love & philosophy

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4e philosopher of cognitive science Hanne De Jaegher discusses the profound relationship between loving and knowing as intertwined processes. The first in what we hope to be many conversations about this inspirational work. With Andrea, Hanne explores the idea that thinking and feeling emerge from the same fundamental act of sense-making, which is rooted in our basic, biological existence. De Jaegher shares her personal experiences and how they led to her academic journey studying cognitive science, and then to her work on participatory sense-making. She emphasizes the importance of recognizing both oneness and difference in relationships and the conversation discusses the critical role of noticing and relational awareness. Through various explorations, De Jaegher illustrates how love is an ongoing relational activity that ‘shares a core with knowing’ and that can foster a deeper understanding of ourselves and others.

00:00 The Nature of Love and Sense Making
01:18 Exploring Cognitive Science and Social Cognition
02:58 Introduction to the Podcast and Guest
03:52 Hanne’s Academic Journey and Dissertation
05:37 The Philosophy of Love and Knowing
09:38 Personal Reflections on Love and Language
11:48 The Interconnection of Loving, Knowing, and Being
22:26 The Role of Noticing in Relationships
25:36 Philosophical Insights on Ontology and Epistemology
30:03 The Dynamics of Relationships and Sense Making
34:42 The Importance of Holding Tension in Understanding
40:53 The Impact of Loving and Knowing on Personal Growth
47:17 Exploring Abstract Patterns and Sensory Experiences
48:25 Understanding Social Cognition and Autism
56:10 Bridging Cognitive Science and Sociology
58:14 Motivations and Challenges in Academic Life
01:01:15 The Role of Love in Research and Life
01:06:27 Navigating Academic and Personal Challenges
01:18:27 Holding Space and Embracing Multiplicity
01:24:47 Concluding Thoughts on Love and Understanding

Francisco Varela

Loving and Knowing: reflections for an engaged epistemology

Paradoxical Practices (2025) with Elena Cuffari and Rika Preiser

Participatory Sense-Making with Ezequiel Di Paolo

Sense Making (Maturana & Varela)

Living Ways of Sense Making by Evan Thompson

Andy Clark

Hanne’s website and publication list

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Andrea Hiott is a philosopher and cognitive scientist developing the navigational approach to mind — the view that mind is “the body’s navigational action in all spaces of life, from the geographical to the emotional to the social to the virtual.” She hosts the Love & Philosophy (Beyond Dichotomy) podcast and Substack, and her work draws on hippocampal research, 4E cognition (embodied, embedded, extended, enactive), and the ecological tradition. Her book Holding Paradox: A Navigational Approach to Mind and Consciousness is forthcoming. Her recurring interests — holding apparent contradictions open, “way-making,” the importance of care and 'mattering', constellation/kaleidoscopic thinking, and moving beyond either/or — frame her questions throughout.

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 Andrea shares a deeply reflective conversation with renowned journalist Shoma Chaudhury. Originally recorded over a year ago for the Synapse conference, this episode offers an intimate look into Shoma's thought process and career journey. Shoma discusses her approach to holding nuanced, meaningful conversations with a wide variety of people, including some of the most famous figures globally. The episode delves into Shoma's personal experiences of navigating public scrutiny and professional hardships. Through the lens of her experiences, Shoma elaborates on themes of curiosity, compassion, forgiveness, and the complexity of human emotions and interactions. The conversation emphasizes the importance of creating spaces where people with opposing viewpoints can have honest dialogue and the valuable lessons that come from challenging life events. Both Shoma and Andrea explore the role of wonder, love, and respect in developing a more nuanced understanding of the world and ourselves.

00:00 Introduction and Context
01:04 Meet Shoma Chaudry
02:31 The Art of Holding Nuance
03:46 Evolving Perspectives in Journalism
06:44 Navigating Polarized Conversations
09:05 Personal Accountability and Growth
17:02 Respect and Understanding in Conflict
34:39 Spiritual Practices and Personal Resilience
50:48 Exploring Curiosity and Neuroscience
51:48 Influence of Parents and Nature
53:23 The Power of Genuine Curiosity
56:14 The Role of Wonder and Joy
57:49 Navigating a Public Scandal
01:02:21 Lessons from a Media Storm
01:06:41 Finding Peace and Resilience
01:14:42 The Importance of Love and Support
01:17:28 The Healing Power of Conversations
01:19:40 Final Reflections and Gratitude

