In this episode, Mark revisits a 2007 conversation with James P. (Jim) Womack, founder of the Lean Enterprise Institute and co-author of The Machine That Changed the World. Nearly two decades later, Jim’s reflections on the origins of the word “Lean” remain just as relevant.

The blog post

The discussion takes us back to MIT in 1987, when Womack and his colleagues were analyzing data from auto plants around the world. Toyota and Honda were clearly operating in a fundamentally different way—faster design cycles, fewer errors, less capital, less space, and more value. But they needed a name for this system. That’s when researcher John Krafcik suggested a term that captured the essence of “less”: Lean.

Womack reflects on how the word solved one problem—it shifted attention away from “Japanese manufacturing” or “the Toyota Production System” to something more universal. But the name also created challenges: because Lean rhymes with “mean,” too many managers misused it as shorthand for cutting jobs rather than creating more value while respecting people.

Mark reads Womack’s timeless warnings and lessons: Lean was never about headcount reduction; it was always about eliminating waste, improving flow, and engaging people in problem-solving. And while the term has traveled in many directions since that 1987 “naming moment,” its underlying principles—value for customers, respect for people, and continuous improvement—remain as important in 2025 as ever.

Listen in to hear Jim’s words from that original 2007 interview, plus Mark’s reflections on why this conversation still matters today.