridgewater

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• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

This week's episode, recorded during the Journey of Jazz Cruise on the West Coast, features Dee Dee Bridgewater in conversation with co-host Marcus Miller, sharing stories from her remarkable five-decade career. The interview explores her journey from setting big goals at age seven to her life in Paris, discussing how she overcame adversity and developed the tools to succeed both artistically and professionally.

Key Takeaways

• Early Ambitions & Idols: Dee Dee decided at the age of seven that she would be an internationally known jazz singer, well-respected by musicians, and would live in Paris, France—all of which came true. Her greatest idol was Nancy Wilson, whom she admired for her voice, style, and class, along with Lena Horn and Diahann Carroll.
• The Importance of Storytelling: Dee Dee transitioned from focusing primarily on musical notes and melody to telling the story of a song. This shift was heavily influenced by her time in the Broadway production of The Wiz and working with its director, her second husband, Gilbert Moses.
• Life in France: Dee Dee lived in Europe for 24 years. Her celebrity status in France was jump-started when a poster of her from the musical Sophisticated Ladies was used throughout Paris. She found great success, including filling 3,000-4,000 seat theaters after a successful duet with Ray Charles.
• Josephine Baker Connection: Dee Dee served as the honorary president of the Josephine Baker Association. Her great aunt, Lahi G. (Ladi G E), was responsible for bringing Josephine Baker to Paris and is referenced in Baker's biographies.
• China Moses's Start: When Dee Dee was offered a rock album deal with Virgin Records, she declined it and instead convinced the label to sign her daughter, China Moses, who was 16 at the time. Dee Dee acted as a "tough mama," refusing to critique China's style, ensuring China's success stemmed solely from her own efforts.
• The Thad Jones School: Dee Dee's musical education primarily came from the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra, which she joined before John Fattis. Thad Jones gave her the nickname "Renion" and taught her to learn by ear, often changing arrangements mid-song ("We're going back to letter C").
• The Woodshed Network: Dee Dee founded the Woodshed Network in 2019 for young women in jazz to create a safe space and provide them with essential business tools for successful careers. The idea originated after she observed issues while on the faculty of the Betty Carter Jazz Ahead program.

Host and Guest Information

RoleNameDetails from Source
Guest | Dee Dee Bridgewater | Charismatic and expressive jazz singer, career spanning five decades. Discusses her album Just Family (produced by Stanley Clark) which features the song "Maybe Today". Winner of a Tony Award for The Wiz.
Interviewer/Host | Marcus Miller | Co-host of the Journey of Jazz Cruise. Provided the theme music: "High Life" from the album Aphrodesia on Blue Note.
Host | Lee Mergner | Host of Jazz Cruises Conversations podcast.

Send us Fan Mail

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

A Revealing Give-and-Take Between Friends Recorded live during the inaugural Journey of Jazz cruise, this episode features a unique "double interview" between longtime friends and colleagues Alonzo Bodden and Marcus Miller, with Alonzo asking Marcus about music and Marcus asking Alonzo about comedy.. From the hilarious pitfalls of bombing on stage to the technical reasons why bass players make the best conductors, nothing is off-limits in this wide-ranging conversation introduced by Music Director Eric Marienthal.

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Key Takeaways

• The "Jazz" of Comedy: Comedian Alonzo Bodden explains that "crowd work"—improvising based on audience interaction—is essentially jazz because it requires creating and reacting in the moment.

• Rehearsal vs. "Working it Out": While musicians can rehearse in a studio, comics must practice in front of a live audience to know if a joke works, a process they call "working it out".

• Song Evolution: Marcus Miller describes a studio recording as the "baby" version of a song, while the live performance after a year of touring becomes the "adult" version.

• The Cruelty of Comics: Bodden reveals a "cruel" aspect of the comedy fraternity: there is nothing more fun for a comic than watching a fellow friend "bomb" or "die a slow death" on stage.

• Legendary Bailouts: The duo discusses legendary moments of stage mastery, such as Bill Burr attacking a hostile Philly crowd and Bernie Mac’s fearless 1990s Def Jam set where he famously declared, "I ain't scared of you".

• Bassist as Conductor: Marcus explains that bass players make natural music directors because their role requires them to keep their "heads up," connecting rhythm to harmony while listening to the entire sound of the ensemble.

• The Joe Sample Incident: Miller and Bodden reminisce about a famous "unfiltered" moment on a cruise where the late Joe Sample cussed out his band and the audience for singing "Street Lights" instead of his hit "Street Life".

• Musical Lineage: Marcus reflects on his responsibility to pass down stories of legends like Miles Davis and Dizzy Gillespie to younger musicians who never had the chance to meet them.

• Electric vs. Upright: Miller explains why he primarily expresses himself through the electric bass, noting that while the acoustic bass is beautiful, he came up during the "glory era" of the bass guitar in the 1970s

Send us Fan Mail

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

A Masterclass in Church Roots and Jazz Virtuosity Recorded live during The Jazz Cruise, this episode features a soulful and humorous interview between eight-time Grammy-winning bassist Christian McBride and his friend and protégé, guitarist Dan Wilson. Originally taped for McBride’s SiriusXM show, The Lowdown: Conversations with Christian, the two discuss Wilson’s unique musical upbringing and his refusal to leave his home in Akron, Ohio, for the bright lights of New York City. In keeping with the format of Christian’s show, the two also play some improvised music together.

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Key Takeaways

• The Pride of Akron: Despite the common belief that jazz musicians must move to New York, Wilson has remained in Akron, Ohio, developing a world-class sound within the competitive "church guitar" culture of the Midwest.

• Church as a Training Ground: Wilson recalls getting his "behind kicked" during services three days a week by older guitarists who blended the styles of Wes Montgomery, Joe Pass, and George Benson.

