Professor, author, and podcast host Kate Bowler joins Sam to talk about her new book Joyful Anyway, and what the difference between joy and happiness really is. They talk about why happiness is circumstantial but joy is big and bright and hits your reward system. They talk about the Prosperity Gospel, Christian amusement parks, and what on earth the Pope must be feeling right now. They talk about taking wisdom from Taylor Swift, an aversion to gardening, and the need to sometimes take a walk around the block for a quick cry.

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