Learning While Working Podcast

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Bianca Baumann and Mike Taylor share insights from their latest book, ‘Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro: Strategies to Ignite Learning’, and dive into actionable strategies that L&D professionals can borrow from the world of marketing.

Discover why shifting your mindset from “order taker” to strategic business partner is essential for today’s L&D professionals. We also uncover how to personalise learning at scale, run effective learning campaigns, and apply marketing-inspired strategies to create learning experiences that resonate – and deliver results.

About  Bianca Baumann

Bianca Baumann is a seasoned learning strategist, international speaker, and author who specialises in innovative workforce enablement solutions. With deep expertise across L&D, employee experience, performance management, and future workforce planning, she partners with global organisations to design data-driven, business-aligned strategies. Known for her work with C-suite leaders and high-performing teams, Bianca brings a sharp focus on transforming human capital into a competitive advantage.

About  Mike Taylor

Mike Taylor is a learning consultant on a mission to eliminate boring, ineffective training. With hands-on experience across nearly every role in L&D, he combines practical know-how with a passion for finding smarter, more engaging ways to help people learn. A self-described “recovering bad student,” Mike brings deep empathy for learners and a talent for simplifying complex topics. He helps organisations design impactful, tech-savvy learning experiences that connect with today’s distracted workforce.

Key takeaways:

• Start small and don’t be intimidated: You don’t need a big budget or fancy tools to bring marketing thinking into learning. Simple, actionable steps – even with no-cost tools – make a difference. (And, get others excited to join in!)
• Adopt a learner-centred mindset, not just content creation: Marketing excels at understanding audiences. Use tactics like research-based personas and journey mapping to make learning experiences resonate and drive business outcomes.
• Think in campaigns, not just courses: Like marketers, L&D should use content strategically – spread it across multiple channels, personalise when possible, and align everything to the bigger business workflow.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction
• (00:06:11) Design learning for cognitive understanding
• (00:07:19) From order taker to partner
• (00:11:13) Prioritising actionable sales metrics
• (00:14:39) Marketing funnel concept for learning
• (00:17:43) Reframing persona use in design
• (00:23:25) Evolving learning journeys
• (00:27:25) Personalisation in marketing technology
• (00:29:01) Content organisation for enhanced learning

Links from the podcast:

• Connect with Bianca Baumann on LinkedIn
• Connect with Mike Taylor on LinkedIn
• Train Like A Marketer Website
• Think Like a Marketer, Train Like an L&D Pro – Book

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Dr. Alaina Szlachta, founder of Design by Development Solution, explores measuring success in learning and development. She guides us in thinking like researchers to effectively gather data from stakeholders and align training solutions with business outcomes.

Tune in as she highlights starting with simple, relevant data points and introduces 'Return on Expectations' to evaluate if training meets stakeholder goals. We'll also discuss the challenges of measuring soft skills, the pitfalls of satisfaction metrics, and the importance of understanding the core problems training aims to address.

About  Alaina Szlachta

Dr. Alaina Szlachta creates data-enablement systems for small businesses to show the outcomes and the impact of their learning programs. She is the founder and creator of Measurement Made Easy, a community of practice which uses microlearning, mentorship, and real case studies to create simpler solutions to common measurement and evaluation challenges. 

An academic turned entrepreneur, Alaina Szlachta, PhD, is the founder of By Design Development Solutions, a consulting firm specialising in data enablement. Drawing on her background as a researcher and public health educator, she partners with learning and operations teams to integrate measurement and evaluation systems into their daily practices, providing continuous feedback loops that enhance quality, efficiency, and profitability. 

She generously shares her expertise through writing and speaking engagements, and as the host of Measurement Made Easy, a free community of practice that guides practitioners in refining their impact measurement strategies.

Key takeaways:

• Think like a researcher: Effective measurement starts with forming hypotheses and gathering relevant data. Approach your L&D projects with a research mindset for valuable insights.
• Focus on business Impacts: Align your learning solutions with business goals and measure the impact on those outcomes. Rather than fixating on satisfaction scores, emphasise whether the training achieves its intended goals.
• Start simple: Begin with a single, manageable data point to make the data analysis process approachable. Ask stakeholders about their expectations before and after the training to measure 'Return on Expectations.'