Synapse Deck: https://tinyurl.com/5eaf2sdb

And a short video: https://tinyurl.com/3rcstp93

Watch the Video

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After Andrea’s introduction, Mirko Prokop talks to Ezequiel Di Paolo about the enactive approach in cognitive science and its roots in Francisco Varela’s work on biological autonomy. They explore the ideas of autonomy and autopoiesis, the deeper meaning of enaction, how biological, sensorimotor and social dimensions of embodiment drive the ongoing, creative process that is human becoming, and what this implies about the meaning of love, authenticity, and the importance of staying true to your questions.

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Ezequiel is a Research Professor at Ikerbasque, the Basque Science Foundation and member of the IAS-Research Centre for Life, Mind and Society at the University of the Basque Country as well as the Centre for Computational Neuroscience and Robotics at the University of Sussex. He is known for key developments of the enactive approach and has published numerous articles and books on this and related topics in cognitive science and philosophy. Most recently, together with Evan Thompson he has reedited the new, annotated edition of Francisco Varela’s book Principles of Biological Autonomy, first published in 1979.

00:00 Intro by Andrea

05:02 Varela’s Principles of Biological Autonomy: From First Encounter to New Edition

11:25 Autopoiesis and Autonomy

19:20 Enaction: Bringing Forth a World

26:38 The Co-Construction of Organism and Environment

33:46 Dimensions of Embodiment

38:35 Enactive Becoming

43:57 The Primordial Tension of Participatory Sense-Making

52:32 What’s Love Got to Do With It?

1:00:36 Authentic Becoming

1:04:40 Staying True to Your Questions

Links to mentioned work by Varela & Co:

Principles of Biological Autonomy (Varela, F., E. Di Paolo and E. Thompson (eds.), 1979/2025, MIT Press)

The Embodied Mind (Thompson, E. Varela, F., and Rosch, E. 1991/2018, MIT Press)

Organism: A Meshwork of Selfless Selves (Varela, F., 1991)

Patterns of Life: Intertwining Identity and Cognition (Varela, F., 1997)

Life after Kant: Natural Purposes and the autopoietic foundations of biological individuality (Weber, A. and Varela, F., 2002)

Autopoiesis, Adaptivity, Teleology, Agency (Di Paolo, E., 2005)

Participatory sense-making: An enactive approach to social cognition (De Jaegher, H., and Di Paolo, E., 2007)

Sensorimotor Life (Di Paolo, E., Buhrmann, T., Barandiaran, X., 2017, OUP)

Linguistic Bodies (Di Paolo, E., De Jaegher, H., and Cuffari, E., 2018, MIT Press)

Enactive Becoming (Di Paolo, E., 2021)

F/acts: Ways of Enactive Worldmaking (Di Paolo, E., 2023)

Mirko Prokop is currently a PhD student at the IAS-Research Centre for Life, Mind and Society at the University of the Basque Country (UPV/EHU).

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 This show is about harmonizing the Dao and embracing the world's weirdness at once. Our guest is Eric Schwitzgebel, an analytic philosopher and professor at the University of California Riverside. As they unfold the Dao and the world’s weirdness, Andrea and Eric explore everything from robot consciousness, the love darts of snails, triads, axiology, and the philosophy of opening. Eric shares his journey into classical Chinese philosophy, how we understands harmonizing with the Dao, some of his writings about consciousness, and the importance of appreciating the world's inherent weirdness. This conversation offers a delightful blend of profound ideas and joyous reflections, encouraging us to see weird as a way into new perspectives and perhaps even into love. Hosted by philosopher Andrea Hiott

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00:00 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
00:20 Meet Eric Schwitzgebel: Philosopher and Author
01:37 Exploring the Concept of Harmonizing the Dao
01:52 Journey into Classical Chinese Philosophy
03:59 The Tension Between Analytic and Chinese Philosophy
06:22 Understanding the Dao and Harmony
11:16 The Weird and Wonderful World of Zhuangzi
17:40 The Value of Diversity and Conflict
33:14 The Consciousness of Garden Snails
41:57 Exploring Relationality and Consciousness
43:50 The Consciousness of Plants and Robots
46:52 Philosophical Perspectives on Consciousness
55:38 The Philosophy of Opening vs. Closing
01:10:06 Ethics and Moral Behavior of Ethicists
01:17:43 Love, Marriage, and Harmonizing with the Dao
01:22:16 Final Thoughts and Farewell

