You know that phrase “born on the wrong side of the tracks”? Well, there’s something to it: highways, roads, and sidewalks across America have, for decades now, been racial and economic dividers. And these thoroughfares don’t just reflect inequality—they continue to play an active role in it.

This week, W. Kamau Bell is joined by Deborah N. Archer and Sister Helen Jones for a conversation about transportation infrastructure in the United States, and what a safer, more equitable system could look like.

Deborah N. Archer is President of the ACLU, and a tenured professor and associate dean at New York University School of Law. She’s also the author of the new book Dividing Lines: How Transportation Infrastructure Reinforces Racial Inequality.

Sister Helen Jones is a community organizer and activist in the Watts neighborhood of Southern California.

At Liberty is a production of the ACLU, and hosted by W. Kamau Bell.

This episode was executive produced by Jessica Herman Weitz and Gwen Schroeder for the ACLU, and W. Kamau Bell, Kelly Rafferty, PhD, and Melissa Hudson Bell, PhD for Who Knows Best Productions. It was recorded at Skyline Studios in Oakland, CA.

At Liberty is edited and produced by Erica Getto and Myrriah Gossett for Good Get.