• Breaking Sacred Boundaries: Dan shares how he would get in trouble for playing jazz-influenced lines in a traditional church setting, even though the congregation would "shout" along to his playing.

• The Historian’s Ear: The duo discusses the often-forgotten history of the song "Breezin’," noting that it was written by Bobby Womack, not George Benson.

• Blues Influences: Wilson highlights T-Bone Walker and Howlin' Wolf as major influences, noting that Howlin' Wolf’s personal history as a sharecropper in Alabama mirrored his own great-grandfather’s life.

• The "Blindfold Test": In a signature segment, Wilson correctly identifies the playing of Pat Martino, Russell Malone, and Derek Trucks, while discussing his 20-year friendship with the late Malone.

• Cinematic Connection: McBride and Wilson demonstrate their deep personal bond through a shared obsession with the 1989 film Lean on Me and the specific nuances of James Brown records.

Send us Fan Mail

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

A Centennial Celebration of Jazz Stories In this milestone 100th episode of Jazz Cruises Conversations, recorded live on The Jazz Cruise '25, legendary guitarist and vocalist John Pizzarelli sits down with his longtime friend and collaborator, vocalist Catherine Russell. For the last few years, John and Catherine have been performing together in a project they call 'Billie and Blue Eyes,' spotlighting the music of Billie Holiday and Frank Sinatra. John talked about coming up in the jazz and music world and hanging (and playing) with legends like Benny Goodman, Les Paul, Joe Venuti, Zoot Sims, Slam Stewart, Clark Terry, George Shearing, and of course, his father Bucky. Plus, John shared some stories about working with pop icons James Taylor and Paul McCartney.

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Key Takeaways

• The Family Business: John began his musical journey on the tenor banjo at age six before switching to the guitar at 12. He grew up in a house so full of music that if you wanted to sit on the couch, you had to move a guitar first.

• Trumpet Troubles: Before committing to the guitar, John played trumpet from fourth grade through his sophomore year of college. He admits "trumpet is hard," but his classical training on the instrument gave him an immediate "in" when he first met Wynton Marsalis.

• Pranks with Les Paul: Living only 15 minutes away from the Pizzarelli home, Les Paul was a frequent visitor who enjoyed playing tricks, such as de-tuning John’s guitar or pulling out his patch cord in the middle of a performance.

• The "Highlights in Jazz" Fistfight: John recounts his first New York City gig with his father, Bucky Pizzarelli, which featured Zoot Sims as a surprise guest. While the musicians were focused on learning "Ghost of a Chance" backstage, the promoter and a friend of Bucky’s broke into an actual fistfight—one that no one stopped because they were too busy rehearsing.

• Pop Collaborations: John shares the "pajama-intimate" details of co-producing James Taylor’s Grammy-winning standards album in a barn studio and recording "Paper Moon" with Paul McCartney at Capitol Records.

• The "Eyebrow" Method: John reveals the secret musical shorthand he shared with his father during their 12 years of performing as a duo: as soon as Bucky’s eyebrows went up, it was John's signal to take the solo

Send us Fan Mail

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

This conversation was recorded during The Jazz Cruise '24 and features an interview with world-renowned multi-instrumentalist James Morrison by Music Director Eric Marienthal. In this episode, Morrison discusses his unique approach to musicianship, the mental "switch" required to play multiple instruments at a high level, and his parallel lives as a professional race car driver and an airplane pilot who flies his own band to their gigs.

Key Takeaways

• The "Play, Don't Practice" Philosophy: Morrison argues that traditional "practicing" can lead to a mindset of "getting ready" rather than "doing". He advocates for a mental paradigm where intention causes manifestation, noting that once a musician has successfully played a note, they should never doubt their ability to do so again.

• Multi-Instrumental Mastery: James explains the difficulty of playing trumpet and piano simultaneously in two different keys; he succeeds by turning off the analytical part of his brain and focusing purely on the sound. He also reveals that the hardest part of playing trumpet and trombone together is the inability to move the trombone slide, requiring him to hit every pitch using only his lips.

• The 2000 Sydney Olympics Fanfare: Morrison composed and performed the opening fanfare for the Sydney Olympics, a feat that required him to circular breathe while holding a double high G for a massive global audience.

• Solo Big Band Project: James shares the story of a recording project where he played every instrument in a 17-piece big band (except for the drums, which were added later by Jeff Hamilton).

• Life in the Fast Lane: Beyond music, James has been a professional driver for Toyota in the World Rally Championship, a host of Top Gear Australia, and is a licensed pilot who regularly flies his band to tour dates.

• Innovation in Brass: A deep dive into the design of Morrison's custom E-flat flugelhorn, which uses rotary valves to produce a rich, haunting sound that mimics a French horn in its upper register.

Send us Fan Mail

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

This conversation with saxophonist Mindi Abair, hosted by Talaya of "Watercolors" on SiriusXM, was recorded on the second week of The Smooth Jazz Cruise earlier this year.  The two talked about Mindi's storied career and her interests off the bandstand.

Send us Fan Mail

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

In this conversation recorded during Botti at Sea '24, as part of the Jazz on Film series hosted by Lee Mergner, we showed a bit of Miles Davis: Birth of the Cool, Stanley Nelson's 2019 documentary about the great trumpeter.  To talk about Miles' life and legacy, we asked another great trumpeter, Randy Brecker, who has always been a marvelous story teller.  Perhaps no other artist lends themself more to stories than Miles Davis.  Randy not only put Miles' singular influence in perspective, but shared some of his personal encounters with Miles, including their exchange about who discovered the wah wah peddle first. 

Send us Fan Mail

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.