Right People. Right Message. Right Time. Every Time.

We explore why so many arts campaigns feel fragmented, and how smarter segmentation can fix it. From overlapping messages to audience fatigue, misaligned marketing and development teams are often the root of the problem. But when arts leaders take ownership of segmentation as a strategic discipline, campaigns become clearer, more effective, and easier to manage across departments.

We unpack the real cost of siloed planning, the difference between data and action, and the shift required to move from seasonal pushes to sustained patron cultivation. With practical examples and sector-specific insight, this episode is a call to rethink how campaigns are planned, how audiences are segmented, and who’s really responsible for making it all work.

Key takeaways you can act on:

• Why segmentation is a leadership discipline; not just a data task
• How shared segmentation creates clarity and avoids duplicated asks
• The key patron segments every arts organization should define and use
• How collaboration between marketing and development teams strengthens campaign timing and messaging
• What smarter campaign planning looks like when driven by patron behavior
• Simple first steps to improve segmentation and align your teams

For more insights, past episodes, and to sign up for our newsletter, visit trgarts.com/leadingtheway 

Contact Info:  
Email [email protected] 

Three out of four first-time attendees never return. Not because the art isn’t strong, but because the follow-up isn’t built for loyalty. Most arts & cultural organizations are investing in acquisition, but losing the retention game where it matters most: right after the first visit.

In this episode, we explore why timing trumps intention, where most post-show strategies fall short, and how small shifts in behavior can drive long-term impact. If you're ready to increase the number of your first-time attendees that come back, this is the conversation to start with.

Key takeaways you can act on:

• Why the “second date” is the most important moment in retention strategy
• How recency shapes return behavior
• Common mistakes organizations make in post-show follow-up
• The difference between audience experience vs. organizational workflow
• Simple, actionable tactics to turn first-time visitors into repeat attendees 

For more insights, past episodes, and to sign up for our newsletter, visit trgarts.com/leadingtheway 

Contact Info:  

Email [email protected] 

In this episode of Leading the Way, Jill S. Robinson talks with Seth Godin about strategic leadership in the arts. Together, they explore how cultural leaders can bridge immediate operational demands with long-term vision, embracing adaptability, empathy, and purpose to create meaningful, audience-centered institutions that thrive beyond today's challenges. 

Drawing on insights from Seth’s lates book This Is Strategy: Make Better Plans the conversation touches on the urgent need for leaders to step out of reactive cycles and into proactive, strategic modes of thinking. They discuss how to define success beyond sellouts, build deeper audience loyalty, and lead with intention; not just passion. 

For more insights, past episodes, and to sign up for our newsletter, visit trgarts.com/leadingtheway 

Contact Info:  

Email [email protected] 

In this bonus episode of "Leading the Way" with Jill S. Robinson, the spotlight is on Ariel Fristoe, the Artistic Director of Out of Hand Theater, an Atlanta-based theater company renowned for its innovative integration of art, social justice, and civic engagement. The conversation delves into the origins, evolution, and significant impact of Out of Hand Theater since its inception in 2001. Ariel Fristoe shares insights into how the company has distinguished itself by focusing on social issues and working closely with community groups and experts, leading to a unique business model that monetizes artistic skills while addressing pressing societal challenges like racism, poverty, and violence. 

Significant milestones include the theater's recognition by the New York Times as the best theater of 2020 and the notable growth following this acclaim. Fristoe emphasizes the importance of collaborative programs with various organizations, detailing the expansion of their team and the ambitious vision driving their work. She provides advice to other performing arts organizations on achieving authenticity and broad community engagement by prioritizing partners' goals and focusing on local issues, which can unlock new audiences and sustainability for the arts. 

For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com. 

Key Topics & Chapter Markers:     

• Introduction (00:00:04.010): Jill S. Robinson introduces Ariel Fristoe and talks about the achievements of Out of Hand Theater. 
• Founding of Out of Hand Theater (00:01:11.640 - 00:02:58.250): Ariel Fristoe shares how the theater was started in 2001 with a focus on social issues. 
• Business Model Changes (00:04:24.850 - 00:06:21.050): Ariel discusses how the theater evolved, especially in monetizing their work and focusing on combating racism, poverty, and violence. 
• Educational Impact (00:07:21.790 - 00:10:19.180): The impact on schools and communities through theater programs is highlighted. 
• Growth from Recognition (00:12:14.270 - 00:14:33.510): Ariel talks about the growth following recognition by the New York Times and others in 2020. 
• Collaborative Programs (00:15:08.450 - 00:15:35.390): All programs involve collaboration with various organizations, Ariel emphasizes. 
• Team Expansion (00:16:03.010 - 00:19:07.550): Details on how the team has grown since 2018, including their roles and the ambition driving them. 
• Team Satisfaction (00:20:40.590 - 00:21:11.260): Ariel reflects on the satisfaction with her team's work and their passion. 
• Future Goals (00:22:24.750 - End): Ariel discusses her vision for Out of Hand Theater to become national leaders in arts and community collaboration. 
• Advice to Arts Organizations (00:23:33.230 - 00:26:43.000): Ariel advises arts leaders on prioritizing partners' goals to gain authenticity and broader engagement. 
• Challenges in Theater (00:26:43.000 - 00:29:26.390): Ariel talks about the challenges in theater, especially around racial and equity issues, and suggests focusing on local issues to engage audiences. 
• Closing Thoughts (00:29:26.390 - 00:30:27.590): Jill thanks Ariel for the insightful discussion, highlighting the potential of art to improve communities 