The Book we discuss:

The Weirdness of the World

Writings we discuss:

Harmonizing the Dao

Imagining Yourself in Another’s Shoes versus Extending Your Concern: Empirical & Ethical Differences

A Robot Lover's Sociological Argument for Robot Consciousness

Borderline Consciousness

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 Julian Kiverstein is a senior professor at Amsterdam Medical. He's co-authored various papers about the importance of play as it relates to predictive processing, active learning, intimacy and embodied cognition.

Andrea Hiott is a philosopher at Universität Heidelberg.

Sometimes we get stuck in attractor states. Play is a form of disruption that may be able to help us get unstuck. Play seems to be far from algorithmic.

This conversation explores how playfulness is crucial for meaning and flourishing, and how building safe spaces for play (such as museums and parks) are crucial for healthy societies.

Active inference and predictive processing are discussed as tools that might help us better model and understand this ‘sweet spot’ towards finding ways to create spaces where we can explore uncertainty and risk without danger.

Drawing from his extensive work in phenomenology, embodied cognition, and predictive processing, Julian offers fresh perspectives on how play connects to mental health and wellbeing. Some key ideas from this episode:

• Play requires safety yet involves taking risks—a paradoxical relationship that enables personal growth
• Adults often lose the curious openness of childhood as we become fixated on seriousness and habitual patterns
• Love shares qualities with play as both involve transcendence beyond the self and openness to fresh experiences
• Active inference and predictive processing provide frameworks for understanding both mental illness and flourishing
• Breaking out of "attractor states" or fixed patterns requires disruption that playful activities can provide
• Creating safe spaces for play becomes essential for development, creativity, and meaning-making

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00:00 The Role of Play in Well-being
01:50 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
02:45 Exploring Active Inference and Predictive Processing
05:24 The Importance of Play in Development
09:58 Julian's Journey into Mind Studies
12:11 Understanding Mental Illness through Predictive Processing
21:57 The Concept of Play and Its Cognitive Benefits
30:27 Intrinsic Motivation and the Value of Play
44:12 Play as a Disruptive Force in Mental Health
45:09 Understanding Mental Illness and Uncertainty
46:13 The Role of Play in Mental Health
47:38 Creating Safe Spaces for Emotional Regulation
49:05 Exploration vs. Exploitation in Learning
52:03 The Importance of Play in Adulthood
53:35 Art, Literature, and Emotional Engagement
56:55 The Need for Play in Academia
01:20:50 Balancing Exploration and Familiarity
01:23:37 Final Thoughts on Play and Well-being

Play in Predictive Minds

Intimate Places: Playgrounds for self-exploration

Playfulness and the meaningful life with Mark Miller

More of Julian's papers

Stuart Brown and the Institute of Play

JK and Darius Active Inference Institute

Harry Heft Conversation

Karl Friston Conversation

Blog post about Active Inference

4E Cognition

LinkedIn

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 Sabina Leonelli (hosted live here by Fotis Tsiroukis) is a philosopher of science and technology renowned for pioneering work in the philosophy of data & open science. As a professor at the Technical University ofMunich (TUM), she directs the Ethical Data Initiative and leads the PHIL_OS project, which develops empirically grounded frameworks for open science in under-resourced research environments. Her interdisciplinary approach bridges high theory with participatory, on-the-ground research—exemplified by her ethnographic collaborations with biologists and data scientists.

In this episode, host Fotis engages in a deep and wide-ranging conversation with Sabina Leonelli. They explore the intersections between philosophy, science, and society, discussing topics like complementary science, the role of qualitative and quantitative methods in research, the challenges of interdisciplinary work, and the ethical implications of AI and data-driven technologies. Sabina urges us to not fear inconvenience—embracing complexity and discomfort in intellectual and social pursuits. The conversation touches on the necessity of love, vulnerability & collective agency in navigating the modern world, offering profound insights into how we can rethink knowledge production, technology, and politics.