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction.
• (00:02:06) Measurement and Evaluation in L&D
• (00:05:56) Monitor one data point over time for insights.
• (00:08:01) Delegation clarifies priorities and reduces burnout.
• (00:13:18) Start small and utilise existing data creatively.
• (00:14:51) ‘Return on Expectations’: Measuring program investment outcomes.
• (00:20:17) Don't assume learning solves every performance problem.
• (00:21:43) Show value by aligning with business goals.
• (00:27:49) Methodology is essential for academic success, not engaging.
• (00:29:33) Use data to learn and improve strategies.

Links from the podcast:

• Connect with Alaina Szlachta on LinkedIn
• Alaina Szlachta’s Website
• Read Alaina Szlachta book Measurement and Evaluation on a Shoestring

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, we are joined by Dwayne Wood, an associate professor at National University and an expert in instructional design for workplaces. As the landscape of AI, especially generative AI like ChatGPT, rapidly evolves in higher education, Dwayne shares his unique perspective on how this technology is reshaping learning experiences. From the ethical implications to the challenges of maintaining critical thinking and creativity in students, this episode unpacks the complexities and opportunities AI brings into the educational sphere.

About Dwayne Wood

Dwayne Wood, Associate Professor at National University, is a renowned educator and instructional designer. His expertise lies in creating highly effective and engaging pedagogical methods, designing effective and engaging curricula, creating learning materials tailored to diverse audiences, and designing educational experiences for adult learners.

With a distinguished background in military service, Dwayne brings a unique perspective to the world of education, blending discipline and innovation to create transformative learning experiences.

Key takeaways:

• Applying learning to the workplace: Dwayne emphasises the importance of helping students transfer their academic knowledge to real-world work environments. This practical approach is crucial in preparing better citizens and a workforce ready for modern challenges.
• The impact of generative AI on higher education: Generative AI, such as ChatGPT, is revolutionising traditional assessments and learning models. While it can make tasks like writing research papers more efficient, there is concern over whether the cognitive effort required for genuine learning is being diminished. Dwayne discusses the balance universities need to find in leveraging AI tools responsibly.
• Experiential learning and AI literacy: In his own instructional design courses, Dr. Wood uses AI technologies as both instructional tools and as subjects of study. Students engage in project-based learning, reflecting on how AI affects their task completion and overall learning experience. This method fosters transparency and critical discussion about AI’s role in education and the workplace.
• Developing human skills: Despite AI's growing presence, certain skills remain uniquely human. Dwayne highlights critical thinking, creativity, and cultural awareness as irreplaceable by AI. He advocates for educational strategies that emphasise these human aspects, ensuring students are well-rounded and versatile thinkers.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction.
• (00:06:43) Education must enable workplace skill transfer.
• (00:07:46 Teaching AI tools for instructional design experience.
• (00:11:44) Technology confirms biases; critical thinking requires multiple perspectives.
• (00:15:55) Teaching responsible technology use remains challenging.
• (00:19:20) Reframing discussions as experiments for leadership development.
• (00:22:22) AI enhances learning, not replacing human thought.
• (00:24:53) Cultural literacy and creative thinking are essential.

Links from the podcast

• Connect with Dwayne Wood on LinkedIn
• National University Website

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Anamaria Dorgo Anamaria Dorgo, the founder of Handle With Brain, shares her innovative "No Course" approach to learning design. Learn how to create sustainable learning communities, encourage participant-led experiences, and leverage curiosity and adaptability in the learning process.

About Anamaria Dorgo

Anamaria Dorgo is a Learning Experience Designer, Facilitator, and previously the Head of Community at Butter. With degrees in psychology and human resources, she has a lifelong commitment to learning, resulting in her creating engaging learning experiences for a global community. ​​She is the founder of Handle with Brain, an experience design consultancy.