Contact Info:    

[email protected]  

In this bonus episode of "Leading the Way" with Jill S. Robinson speaks with Marna Seltzer and Dasha Koltunyuk from Princeton University Concerts. Explore how they're reshaping the classical music landscape through groundbreaking initiatives designed to connect deeply with audiences in a post-pandemic world. From the serene blend of music with meditation to the powerful Healing with Music series, discover how they're pioneering new pathways to engage, inspire, and heal. 

This episode isn't just about music; it's about community, innovation, and the relentless pursuit of relevance in a rapidly changing world. Learn about their strategies for audience growth, the embrace of social media to capture unique concert experiences, and the vision for the future of classical music. With insights on building trust and community, adapting to digital advancements, and maintaining core values, this conversation is a beacon for anyone looking to make a lasting impact in the arts. 

For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com.     

Key Topics & Chapter Markers:     

1. Podcast Introduction [00:00:01.930]: Introduction to the podcast, guests Marna Seltzer and Dasha Koltunyuk, and their work at Princeton University Concerts. 
2. Adapting to Change [00:01:35.670]: How Princeton University Concerts is evolving with new approaches to arts and culture. 
3. Pandemic Impact [00:02:01.690]: The significant effects of the pandemic on the arts and the necessity for new planning and thinking. 
4. Music's Importance [00:04:45.050]: Discussion on the enhanced appreciation of music during the pandemic. 
5. Innovative Programs [00:06:39.620]: Introduction of new programming, including music with meditation and the Healing with Music series. 
6. Audience Growth [00:07:04.230]: The increase in events, subscribers, and efforts to engage a broader audience. 
7. Healing Series [00:09:42.410]: Details on the Healing with Music series and its goals. 
8. Audience Diversity [00:12:45.600]: The variety in audience demographics and how different programs attract different groups. 
9. Community Building [00:15:23.670]: Reflections on the importance of building trust and community before and after the pandemic. 
10. New Initiatives [00:18:53.550]: Introduction of unique initiatives like pre-concert speed dating to foster community. 
11. Intergenerational Values [00:21:38.510]: Discussion on shared values across different generations within the team. 
12. Post-Pandemic Adaptation [00:23:11.150]: Adapting to the post-pandemic world with new perspectives and digital savviness. 
13. Social Media Engagement [00:24:48.420]: How social media initiatives like "sound bites" have enhanced audience engagement. 
14. Future Vision for 2040 [00:27:08.150]: Dasha Koltunyuk's outlook on the future of classical music and its universal appeal. 
15. Classical Music Resilience [00:28:53.440]: Marna Seltzer reflects on the longevity and future challenges of classical music. 
16. Demographic Changes [00:32:37.810]: Discussion on how future demographic and community changes might influence classical music engagement. 
17. Building Community Values [00:34:21.730]: The podcast concludes with thoughts on shared creativity values and lessons from Princeton University Concerts' experiments in community engagement. 

Contact Info:    

[email protected]

Jill S. Robinson closes out season 1 of Leading the Way with a retrospective considering the patterns and through lines of her conversations this year. Innovators or disruptors all, the guests of Leading the Way point to not only the key pillars of TRG Arts, but also the direction of necessary attention for arts and cultural leaders heading into 2024 and longer, 2040 and beyond. 

For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com.  

Key Topics & Chapter Markers:  

Introduction to the Final Episode (00:00:00.330): Jill S. Robinson introduces the final episode of the "Leading the Way" podcast, reflecting on the leadership thoughts and examples discussed since late 2023, focusing on the sector's recovery and resiliency. 

First Pillar - Financial Stability (00:00:00.330): Conversation with Vincent Van Vliet (Phoenix Theater) and Jill Anderson (Syracuse Stage) about financial stability in the arts sector, highlighting positive growth during the pandemic. 

Second Pillar - Customer Relationships (00:01:49.600): Discussions on customer relationships with Tom Bird (Sheffield Theaters) and Ross Benny (Cleveland Orchestra), focusing on relevance, future audiences, and innovative membership programs. 

Third Pillar - Organizational Frameworks (00:03:31.570): Highlighting the importance of organizational frameworks, with examples from Boston Children’s Chorus's new framework led by Andres Holder and Akiba Abaka. 

Fourth Pillar - People-Centric Teams (00:05:21.330): Discussion with Andrew Taylor on the "overhead myth" and its impact on people-centric teams in the arts and cultural sector. 

Wrap-Up and Broader Conversation (00:06:49.970): A broader conversation with Alicia Lawyer (Roko) about disruption in classical music, touching upon all four key pillars. 

