Into America

Le Petit Problème Noir


Listen Later

In the 1920s, Josephine Baker escaped the violent racism of in the United States to seek refuge in Paris, like so many other Black American creatives have done over time. Baker found that France welcomed her, and the freedom she found there helped her become an international sensation in dancing, singing, and acting. 

Baker eventually became not only a French citizen but a decorated hero in the French Resistance during World War II. She also continued to speak out against racism in her home country, and was the only woman on the official speakers list at the 1963 March on Washington. 

All of this helped Baker become the first Black woman, first American, and first entertainer inducted into the Panthéon in Paris, one of the greatest honors bestowed in France. On this episode of Into America, host Trymaine Lee talks about the significance of this honor with Ricki Stevenson, a Black American whose own move to Paris in the 1990s was inspired by Baker, and who has been fighting for more recognition for Baker here in the States. 

During the induction ceremony last month, French President Emmanuel Macron called Baker “ever fair, ever fraternal, ever fraternal, and ever French,” and held her up as a shining example of French universalism: “Being Black didn’t take precedence over being American or French. She was not fighting in the name of a Black cause, no she was fighting to be a free citizen, one who lived in dignity and completely free.”

But France’s relationship with race is much more complicated than that. Rokhaya Diallo, a French journalist, author, and activist, tells Into America that Macron’s words dilute Baker’s own contributions to civil rights, and also obscure the racism that Black French people like her experience on a daily basis. 

For a transcript, please visit https://www.msnbc.com/intoamerica

Thoughts? Feedback? Story ideas? Write to us at [email protected].

Further Listening: 

  • Into America: Harlem on My Mind
  • Into America: Haiti’s Unforgiveable Blackness

EDITOR’S NOTE: After this episode published, we did hear back from a representative of the French Embassy in Washington, DC. Visit our website to read a summary of their statement. 

To listen to this show and other MS podcasts without ads, sign up for MS NOW Premium on Apple Podcasts.


Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

...more
View all episodesView all episodes
Download on the App Store

Into AmericaBy Trymaine Lee, MS NOW

  • 4.6
  • 4.6
  • 4.6
  • 4.6
  • 4.6

4.6

3,350 ratings


More shows like Into America

View all
The Rachel Maddow Show by Rachel Maddow, MS NOW

The Rachel Maddow Show

37,247 Listeners

Morning Joe by Joe Scarborough, Mika Brzezinski, MS NOW, Willie Geist

Morning Joe

8,794 Listeners

The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell by Lawrence O'Donnell, MS NOW

The Last Word with Lawrence O’Donnell

7,350 Listeners

All In with Chris Hayes by MS NOW, Chris Hayes

All In with Chris Hayes

5,867 Listeners

The 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhle by MS NOW, Stephanie Ruhle

The 11th Hour with Stephanie Ruhle

3,934 Listeners

The Beat with Ari Melber by Ari Melber, MS NOW

The Beat with Ari Melber

4,471 Listeners

Deadline: White House by Nicolle Wallace, MS NOW

Deadline: White House

6,988 Listeners

Why Is This Happening? The Chris Hayes Podcast by MS NOW, Chris Hayes

Why Is This Happening? The Chris Hayes Podcast

9,475 Listeners

Way Too Early with Ali Vitali by MS NOW, Ali Vitali

Way Too Early with Ali Vitali

628 Listeners

Bag Man by Rachel Maddow, MS NOW

Bag Man

27,721 Listeners

The Oath with Chuck Rosenberg by MS NOW, Chuck Rosenberg

The Oath with Chuck Rosenberg

15,600 Listeners

The Al Franken Podcast by The Al Franken Podcast

The Al Franken Podcast

8,562 Listeners

Strict Scrutiny by Strict Scrutiny

Strict Scrutiny

5,832 Listeners

So You Wanna Be President? with Chris Matthews by MS NOW

So You Wanna Be President? with Chris Matthews

834 Listeners

#SistersInLaw by Politicon

#SistersInLaw

10,475 Listeners

Velshi by MS NOW, Ali Velshi

Velshi

965 Listeners

American Radical by MS NOW, Ayman Mohyeldin

American Radical

4,357 Listeners

Trumpland with Alex Wagner by MS NOW, Alex Wagner

Trumpland with Alex Wagner

1,429 Listeners

Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra by Rachel Maddow, MS NOW

Rachel Maddow Presents: Ultra

31,821 Listeners

The Revolution with Steve Kornacki by Steve Kornacki, MS NOW

The Revolution with Steve Kornacki

2,159 Listeners

Main Justice by MS NOW, Andrew Weissmann, Mary McCord

Main Justice

7,014 Listeners

Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News by MS NOW, Rachel Maddow, Isaac-Davy Aronson

Rachel Maddow Presents: Déjà News

6,288 Listeners

The Briefing with Jen Psaki by MS NOW, Jen Psaki

The Briefing with Jen Psaki

1,460 Listeners

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams by Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams

Assembly Required with Stacey Abrams

1,768 Listeners

PoliticsNation by Rev. Al Sharpton, MS NOW

PoliticsNation

54 Listeners

The Weeknight by MS NOW, Alicia Menendez, Michael Steele, Symone Sanders Townsend

The Weeknight

203 Listeners

The Weekend Primetime by MS NOW, Ayman Mohyeldin, Elise Jordan, Antonia Hylton, Catherine Rampell

The Weekend Primetime

65 Listeners

The Best People with Nicolle Wallace by MS NOW, Nicolle Wallace

The Best People with Nicolle Wallace

4,433 Listeners