Life After Ministry

Why is it so hard to let go of a ministry you love before something forces the decision? 

Robin Fuller knows firsthand. After more than 23 years in pregnancy center ministry, she burned out and heard that only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well.

She decided to be part of that 10 percent. Robin lifted the mantle off her shoulders in front of her board and walked through a four-year succession plan that started with a simple "Things I Do" document.

Matt and Robin talk about why founders struggle most, how a poverty mindset keeps leaders in the seat too long, and why outgoing leaders need to step away for at least six months. Robin also shares her new book, Finish Well: Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love.

1. Succession starts long before you leave. Robin spent four years working with her board so the ministry could continue without a blip.

2. Write down what you actually do. A simple "Things I Do" list shows what to release, what to delegate, and what the next leader will need.

3. Know what will be missing when you are gone. Robin knew finances were not her gift, so she looked for a successor who was strong where she was not.

4. Pay and plan for your people. Fair pay and retirement planning keep leaders from staying too long just because they cannot afford to leave.

5. Give your successor room. Robin now encourages every outgoing leader to stay away for at least six months and to hand pride back to the Lord.

00:00 - Why Letting Go Is So Hard

Robin's story, burnout, and why only about 10 percent of ministry leaders finish well.

06:58 - The "Things I Do" Document

The simple list that showed Robin what to release and how to restructure her role.

12:10 - Why Leaders Stay Too Long

Founders, the poverty mindset, and building a healthy compensation philosophy.

20:19 - Stepping Away Well

The six-month rule, keeping staff through the handoff, and wrestling with pride.

27:30 - Finish Well: The Book

Twelve practical steps for ministry leaders and boards, plus Robin's masterminds.

If you are navigating a ministry transition, visit Ministry Transitions to explore resources or start a confidential conversation.

Get Robin Fuller's book Finish Well: Succession Planning for the Ministry You Love and learn about her coaching and succession planning mastermind groups at robinfuller.coach. The book is also available on Amazon.

Connect with Robin on Facebook and LinkedIn.

Music licensed through Soundstripe.

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Anthony Barton was a successful business owner when a trust attorney asked what his family mission statement was - not his business one.

That question pushed him beyond leaving a gift toward building a legacy, and within 90 days he and his family were serving in Swaziland.

Cancer later clarified the shift. Anthony sold his company, entered seminary, and now coaches Christian entrepreneurs through Convene.

In this conversation he shares frameworks for pausing and pivoting, caring for people as image-bearers, and looking for God's providence in disruption.

6. KEY TAKEAWAYS

1. A gift and a legacy aren't the same thing. Anthony's trajectory changed when he began thinking about what his family could build together for God rather than simply what he could someday leave behind.

2. God can use disruption to clarify calling. Anthony describes cancer as brutal, but also as a season that brought unusual clarity about where his life needed to go next.

3. You cannot pivot well if you never pause. Healthy leaders and organizations stop long enough to evaluate what is happening before they change direction.

4. People are not resources. Christian leadership should see people as individuals made in the image of God, not simply inputs for organizational productivity.

5. Providence may be the most important P. In business, ministry, transition, and suffering, Anthony keeps returning to one question: Where is God's providence in all that we do?

7. CHAPTER MARKERS

00:00 - Welcome Anthony Barton

Matt introduces Anthony and begins with the major turning point in 2013.

00:47 - Gift or Legacy?

A trust attorney asks Anthony a question that changes how he thinks about what he will leave his family.

07:59 - The Next Disruption: Cancer

A cancer diagnosis reshapes Anthony's understanding of life, calling, and what he wants to build.

13:15 - Protect, Pause, and Pivot

Anthony shares leadership priorities beyond profit and productivity, including pause and pivot.

23:17 - The Eight F's Diagnostic

Anthony introduces a simple framework for understanding the people you lead beyond what they produce.

8. RESOURCES

If you’re navigating a ministry transition, visit Ministry Transitions to explore resources or start a confidential conversation.

To learn more about Anthony Barton and his work with Christian business leaders, visit Anthony Barton at Convene.

You can also explore Convene.

Resources:

Ministry Transitions

Anthony Barton at Convene

Convene

What happens when trust breaks inside a church, nonprofit, or leadership team?

Dr. Rob McKenna explains why trust is more than a feeling, how leaders can rebuild it after failure, and why succession is really the transfer of trust.

This conversation explores emotional maturity, candor, vulnerability, blind spots, competence, reliability, and the three questions every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here?

• Trust has identifiable drivers, including candor, competence, reliability, emotional maturity, and concern for others.
• Nearly half of employees experience their workplace as a “jungle of trust.”
• Competence matters, but competence alone does not make someone a trusted leader.
• Rebuilding trust requires responsibility, self-awareness, grace, and continual repair.
• Succession is more than transferring a role; it is transferring trust into a team and organizational culture.
• Leaders must create conditions where people can tell the truth and receive difficult feedback.
• Every team member is asking: Do I matter? Are you telling me the truth? Do I belong here?

