The hit new book Regime Change offers staggering insights into Donald Trump's second presidency, revealed by New York Times journalists Jonathan Swan and Maggie Haberman. Plus, historian Nicholas Guyatt exposes the paradox of founding father and early US president Thomas Jefferson -  who opposed slavery politically, yet enslaved more than 600 people. A new book explores his vision of abolition — and racial exclusion.

Guests:

• Jonathan Swan, journalist with New York Times and co-author, Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump
• Nicholas Guyatt, Professor of North American History, Cambridge University