Four Provocations for the Future (00:06:49.970): Jill S. Robinson shares her thoughts and provocations on the current state and future of the arts and cultural sector, focusing on the rigid nonprofit mindset, the need for growth capital, the "Great Shakeup," and setting sights on 2040. 

Conclusion and Thanks (00:17:02.200): Closing remarks, thanking listeners and inviting suggestions for future inspiration. 

Podcast Closing and Invitation to Subscribe (00:17:55.510): Conclusion of the podcast episode, inviting listeners to subscribe and visit the website for more resources. 

Contact Info:  

[email protected]  

In this episode, Jill talks with Alecia Lawyer (artistic director and founder of the chamber orchestra, ROCO). Alecia shares how this Houston-based orchestra disrupts and innovates the traditional presentation of classical music. With a revenue model where 95% comes from contributed revenue, ROCO designs audience-first experiences. Alecia is putting the fun, access, and creative license back into the world of classical music through what she calls wildcatting in the arts.   

For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com.    

Key Topics & Chapter Markers:    

[00:01:32.910] - Introduction and ROCO's acronym change discussion.  

[00:02:21.550] - Alecia Lawyer's background and how she founded ROCO.  

[00:08:03.130] - ROCO's unique approach to classical music.  

[00:09:16.270] - Explanation of "Wildcatting in the Arts" and its importance.  

[00:19:47.350] - The special audience experience and program book features.  

[00:24:33.850] - Integrating personal and professional aspects in ROCO.  

[00:25:04.690] - The role of faith and vulnerability in Alecia Lawyer's journey.  

[00:26:13.720] - Creating a safe space for musicians to take risks and find rewards.  

[00:28:04.330] - Agency, co-creation, and the relationship between composers, musicians, and the audience.  

[00:46:49.400] - Development of the Octava app and its original purpose.  

[00:49:21.650] - Inspiration behind creating the children's book "Nightingale."  

[00:52:08.880] - Leadership journey of ROCO and challenges in maintaining its culture. 

Contact Info:   

[email protected] 

In this episode, Jill talks with Andrew Taylor (program director and associate professor of Arts Management at American University), a leading voice in the North American nonprofit arts sector, to discuss the prevalent issue of the “overhead myth.”  The discussion takes a deep dive into the challenges arts organizations face, the scarcity mindset, and the importance of understanding the values in direct and indirect costs. Andrew also talks about educating future arts leaders about these financial intricacies. 

For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com.

Key Topics & Chapter Markers:  

[00:02:04.970] The Infinite Game  

[00:03:19.190] The Overhead Myth  

[00:06:03.800] Mindset around Scarcity  

[00:11:12.790] Role of Communication in Budgeting  

[00:11:24.520] Starvation Cycle  

[00:14:08.800] Overhead Costs  

[00:16:22.410] Finding a Balance in Overhead  

[00:18:49.140] Shifting Dynamics in Arts  

[00:23:30.520] Artistic Evolution and Challenges  

[00:27:45.250] Venture Capital in Arts  

[00:28:45.690] Philanthropy and Overhead  

[00:32:15.850] Teaching Overhead to the Younger Generation  

[00:34:36.260] Future Leaders in the Arts  

[00:36:00.310] Power Dynamics in Arts Management  

[00:37:49.430] Direct and Indirect Costs   

Contact Info:  

[email protected]

In this episode, the Boston Children's Chorus (BCC) shares its organizational mission, spotlighting the pivotal role of its new Director of Good Trouble. Guests Andrés Holder and Akiba Abaka offer listeners a deep dive into BCC's community engagement, its programming, performance metrics, and visionary educational initiatives. Andrés and Akiba also share their views on the broader concept of "just cause" within the arts sector and the importance of it to the sustainability of BCC.  

For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com.

Key Topics & Chapter Markers: 

00:03 Boston Children's Chorus history. 

00:05 Akiba's role.  

00:07 Concept of "Good Trouble" 

00:12 - Listening Tour.  

00:17 BCC community and services.  

00:20 BCC performance stats.  

00:24 BCC's educational plans. 

00:27 "Just cause" in arts.  

00:35 Organizational sustainability.  

00:42 Arts relevance and financial models.  

00:48 Leadership in the arts. 

00:52 Changing arts focus.  

00:57 Optimism about change.  

01:01 Insights on "Great resignation".  

01:03 Entrepreneurial spirit post-pandemic. 

 
Contact Info:
[email protected] 

Newsletter sign-up: 
For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com. 

Ross Binnie of The Cleveland Orchestra joins Jill to discuss the orchestra's decade-old Center for Future Audiences program. The initiative aims to attract younger audiences to classical music concerts. Binnie discusses their digital platform "Adella" and their mission to shift perceptions of classical music to make it more inclusive. Additionally, he emphasizes the importance of finding new ways to engage and retain audiences across age groups and shares how The Cleveland Orchestra is doing just that.  

For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com.

Contact Info:
[email protected] 

Newsletter sign-up: 
For additional resources and to sign up for the podcast newsletter, we invite you to visit our website at leadingthewaypodcast.com.