Key takeaways:

• Collaborative Learning: The "No Course" approach is based on peer-to-peer interaction and mutual support, encouraging participants to learn by doing and sharing real-time feedback. Ideal for projects involving new technologies, such as AI.
• Community Building: Start small with passionate peers, prioritise co-creation, and let the community grow organically. Shift from a service provider mindset to a collaborative, participant-led approach for sustainable development.
• Action-Based Learning: hands-on, context-specific projects help participants focus on their personal and professional growth. Bi-weekly sessions with peer coaching and practical workshops ensure continuous progress and learning.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction
• (00:05:08) Experimenting with peer coaching and the liberating structure called Troika consulting
• (00:12:40) Switching meetings to weekly, adding workshops and speakers.
• (00:15:04) How content is enhanced by peer sessions.
• (00:18:04) Auditing requires thorough individual analysis first.
• (00:21:45) Having a Slack channel for communication and cohort updates.
• (00:24:24) Collaborative learning fosters accountability and progress.
• (00:30:04) Communities start small and grow through shared value.
• (00:31:20) Collaborative learning is about inviting questions and finding answers.

Links from the podcast:

• Connect with Anamaria Dorgo on LinkedIn
• Check out her website 
• More about the course
• Learn more about Liberating Structures
• Listen to Mapping Ties

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Rance Green talks about the transformative power of storytelling in learning. He shares his "instructional story design" method, emphasising the need to understand the learning audience deeply and integrate conflict effectively into training narratives. Rance also provides practical advice on creating impactful training stories that act like flight simulators for the brain, driving both context and action.

About Rance Greene

Rance Greene is a story designer, author and speaker. Rance helps leaders connect with, inspire, guide and persuade their people through story-based messaging. He also equips talent development professionals to reach business outcomes through story-based training. A leader, consultant, coach and frequent speaker in live and virtual sessions on leadership storytelling, story-writing and instructional story design.

Key takeaways:

• Understand your audience: Rance emphasises the importance of deeply understanding your learning audience to create relatable characters and scenarios. This ensures the training is tailored to their specific needs and resonates on a personal level.
• Incorporate conflict: One of the essential elements of a compelling story is conflict. It engages the audience and drives the narrative forward. Rance highlights that stories in training should end at the height of conflict to leave a lasting impression and a desire for resolution.
• Story design as a process: Rance’s "instructional story design" method combines analytical and creative steps, making storytelling accessible to everyone, even if you don’t see yourself as a natural storyteller. By focusing on behaviours and actions, training stories become both relatable and actionable.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction.
• (00:06:12) Scenarios compared to stories.
• (00:11:08) Training stories need relatable characters and conflict.
• (00:16:07) Encourage stakeholder responsibility through system-based thinking.
• (00:18:22) How will training benefit individuals personally?
• (00:25:21) Start a story, resolve conflict, and ask reflective questions.
• (00:28:39) Efficiently teach storytelling: conflict, action, brevity.

Links from the podcast:

• Connect with Lance Greene on LinkedIn
• Read ‘Instructional Story Design’
• Visit NeedAStory.com

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Lisa Bodell, CEO of FutureThink and a global leader in simplification and innovation, explores the vital role of curiosity in our rapidly evolving AI landscape. Robin and Lisa discuss the power of asking "killer questions," fostering a culture of curiosity, and the irreplaceable human touch in creativity and problem-solving. Lisa also shares practical examples and insights on how diverse questioning can lead to innovative solutions in both work and personal life.

About Lisa Bodell

Lisa Bodell is an award-winning author and CEO of FutureThink. She has repeatedly been selected as one of the Top 50 Keynote Speakers in the World and recognized as one of the top 50 futurists. As a futurist and expert on the topic of innovation and simplicity, she serves as a global council member of the World Economic Forum, and has helped thousands of senior leaders ignite innovation at Bloomberg, Pfizer, Lockheed Martin, and more.

