Louder Than Words with John Bonini

In this episode, I sit down with Natalie Marcotullio to talk about the thinking behind Navattic’s Buyer First report—and why content only started working when they made it bigger than the product.

We get into:

• How to create content that people care about before they’re in a buying cycle
• The evolution of the Buyer First report (and why it’s still ungated)
• Why tying your brand to a bigger idea builds long-term trust
• The difference between capturing demand and creating it

If you’ve ever felt like your content is stuck in sales-support mode, this one’s for you.

Here's the link to the full 2025 B2B Buyer First Report: https://www.chilipiper.com/post/2025-b2b-buyer-first-report 

In the debut episode of Words in Progress, a mini-series within Louder Than Words, John Bonini sits down with Natalie Marcotullio, Head of Growth & Product Marketing at Navattic, to unpack how she and her team transformed a vague idea—buyer first—into a tangible, ownable editorial narrative and content framework.

They walk through the evolution of Navattic's flagship report, how it moved from a simple data dump to a narrative-driven asset, and how that narrative now ties together all of their content efforts—from blog posts and webinars to LinkedIn and beyond. This conversation is a behind-the-scenes look at how content brands are built in progress—not just in hindsight.

In this episode, John sits down with Natalie Marcotullio, head of growth and operations at Navattic. Natalie shares her experience transitioning from a traditional SEO-driven content marketing playbook to a more customer-focused approach and how that's paid off. 

Discussed in this episode:

• Leveraging customer insights and data to craft content that stands out.
• Unique perspectives and insights are crucial in content creation to differentiate a company from competitors.
• A unique branding approach that aligns with the company's values and sets it apart from others is essential.
• Authenticity in content helps build trust and engagement with the audience.
• Partnerships and collaborations with industry experts can help reach a wider audience and provide valuable insights.
• Shifting away from the traditional SEO playbook and focusing on unique content creation can yield better results.
• Manual qualitative research can provide unique insights and make content more valuable and trustworthy.

Enjoy!

In this episode, John catches up with old friend and copywriting savant, Eddie Shleyner. Eddie is the founder of VeryGoodCopy where he has built up a massive audience and profitable personal brand using primarily 2 mediums –– blog posts (what Eddie calls micro articles) and email. 

Things discussed in this episode: 

• Teaching yourself a new skill can be done through creating personal projects and writing about what you're learning.
• Adapting content for different mediums requires adjusting the narrative, word count, and technique to fit the platform's parameters.
• Authenticity and personal stories can resonate with readers and help build a strong connection with the audience.
• Choosing the right format for your content, whether it's micro articles, videos, or podcasts, can allow your work to shine and attract the right audience.

Timestamps

• (00:00) - Introduction

Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount. 

This week, John sits down with content legend Ross Simmonds. Ross is the founder and CEO of Foundational Marketing, an agency focused on distribution, as well as the (new!) author of "Create Once, Distribute Forever."

Discussed in this episode:

• Leading with value is crucial in content marketing to avoid being banned or blocked from platforms.
• Content creators should prioritize distribution to reach a larger audience and maximize the impact of their work.
• Content has the potential to live beyond the creator and inspire future generations.
• Repurposing and updating existing content can be an effective strategy for book writing and content creation.
• Distribution channels like Facebook groups and Twitter chats have evolved over time and require continuous adaptation.
• Understanding the power of distribution can lead to life-changing opportunities and the ability to make a global impact. Provide value on native platforms and view content distribution as a long-term game of touch points and connection.
• Test ideas and concepts to see if they resonate with the audience and have content market fit.
• Creating high-quality content that educates, engages, entertains, or empowers is key.
• Be strategic and creative in repurposing and sharing content across different channels.

***
Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode, the promotional clips, and handling the overall production of Louder Than Words.

Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount. 

This week, I sit down with a friend and and someone whose work I've long admired––Emily Triplett Lentz. Emily has one of the most prolific and legendary resumes in content marketing, working for brands like Basecamp, Help Scout, Loom, and currently, Calendly. 

Things discussed in this episode: 

• Community plays a crucial role in content marketing as it helps build trust and loyalty among target audiences.
• Basecamp's non-traditional approach to content, driven by strong opinions and clarity in messaging, contributed to its success and loyal following.
• Synthesizing information from various sources and incorporating different perspectives can lead to more impactful and insightful content.
• Embrace cultural conversations surrounding your brand and educate your audience to shape the narrative.
• Leverage your audience's voice to amplify your brand message.
• Content is the fuel for important campaigns and initiatives.
• Consider the unique characteristics and needs of your company when developing content strategies.