Sabina Leonelli

[00:00:00] Highlights & Introduction

[00:10:41] Interview Begins

[00:11:13] Sabina's Journey

[00:14:17] Fascination with Boundary-Disrespecting Thinkers

[00:16:20] Early Influences & Education

[00:19:21] Challenges of Interdisciplinary Work

[00:20:39] Mentors & Inspirations

[00:23:54] The Approach of Complementary Science

[00:28:37] Collaborating with Scientists as a Philosopher

[00:32:26] Philosophy of Data

[00:36:00] Questions Left Out of Biology

[00:37:40] Coming to terms with Social Epistemology

[00:40:05] Choices & Assumptions in Scientific Research

[00:40:05] Willingness to Engage with the Social Nature of Science

[00:44:05] Willingness to Use Different Methods

[00:48:05] Acknowledging the Role of Quantification

[00:50:27] Knowledge Hierarchies

[00:55:00] Mixed Methods for Global Issues

[00:57:00] Limits of AI: The Case of Medical Expertise

[00:58:52] AI as Complement to Expert Knowledge

[01:02:01] Cultural Obsession with Control & Convenience

[01:03:45] Social Media & Digital Divide

[01:07:20] Regaining Agency Through Politics

[01:12:30] Collective Action & Social Relationships

[01:15:00] Need for Political Engagement

[01:17:20] Contemporary Disillusionment

[01:19:40] Love as a Teacher

[01:22:20] Vulnerability & Human Experience

[01:25:50] Caring as Leverage for Engagement

PHIL_OS Project

Ethical Data Initiative (EDI)

(Book, Open Access) 

Data Shadows (Art-Science Film Collaboration)

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 Andrea in conversation with fellow cognitive scientist Mark Michael James, highlighting his journey from understanding patterns of being to shaping habits and realigning health. Mark shares his experiences from Ireland, his academic pursuits, and his present work at the Okinawa Institute of Science and Technology. This episode delves into synchronicity, embodied cognition, and the philosophies and practices of the arising 'school of way' of practice and philosophy which includes 'wayshaping' and 'waymaking' and pertains to a paper Mark has recently written with Mushfiqa Jamaluddin, Tom Froese, Aisha Belhadi, Anna Panagiotou, and Dave Snowden. It all ties back to practical applications in health, navigating complexity, and striving for a dynamic balance in life. Mark's personal stories and reflections make this a must-watch for anyone interested in cognitive science, philosophy, and the art of living well.

00:00 Introduction to Unexpected Contributions
00:35 Exploring the Concept of 'Craic'
00:56 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
01:02 Introducing Mark Michael James and His Work
02:23 Discussion on Synchronicity and Relevance Realization
06:47 Mark's Journey to Okinawa
12:39 Navigating Personal and Social Patterns
51:23 Health Challenges and Personal Stories
55:06 Sensory Irregularities and Scripts
56:21 Breaching Experiments and Sociological Insights
57:13 Cultural Patterns and the Irish Concept of 'The Crack'
01:03:26 Health, Habits, and Personal Transformation
01:08:05 Philosophical Reflections and Practical Applications
01:19:49 Wayshaping Framework and Multiscale Health
01:27:57 Personal Reflections and Future Directions

Wayshaping paper

Waymaking

OIST

Mark's website

Also, have a look at this book about Mindshaping by Michelle Maiese.

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TRAILER: Bringing care into public discourse alongside critical thinking.

Hello, everyone. In today's world, we're often pushed into choosing sides and thinking in absolutes. But what if there was another way? Or rather, what if there were many other ways? Welcome to to Love and Philosophy. This is a cumulative philosophy project where we practice kaleidoscopic thinking, moving beyond either/or scenarios to embrace the complexity of existence.

Andrea Hiott, together with other hosts and contributors, gathers philosophers, scientists, and people from all walks of life to explore the intricate connections between love, knowledge, and the patterns that shape our world. Every conversation is deeply researched and spoken from the heart, yet mostly unscripted. This approach allows us to engage in real dialogue, where ideas surprise us, and where it's okay to be messy. As long as we're moving towards what truly matters. Bringing care into public discourse alongside critical thinking.

We delve into the many layers, dimensions, and possibilities of cognition and consciousness. What is the purpose of the body? What does it mean to be sensual? What are the implications of all this life, space, and time around us? We're not only observing these aspects but also taking part in their creation.