Key takeaways:

• Curiosity as a Skill: it is not just a natural trait; it's a skill that can be taught, practised, and sharpened. Organisations must foster a culture where asking questions is encouraged and safe.
• The Power of Better Questions: in the age of AI, the quality of answers is directly tied to the quality of questions. Instead of defaulting to straightforward queries, try "question storming" to expand your thinking and uncover new possibilities.
• Thinking Time is Crucial: Lisa emphasised the importance of carving out time for deep, uninterrupted thinking. This isn't just beneficial for innovation at work but for personal growth too.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction
• (00:03:54) How brainstorming problems unlocks creative solutions.
• (00:08:28) Innovation involves uniqueness, not identical prompts and answers.
• (00:10:42) Use provocative questions to inspire disruptive innovation.
• (00:13:05) Lack of preparation and time stifles creativity.
• (00:16:32) Progress comes from creating multiple iterations.
• (00:22:05) How ‘The Artist's Way’ nurtures creativity through daily writing.
• (00:23:04) Monthly thinking day eases personal and business challenges.

Links from the podcast

• Connect with Lisa Bodell on LinkedIn
• Visit FutureThink
• Read The Artist's Way

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Sarah Hawk, co-CEO of Discourse, shares the transformative potential of chat platforms in facilitating learning and collaboration in the workplace. The conversation explores the concept of "fast lane" and "slow lane" chat environments, emphasising the significance of intentional information architecture and fostering a culture of open, transparent communication, and much more.

About Sarah Hawk

Sarah Hawk is an expert in online community building and manages the team that builds Discourse, the 100% open source discussion platform built for the next decade of the Internet. Prior to her current role, Hawk was Head of Community at community consultancy FeverBee.

Key takeaways:

• Intentional Information Architecture: Hawk emphasises the importance of designing a well-structured information system. Ensuring people know where to post questions, how to find answers, and how to retain and document knowledge is crucial for long-term organisational growth.
• Mindful Cultural Building: Building a culture that encourages open communication, prolific question-asking, and transparent storytelling enriches the learning experience. It's about taking people on your journey, not just arriving at the destination.
• Fast Lane vs. Slow Lane in Chat Platforms: Understanding the distinct roles of real-time (fast lane) and more permanent, reflective discussions (slow lane) helps optimise chat platforms for both immediate collaboration and long-term knowledge retention.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction.
• (00:04:05) Communication in remote workplaces and its impact.
• (00:09:18) Empowerment through intentional and mindful discussion.
• (00:11:51) Archiving fast-paced conversations systematically.
• (00:14:41) Building community through setting guidelines.
• (00:18:52) The need for a flexible platform for knowledge sharing and safety.
• (00:20:55) Insights on information architecture, culture and learning.

Links from the podcast:

• Connect with Sarah Hawk on LinkedIn
• Check out Discourse’s Website

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Kayvon Touran shares the transformative potential of AI in skill management. Tune in as we unpack the pivotal role of context in making skill frameworks effective and the innovative ways AI can address the nuances of managing skills within organisations. Kayvon also reveals how AI can streamline data collection and enhance skill assessments through dynamic simulations.

About Kayvon Touran

Kayvon Touran is the CEO and co-founder of Zal.ai. Kayvon has spent his entire career working in early stage technology startups, and most recently as a product leader in education technology where he created and implemented a next generation lifelong learning platform for higher education institutions.

Key takeaways:

• Context is king: Generic skill definitions won’t cut it. Kayvon shares how customised, context-specific skills frameworks are essential for genuinely impactful training.
• AI as a powerful tool: Artificial intelligence can streamline the collection and analysis of skill data, helping to distil massive amounts of information into actionable insights.
• Practice and personalisation: Realistic, role-specific simulation-based training can elevate employee performance. Explore AI-driven, practice-based assessments to provide dynamic, tailored feedback and training opportunities.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction
• (00:03:15) Data analysis for actionable insights at organisational level.
• (00:07:34) Passion for skills transformation in organisations.
• (00:09:50) Importance of generative AI in product development.
• (00:14:51) How to use AI to summarise skill definitions from the web.
• (00:18:21) Having personalised dynamic training for durable skills, performance-based.
• (00:22:23) Why is context crucial for effective skill training?