00:00 – Succession as the transfer of trust
01:23 – Introducing Dr. Rob McKenna
02:15 – Why trust is difficult in ministry and nonprofit organizations
06:04 – The State of Trust at Work
08:34 – Signs that trust is missing
10:25 – Why competence alone is not enough
14:19 – What it means to be a whole leader
18:00 – Handling difficult conversations during transition
20:00 – Succession and the transfer of trust
24:51 – How leaders rebuild trust after failure
28:34 – Blind spots and meaningful change
32:44 – What individuals can do in a jungle of trust
35:57 – How organizations can begin rebuilding trust
39:00 – Closing thoughts and resources

Visit MinistryTransitions.com if a leadership transition is exposing cracks in trust. To learn more about Dr. Rob McKenna’s work, Whole Leaders, Wild Trust, and WiLD Leaders’ tools, visit wildleaders.org.

Most ministry leaders expect to decide when they step away. Dennis Atwood never had that opportunity.

After serving churches for nearly three decades, Dennis was diagnosed with early-onset Parkinson's disease. He quietly carried the diagnosis for years before the progression of the disease forced him to step away from the pastorate he loved. 

In this deeply honest conversation, Dennis reflects on grief, identity, suffering, and why choosing gratitude isn't about denying pain but discovering God's faithfulness in the middle of it.

• Unexpected health challenges can reshape both ministry and identity.
• Grief is a natural part of leaving a calling you deeply love.
• Gratitude isn't the absence of suffering but a response to God's faithfulness within it.
• Ministry leaders need purpose beyond the title they hold.
• God often brings deep spiritual formation through seasons we would never choose.

00:00 Dennis' pastoral journey and ministry background

01:45 An early Parkinson's diagnosis changes everything

03:30 Why Dennis kept his diagnosis private for years

07:45 Telling the church and preparing for transition

11:00 Missing ministry more than expected

13:15 Becoming a caregiver and navigating family transition

14:30 Holy discontent and living with purpose

16:20 Choosing gratitude through suffering

20:00 The dark night of the soul and spiritual formation

25:30 Encouragement for leaders whose ministry ended unexpectedly

If you're facing a ministry transition or unexpected life change, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Dennis and his book Choosing Gratitude at Market Square Books.

Missionaries spend years preparing to go to the field, but few are prepared for what it feels like to come home.

After serving six years in Germany, Nate and Brittany Bruns share the unexpected challenges of returning to the United States, navigating reverse culture shock, raising third-culture kids, and rebuilding community.

Ultimately, they discovered God was calling them to live as missionaries in their own country. 

Their story offers practical encouragement for missionaries, churches, and anyone walking through an unexpected ministry transition.

• Reverse culture shock can be more difficult than moving overseas.
• Missionary transitions affect spouses, children, and the entire family.
• God often prepares leaders for future seasons long before they understand why.
• Returning missionaries bring valuable wisdom that can strengthen the local church.
• Waiting on God is an active posture of trust, not passive inactivity.

00:00 Job loss, the desert season, and God's unexpected call to Germany

04:30 Reaching a post-Christian culture through relationships

07:15 When God said it was time to come home

11:15 Reverse culture shock and becoming strangers in your own country

16:00 Helping third-culture kids navigate transition

20:15 How churches can better care for returning missionaries

23:30 What America can learn from post-Christian Europe

26:45 Financial transitions and rebuilding support

30:00 Waiting on God and discerning what's next

34:00 The Bruns Tribe and engaging the spiritually disengaged

36:30 Encouragement for missionaries in transition

If you're navigating a ministry transition, we'd love to help. Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Nate and Brittany's ministry at The Bruns Tribe.

Few ministry leaders expect the end of their pastoral chapter to unfold differently than they imagined. Yet for many, transition arrives carrying both grief and unexpected opportunity.

In this honest conversation, Scott Sauls reflects on stepping away after more than 30 years of pastoral ministry, processing the loss of a role he loved, recovering from work addiction, and discovering a new calling shepherding high-capacity leaders. 

Along the way, he offers wisdom about identity, friendship, reconciliation, and trusting God when the future feels uncertain.

00:00 Scott's ministry journey and pastoral background

02:20 An unexpected transition from pastoral ministry

05:00 Grief, relief, and leaving a church you love

07:00 Confronting work addiction through recovery

09:30 Is Scott still a pastor?