Invitation for Contribution or send relevant work or ideas to
write to [email protected]

If any of these ideas resonate with you—thinking beyond dichotomy, planetary and constellatory thinking, or kaleidoscopic cognition—we want to hear from you! Do you have a conversation or idea from your life or work that you'd love to share? We're on a collective journey, exploring the world through the eyes of various beings around us, human and otherwise. 

If you know of any poems that relate to these themes, please send them our way. We warmly welcome poetry as a means of expression and connection.

Let's embrace the complexity and share our kaleidoscopic turnings.

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Jessica Böhme is a sustainability scientist, transformation researcher, and founder of the Institute for Practical Eco Philosophy. Jessica shares her journey of exploring the connection between inner transformation and outer change, and how this quest has influenced her personal and professional life. Andrea and Jessica delve into the concept of living philosophically, the role of relational philosophies, and how they impact sustainability. They also discuss the challenges Jessica faced in academia, the significance of personal practices, and her innovative idea of 'philosophy gyms' aimed at integrating philosophy into everyday life for better ecological and business practices in the engineering world. Jessica also talks about her unique lifestyle choices, her artwork, and the broader implications of living a thoughtful, engaged life.

00:00 Introduction to Inner and Outer Change
00:29 Philosophy as a Way of Life
01:59 Welcome to Love and Philosophy
02:04 Introducing Jessica Böhme
02:37 Exploring Relational Philosophy
03:28 Philosophy Gyms and Ecological Love
04:21 The Knowledge-Action Gap
06:50 Jessica's Academic Journey
09:42 Inner Transformation and Sustainability
10:01 Mechanistic vs. Relational Worldview
12:34 Challenges in Sustainability Science
13:39 The Complexity of Relational Thinking
32:05 Philosophy as a Living Process
37:13 The Paradox of Science and Health
38:13 Personal and Planetary Health
39:43 Patterns in Health and Consumption
40:47 The Role of Awareness and Choice
42:28 Practical Eco Philosophy
44:04 Micro Habits and Daily Practices
48:34 Living Philosophically
59:44 The Concept of Wild
01:01:04 Art and Expression
01:04:51 Philosophy Gyms and Experiments
01:08:59 Final Thoughts and Farewell

Jessica's Blog

Institute for Practical ekoPhilosophy

Pierre Hadot: Philosophy as a Way of Life

Karen Barad

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The line between a psychotic break and success is not quite as clear as it once was, nor is the question of what medication, therapy, or practice is best, or in what amount. This conversation tries to unpack that liminal space with a man who knows it well and has been able to stay connected to the love in it.

In this episode of Love and Philosophy, Andrea engages in an in-depth conversation with Tom Morgan, exploring the complexities of love, philosophy, and personal transformation. They discuss the challenging balance between high-functioning careers and spiritual pursuits, the misconceptions around self-sacrifice and service, and the importance of community in navigating life transitions. Tom shares his personal journey from a high-stress finance career through an awakening experience, detailing his struggles with mental health, the role of psychiatric medication, and the lessons he's learned about integrating holistic and scientific perspectives. This episode delves into the nuanced intersections of mental health, personal growth, and the pursuit of meaning, offering invaluable insights for anyone on a similar path.

00:00 Introduction to Love and Philosophy
00:06 Exploring the Concept of Love
01:06 Introducing Tom Morgan
01:57 Tom's Journey from Finance to Philosophy
03:28 Balancing Wealth and Well-being
05:42 The Intersection of Science and Spirituality
08:28 Tom's Personal Awakening
13:54 Navigating the Hero's Journey
20:10 Challenges of Spiritual Integration
23:10 Holding the Tension Between Worlds
43:54 The Choice to Change
45:38 The Struggle with Identity and Career
47:07 Understanding Self-Sacrifice vs. Service
47:46 The Paradox of Complexity
51:01 The Role of Ketamine and Mental Health
58:56 Integrating Spiritual and Physical Health
01:06:45 The Importance of Community Support
01:09:58 Navigating High-Functioning Anxiety
01:17:23 Embracing Love and Contribution
01:22:50 The Future of Consciousness and Society

Professional Qalifications & Photo Ref (Wall Street, philosophy degree from Oxford, etc.)

The Leading Edge

Tom's Substack

Andrea's Substack

Hero's Journey

Jill Bolte Taylor

Victor Frankl — 'What is to give light must endure burning.'

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