Links from the podcast

• Connect with Kayvon Touran on LinkedIn
• Zal.ai’s Website

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, Brant Gibbons, President of Knowledge Anywhere, shares his expert insights on the current generation of AI tools, the balance between innovation and practicality, and the critical considerations for L&D professionals when integrating AI into their workflows. We explore the exciting potential of AI, the inherent risks, and the ongoing tension between cutting-edge technology and maintaining quality human interactions in learning experiences.

About Brant Gibbons

As the President of Knowledge Anywhere, Brant Gibbons leads a team of passionate and innovative professionals who deliver technology-based learning solutions to help their clients achieve their goals. With over 20 years of experience in the learning industry, Brant has a proven track record of driving growth, building strategic partnerships, and enhancing customer satisfaction. Founded in 1998, Knowledge Anywhere, Inc. is an award-winning company that has emerged as a leader in knowledge transfer through eLearning technology.

Key takeaways:

• Think Big, Start Small: Embrace AI as the future but proceed with caution. Analyse its impact on your workflow and ensure it drives both performance and cost-efficiency without compromising user experience.
• Stay Data-Driven: Don’t lose focus on analytical approaches. While generative AI can be helpful, foundational data analytics are crucial for making informed, impactful decisions.
• Balance Innovation with Quality: AI can make content creation faster and easier, but it’s critical to maintain the human element in learning experiences to avoid alienating your audience.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction
• (00:05:55) Compliance-driven training lacks meaningful business impact
• (00:08:16) Using technology to supplement traditional instructional design
• (00:13:17) Future of learning: ongoing, personalised, interactive knowledge-seeking
• (00:14:34) Custom chatbots and generative learning
• (00:20:58) Embrace AI cautiously and align with audience needs

Links from the podcast

• Connect with Brant on LinkedIn
• Knowledge Anywhere’s Website

In this episode of the Learning While Working Podcast, David Guralnick, the CEO of Kaleidoscope Learning and President of the International eLearning Association, shares the potential of AI-driven, learner-centric environments. He also unpacks the possibilities of AI as a personalised coach, and the challenges organisations face in adopting new technologies. Plus, hear David's valuable insights on moving beyond traditional constraints to dream big and scale back, ensuring that the ideal learning experience is always within reach.

About David Guralnick

David Guralnick is the current President and CEO of Kaleidoscope Learning. He is also the current president of the International E-Learning Association; founder and chair of The Learning Ideas Conference; Editor-in-Chief of the International Journal on Advanced Corporate Learning; Chair of the International E-Learning Awards; and an Adjunct Professor at Columbia University. He is the author of the book "How Organizations Can Make the Most of Online Learning”.

Key takeaways:

• Meaningful Learning Defined: it's not just about content or information. Meaningful learning resonates emotionally and aligns with personal goals, whether in the workplace, school, or life in general.
• AI as a Coach: Imagine having an AI coach guiding you through complex scenarios, learning about your interests, and tailoring experiences specifically for you. David discusses the potential of AI to act as a mentor and facilitator, making learning not just efficient, but deeply engaging.
• The Future of Learning: David shares some strong visions for the future, advocating for a shift from traditional, constraint-bound methods to innovative, tech-enabled approaches that truly reimagine education.

Chapters:

• (00:00:00) Introduction.
• (00:05:38) Progressive learning techniques and leveraging technology for education.
• (00:06:41) Reconsidering education in the age of AI.
• (00:09:50) AI's potential and challenges in near future.
• (00:14:28) Early AI work in education at Northwestern.
• (00:19:03) Created specialised authoring tool for non-technical users.
• (00:20:02) Online learning constrained by tool limitations and coding.
• (00:25:10) Start big, think AI, and what the ideal experience looks like.
• (00:26:34) Accepting tradeoffs can lead to greater satisfaction.

Links from the podcast

• Connect with David on LinkedIn
• Visit Kaleidoscope Learning’s Website
• Read David’s book ‘How Organizations Can Make the Most of Online Learning’