Defence, security, Russia and China are on the agenda in the latest Lord Speaker’s Corner. Former Nato Secretary General, Lord Robertson of Port Ellen, and former First Sea Lord, Lord West of Spithead, speak to Lord McFall of Alcluith.

In this episode, Lord Robertson, who was also Defence Secretary from 1997 to 1999, warns that the UK is “under-prepared and under attack”. He also discusses Russian-organised sabotage in Europe, explaining “They can’t do it themselves. So they are now contracting out, a good capitalist principle, to organised crime. Our undersea cables, which carry 99% of all the data we use, are vulnerable and they're watching them and, in some cases, attacking them.”

Lord West, the UK’s first Security Minister from 2007 to 2010, reflects on Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, saying “It’s quite difficult to see how one’s going to get out of this [conflict] because one doesn’t want a full war between Nato and Russia. They [Russia] would lose it. And the danger with them losing it is – would they then make that stupid mistake of going nuclear?” 

Both also share their thoughts and experience of dealing with China. Lord West discusses his experience commanding a battle group as he dealt with a challenging Chinese navy during the handover of Hong Kong: “out at sea it was very different from the pictures coming from Hong Kong. The Chinese Navy were trying to ram our ships. They were opening missile doors.”

Lord Robertson suggests a careful approach, saying “We've got to engage with China, but recognise that it is going to be the future challenge - militarily, commercially and diplomatically - and therefore be very, very cautious about what we do... I think it's probably better to call the Chinese a problem rather than a threat at the present moment.”

Lord West also discusses his experience in the nuclear chain of command on 9/11, sharing “I remember getting a phone call from our nuclear firing cell, the guys who finally - when all the codes go - press the buttons, and they said, unbelievably, on my red phone [linking to the UK deterrent]: ‘Sir... the Americans are starting to move to immediate readiness for nuclear weapon release in all three systems.’ That’s strategic air, intercontinental ballistic missiles and subsurface ...’What do you want me to do?’”

See more from the series https://www.parliament.uk/business/lords/house-of-lords-podcast/

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