Timestamps

• (00:00) - Introduction

Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount. 

This week, John sits down with Chris Savage, co-founder and CEO at Wistia. The team at Wistia has always approached content differently than most other companies. They host, and film, parades. They buy and refurbish old station wagons. They record original music. All for the content. In this episode, John geeks out with Chris to learn all about the how and why behind Wistia's unique flavor of content over the last 17 years. 

Discussed in this episode: 

• Creativity and quality are essential in content creation to capture audience attention and build trust.
• Human connection and trust are crucial in content marketing and brands should focus on building relationships with their audience.
• Treating content like a product and investing in its quality and research can lead to audience trust and loyalty.
• Providing a good experience for non-ready customers can help grow the audience and build trust for future conversions.

• (00:00) - Introduction

Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount. 

In this episode, John hangs out with recovering in-house marketer, now founder of Growth Sprints, Brendan Hufford. In the past, Hufford worked in both growth and SEO for companies like ActiveCampaign. Now, he works with SaaS companies to help take them grow through short, focused sprints using his SaaS Growth Sprint framework. 

Discussed in this episode: 

• Navigating bureaucracy requires understanding the value of stair stepping and starting with a V1, V2, V3 approach.
• Transitioning from one career to another often involves taking a step back to gain momentum and escape toxic work environments.
• Creating a personal brand and consistently producing content can lead to opportunities and growth.
• Bigger companies often undervalue creative work and prioritize numbers and politicking.
• The role of individual contributors who have an audience that aligns with the company's audience is highly valuable.
• Why companies should embrace creators who can not only create content but also contribute to the company's growth.
• Being interested in your audience and sharing interesting stories and experiences is more compelling than generic content.
• Traditional keyword research is becoming less effective, and unique angles in content are more important.

Timestamps:

• (00:00) - Introduction

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode, the promotional clips, and handling the overall production of Louder Than Words.

Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount. 

This week, John is joined by Rand Fishkin––one of the true OGs when it comes to B2B content marketing. Rand is the founder and former CEO of Moz and the current founder and CEO of SparkToro. He's also the author of Lost and Founder: A Painfully Honest Field Guide to the Startup World.

Discussed in this episode: 

• SparkToro's three-year retrospective 
• The evolution of Rand's marketing approach involved a shift from less strategic and more experimental tactics to a focus on scalability.
• Balancing scalability and personalization is a key consideration in marketing, with scalable tactics often prioritized for growth.
• The flywheel mentality in marketing involves investing in tactics that improve over time and deliver better results with each iteration.
• Working through the challenges of anonymity is crucial for content creators, and success often comes from persistence and stomach for low initial engagement.
• Standing out in crowded platforms requires finding channels where competition is low and investing in tactics that resonate with the target audience.
• Designing a business for meaningful engagement involves focusing on a smaller, engaged audience rather than striving for massive numbers.
• Traditional marketing attribution can be a boondoggle, and focusing on vanity metrics can lead to building a marketing flywheel devoid of competition. Emotionally engaging content leads to business growth.
• Zero-click content is valuable and can provide benefits without requiring a click.
• Creating shareable content involves promoting insights and interesting takeaways rather than focusing on clicks.

Chapters:

• (00:00) - Introduction

This episode of Louder Than Words is brought to you by Riverside, my preferred tool for recording and editing podcasts. Right now, Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount.

***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode, the promotional clips, and handling the overall production of Louder Than Words.

Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount. 

 This week, John sits down with Amanda Goetz. Amanda is a 2x founder, 3x CMO, and now a full-time brand builder and creator on personal and professional growth inspiring 150k people each week through social and her weekly newsletter, Life’s a Game.

Amanda shares insights and experiences on:

• Her experience transitioning to full-time content creation (and she’s worked through the anxiety that induces).
• How/why finding validation and proof points, such as audience growth, engagement, and revenue, are important in building a successful content creation business (and how she founder hers).
• How she’s balancing content creation with consulting to provide financial stability while pursuing creative endeavors.
• The operational side of going independent, i.e., purchasing health insurance, setting up your LLC, etc. 

Timestamps

• (00:00) - Introduction

***

This episode of Louder Than Words is brought to you by Riverside, my preferred tool for recording and editing podcasts. Right now, Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount.

***

Thanks to my friends at hatch.fm for producing this episode, the promotional clips, and handling the overall production of Louder Than Words.

Riverside is offering a 15% discount to Louder Than Words listeners. Just visit riverside.fm and use the code LOUDER during checkout to lock in your discount.