11:00 The birth of the Sycamore Community

16:30 Shepherding leaders outside the local church

18:30 The impact of ministry transitions on spouses and families

21:00 Loving across the lines of difference

27:00 The Mercy King and God's relentless love

If you're navigating a ministry transition, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Scott's work at Scott Sauls.

Founder transitions are some of the most difficult moments in ministry leadership, but they don't have to end poorly.

After leading the church he planted for 27 years, Keith Spurgin shares the lessons he learned about succession, feedback, sabbaticals, and letting go with confidence. 

He also reflects on the leadership mistakes he nearly made during COVID and how stepping away for a year ultimately prepared both him and his church for a healthy transition.

00:00 Introduction and Keith's ministry journey

00:45 Nearly derailing a succession plan during COVID

01:45 Why handing leadership to a team changed everything

06:45 Building trust before succession

07:45 Why Keith stayed away for six months after stepping down

09:00 Lessons from an unexpected year-long sabbatical

15:20 Why every leader needs honest feedback

18:15 Processing life after ministry

24:00 The Growth Resourcing Group

26:00 Unknown: Finding Connection in a Disconnected World

27:30 Why Keith's next book is about finishing well

Preparing for a leadership transition? Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Keith's leadership resources at Keith Spurgin.

Many leaders secretly believe their value comes from what they do. But what happens when the title disappears, the ministry ends, or life takes a turn you never expected?

In this deeply personal conversation, Steve Cummings shares his journey through ministry leadership, addiction recovery, job loss, financial uncertainty, and ultimately discovering a deeper identity as a beloved son of God. 

From sitting in rehab at age 55 to working at Home Depot and eventually launching Bringing Kingdom, Steve offers hope for anyone learning to trust God in a season they never planned for.

00:00 Friendship, ministry history, and Steve's background

01:30 Seminary, missed opportunities, and unexpected career turns

03:45 Building a career in nonprofit ministry

06:00 Hidden struggles, addiction, and personal collapse

08:00 Rehab, recovery, and discovering the deeper issues

11:00 Losing a ministry position and starting over

12:30 Working at Home Depot and confronting identity

16:00 Launching Bringing Kingdom

21:30 The Father Eclipse and understanding father wounds

28:00 Helping men discover their identity

31:30 Financial uncertainty, faith, and trusting God's provision

40:30 Is there life after ministry?

If you're navigating a leadership transition or difficult season, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Steve's ministry at Bringing Kingdom.

Most leaders know succession planning matters. Far fewer know how to start the conversation.

In this episode, Gary Blackard, President and CEO of Adult & Teen Challenge USA, shares lessons from leading a national ministry, navigating leadership transitions, and helping people find hope in the midst of life's most difficult challenges.

From succession planning and organizational stewardship to addiction recovery and spiritual formation, Gary offers practical wisdom for leaders who want their influence to outlast their tenure.

00:00 Introduction and Gary's leadership journey

01:30 Transitioning into Adult & Teen Challenge leadership

04:20 The history and mission of Adult & Teen Challenge

09:40 Ministry leaders, addiction, and the importance of the private altar

12:00 Spiritual disciplines that sustain healthy leadership

15:20 Why hope matters during seasons of change

18:30 Facing the succession elephant

21:30 Why leaders avoid succession planning

27:00 Building a lasting leadership legacy

33:40 The Hope Within Reach podcast and helping families navigate addiction

37:00 Final thoughts and encouragement

Navigating a leadership transition or preparing for succession? Start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Listen to Hope Within Reach and learn more about Adult & Teen Challenge at Adult & Teen Challenge USA 

Success in ministry can hide struggles that few people ever see. 

While Will Acuff was helping build a nonprofit that would eventually launch thousands of entrepreneurs and transform communities, his family was walking through years of exhaustion, medical challenges, and uncertainty. 

The contrast forced him to confront a difficult question: what happens when the strategies that helped you succeed no longer work?

In this conversation, Will shares the lessons he learned through leadership succession, personal suffering, and the unexpected journey that led him to write No Elevator to Everest. 

For leaders facing transition, burnout, or uncertainty, this episode offers a hopeful vision for finding joy that is not dependent on circumstances.

00:00 Welcome and Will's ministry background

03:45 Launching Corner to Corner and helping entrepreneurs escape poverty

07:50 Why the Church should lead community transformation

11:10 Succession planning and transitioning leadership as a founder

19:55 Parenting through complex disabilities and chronic hardship

24:00 Creating a "joy lab" in the middle of suffering

29:00 The story behind No Elevator to Everest

31:00 Advice for burned-out ministry leaders

35:00 Finding joy in the middle of hard

35:40 Resources, book, and final encouragement

If you're navigating a ministry transition or leadership challenge, start a conversation with a specialist at Ministry Transitions. Learn more about Will's work at Corner to Corner and his book at No Elevator to Everest.